Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

What will Pentax do next?

Last response: in Digital Camera
Share
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 4:49:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I know that I'm asking for speculative and subjective opinions, but I would
appreciate some input on my dilemma

I'm currently happily using an *istD, and have half a dozen reasonable
lenses.

The *istD still seems (to me) to be far and away the best Pentax dslr, the
DS was tolerable - but the DL (with its 'digital filters') is nothing short
of a 'Fun-Cam'.

But the istD is now discontinued (as is the DS) and in very short supply -
Pentax UK don't have a single one left.

I have the chance to buy a new *istD body for £450, and there is my
dilemma - do I buy an obsolete (although very well made and extremely
satisfactory) camera, thereby safeguarding my lens investment, or do I wait
and hope that Pentax will bring out another 'real' dslr?

I've read all the speculation about an 8mp, 10mp, 12,mp (take your pick) ,
anti-shake replacement for the *istD - but that's ALL it is, speculation.

Part of me desperately wants to believe that Pentax will shortly announce
such a model, and part of me thinks that, given their dire economic
situation, Pentax might not even be making digital cameras this time next
year.

If I let this body go I certainly won't finds another new one if I need it.
If I buy it and Pentax suddenly announce a new high specification camera I
will have bought the second *istD in vain - I know I could sell it - but the
price would have to be low if a new all singing-all-dancing model was about
to ship.

I have to admit to feeling a bit pessimistic about the future of Pentax -
their three dslr's have been a dismal progression downwards in terms of
features and quality. No dealer I've spoken to rates their chances of
survival very highly- but who knows?

So, what would you do? - chance a new body announcement?, buy the *istD and
know I've got a replacement if/when necessary?, or sell up and go for a
surer bet like Canon?

Thanks for your input.

More about : pentax

Anonymous
August 14, 2005 4:49:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I find it funny that you acknowledge that you are asking for
speculation, and then later discard information about a future 8, 10, 12
mp anti-shake replacement because it is just speculation...

Sorry that I have nothing to add other than that, just thought it was odd.

Polly Pentax wrote:
> I know that I'm asking for speculative and subjective opinions, but I would
> appreciate some input on my dilemma
>
> I'm currently happily using an *istD, and have half a dozen reasonable
> lenses.
>
> The *istD still seems (to me) to be far and away the best Pentax dslr, the
> DS was tolerable - but the DL (with its 'digital filters') is nothing short
> of a 'Fun-Cam'.
>
> But the istD is now discontinued (as is the DS) and in very short supply -
> Pentax UK don't have a single one left.
>
> I have the chance to buy a new *istD body for £450, and there is my
> dilemma - do I buy an obsolete (although very well made and extremely
> satisfactory) camera, thereby safeguarding my lens investment, or do I wait
> and hope that Pentax will bring out another 'real' dslr?
>
> I've read all the speculation about an 8mp, 10mp, 12,mp (take your pick) ,
> anti-shake replacement for the *istD - but that's ALL it is, speculation.
>
> Part of me desperately wants to believe that Pentax will shortly announce
> such a model, and part of me thinks that, given their dire economic
> situation, Pentax might not even be making digital cameras this time next
> year.
>
> If I let this body go I certainly won't finds another new one if I need it.
> If I buy it and Pentax suddenly announce a new high specification camera I
> will have bought the second *istD in vain - I know I could sell it - but the
> price would have to be low if a new all singing-all-dancing model was about
> to ship.
>
> I have to admit to feeling a bit pessimistic about the future of Pentax -
> their three dslr's have been a dismal progression downwards in terms of
> features and quality. No dealer I've spoken to rates their chances of
> survival very highly- but who knows?
>
> So, what would you do? - chance a new body announcement?, buy the *istD and
> know I've got a replacement if/when necessary?, or sell up and go for a
> surer bet like Canon?
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
>
>
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 4:49:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I had a couple Mamiya NC1000 film bodies with several lenses years ago.
They were announced with great enthusiasm and fanfare. Shortly
thereafter, Mamiya abandoned the 35mm SLR market. They did however,
support them for a few years and then Ritz bought the repair business
from them, so I was able to keep shooting for quite some time with
them. Got a lot of good pictures and I loved the cameras, so it didn't
really matter to me whether Mamiya ever built another SLR or not. In
fact, I still have them. Don't know if either of them still works, but
they did what I bought them for and that's all I really cared about.
Related resources
August 14, 2005 4:49:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Spring PMA, I've been told Pentax will launch two new dSLR cameras, and
several lenses. I asked my contact if it was a *ist D replacement but he
couldn't say due to his NDA. Vibration reduction is being tested, but could
answer with more details. If I look at what Sony sensors are around 8.5, 10
and 12 mp do exist. The current 12 is exclusive to Nikon, but that doesn't
mean a second generation wouldn't be available to Pentax and Minolta. The
step from 6.1 to 8 is a small step, so expect a bigger step. I have played
around with the DL when I was speaking to my contact, and it's a pretty good
camera for the price point.

"Nicholas Wittebol" <nicholas.wittebol@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:MMSdneKUj5LTEWPfRVn-3w@rogers.com...
>I find it funny that you acknowledge that you are asking for speculation,
>and then later discard information about a future 8, 10, 12 mp anti-shake
>replacement because it is just speculation...
>
> Sorry that I have nothing to add other than that, just thought it was odd.
>
> Polly Pentax wrote:
>> I know that I'm asking for speculative and subjective opinions, but I
>> would appreciate some input on my dilemma
>>
>> I'm currently happily using an *istD, and have half a dozen reasonable
>> lenses.
>>
>> The *istD still seems (to me) to be far and away the best Pentax dslr,
>> the DS was tolerable - but the DL (with its 'digital filters') is nothing
>> short of a 'Fun-Cam'.
>>
>> But the istD is now discontinued (as is the DS) and in very short
>> supply - Pentax UK don't have a single one left.
>>
>> I have the chance to buy a new *istD body for £450, and there is my
>> dilemma - do I buy an obsolete (although very well made and extremely
>> satisfactory) camera, thereby safeguarding my lens investment, or do I
>> wait and hope that Pentax will bring out another 'real' dslr?
>>
>> I've read all the speculation about an 8mp, 10mp, 12,mp (take your pick)
>> , anti-shake replacement for the *istD - but that's ALL it is,
>> speculation.
>>
>> Part of me desperately wants to believe that Pentax will shortly announce
>> such a model, and part of me thinks that, given their dire economic
>> situation, Pentax might not even be making digital cameras this time next
>> year.
>>
>> If I let this body go I certainly won't finds another new one if I need
>> it. If I buy it and Pentax suddenly announce a new high specification
>> camera I will have bought the second *istD in vain - I know I could sell
>> it - but the price would have to be low if a new all singing-all-dancing
>> model was about to ship.
>>
>> I have to admit to feeling a bit pessimistic about the future of Pentax -
>> their three dslr's have been a dismal progression downwards in terms of
>> features and quality. No dealer I've spoken to rates their chances of
>> survival very highly- but who knows?
>>
>> So, what would you do? - chance a new body announcement?, buy the *istD
>> and know I've got a replacement if/when necessary?, or sell up and go for
>> a surer bet like Canon?
>>
>> Thanks for your input.
>>
>>
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 4:49:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Nicholas Wittebol wrote:
> I find it funny that you acknowledge that you are asking for
> speculation, and then later discard information about a future 8, 10, 12
> mp anti-shake replacement because it is just speculation...

What do you expect? He owns an Official Camera of the Internet[tm]. :) 

--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 4:51:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Release a medium format based digital SLR based on their autofocus 645
camera.
John
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 5:26:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Nicholas Wittebol" <nicholas.wittebol@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:MMSdneKUj5LTEWPfRVn-3w@rogers.com...
>I find it funny that you acknowledge that you are asking for speculation,
>and then later discard information about a future 8, 10, 12 mp anti-shake
>replacement because it is just speculation...



Point taken - but I can't say that it's been much help

I don't expect anyone to know the inner workings of Pentax Corporation, I
was just asking what *others* would do if they faced the same dilemma.
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 5:30:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Polly Pentax" <petax@polly.net> wrote:

>I know that I'm asking for speculative and subjective opinions, but I would
>appreciate some input on my dilemma
>
>I'm currently happily using an *istD, and have half a dozen reasonable
>lenses.
>
>The *istD still seems (to me) to be far and away the best Pentax dslr, the
>DS was tolerable - but the DL (with its 'digital filters') is nothing short
>of a 'Fun-Cam'.
>
>But the istD is now discontinued (as is the DS) and in very short supply -
>Pentax UK don't have a single one left.
>
>I have the chance to buy a new *istD body for £450, and there is my
>dilemma - do I buy an obsolete (although very well made and extremely
>satisfactory) camera, thereby safeguarding my lens investment, or do I wait
>and hope that Pentax will bring out another 'real' dslr?
>
>I've read all the speculation about an 8mp, 10mp, 12,mp (take your pick) ,
>anti-shake replacement for the *istD - but that's ALL it is, speculation.
>
>Part of me desperately wants to believe that Pentax will shortly announce
>such a model, and part of me thinks that, given their dire economic
>situation, Pentax might not even be making digital cameras this time next
>year.
>
>If I let this body go I certainly won't finds another new one if I need it.
>If I buy it and Pentax suddenly announce a new high specification camera I
>will have bought the second *istD in vain - I know I could sell it - but the
>price would have to be low if a new all singing-all-dancing model was about
>to ship.
>
>I have to admit to feeling a bit pessimistic about the future of Pentax -
>their three dslr's have been a dismal progression downwards in terms of
>features and quality. No dealer I've spoken to rates their chances of
>survival very highly- but who knows?
>
>So, what would you do? - chance a new body announcement?, buy the *istD and
>know I've got a replacement if/when necessary?, or sell up and go for a
>surer bet like Canon?


No matter which you buy, there will always be something better around
the corner. If that worries you, just don't buy a DSLR. Ever.

The *ist D for £450 is good value. I paid £21 less for mine, but I
have also seen them advertised at £579 in Jessops. So £450 is good.

If you buy a Canon DSLR, the situation is exactly the same.
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 5:38:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

About the time the DS was released, some high-up at Pentax
was asked about future plans. While he didn't lay out too
much in great detail (although he did show the lens road map)
he suggested that the next DSLR would be an even cheaper
model (which we've now seen - the DL). Then would come a
digital medium format body, which is already announced.

After that (probably around the PMA 2006 timeframe) would
be a follow-on model for the *ist-D. This will still use
an APS-C sized sensor. Apart from that not much is known.
Obviously it will need to be enough better than the *ist-D
to be tempting as an upgrade. I expect 10-12MP, a faster
and bigger buffer, and a 2.5" LCD. I also expect it to
keep the two control wheels of the D. Some people expect
to see the return of the aperture simulator coupling, but
I'm not one of them. I also expect to see a battery grip
with vertical shutter release - maybe it would even share
the BG-1 that the D uses.

All speculation, but I don't expect to be too wide of the mark.
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 5:54:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Darrell" <spam@this.eh> wrote in message
news:noudnSh_rZaQDWPfRVn-jw@rogers.com...
> Spring PMA, I've been told Pentax will launch two new dSLR cameras, and
> several lenses. I asked my contact if it was a *ist D replacement but he
> couldn't say due to his NDA. Vibration reduction is being tested, but
> could answer with more details. If I look at what Sony sensors are around
> 8.5, 10 and 12 mp do exist. The current 12 is exclusive to Nikon, but that
> doesn't mean a second generation wouldn't be available to Pentax and
> Minolta. The step from 6.1 to 8 is a small step, so expect a bigger step.
> I have played around with the DL when I was speaking to my contact, and
> it's a pretty good camera for the price point.


I hope you're right about the new camera - and I certainly agree that Pentax
would almost certainly go for a larger sensor than 8mp, IF they do bother
with an *istD mk 2

I don't know what price point the DL is at in Canada - but in the UK it sits
very uncomfortably next to the Nikon D50, and the D50 seems a vastly better
camera in every respect.

Pentax have (imho) made a serious error in dumbing down to DL level. It
just doesn't compete with anything that the competition have, not even price
(in the UK)

I like Pentax - but I'd be being dishonest if I didn't admit that there is
no reason under the sun for anyone to buy a new current Pentax dslr unless
they already have some good Pentax lenses - and the people who do have a
decent collection of lenses are serious film buffs, and are not likely to
swap to a glorified 'prosumer' model like the DL

For those who have no investment in Pentax glass, why even think about the
DL? - Nikon and Cannon offer better specced models at similar (or the same)
price.

All of this adds to the remorseless downwards pressure on Pentax
profitability, and they will (again, imho) have to come up with something
pretty spectacular to escape the spiral.

OTOH, I'm notoriously unlucky (probably something to do with being cursed by
a Gypsy because I refused to have my driveway resurfaced) and if I buy the
last *istD body Pentax will undoubtedly announce a new top-line dslr the
very next day.

In fact, thinking about it, the solution for every Pentax owner who is
currently waiting for such an announcement, is to send me small donations to
buy me my new *istD body, whereupon the long awaited news from Pentax will
immediately follow.

If I decide to wait myself, of course, the Gypsy curse will ensure that
Pentax stop making cameras altogether, and no-one will ever have a new
Pentax dslr again.

Shall we say One $/£ each?
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 6:08:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Tony Polson" <tp@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:rt3tf15c940f40dj6l5naq9t814307uf6g@4ax.com...
> "Polly Pentax" <petax@polly.net> wrote:
>
>>I know that I'm asking for speculative and subjective opinions, but I
>>would
>>appreciate some input on my dilemma
>>
>>I'm currently happily using an *istD, and have half a dozen reasonable
>>lenses.
>>
>>The *istD still seems (to me) to be far and away the best Pentax dslr, the
>>DS was tolerable - but the DL (with its 'digital filters') is nothing
>>short
>>of a 'Fun-Cam'.
>>
>>But the istD is now discontinued (as is the DS) and in very short supply -
>>Pentax UK don't have a single one left.
>>
>>I have the chance to buy a new *istD body for £450, and there is my
>>dilemma - do I buy an obsolete (although very well made and extremely
>>satisfactory) camera, thereby safeguarding my lens investment, or do I
>>wait
>>and hope that Pentax will bring out another 'real' dslr?
>>
>>I've read all the speculation about an 8mp, 10mp, 12,mp (take your pick) ,
>>anti-shake replacement for the *istD - but that's ALL it is, speculation.
>>
>>Part of me desperately wants to believe that Pentax will shortly announce
>>such a model, and part of me thinks that, given their dire economic
>>situation, Pentax might not even be making digital cameras this time next
>>year.
>>
>>If I let this body go I certainly won't finds another new one if I need
>>it.
>>If I buy it and Pentax suddenly announce a new high specification camera I
>>will have bought the second *istD in vain - I know I could sell it - but
>>the
>>price would have to be low if a new all singing-all-dancing model was
>>about
>>to ship.
>>
>>I have to admit to feeling a bit pessimistic about the future of Pentax -
>>their three dslr's have been a dismal progression downwards in terms of
>>features and quality. No dealer I've spoken to rates their chances of
>>survival very highly- but who knows?
>>
>>So, what would you do? - chance a new body announcement?, buy the *istD
>>and
>>know I've got a replacement if/when necessary?, or sell up and go for a
>>surer bet like Canon?
>
>
> No matter which you buy, there will always be something better around
> the corner. If that worries you, just don't buy a DSLR. Ever.
>
> The *ist D for £450 is good value. I paid £21 less for mine, but I
> have also seen them advertised at £579 in Jessops. So £450 is good.
>
> If you buy a Canon DSLR, the situation is exactly the same.


Hi, Tony.

I think that the difference with Canon is that you can be almost 100%
certain that they will still be around in a couple of years, and will have
good upgrade models available to purchase.

Whether the same is true for Pentax must be debatable, given their current
position.

The D is available at Park Cameras for £600 - but they only have a few.
No-one else that I know of (apart from this single one at £450) has them in
stock at all, and Pentax UK also have no stocks left. So, it's buy now, or
almost certainly do without in the future - UNLESS Pentax come up with a
replacement.

I also take Kitt's point that, if it's good enough, it doesn't matter
whether any new bodies are forthcoming - except for the fact that I'll be
reluctant to add expensive lenses without a clear upgrade path.

Will Pentax keep tolerating losses on their digital imaging division?,
that's the question. In fact, 'will' the promised Medium Format model,
mentioned by John, actually materialise?

I have to say, it's at times like this that I wish I had a collection of
Cannon or Nikon lenses, instead of Pentax.
August 14, 2005 6:08:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 02:08:06 +0100, "Polly Pentax" <petax@polly.net>
wrote:

>
>"Tony Polson" <tp@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:rt3tf15c940f40dj6l5naq9t814307uf6g@4ax.com...
>> "Polly Pentax" <petax@polly.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I know that I'm asking for speculative and subjective opinions, but I
>>>would
>>>appreciate some input on my dilemma
>>>
>>>I'm currently happily using an *istD, and have half a dozen reasonable
>>>lenses.
>>>
>>>The *istD still seems (to me) to be far and away the best Pentax dslr, the
>>>DS was tolerable - but the DL (with its 'digital filters') is nothing
>>>short
>>>of a 'Fun-Cam'.
>>>
>>>But the istD is now discontinued (as is the DS) and in very short supply -
>>>Pentax UK don't have a single one left.
>>>
>>>I have the chance to buy a new *istD body for £450, and there is my
>>>dilemma - do I buy an obsolete (although very well made and extremely
>>>satisfactory) camera, thereby safeguarding my lens investment, or do I
>>>wait
>>>and hope that Pentax will bring out another 'real' dslr?
>>>
>>>I've read all the speculation about an 8mp, 10mp, 12,mp (take your pick) ,
>>>anti-shake replacement for the *istD - but that's ALL it is, speculation.
>>>
>>>Part of me desperately wants to believe that Pentax will shortly announce
>>>such a model, and part of me thinks that, given their dire economic
>>>situation, Pentax might not even be making digital cameras this time next
>>>year.
>>>
>>>If I let this body go I certainly won't finds another new one if I need
>>>it.
>>>If I buy it and Pentax suddenly announce a new high specification camera I
>>>will have bought the second *istD in vain - I know I could sell it - but
>>>the
>>>price would have to be low if a new all singing-all-dancing model was
>>>about
>>>to ship.
>>>
>>>I have to admit to feeling a bit pessimistic about the future of Pentax -
>>>their three dslr's have been a dismal progression downwards in terms of
>>>features and quality. No dealer I've spoken to rates their chances of
>>>survival very highly- but who knows?
>>>
>>>So, what would you do? - chance a new body announcement?, buy the *istD
>>>and
>>>know I've got a replacement if/when necessary?, or sell up and go for a
>>>surer bet like Canon?
>>
>>
>> No matter which you buy, there will always be something better around
>> the corner. If that worries you, just don't buy a DSLR. Ever.
>>
>> The *ist D for £450 is good value. I paid £21 less for mine, but I
>> have also seen them advertised at £579 in Jessops. So £450 is good.
>>
>> If you buy a Canon DSLR, the situation is exactly the same.
>
>
>Hi, Tony.
>
>I think that the difference with Canon is that you can be almost 100%
>certain that they will still be around in a couple of years, and will have
>good upgrade models available to purchase.
>
>Whether the same is true for Pentax must be debatable, given their current
>position.
>
>The D is available at Park Cameras for £600 - but they only have a few.
>No-one else that I know of (apart from this single one at £450) has them in
>stock at all, and Pentax UK also have no stocks left. So, it's buy now, or
>almost certainly do without in the future - UNLESS Pentax come up with a
>replacement.
>
>I also take Kitt's point that, if it's good enough, it doesn't matter
>whether any new bodies are forthcoming - except for the fact that I'll be
>reluctant to add expensive lenses without a clear upgrade path.
>
>Will Pentax keep tolerating losses on their digital imaging division?,
>that's the question. In fact, 'will' the promised Medium Format model,
>mentioned by John, actually materialise?
>
>I have to say, it's at times like this that I wish I had a collection of
>Cannon or Nikon lenses, instead of Pentax.
>


Pop Photo thinks Pentax will come out with a 645D. I abandond my
pentax glass, the *ist was too small for my hands.

How about we make a deal, I'll get you a *ist, you gett me one of
these to use on my Bronica?

http://www.creo.com/global/products/digital_photography...

sound okay?
August 14, 2005 6:08:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Polly Pentax" <petax@polly.net> wrote in message
news:3m7jtaF15qo93U1@individual.net...
>
> Will Pentax keep tolerating losses on their digital imaging division?,
> that's the question. In fact, 'will' the promised Medium Format model,
> mentioned by John, actually materialise?
>
I don't think Pentax said they were losing money. I believe their earning
fell below projections, there is a difference!

Pentax has always been a victim of their own marketing departments. They
should follow Nikon's lead with the new D50 commercials (in Canada) very
good commercials.

I would like to see an *ist LX. I don't have a big wish list. I don't dream
of a Pentax 1Ds mk.II. I get pretty good results right now with my *ist D.
What would I like to see? Pentax has a different philosophy, so here's what
could be interesting;

1/. Open RAW support http://www.openraw.org and/or a firmware SDK imagine
being able to truly customize camera functions. This could create a niche
market for them.

2/. Bring back and market their Pro glass, Pentax has had 200/2.8, 300/2.8,
400/2.8. 500/4 etc. IS/VR would be good, maybe licence the Minolta AS. I
don't know what stabilization Pentax is testing, but I would be happy to
field (BETA) test a VR telezoom ;) 

I really enjoy my *ist D, as much as my LX. I have been a long time Pentax
owner, bought my first real camera in 1972 a Pentax Spotmatic II.
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 6:33:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Charles" <ckraft@SAMTRAP.west.net> wrote in message
news:2t6tf1dsnhdg9hp4hj2il493vucv8pem0v@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 02:08:06 +0100, "Polly Pentax" <petax@polly.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Tony Polson" <tp@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>news:rt3tf15c940f40dj6l5naq9t814307uf6g@4ax.com...
>>> "Polly Pentax" <petax@polly.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I know that I'm asking for speculative and subjective opinions, but I
>>>>would
>>>>appreciate some input on my dilemma
>>>>
>>>>I'm currently happily using an *istD, and have half a dozen reasonable
>>>>lenses.
>>>>
>>>>The *istD still seems (to me) to be far and away the best Pentax dslr,
>>>>the
>>>>DS was tolerable - but the DL (with its 'digital filters') is nothing
>>>>short
>>>>of a 'Fun-Cam'.
>>>>
>>>>But the istD is now discontinued (as is the DS) and in very short
>>>>supply -
>>>>Pentax UK don't have a single one left.
>>>>
>>>>I have the chance to buy a new *istD body for £450, and there is my
>>>>dilemma - do I buy an obsolete (although very well made and extremely
>>>>satisfactory) camera, thereby safeguarding my lens investment, or do I
>>>>wait
>>>>and hope that Pentax will bring out another 'real' dslr?
>>>>
>>>>I've read all the speculation about an 8mp, 10mp, 12,mp (take your pick)
>>>>,
>>>>anti-shake replacement for the *istD - but that's ALL it is,
>>>>speculation.
>>>>
>>>>Part of me desperately wants to believe that Pentax will shortly
>>>>announce
>>>>such a model, and part of me thinks that, given their dire economic
>>>>situation, Pentax might not even be making digital cameras this time
>>>>next
>>>>year.
>>>>
>>>>If I let this body go I certainly won't finds another new one if I need
>>>>it.
>>>>If I buy it and Pentax suddenly announce a new high specification camera
>>>>I
>>>>will have bought the second *istD in vain - I know I could sell it - but
>>>>the
>>>>price would have to be low if a new all singing-all-dancing model was
>>>>about
>>>>to ship.
>>>>
>>>>I have to admit to feeling a bit pessimistic about the future of
>>>>Pentax -
>>>>their three dslr's have been a dismal progression downwards in terms of
>>>>features and quality. No dealer I've spoken to rates their chances of
>>>>survival very highly- but who knows?
>>>>
>>>>So, what would you do? - chance a new body announcement?, buy the *istD
>>>>and
>>>>know I've got a replacement if/when necessary?, or sell up and go for a
>>>>surer bet like Canon?
>>>
>>>
>>> No matter which you buy, there will always be something better around
>>> the corner. If that worries you, just don't buy a DSLR. Ever.
>>>
>>> The *ist D for £450 is good value. I paid £21 less for mine, but I
>>> have also seen them advertised at £579 in Jessops. So £450 is good.
>>>
>>> If you buy a Canon DSLR, the situation is exactly the same.
>>
>>
>>Hi, Tony.
>>
>>I think that the difference with Canon is that you can be almost 100%
>>certain that they will still be around in a couple of years, and will have
>>good upgrade models available to purchase.
>>
>>Whether the same is true for Pentax must be debatable, given their current
>>position.
>>
>>The D is available at Park Cameras for £600 - but they only have a few.
>>No-one else that I know of (apart from this single one at £450) has them
>>in
>>stock at all, and Pentax UK also have no stocks left. So, it's buy now,
>>or
>>almost certainly do without in the future - UNLESS Pentax come up with a
>>replacement.
>>
>>I also take Kitt's point that, if it's good enough, it doesn't matter
>>whether any new bodies are forthcoming - except for the fact that I'll be
>>reluctant to add expensive lenses without a clear upgrade path.
>>
>>Will Pentax keep tolerating losses on their digital imaging division?,
>>that's the question. In fact, 'will' the promised Medium Format model,
>>mentioned by John, actually materialise?
>>
>>I have to say, it's at times like this that I wish I had a collection of
>>Cannon or Nikon lenses, instead of Pentax.
>>
>
>
> Pop Photo thinks Pentax will come out with a 645D. I abandond my
> pentax glass, the *ist was too small for my hands.
>
> How about we make a deal, I'll get you a *ist, you gett me one of
> these to use on my Bronica?
>
> http://www.creo.com/global/products/digital_photography...
>
> sound okay?<<


Not an easy thing to steal, I suspect - they're bound to have it in a locked
glass display cabinet. There's just no fun left in shoplifting any more.

It does look rather tasty though
August 14, 2005 6:33:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 02:33:42 +0100, "Polly Pentax" <petax@polly.net>
wrote:

>
>"Charles" <ckraft@SAMTRAP.west.net> wrote in message
>news:2t6tf1dsnhdg9hp4hj2il493vucv8pem0v@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 02:08:06 +0100, "Polly Pentax" <petax@polly.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Tony Polson" <tp@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>news:rt3tf15c940f40dj6l5naq9t814307uf6g@4ax.com...
>>>> "Polly Pentax" <petax@polly.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I know that I'm asking for speculative and subjective opinions, but I
>>>>>would
>>>>>appreciate some input on my dilemma
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm currently happily using an *istD, and have half a dozen reasonable
>>>>>lenses.
>>>>>
>>>>>The *istD still seems (to me) to be far and away the best Pentax dslr,
>>>>>the
>>>>>DS was tolerable - but the DL (with its 'digital filters') is nothing
>>>>>short
>>>>>of a 'Fun-Cam'.
>>>>>
>>>>>But the istD is now discontinued (as is the DS) and in very short
>>>>>supply -
>>>>>Pentax UK don't have a single one left.
>>>>>
>>>>>I have the chance to buy a new *istD body for £450, and there is my
>>>>>dilemma - do I buy an obsolete (although very well made and extremely
>>>>>satisfactory) camera, thereby safeguarding my lens investment, or do I
>>>>>wait
>>>>>and hope that Pentax will bring out another 'real' dslr?
>>>>>
>>>>>I've read all the speculation about an 8mp, 10mp, 12,mp (take your pick)
>>>>>,
>>>>>anti-shake replacement for the *istD - but that's ALL it is,
>>>>>speculation.
>>>>>
>>>>>Part of me desperately wants to believe that Pentax will shortly
>>>>>announce
>>>>>such a model, and part of me thinks that, given their dire economic
>>>>>situation, Pentax might not even be making digital cameras this time
>>>>>next
>>>>>year.
>>>>>
>>>>>If I let this body go I certainly won't finds another new one if I need
>>>>>it.
>>>>>If I buy it and Pentax suddenly announce a new high specification camera
>>>>>I
>>>>>will have bought the second *istD in vain - I know I could sell it - but
>>>>>the
>>>>>price would have to be low if a new all singing-all-dancing model was
>>>>>about
>>>>>to ship.
>>>>>
>>>>>I have to admit to feeling a bit pessimistic about the future of
>>>>>Pentax -
>>>>>their three dslr's have been a dismal progression downwards in terms of
>>>>>features and quality. No dealer I've spoken to rates their chances of
>>>>>survival very highly- but who knows?
>>>>>
>>>>>So, what would you do? - chance a new body announcement?, buy the *istD
>>>>>and
>>>>>know I've got a replacement if/when necessary?, or sell up and go for a
>>>>>surer bet like Canon?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No matter which you buy, there will always be something better around
>>>> the corner. If that worries you, just don't buy a DSLR. Ever.
>>>>
>>>> The *ist D for £450 is good value. I paid £21 less for mine, but I
>>>> have also seen them advertised at £579 in Jessops. So £450 is good.
>>>>
>>>> If you buy a Canon DSLR, the situation is exactly the same.
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi, Tony.
>>>
>>>I think that the difference with Canon is that you can be almost 100%
>>>certain that they will still be around in a couple of years, and will have
>>>good upgrade models available to purchase.
>>>
>>>Whether the same is true for Pentax must be debatable, given their current
>>>position.
>>>
>>>The D is available at Park Cameras for £600 - but they only have a few.
>>>No-one else that I know of (apart from this single one at £450) has them
>>>in
>>>stock at all, and Pentax UK also have no stocks left. So, it's buy now,
>>>or
>>>almost certainly do without in the future - UNLESS Pentax come up with a
>>>replacement.
>>>
>>>I also take Kitt's point that, if it's good enough, it doesn't matter
>>>whether any new bodies are forthcoming - except for the fact that I'll be
>>>reluctant to add expensive lenses without a clear upgrade path.
>>>
>>>Will Pentax keep tolerating losses on their digital imaging division?,
>>>that's the question. In fact, 'will' the promised Medium Format model,
>>>mentioned by John, actually materialise?
>>>
>>>I have to say, it's at times like this that I wish I had a collection of
>>>Cannon or Nikon lenses, instead of Pentax.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Pop Photo thinks Pentax will come out with a 645D. I abandond my
>> pentax glass, the *ist was too small for my hands.
>>
>> How about we make a deal, I'll get you a *ist, you gett me one of
>> these to use on my Bronica?
>>
>> http://www.creo.com/global/products/digital_photography...
>>
>> sound okay?<<
>
>
>Not an easy thing to steal, I suspect - they're bound to have it in a locked
>glass display cabinet. There's just no fun left in shoplifting any more.
>
>It does look rather tasty though
>


Pop Photo says only $29,999. that's US of course, no VAT added yet.
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 6:39:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Isaiah Beard" <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote in message
news:11ft7h07blh2s3c@corp.supernews.com...
> Nicholas Wittebol wrote:
>> I find it funny that you acknowledge that you are asking for speculation,
>> and then later discard information about a future 8, 10, 12 mp anti-shake
>> replacement because it is just speculation...
>
> What do you expect? He owns an Official Camera of the Internet[tm]. :) <


That's the trouble with this group - every amateur comedian for miles around
regards it as a stage from which to dazzle the audience with their fondly
imagined wit.

Perhaps I should have known better than to ask for advice here - I'd
probably have better luck in an Ape house, just get a Chimp to point to a
couple of cards, 'Buy', or 'Not Buy'.
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 7:27:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Polly Pentax" <petax@polly.net> wrote in message
news:3m7ln9F15huchU1@individual.net...
>
> "Isaiah Beard" <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> wrote in message
> news:11ft7h07blh2s3c@corp.supernews.com...
>> Nicholas Wittebol wrote:
>>> I find it funny that you acknowledge that you are asking for speculation,
>>> and then later discard information about a future 8, 10, 12 mp anti-shake
>>> replacement because it is just speculation...
>>
>> What do you expect? He owns an Official Camera of the Internet[tm]. :) <
>
>
> That's the trouble with this group - every amateur comedian for miles around
> regards it as a stage from which to dazzle the audience with their fondly
> imagined wit.
>
> Perhaps I should have known better than to ask for advice here - I'd
> probably have better luck in an Ape house, just get a Chimp to point to a
> couple of cards, 'Buy', or 'Not Buy'.
>

Good idea.
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 7:39:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Polly Pentax wrote:
> "Tony Polson" <tp@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:rt3tf15c940f40dj6l5naq9t814307uf6g@4ax.com...
> > "Polly Pentax" <petax@polly.net> wrote:
> >
> >>I know that I'm asking for speculative and subjective opinions, but I
> >>would
> >>appreciate some input on my dilemma
> >>
> >>I'm currently happily using an *istD, and have half a dozen reasonable
> >>lenses.
> >>
> >>The *istD still seems (to me) to be far and away the best Pentax dslr, the
> >>DS was tolerable - but the DL (with its 'digital filters') is nothing
> >>short
> >>of a 'Fun-Cam'.
> >>
> >>But the istD is now discontinued (as is the DS) and in very short supply -
> >>Pentax UK don't have a single one left.
> >>
> >>I have the chance to buy a new *istD body for £450, and there is my
> >>dilemma - do I buy an obsolete (although very well made and extremely
> >>satisfactory) camera, thereby safeguarding my lens investment, or do I
> >>wait
> >>and hope that Pentax will bring out another 'real' dslr?
> >>
> >>I've read all the speculation about an 8mp, 10mp, 12,mp (take your pick) ,
> >>anti-shake replacement for the *istD - but that's ALL it is, speculation.
> >>
> >>Part of me desperately wants to believe that Pentax will shortly announce
> >>such a model, and part of me thinks that, given their dire economic
> >>situation, Pentax might not even be making digital cameras this time next
> >>year.
> >>
> >>If I let this body go I certainly won't finds another new one if I need
> >>it.
> >>If I buy it and Pentax suddenly announce a new high specification camera I
> >>will have bought the second *istD in vain - I know I could sell it - but
> >>the
> >>price would have to be low if a new all singing-all-dancing model was
> >>about
> >>to ship.
> >>
> >>I have to admit to feeling a bit pessimistic about the future of Pentax -
> >>their three dslr's have been a dismal progression downwards in terms of
> >>features and quality. No dealer I've spoken to rates their chances of
> >>survival very highly- but who knows?
> >>
> >>So, what would you do? - chance a new body announcement?, buy the *istD
> >>and
> >>know I've got a replacement if/when necessary?, or sell up and go for a
> >>surer bet like Canon?
> >
> >
> > No matter which you buy, there will always be something better around
> > the corner. If that worries you, just don't buy a DSLR. Ever.
> >
> > The *ist D for £450 is good value. I paid £21 less for mine, but I
> > have also seen them advertised at £579 in Jessops. So £450 is good.
> >
> > If you buy a Canon DSLR, the situation is exactly the same.
>
>
> Hi, Tony.
>
> I think that the difference with Canon is that you can be almost 100%
> certain that they will still be around in a couple of years, and will have
> good upgrade models available to purchase.
>
> Whether the same is true for Pentax must be debatable, given their current
> position.
>
> The D is available at Park Cameras for £600 - but they only have a few.
> No-one else that I know of (apart from this single one at £450) has them in
> stock at all, and Pentax UK also have no stocks left. So, it's buy now, or
> almost certainly do without in the future - UNLESS Pentax come up with a
> replacement.
>
> I also take Kitt's point that, if it's good enough, it doesn't matter
> whether any new bodies are forthcoming - except for the fact that I'll be
> reluctant to add expensive lenses without a clear upgrade path.



That might even be a bright spot. Kind of an immunization from the
"Photo Hobbyist Disease". It would force you to get the most out of a
perfectly good camera and the lenses that go with it before you're
tempted by the latest and greatest? ;o)



>
> Will Pentax keep tolerating losses on their digital imaging division?,
> that's the question. In fact, 'will' the promised Medium Format model,
> mentioned by John, actually materialise?
>
> I have to say, it's at times like this that I wish I had a collection of
> Cannon or Nikon lenses, instead of Pentax.
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 12:30:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Polly Pentax wrote:

> So, what would you do? - chance a new body announcement?, buy the
> *istD and know I've got a replacement if/when necessary?, or sell up
> and go for a surer bet like Canon?

I'd just wait for the replacement to the *istD. I think that Pentax
will be replacing this model, otherwise their line of professional
lenses might not have much of a market. It will certainly be
interesting to see what they deliver. Hopefully it will be at least a
10 MP sensor.

--
Witold
August 14, 2005 12:38:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 00:49:37 +0100, "Polly Pentax" <petax@polly.net>
wrote:


>
>So, what would you do? - chance a new body announcement?, buy the *istD and
>know I've got a replacement if/when necessary?, or sell up and go for a
>surer bet like Canon?
>
>Thanks for your input.
>
>
If, and I think it is a very BIG if, Pentax doesn't make any new
cameras, you could have 2 ist D cameras that may be in demand by
others.

Personally, I like my ist Ds.

Glenn
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 12:43:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Polly Pentax wrote:
> "Nicholas Wittebol" <nicholas.wittebol@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:MMSdneKUj5LTEWPfRVn-3w@rogers.com...
> >I find it funny that you acknowledge that you are asking for speculation,
> >and then later discard information about a future 8, 10, 12 mp anti-shake
> >replacement because it is just speculation...
>
>
>
> Point taken - but I can't say that it's been much help
>
> I don't expect anyone to know the inner workings of Pentax Corporation, I
> was just asking what *others* would do if they faced the same dilemma.

I don't know about the inner workings of Pentax Corporation, but I know
this - there's been many corporations that suffered a loss year after
year and kept going, and Pentax is no more likely to quit digital now
than it was to quit 35mm two or three decades ago when the medium was
different but the market situation was more or less the same duel it is
now between Canon and Nikon and the rest left fighting for scraps.
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 6:06:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Polly Pentax" <petax@polly.net> wrote:
>
>Hi, Tony.
>
>I think that the difference with Canon is that you can be almost 100%
>certain that they will still be around in a couple of years, and will have
>good upgrade models available to purchase.
>
>Whether the same is true for Pentax must be debatable, given their current
>position.

Pentax are in a stronger position than some.

The digital imaging divisions of Sony and Konica Minolta are in deep
trouble. They have announced a joint venture to co-develop DSLRs, but
that is more a sign of their joint desperation than anything else.

Olympus desperately needs a 10+ MP pro model to justify the top
quality Zuiko Digital lenses. Olympus has wisely ditched Kodak,
formerly a Four Thirds partner, for Panasonic. Olympus and Panasonic
will shortly introduce at least three new DSLRs between them, but
until then, the jury is out on whether Four Thirds will prosper in the
medium to long term.

Pentax are still making money, and can count on a great many owners of
Pentax point and shoot film and digital cameras to trade up to a DSLR
of the same brand.

>The D is available at Park Cameras for £600 - but they only have a few.
>No-one else that I know of (apart from this single one at £450) has them in
>stock at all, and Pentax UK also have no stocks left. So, it's buy now, or
>almost certainly do without in the future - UNLESS Pentax come up with a
>replacement.

You might like to refer to the review of the Pentax *ist DL in the
issue of Amateur Photographer due out on Tuesday. The review
concluded that the *ist DL has the best image quality of the three
Pentax *ist DSLRs.

>I also take Kitt's point that, if it's good enough, it doesn't matter
>whether any new bodies are forthcoming - except for the fact that I'll be
>reluctant to add expensive lenses without a clear upgrade path.

Then don't add them! Just buy the kit lens, or the 18-35mm FAJ, both
of which are cheap but more than adequate.

>Will Pentax keep tolerating losses on their digital imaging division?,
>that's the question. In fact, 'will' the promised Medium Format model,
>mentioned by John, actually materialise?

Pentax aren't losing money. Konica Minolta, Sony and Olympus are.

>I have to say, it's at times like this that I wish I had a collection of
>Cannon or Nikon lenses, instead of Pentax.

On the contrary, most Pentax lenses have desirable optical qualities
that are lacking in all but a few, mostly expensive Canon EF lenses
and AF Nikkors. Be glad that you have them.

My advice is; find an *ist D, or a DS, or a DL, don't pay more than
£500, and enjoy your purchase to the full.
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 6:06:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Tony Polson <tp@nospam.com> wrote:
: You might like to refer to the review of the Pentax *ist DL in the
: issue of Amateur Photographer due out on Tuesday. The review
: concluded that the *ist DL has the best image quality of the three
: Pentax *ist DSLRs.

How is that? They've got the same sensor. ... or it comparing the JPG out of
the camera? IIRC the -D and -DS were chastised for not enough sharpening in the
in-camera JPG. With the same sensor (barring analog signal/noise issue flaws), RAW is
RAW. All of the image processing is done outside the camera.

I shoot exclusively RAW on my -DS for that reason. I don't want to limit my
options by any "toy" modes of the camera trying to be clever. It's a digital light
box, exposure meter, and histogram-displayer. That's all.

-Cory

--

*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 7:31:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:03:01 +0000 (UTC),
papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:

>Tony Polson <tp@nospam.com> wrote:
>: You might like to refer to the review of the Pentax *ist DL in the
>: issue of Amateur Photographer due out on Tuesday. The review
>: concluded that the *ist DL has the best image quality of the three
>: Pentax *ist DSLRs.
>
> How is that? They've got the same sensor. ... or it comparing the JPG out of
>the camera? IIRC the -D and -DS were chastised for not enough sharpening in the
>in-camera JPG. With the same sensor (barring analog signal/noise issue flaws), RAW is
>RAW. All of the image processing is done outside the camera.

The DL may have a less aggressive anti-alias filter. I've
seen examples of quite bad colour moire from the DL,
something I haven't seen from my DS.
>
> I shoot exclusively RAW on my -DS for that reason. I don't want to limit my
>options by any "toy" modes of the camera trying to be clever. It's a digital light
>box, exposure meter, and histogram-displayer. That's all.

That's a rather elitist attitude. I use anything that I find
useful, the "toy" modes don't preclude the use of raw.
Perhaps you never need continuous focus for example, which
is only available on the DS in one of the "toy" modes.



--
Regards

John Bean
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 9:11:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> As far as focusing, I've heard that the autofocus only functions
continuously
> on sports mode.

True on the DS, not the DL.

---------------
Marc Sabatella
marc@outsideshore.com

The Outside Shore
Music, art, & educational materials:
http://www.outsideshore.com/
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 9:29:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> The *istD still seems (to me) to be far and away the best Pentax dslr, the
> DS was tolerable - but the DL (with its 'digital filters') is nothing
short
> of a 'Fun-Cam'.

I think you really need to question your basic assumptions. Really, there
are far fewer difference between these cameras than your characterizations
imply. Among the differences between the D and DS, many reviews have
concluded they make the DS the better camera overall - there are some pretty
significant number of upgrades and not that many downgrades. Even if one's
preferences are such that they would weigh in favor of the D, I don't think
anyone really familiar would be reasonable say it was "far and away" the
better camera. Now, I think the DL is more obviously intended to be less of
a camera than the DS, but even so, it isn't *that* much less if you actually
compare the specs. The fact that they added a few more P&S type features
for those who want them in no way diminishes the usefulness of the camera.
A less sophisticated AF system could be an issue for some, and of course no
one likes to see viewfinders get smaller, but those who have tried both
report being impressed with the DL.

> part of me thinks that, given their dire economic
> situation, Pentax might not even be making digital cameras this time next
> year.

I guess I've seen nothing to make me think the situation is that dire.

> I have to admit to feeling a bit pessimistic about the future of Pentax -
> their three dslr's have been a dismal progression downwards in terms of
> features and quality.

Given that the market in general seems to have found the DS an improvement
over the D (and the DL is too new to say), I wouldn't be that concerned
about this progression.

> So, what would you do? - chance a new body announcement?, buy the *istD
and
> know I've got a replacement if/when necessary?, or sell up and go for a
> surer bet like Canon?

Personally, I'd wait. If Pentax fails to produce an upgrade to the D, and
you feel it important to have a backup body, there will still be plenty of
DL's around, and despite what you say, it still seems to be a perfectly good
camera. If there were things about the D that made you prefer Pentax to the
others in the first place, the DL really doesn't take take many of those
away, and switching to Canon or Nikon won't suddenly give you those features
now if they didn't then. Also, you could simply not get any backup body at
all. When your current camera dies, see if Pentax has something available
you like. If not, well then, *that's* the time to switch to another
manufacturer. Technology being what it is, the same $1000 (or whatever)
will get you a much better body when your current D dies than it will now.

---------------
Marc Sabatella
marc@outsideshore.com

The Outside Shore
Music, art, & educational materials:
http://www.outsideshore.com/
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 12:44:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:

>Tony Polson <tp@nospam.com> wrote:
>: You might like to refer to the review of the Pentax *ist DL in the
>: issue of Amateur Photographer due out on Tuesday. The review
>: concluded that the *ist DL has the best image quality of the three
>: Pentax *ist DSLRs.
>
> How is that? They've got the same sensor.


The Nikon D100 also has the same sensor. All three of the Pentax
DSLRs (*ist D, DS, DL) have better image quality than the D100.

Go figure.
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 12:46:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:
>
>I just get tired of reviews where different models are unfairly compared
>against one another. I tend to think that comparing things like image quality (in
>particular sensitivity and noise) should be done with a RAW capture and converted with
>the same RAW converter program.


That's a valid point.

However, in reality, most users of entry-level DSLRs will shoot JPEGs.
Perhaps comparisons should be done using RAW *and* JPEG performance,
which will obviously give different conclusions in some cases.
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 12:46:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Tony Polson <tp@nospam.com> wrote:

> papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:
> >
> >I just get tired of reviews where different models are unfairly compared
> >against one another. I tend to think that comparing things like image
> >quality (in particular sensitivity and noise) should be done with a RAW
> >capture and converted with the same RAW converter program.
>
> That's a valid point.
>
> However, in reality, most users of entry-level DSLRs will shoot JPEGs.
> Perhaps comparisons should be done using RAW *and* JPEG performance, which
> will obviously give different conclusions in some cases.

When I got my point-and-shoot Olympus, I made sure it could give me RAW
(or, in that case, ORF) files. 'Entry level' means many, many different
things.

A thorough review of a given camera, especially in comparison with
another one, would include every conceivable mode of comparison,
including both RAW and JPEG quality. But such a review might be, like...
hard and junk. It would take time, and otherwise be annoying and require
an open mind and stuff. What a drag.
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 2:42:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

usenet@mile23.c0m (Paul Mitchum) wrote:

>A thorough review of a given camera, especially in comparison with
>another one, would include every conceivable mode of comparison,
>including both RAW and JPEG quality. But such a review might be, like...
>hard and junk. It would take time, and otherwise be annoying and require
>an open mind and stuff. What a drag.


Yes, the facts are just too boring to waste any time on them.

;-)
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 5:12:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Marc Sabatella" <marc@outsideshore.com> wrote in message
news:11fvl48d71qfr3e@corp.supernews.com...
>> The *istD still seems (to me) to be far and away the best Pentax dslr,
>> the
>> DS was tolerable - but the DL (with its 'digital filters') is nothing
> short
>> of a 'Fun-Cam'.
>
> I think you really need to question your basic assumptions. Really, there
> are far fewer difference between these cameras than your characterizations
> imply. Among the differences between the D and DS, many reviews have
> concluded they make the DS the better camera overall - there are some
> pretty
> significant number of upgrades and not that many downgrades. Even if
> one's
> preferences are such that they would weigh in favor of the D, I don't
> think
> anyone really familiar would be reasonable say it was "far and away" the
> better camera. Now, I think the DL is more obviously intended to be less
> of
> a camera than the DS, but even so, it isn't *that* much less if you
> actually
> compare the specs. The fact that they added a few more P&S type features
> for those who want them in no way diminishes the usefulness of the camera.
> A less sophisticated AF system could be an issue for some, and of course
> no
> one likes to see viewfinders get smaller, but those who have tried both
> report being impressed with the DL.
>
>> part of me thinks that, given their dire economic
>> situation, Pentax might not even be making digital cameras this time next
>> year.
>
> I guess I've seen nothing to make me think the situation is that dire.
>
>> I have to admit to feeling a bit pessimistic about the future of Pentax -
>> their three dslr's have been a dismal progression downwards in terms of
>> features and quality.
>
> Given that the market in general seems to have found the DS an improvement
> over the D (and the DL is too new to say), I wouldn't be that concerned
> about this progression.
>
>> So, what would you do? - chance a new body announcement?, buy the *istD
> and
>> know I've got a replacement if/when necessary?, or sell up and go for a
>> surer bet like Canon?
>
> Personally, I'd wait. If Pentax fails to produce an upgrade to the D, and
> you feel it important to have a backup body, there will still be plenty of
> DL's around, and despite what you say, it still seems to be a perfectly
> good
> camera. If there were things about the D that made you prefer Pentax to
> the
> others in the first place, the DL really doesn't take take many of those
> away, and switching to Canon or Nikon won't suddenly give you those
> features
> now if they didn't then. Also, you could simply not get any backup body
> at
> all. When your current camera dies, see if Pentax has something available
> you like. If not, well then, *that's* the time to switch to another
> manufacturer. Technology being what it is, the same $1000 (or whatever)
> will get you a much better body when your current D dies than it will
> now.<



Thanks for a comprehensive reply Mark.

My preference for the D is based on the greater degree of manual controls,
the use of CF cards, PTTL on-board flash, wireless flash capability, the
well designed battery grip (that doesn't require removal of the battery
compartment door like some brands!), the program 'shift' facility, and a
perception that it is generally built to a higher standard than its
siblings, given its initial target market and price.

I think that the primary reason it failed to sell very well was the
ridiculously high price set by Pentax - had they been more realistic I think
it would have really taken off.

As it is, I think that all of us owe a debt to Canon, whether we use their
cameras or not, for forcing the price of all dslr's down to more affordable
levels.

Having given the matter some thought I've decided to buy the extra body - it
can always be sold (perhaps with not too much of a loss, given the revised
£450 price tag) if Pentax do come up trumps with a D successor.

Besides, knowing Pentax, any D replacement is likely to be quite expensive,
and it might be several months before diminishing demand forces the price
down.

Thanks again to you and all others who chipped in with their advice.
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 11:47:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Marc Sabatella" <marc@outsideshore.com> wrote in message
news:11fvl47cdh5153c@corp.supernews.com...
>> As far as focusing, I've heard that the autofocus only functions
> continuously
>> on sports mode.
>
> True on the DS, not the DL.

Does that mean the DL does continous focus in all modes or not at all?

Thanks.
>
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 11:48:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Tony Polson" <tp@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:4m7vf1h85eje8eppdpqe04m2ufl4ap52pr@4ax.com...
> papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:
>
>>Tony Polson <tp@nospam.com> wrote:
>>: You might like to refer to the review of the Pentax *ist DL in the
>>: issue of Amateur Photographer due out on Tuesday. The review
>>: concluded that the *ist DL has the best image quality of the three
>>: Pentax *ist DSLRs.
>>
>> How is that? They've got the same sensor.
>
>
> The Nikon D100 also has the same sensor. All three of the Pentax
> DSLRs (*ist D, DS, DL) have better image quality than the D100.
>
> Go figure.

I know the D70 has the same sensor as the DS and DL and the D70 is better
in JPEG mode but they are pretty much the same in RAW mode.
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 12:46:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Polly Pentax" <petax@polly.net> wrote:

>Having given the matter some thought I've decided to buy the extra body - it
>can always be sold (perhaps with not too much of a loss, given the revised
>£450 price tag) if Pentax do come up trumps with a D successor.
>
> Besides, knowing Pentax, any D replacement is likely to be quite expensive,
>and it might be several months before diminishing demand forces the price
>down.

Expect a DS replacement early next year (8 megapixels, Pentax-made CMOS
sensor).
Probably an ist-D replacement shortly thereafter, but I have no
information about the specifications for that yet.

I'm probably going to stick with my ist-D until I get some idea of what
the replacement camera is going to be like. Then I'll decide what to get
as a second digital body.

--
Mark Roberts
Photography and writing
www.robertstech.com
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 4:17:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Marc Sabatella" <marc@outsideshore.com> wrote:

>I think you really need to question your basic assumptions. Really, there
>are far fewer difference between these cameras than your characterizations
>imply. Among the differences between the D and DS, many reviews have
>concluded they make the DS the better camera overall - there are some pretty
>significant number of upgrades and not that many downgrades. Even if one's
>preferences are such that they would weigh in favor of the D, I don't think
>anyone really familiar would be reasonable say it was "far and away" the
>better camera.


That's a good analysis. I chose the D over the DS but it was a narrow
decision. Several Pentax-using friends recommended the DS because
they are very happy with theirs.
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 4:18:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Polly Pentax" <petax@polly.net> wrote:

>Having given the matter some thought I've decided to buy the extra body - it
>can always be sold (perhaps with not too much of a loss, given the revised
>£450 price tag) if Pentax do come up trumps with a D successor.
>
> Besides, knowing Pentax, any D replacement is likely to be quite expensive,
>and it might be several months before diminishing demand forces the price
>down.
>
>Thanks again to you and all others who chipped in with their advice.


Well done. You made a good decision, and got a good price.
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 4:44:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> Does that mean the DL does continous focus in all modes or not at all?

All, as far as I know.

---------------
Marc Sabatella
marc@outsideshore.com

The Outside Shore
Music, art, & educational materials:
http://www.outsideshore.com/
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 5:39:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Mark Roberts <mark@robertstech.com> wrote:
: Expect a DS replacement early next year (8 megapixels, Pentax-made CMOS
: sensor).

Pentax is going to build their own sensors?

: Probably an ist-D replacement shortly thereafter, but I have no
: information about the specifications for that yet.

I would think that the ist-D replacement would come first, since it's longer
in the tooth and can command a higher price. Aside from better and/or bigger sensors,
I can't think of much to improve on that firmware updates can't fix. Of course, I'm
not marketing, either... :) 

-Cory

--

*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 5:39:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

papenfussDIESPAM@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:

>Mark Roberts <mark@robertstech.com> wrote:
>: Expect a DS replacement early next year (8 megapixels, Pentax-made CMOS
>: sensor).
>
> Pentax is going to build their own sensors?

Yep.

>: Probably an ist-D replacement shortly thereafter, but I have no
>: information about the specifications for that yet.
>
> I would think that the ist-D replacement would come first, since it's longer
>in the tooth and can command a higher price.

Lots more profit in the low end due to sales volume. (A source close to
Nikon told me that the D70 "saved the company".)

--
Mark Roberts
Photography and writing
www.robertstech.com
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 6:20:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Mark Roberts wrote:
> "Polly Pentax" <petax@polly.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Having given the matter some thought I've decided to buy the extra body - it
>>can always be sold (perhaps with not too much of a loss, given the revised
>>£450 price tag) if Pentax do come up trumps with a D successor.
>>
>>Besides, knowing Pentax, any D replacement is likely to be quite expensive,
>>and it might be several months before diminishing demand forces the price
>>down.
>
>
> Expect a DS replacement early next year (8 megapixels, Pentax-made CMOS
> sensor).

It would be highly unlikely to see Pentax making their own sensors, it's
a tremendous investment to do sensor design, and they have no market
share to justify such an expense. If anything, Sony will come out with
an 8 megapixel CMOS sensor to sell to Nikon, Pentax, KM, and whoever
else needs it.
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 6:35:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Mark Roberts wrote:
>
> Lots more profit in the low end due to sales volume. (A source close to
> Nikon told me that the D70 "saved the company".)

This is correct. The high margins and the high volumes on the D70 made
up for the declining market share and low margins on point and shoot
digital cameras. The D50 looks like another big hit.

Even though many people moan about Nikon's lack of models that compete
against the 20D or the 1Ds Mark II, the volumes on these higher end
models are relatively low. For Nikon to fund Sony's development of
sensors for competitive models at the higher end would be a strategic
decison, rather than a decision based on the ROI of the specific product.
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 6:38:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Marc Sabatella" <marc@outsideshore.com> wrote in message
news:11fvl48d71qfr3e@corp.supernews.com...
>> The *istD still seems (to me) to be far and away the best Pentax dslr,
>> the
>> DS was tolerable - but the DL (with its 'digital filters') is nothing
> short
>> of a 'Fun-Cam'.
>
> I think you really need to question your basic assumptions. Really, there
> are far fewer difference between these cameras than your characterizations
> imply. Among the differences between the D and DS, many reviews have
> concluded they make the DS the better camera overall - there are some
> pretty
> significant number of upgrades and not that many downgrades. Even if
> one's
> preferences are such that they would weigh in favor of the D, I don't
> think
> anyone really familiar would be reasonable say it was "far and away" the
> better camera<


I don't put an awful lot of faith in these reviews - they seem to praise
whatever looks like bringing in the best advertising revenue and/or
freebies.

Before I bought the 'D' I was a bit concerned to read Askey's comments about
'soft' images, but my experience hasn't proven that to be the case - perhaps
I'm just less picky

I did try a D70 and found that it badly over sharpened a lot of images - I
can produce exactly the same result by shooting RAW and boosting the
sharpening in RSE.

Regarding he claimed advantages of the DS, I personally feel that a slightly
bigger LCD and a faster write time is a poor exchange for the features
discarded from the D - such as Hyper Program, constant focus option in all
modes, wireless flash, 'menu-less' operating changes, battery grip, multiple
exposure (not bracketing) and quite a few other things that one might
reasonably expect to find on an upscale camera.

Having initially pitched the D at too high a price, Pentax compounded their
mistake by dumbing down and releasing the DS, instead of just continuing
production of the D at a more realistic price and letting it sell on its
merits - which I believe it would have done. However, if their move was
motivated by the need to cut costs, that alone is a sufficiently good reason
to prefer the D to the DS - better to buy something built to a standard,
rather than down to a price.

As for the DL, what can I say?! - things just keep getting worse!, slashing
the focus system and flash sync speed, and installing a grotty pentamirror
just highlight their current obsession with cutting production costs. Do
you know that the DL has 'digital filters'?! - according to the Pentax site
"You can make people appear fatter or thinner"! - give me strength to cope!,
one of the most respected names in photography has been sufficiently humbled
to turn their 3rd generation DSLR into a Fun-Cam, not to mention awarding
themselves acutely embarrassing titles like 'Official Camera Of The
Internet'!

Just think of all the money that's been wasted on the DS and DL - money that
could have been used to keep the D going strong with upgraded firmware and
an attractively low price, paving the way for a worthwhile upgrade instead
of releasing toys
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 6:38:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> I don't put an awful lot of faith in these reviews - they seem to praise
> whatever looks like bringing in the best advertising revenue and/or
> freebies.

Understood - but I'm not just talking about magazine reviews, but also the
comments of users here and on the excellent Pentax DSLR forum on
dpreview.com. My impression is that *most* people who have really looked at
both find the DS to be better than the D overall.

> Before I bought the 'D' I was a bit concerned to read Askey's comments
about
> 'soft' images, but my experience hasn't proven that to be the case -
perhaps
> I'm just less picky

Ditto with me and the DS. There is one application - shooting images of my
paintings for making slides and prints - in which the quality is enough of
an issue that I *do* become that picky, but RAW solves any sharpness problem
nicely, and of course is better for the sort of color tweaks, cropping,
resizing, and so forth that are an important part of this type of work. And
otherwise, JPEG's straight out the camera do the job fine most of the time
for me.

> Regarding he claimed advantages of the DS, I personally feel that a
slightly
> bigger LCD and a faster write time is a poor exchange for the features
> discarded from the D - such as Hyper Program, constant focus option in all
> modes, wireless flash, 'menu-less' operating changes, battery grip,
multiple
> exposure (not bracketing) and quite a few other things that one might
> reasonably expect to find on an upscale camera.

Some of this is I will grant, but I think you are both understating the
advantages of the DS and overstating those of the D. You neglected to
mention the size/weight difference, which some might consider to be an
advantage for the D, but which the market clearly sees as an advantage for
the DS. Aside from that, based on the specs, flash sync speed better,
continuous shooting capabilities better, and the viewfinder and LCD displays
arguably more informative. On the other hand I'm not convinced the few
things you can do in one or two fewer button pushes on the D (presumably
what you refer to as "menu-less operating changes") make a significant
difference in the usability of the cameras.

> As for the DL, what can I say?! - things just keep getting worse!,
slashing
> the focus system and flash sync speed, and installing a grotty pentamirror
> just highlight their current obsession with cutting production costs.

The obsession could better be termed "making a profit". I thought you were
concerned with Pentax's financial future? If so, you should applaud any
move they make that enhances their profitability and hence long term
viability as a company, even if it delays by a few months or a year their
next camera in your favorite range.

Anyhow, all reports I've heard from those who have actually *seen* the DL
are that the pentamirror performs surprisingly well. And personally, I'm
not a huge fan of the 11-point focus system on the DS - seems far too likely
to end up choosing the wrong target, since there are so many to choose from.
I wouldn't be surprised if the 3-point turned out to be quicker on average,
which could make a win for some. And you overlooked the things the DL added
to the DS feature set, some of which bring it closer to the D, some of which
are improvements on the D - bigger LCD than DS or D, better auto ISO
function than DS (not sure how it compares to D), continuous autofocus more
like D. Again, I'm not saying I think the DL is an improvement overall, but
it isn't as far behind as you claim if you actually look at it objectively.
And in any case, the success of Pentax as a company doesn't hinge on how
well it's cameras meet *your* needs personally, but on how well they meet
the needs of the market as a whole.

> Do
> you know that the DL has 'digital filters'?! - according to the Pentax
site
> "You can make people appear fatter or thinner"!

Actually, the DS has these too, not that I would imagine ever using them.
And since no one forces you to do so, I see their inclusion as a non-issue.
Their presence in no way diminish the capabilities of the camera.

> Just think of all the money that's been wasted on the DS and DL

I don't think it was wasted at all. It seems clear the market rewards
investment in this class of camera more than it rewards investment in higher
end cameras. Continued investment in development of a much harder-to-sell
class of camera - especially if you reduce the price and hence the profit
margin as you suggest - is not nearly as financially a sound move as
investing in a much more profitable line. Now, I'm not saying Pentax
shouldn't invest in higher end cameras at all - that would would also be a
mistake. But doing so to the exclusion of what is considered in the
industry to be the single most profitable range of cameras (better than P&S
or high end) would have been a *colossal* financial mistake, one that would
almost certainly doom Pentax to failure. Doing what they are doing is the
road to their salvation, not their doom.

And anyhow, the improvements that were made during the development of the DS
and DL will surely work their way into Pentax's next entry in to the higher
end, so it wasn't even wasted in that sense.

---------------
Marc Sabatella
marc@outsideshore.com

The Outside Shore
Music, art, & educational materials:
http://www.outsideshore.com/
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 6:38:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Polly Pentax wrote:

> As for the DL, what can I say?! - things just keep getting worse!, slashing
> the focus system and flash sync speed, and installing a grotty pentamirror
> just highlight their current obsession with cutting production costs. Do
> you know that the DL has 'digital filters'?! - according to the Pentax site
> "You can make people appear fatter or thinner"! - give me strength to cope!,
> one of the most respected names in photography has been sufficiently humbled
> to turn their 3rd generation DSLR into a Fun-Cam, not to mention awarding
> themselves acutely embarrassing titles like 'Official Camera Of The
> Internet'!

Pentax has essentially 0% market share, and they have apparently decided
to concentrate solely on the low end market where they have at least
some chance of some volume, however small that chance may be.

They probably have the worst marketing department on the planet with the
whole "Internet" thing (embarassing for them, amusing for us).
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 7:15:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

The problems with the *istD is that it was initially selling for just
a bit less than the Canon 20D, and for more than the D70. It appealed
primarily to people that already owned Pentax lenses. There was nothing
wrong with it, but it didn't have any appeal to non-Pentax lens owners.

The D70 did so well because there was a huge market of Nikon lens
owners to sell it to, in addition to the non-lens-committed buyers, and
since it was better than the Canon EOS-300D in many ways.
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 8:49:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:D u1Me.9240$p%3.37272@typhoon.sonic.net...
> Polly Pentax wrote:
>
>> As for the DL, what can I say?! - things just keep getting worse!,
>> slashing the focus system and flash sync speed, and installing a grotty
>> pentamirror just highlight their current obsession with cutting
>> production costs. Do you know that the DL has 'digital filters'?! -
>> according to the Pentax site "You can make people appear fatter or
>> thinner"! - give me strength to cope!, one of the most respected names in
>> photography has been sufficiently humbled to turn their 3rd generation
>> DSLR into a Fun-Cam, not to mention awarding themselves acutely
>> embarrassing titles like 'Official Camera Of The Internet'!
>
> Pentax has essentially 0% market share, and they have apparently decided
> to concentrate solely on the low end market where they have at least some
> chance of some volume, however small that chance may be.
>
> They probably have the worst marketing department on the planet with the
> whole "Internet" thing (embarassing for them, amusing for us).<<


Well, no argument about that, they're total incompetents - a drunken blind
baboon could make a better job of shifting their products.

The thing is, the 'D' wasn't a bad camera at all - lower noise than a D70,
more features than a D70, better built than a D70, better looking than a
D70 - and yet the D70 trounced the *istD (and DS) simply because Nikon had
'image', and knew how to cash in on it.

The 'Official Supplier Of Photographic Products To Cyberspace' gaffe is not
just embarrassing for them, either - those of us who own a Pentax also get
the rip taken out of us (see earlier in this very tread)
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 1:02:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

> It would be highly unlikely to see Pentax making their own sensors, it's
> a tremendous investment to do sensor design, and they have no market share
> to justify such an expense. If anything, Sony will come out with an 8
> megapixel CMOS sensor to sell to Nikon, Pentax, KM, and whoever else needs
> it.

Maybe, maybe not, don't forget that Pentax does a lot of imaging products
not just the cameras we use so that any research spills over..
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 4:20:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Marc Sabatella" <marc@outsideshore.com> wrote:

>Anyhow, all reports I've heard from those who have actually *seen* the DL
>are that the pentamirror performs surprisingly well.


How well does it perform when the camera has been dropped on a hard
surface such as concrete?

I mean the sort of fall that won't affect a pentaprism in the
slightest, but will shatter one or more of the mirrors in a
pentamirror.

The viewfinder image in the DL is noticeably darker than in the D/DS.
Try focusing manually in low light, and you will immediately realise
that the D/DS pentaprism is worth every extra penny.
August 16, 2005 4:20:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Tony Polson" <tp@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uj82g11es2db4hpelji1ukfb6vs32mfcli@4ax.com...
> "Marc Sabatella" <marc@outsideshore.com> wrote:
>
>>Anyhow, all reports I've heard from those who have actually *seen* the DL
>>are that the pentamirror performs surprisingly well.
>
>
> How well does it perform when the camera has been dropped on a hard
> surface such as concrete?
>
> I mean the sort of fall that won't affect a pentaprism in the
> slightest, but will shatter one or more of the mirrors in a
> pentamirror.
>
I would survive as well as the Nikon D70/D70s and the Canon Rebel/Rebel XT
all have pentamirrors. The *ist DL felt very solid in my hands. It has a
metal skeleton and a metal lensmount. Besides you ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO DROP
ANY CAMERA!!

I have seen a shattered pentaprism, it isn't pretty. a pentamirror may
survive a drop as there isn't a solid mass to recieve a shock.
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 5:58:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Darrell" <spam@this.eh> wrote in message
news:y72dnSQ7GobCt5zeRVn-vg@rogers.com...
>
> "Tony Polson" <tp@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:uj82g11es2db4hpelji1ukfb6vs32mfcli@4ax.com...
>> "Marc Sabatella" <marc@outsideshore.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Anyhow, all reports I've heard from those who have actually *seen* the DL
>>>are that the pentamirror performs surprisingly well.
>>
>>
>> How well does it perform when the camera has been dropped on a hard
>> surface such as concrete?
>>
>> I mean the sort of fall that won't affect a pentaprism in the
>> slightest, but will shatter one or more of the mirrors in a
>> pentamirror.
>>
> I would survive as well as the Nikon D70/D70s and the Canon Rebel/Rebel XT
> all have pentamirrors. The *ist DL felt very solid in my hands. It has a
> metal skeleton and a metal lensmount. Besides you ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO DROP
> ANY CAMERA!!
>
> I have seen a shattered pentaprism, it isn't pretty. a pentamirror may
> survive a drop as there isn't a solid mass to recieve a shock. <


One of the disadvantages of the 'Mirror' v. 'Prism' is the hollow space for
dust to migrate into, which is avoided with the solid pentaprism - quite
apart form, as Tony pointed out, the superior imaging quality of the prism
..
I get the distinct feeling that Pentax are still, in their heart of hearts,
a bit sniffy about all this new-fangled digital nonsense - perhaps still
living in their glory days of film, and making a Corporate decision that, if
people really do want these 'digi-cams', they might as well be given
something cheap and disposable. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to
learn that they are waiting patiently for the digital craze to subside and
for 35mm to make a comeback!

It's certainly in sharp contrast to Canon, who realised the huge potential
of the digital market and grabbed it aggressively with both hands.
!