Windows 7 OEM TOS and DIY

[zolton33]

I think it would be a good idea to let people know that the tos for windows 7 oem is very much against do it yourself builds. By their new standard if you install an oem version of windows you can not upgrade your motherboard and processor and use your windows 7.

http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/licensing_faq.aspx

And it states Q. Can a PC with an OEM Windows operating system have its motherboard upgraded and keep the same license? What if it was replaced because it was defective?
A. Generally, an end user can upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on a computer—except the motherboard—and still retain the license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created. Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred to the new computer, and the license of new operating system software is required. If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do not need to acquire a new operating system license for the PC as long as the replacement motherboard is the same make/model or the same manufacturer's replacement/equivalent, as defined by the manufacturer's warranty.

The reason for this licensing rule primarily relates to the End User Software License Terms and the support of the software covered by that End User Software License Terms. The End User Software License Terms is a set of usage rights granted to the end user by the PC manufacturer and relates only to rights for that software as installed on that particular PC. The system builder is required to support the software on the original PC. Understanding that end users, over time, upgrade their PCs with different components, Microsoft needed to have one base component "left standing" that would still define the original PC. Since the motherboard contains the CPU and is the "heart and soul" of the PC, when the motherboard is replaced (for reasons other than defect) a new PC is essentially created. The original system builder did not manufacture this new PC, and therefore cannot be expected to support it.

As such you would need a full version of windows 7 to be able to upgrade major components. So it does no good to reccomend windows 7 oem to do it yourself pc builders. Its something every one should know before doing a self build. OEM is cheaper but if you upgrade you need tio buy a new oem version for each major upgrade and you would be ahead to buy the full version now as its cheaper if you have to replace defective parts or to upgrade.

http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/licensing_for_hobbyists.aspx

They also call us hobbyists. >_<

 

[tecmo34]

This topic has been moved from the section Site Feedback to section Windows 7 by Tecmo34

 

[Brett928S2]

Hi

EXCELLENT ...As an OEM builder, it annoys me a lot that DIY builders use an OEM licence, but to be honest it annoys me even more that suppliers are SELLING users OEM licences....and breaking the law....

All the best Brett

 

[biscuitasylum]

Imagine if the Automobile industry did terms like this with their engines. lol

 

[JDFan]

Hi

EXCELLENT ...As an OEM builder, it annoys me a lot that DIY builders use an OEM licence, but to be honest it annoys me even more that suppliers are SELLING users OEM licences....and breaking the law....

All the best Brett

The Suppliers are not breaking any laws as long as they are selling the oEM package unopened so that the end user is the one breaking the seal and hence agreeing to be bound to the licensing agreement on the package !! -- This is why retailers are able to sell the OEM versions and are not being sued by MS since it is not their responsibility to determine if the end user that orders the OEM version is indeed another system builder or an end user and MS allows unopened OEM packages to be sold by them - From the same article linked above referring to the license terms :

What are the different ways in which Microsoft OEM System Builder Windows licenses can be distributed?

A. The current OEM System Builder License allows system builders to distribute Windows desktop operating system licenses in the following ways: Preinstalled on a new PC and resold to a third party.

Unopened OEM System Builder packs (1-, 3-, or 30-packs) can be distributed to other system builders. Note that they must remain unopened so the receiving system builder can accept and be bound by the break-the-seal license agreement affixed to the pack. They should not be distributed to end users.

So it is not the retailer at fault it is the end user if they use the OEM version in a manner it was not designed to be used for.

 

[biscuitasylum]

The Suppliers are not breaking any laws as long as they are selling the oEM package unopened so that the end user is the one breaking the seal and hence agreeing to be bound to the licensing agreement on the package !! -- This is why retailers are able to sell the OEM versions and are not being sued by MS since it is not their responsibility to determine if the end user that orders the OEM version is indeed another system builder or an end user and MS allows unopened OEM packages to be sold by them - From the same article linked above referring to the license terms :

What are the different ways in which Microsoft OEM System Builder Windows licenses can be distributed?

A. The current OEM System Builder License allows system builders to distribute Windows desktop operating system licenses in the following ways: Preinstalled on a new PC and resold to a third party.

Unopened OEM System Builder packs (1-, 3-, or 30-packs) can be distributed to other system builders. Note that they must remain unopened so the receiving system builder can accept and be bound by the break-the-seal license agreement affixed to the pack. They should not be distributed to end users.

So it is not the retailer at fault it is the end user if they use the OEM version in a manner it was not designed to be used for.

Interesting, the last two HP I purchased already had system software installed... and in order for me to have disks I had to recreate them using an application they supplied.

Is this a different style of OEM licensing?

scratch that... I didnt see the whole story.

 

[JDFan]

Interesting, the last two HP I purchased already had system software installed... and in order for me to have disks I had to recreate them using an application they supplied.

Is this a different style of OEM licensing?

No -- the OEM is supposed to only sell the system with the OS installed using the OPK (OEM Preinstallation Kit) so HP is doing it properly --- What we are talking about is the retail outlets that sell OEM products to third parties Microsoft allows them to sell the OEM packaging as long as they do not break the seal on the packaging since according to them breaking the seal is agreeing to be bound by the Terms printed on the packaging and as long as a retailer is selling it as a sealed package this is completely within Microsofts policies and is not breaking any laws --- If someone purchases an OEM version and uses it against the terms on the package is up to them and has nothing to do with the retailer (they followed MS's policies and are also doing things the way they should be -- MS no longer requires them to verify that the OEM package will be used in accordance to MS's policies only that it be sold as a sealed package.)

 

[zolton33]

I find it funny that i posted this in http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-9-34.html And a moderator did not read it and moved it here >_< Every one who is building a pc themselves for their own personal use should know about this. I build my own pc's as i like knowing whats in it and its capabilities are as what i can use to upgrade it.

And like others i used oem versions as lets face it if you had the choice between paying 100.00 or 200.00 for the same program which would you choose? And with this move they really have slapped do it yourself builders in the face. Those who build their own pc's generally take care of all of their own pcs and never used pre made pcs and they never generally went to pc repair shops.

Microsoft kills each new version of windows eventually forcing people to repeatedly upgrade to THEIR new operating system basically charging you to enter the building and charging you when you are leaving. I wonder if people would react the same way if every few years the electric company put out new wires and those that did not pay to use the new lines had their power shut off on them leaving them very few if any options if they wanted to continue to have electricity.

They were still making money from the oem versions that the do it yourself builders were buying. But because they were making only 100.00 instead of the 200.00 they felt they should have earned they changed their policy. The sad part is that most will not learn of this until they go to do major upgrades to their systems. But by then they would be forced to either buy another oem version or finally buy the full version and in so doing getting another 100.00 to 200.00 profit.

This really should be explained more in the description of the oem versions to at least let people know. A basic "If you buy this then upgrade your system you will need to buy another at each upgrade or buy the full version once" I'm betting that they would really lose their profits quick from the oem versions as people would then stop buying them all together. And i am also guessing that many outlet places and such that sell oem versions would be quite upset at the loss of profits from it as well being stuck with stock that is near impossible to move.

As a consumer i'm not only upset that this is not clear until you read the tos while installing it. But i'm also upset about their over all shady way apon which they are doing it. What are you gonna do? You click no the software is useless and its not like you can take back software thats opened if you say yes then you are agreeing that you will never upgrade your system. >_<

 

[zolton33]

I know the electric company analogy is not the best way to put it. As you pay a monthly bill to keep the power. But if every few years they charged you to install new lines to continue your service through them or they would stop your service all together would be a much better one.

 

[JDFan]

As a consumer i'm not only upset that this is not clear until you read the tos while installing it. But i'm also upset about their over all shady way apon which they are doing it. What are you gonna do? You click no the software is useless and its not like you can take back software thats opened if you say yes then you are agreeing that you will never upgrade your system. >_<

Actually when you purchase an OEM version it is written onto the outside of the sealed packaging so if you do not agree to the terms you can return it for a refund as long as you do not open the package.

While I agree that they should make the licensing details more precise -- I can completely understand the reasoning behind the OEM license being tied to the MOBO that it is first installed on because the OEM license was designed to be sold by a third party company to the end user and that third party company is supposed to be the one providing any needed support to the end user.

So MS had to tie the license to that system hardware in some manner otherwise end users would be using it on new systems and still trying to get either the third party company or MS to provide support -- and MS sold the OEM version at a discount because they are saving by not having to provide support, yet the OEM should not be responsible for supporting that software after it is no longer being used on their hardware so the license had to be somehow tied to the hardware it was purchased with.

 

[biscuitasylum]

I know the electric company analogy is not the best way to put it. As you pay a monthly bill to keep the power. But if every few years they charged you to install new lines to continue your service through them or they would stop your service all together would be a much better one.

Yeah, thats why I made the comment earlier in regards to the automobile industry. lol, imagine if they did this with engine blocks. lol


I was thinking about this even further... I'm a semi-retired Touring Professional and it hit me... Imagine if, let's say JBL put licenses on their crossovers inside their boxes and the minute you changed their drivers to, lets say an Eminence driver... the crossover would short out. lol It would kill our industry.


From my understanding... you have so many "mother board" changes before you're forced into purchasing another new Operating system. Which isnt bad. If you're able to afford to build yourself 12 computers in a year... you surely can afford to buy some operating systems.

 

[biscuitasylum]

No -- the OEM is supposed to only sell the system with the OS installed using the OPK (OEM Preinstallation Kit) so HP is doing it properly --- What we are talking about is the retail outlets that sell OEM products to third parties Microsoft allows them to sell the OEM packaging as long as they do not break the seal on the packaging since according to them breaking the seal is agreeing to be bound by the Terms printed on the packaging and as long as a retailer is selling it as a sealed package this is completely within Microsofts policies and is not breaking any laws --- If someone purchases an OEM version and uses it against the terms on the package is up to them and has nothing to do with the retailer (they followed MS's policies and are also doing things the way they should be -- MS no longer requires them to verify that the OEM package will be used in accordance to MS's policies only that it be sold as a sealed package.)

Okay, gotcha... I tell ya... Software licensing is a whole lot more complicated than Music Copyrighting.

 

[zolton33]

Yeah, thats why I made the comment earlier in regards to the automobile industry. lol, imagine if they did this with engine blocks. lol


I was thinking about this even further... I'm a semi-retired Touring Professional and it hit me... Imagine if, let's say JBL put licenses on their crossovers inside their boxes and the minute you changed their drivers to, lets say an Eminence driver... the crossover would short out. lol It would kill our industry.


From my understanding... you have so many "mother board" changes before you're forced into purchasing another new Operating system. Which isnt bad. If you're able to afford to build yourself 12 computers in a year... you surely can afford to buy some operating systems.

No read carefully if you change the mother board 1 time even if its defective to any other make and model that was in it before your license is null and void and you need a new oem. And an oem version plus building your own pc was the cheapest and most viable option to get the pc and the components you want in and with it. Those who build pc's and sell them for a profit are happy as this makes it much less cheaper and viable to build your own using an oem version.

 

[zolton33]

Actually when you purchase an OEM version it is written onto the outside of the sealed packaging so if you do not agree to the terms you can return it for a refund as long as you do not open the package.

While I agree that they should make the licensing details more precise -- I can completely understand the reasoning behind the OEM license being tied to the MOBO that it is first installed on because the OEM license was designed to be sold by a third party company to the end user and that third party company is supposed to be the one providing any needed support to the end user.

So MS had to tie the license to that system hardware in some manner otherwise end users would be using it on new systems and still trying to get either the third party company or MS to provide support -- and MS sold the OEM version at a discount because they are saving by not having to provide support, yet the OEM should not be responsible for supporting that software after it is no longer being used on their hardware so the license had to be somehow tied to the hardware it was purchased with.

It been a much better viable option to tie it to the person who purchased the software and who is using it. Regardless of if you get a pc from a builder or from a big name company you are still sent to microsoft for the os problems. This is nothing more then a way for microsoft to try to sqeeze every little penny out of you that they can. Read the sticky at the top http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/23305-63-windows-versions-explained

And i quote [Update: As a consumer, you can buy an OEM System Builder copy of Windows from countless online shopping outlets. Technically, you're not supposed to use those copies unless you're building a PC for resale to a third party. But Microsoft's own employees and retail partners, and even its own "decision engine," Bing, aren't so clear on the rules. For a detailed discussion, see Is it OK to use OEM Windows on your own PC? Even Microsoft's not sure.]

Now keep in mind i do not think the sticky at the top has visited the microsoft oem version website and read THEIR new terms concerning the oem versions.

 

[biscuitasylum]

No read carefully if you change the mother board 1 time even if its defective to any other make and model that was in it before your license is null and void and you need a new oem. And an oem version plus building your own pc was the cheapest and most viable option to get the pc and the components you want in and with it. Those who build pc's and sell them for a profit are happy as this makes it much less cheaper and viable to build your own using an oem version.

Is this strictly for OEM? I have a friend whoes switched his motherboard 3 times in his computer, however he built it himself. Hes had to recert the software everytime and they just gave him a new code. He was told he could do it 3 or 4 times.

 

[JDFan]

Regardless of if you get a pc from a builder or from a big name company you are still sent to microsoft for the os problems.

Actually if you have an OEM version and call MS they will refer you to the OEM to answer any questions or if you can no longer get support from the OEM they will only provide support if you pay a consultation fee (used to be about $80 not sure what it is currently)

Is this strictly for OEM? I have a friend whoes switched his motherboard 3 times in his computer, however he built it himself. Hes had to recert the software everytime and they just gave him a new code. He was told he could do it 3 or 4 times.

Correct -- for OEM versions the license is tied to the MOBO it is initially installed on -- once that MOBO is no longer used the license is no longer valid ( but MS is usually flexible and if you call and ask they will usually give you a new code even though their TOS does not require it - if you have not already reused the OEM version on other systems more than a couple times) -- THe full retail license can be reused an unlimited number of times with any combination of hardware as long as it is only in use on a single system (once you reinstall to a new system the old license is invalid) but once it has been used more than a few times you usually have to call for activation so they can ensure you are not using it on more than one system at a time.

 

[zolton33]

This is the oem version http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116986

This is the full version http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116716

A difference of about 90 bucks your friend probably has the full version with it you can then uninstall from an old pc and reinstall into a new one.

 

[zolton33]

Actually if you have an OEM version and call MS they will refer you to the OEM to answer any questions or if you can no longer get support from the OEM they will only provide support if you pay a consultation fee (used to be about $80 not sure what it is currently)

Ok then what do you call their website? I do not know of any one who ever calls the help line. And unless they check your version by the key you use to activate it they do not know if you are oem or full version. Lets face the facts microsofts support is a joke at its best most of the time as they generally put you on hold for long hours as those who man the phones generally don't know dos from ram >_<

 

[biscuitasylum]

This is the oem version http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116986

This is the full version http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116716

A difference of about 90 bucks your friend probably has the full version with it you can then uninstall from an old pc and reinstall into a new one.

Okay... cool.

 

[JDFan]

Ok then what do you call their website? I do not know of any one who ever calls the help line. And unless they check your version by the key you use to activate it they do not know if you are oem or full version. Lets face the facts microsofts support is a joke at its best most of the time as they generally put you on hold for long hours as those who man the phones generally don't know dos from ram >_<

Agreed -- which is also why I use the OEM version myself for systems I build for myself and family members even though technically it is against their TOS since I provide my own support or find support on communities like this one before I would ever call MS for support.

 

[zolton33]

Q. What is Microsoft doing to clarify these terms to resellers and end-users?
A. In addition to announcing this clarification to the System Builder channel, Microsoft is working with online retailers to post language on their websites explaining the licensing rules for OEM System Builder channel software.

If this is true why is it not listed as so on newegg? (i now looked under details and it does say so but unless you click the deatails you would never know it)

Yet tigerdirect lists it at the very bottom of the page where most will never see it.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5213931&CatId=4622

Now how do they handle this with the sytem builders? If they must replace the systems motherboard for a customer does that mean they need to pay another 100.00 bucks on top of the price of the new motherboard to fix a system on their waranty? So over 200.00 bucks to repair a pc basically and thats not including labor or a new processor if it died with the motherboard? I do not see how pc builders for profit would be happy with that as you can buy a low end pc for the price of one repair.

 

[biscuitasylum]

Agreed -- which is also why I use the OEM version myself for systems I build for myself and family members even though technically it is against their TOS since I provide my own support or find support on communities like this one before I would ever call MS for support.

interesting. if this is the case, hope we're not treading bad territory here (apologies if we are), but lets say you build yourself a new computer... do you just get a new OEM OS?

The reason Im so curious about this, Im R&Ding a new build right now, as its been a while since Ive built one. This happens to be one of my biggest dilemmas, as theyve changed the way their TOS works since I built last time. Which has been several years for me.

Any issues I ever have with an OS, I just come online to find answers or trouble shoot myself. I never call Microsoft or Apple.

I also use Apple Boxes.

 

[zolton33]

Agreed -- which is also why I use the OEM version myself for systems I build for myself and family members even though technically it is against their TOS since I provide my own support or find support on communities like this one before I would ever call MS for support.

But what is the personal pc builder to do if they plainly say no? What you are saying is the best case scenario. And they are under no obligation to allow you to reinstall it on a new system.

 

[biscuitasylum]

So if I bought this instead of full version... I could install it on my new build, but i would have to provide my own support and I couldnt upgrade the mother board again unless I actually purchased another OEM?

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details_ss.asp?EdpNo=5213931&CatId=4622&SRCCODE=LINKSHARE&cm_mmc_o=-ddCjC1bELltzywCjC-d2CjCdwwp&AffiliateID=je6NUbpObpQ-jhxDEVEBCMqa7yGBAHwS8w



Am I getting that OEM is basically a "deal with your own OS problems" while the full is "call MS if you have OS problems?"

Im trying to follow along with you two... forgive me if im all over the place... im done replying singularly ... its getting confusing for my oldness. lol

 

[JDFan]

interesting. if this is the case, hope we're not treading bad territory here (apologies if we are), but lets say you build yourself a new computer... do you just get a new OEM OS?

The reason Im so curious about this, Im R&Ding a new build right now, as its been a while since Ive built one. This happens to be one of my biggest dilemmas, as theyve changed the way their TOS works since I built last time. Which has been several years for me.

Any issues I ever have with an OS, I just come online to find answers or trouble shoot myself. I never call Microsoft or Apple.

I also use Apple Boxes.

Normally since I use AMD MOBOs by the time it is time to retire a MOBO due to the socket type or DDR version supported etc. it is also time to change the OS (ie. XP to Vista - Vista to Win7 - Win7 to Win8 ) anyway so would then buy a new OEM version of the new OS -- Though I have in the past reused an OEM version for a new build and was able to reactivate using the computer activation by just entering the product key and entering the response code it gave me ( Like I said MS is usually fairly flexible even though their TOS does not mandate it -- they are more concerned with Pirate versions that are using the same key on thousands or hundreds of thousands of systems than they are with a person that purchases an OEM version and wants to reuse it on a second system or someone using an OEM version on a system they built instead of buying it preinstalled by a third party builder.)