Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question
Closed

Reference AMD 6870 or MSI 6870, or 560 TI?!

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Share
May 22, 2012 5:34:36 PM

From what i have read the reference amd cooler is not very good for oc'ing and the seller said overclocking it would void the warranty anyway. The MSI can be oc'd via Afterburner without voiding the warranty apparently and will have better cooling but for a little more i could get a 560 TI so i'm wondering if it's worth just getting the 560 but i think my CPU could be a bottleneck, it's a Phenom 560 be oc'd to 4ghz.

Thanks!
a b U Graphics card
May 22, 2012 6:01:21 PM

560TI>6870.if you can afford then go with MSi twinfrozer gtx 560 ti.
Score
0
a c 291 U Graphics card
May 22, 2012 6:15:34 PM

All the cards can be overclocked using MSI afterburner. Overclocking doesn't void the warranty if done safely (no extreme voltages/temperatures).

Also, GTX 560 Ti is way faster than HD 6870. It should not bottleneck.
Score
0
Related resources
May 22, 2012 7:36:36 PM

hellfire24 said:
560TI>6870.if you can afford then go with MSi twinfrozer gtx 560 ti.

Thanks, it's a little more than i was planning but after reading about issues with xfire i'm thinking of going for a more powerful single card. The 560 demos on youtube look amazing anyway. :) 
Score
0
May 22, 2012 7:41:20 PM

Sunius said:
All the cards can be overclocked using MSI afterburner. Overclocking doesn't void the warranty if done safely (no extreme voltages/temperatures).

Also, GTX 560 Ti is way faster than HD 6870. It should not bottleneck.

Thanks. I thought the CPU could be a bottleneck with more demanding games, some recommend a quad or six core. I thought a 560 wouls be wastes on my system so thought i'd get a lower card and sli or xfire when i upgrade but those games look so good! :D 
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
May 22, 2012 8:08:38 PM

You should also consider this 6950 for $200 after rebate: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I have that card, and with its cooler, it overclocks pretty well, achieving more like 6970 performance even without unlocking extra shaders or messing with the BIOS. At stock speeds, it will be sometimes faster, sometimes slower than a 560 Ti: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/510?vs=547 But you probably have a bit more thermal headroom to play with, which should beat out a 560 Ti. And you get 2GB of RAM instead of 1GB, which will help with higher-resolution gaming or future titles. It also uses less power under load, though of course that's less true if you OC it more.

Of course, I don't know how much you're willing to spend here! But $200 post-rebate is a great price for a 6950.
Score
0
a c 185 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
May 22, 2012 9:41:57 PM

go with MSi twinfrozer gtx 560 ti. It runs circles around the 6870
Score
0
May 22, 2012 9:54:50 PM

motorneuron said:
You should also consider this 6950 for $200 after rebate: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I have that card, and with its cooler, it overclocks pretty well, achieving more like 6970 performance even without unlocking extra shaders or messing with the BIOS. At stock speeds, it will be sometimes faster, sometimes slower than a 560 Ti: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/510?vs=547 But you probably have a bit more thermal headroom to play with, which should beat out a 560 Ti. And you get 2GB of RAM instead of 1GB, which will help with higher-resolution gaming or future titles. It also uses less power under load, though of course that's less true if you OC it more.

Of course, I don't know how much you're willing to spend here! But $200 post-rebate is a great price for a 6950.

Thanks! I'm in the UK but a 6950 is about £150, i thought they'd be more so definitely another one to check out. FPS aside though, the NVidia demos seem to look better graphically though it's hard to tell from youtube vids. Just seem better detailed and more immersive.

I need to look at noise when idle as well as i use my system for audio but i can just disable the gpu when necessary. Fwiw i'm not too bothered about a few percent in benchmarks and i'm not a hardcore gamer but after watching the youtube vids of games i'm interested in it seems so worth going for something better, just not sure i will fully exploit a higher spec card.
Score
0
May 22, 2012 10:20:22 PM

Quote:
what's the rest of the system specs.?
does you Phenom II X2 560BE unlock into a quad or you do not know because of motherboard.?
what games you wanna plan and at what resolution.?
upgrade plans.?

Asus m5a78l-m le, 4gb Corsair ram, 500gb seagate barracuda hd. I can unlock the cores but they are not stable. :( 

Games

Prototype/2
Nexiuz
Witcher 2
Mafia 2
Skyrim
Batman Arkham Asylum/City
Crysis 2

And probably more i haven't discovered yet! :) 

Resolution: 1600x900/1440x900 until i get some larger monitors, probably two 24".

I was originally just gonna get a 6850 for multi monitor support and some gaming with a decent spec for some older games and 3d modelling and video editing but there aint much space on my mobo and i'll have to take a pci card out to install a full height gpu. Also with the more powerful ones i think cooling could be an issue. Now i think i may as well go for the best single card i can as long as my system can handle it.

Score
0
May 22, 2012 10:39:42 PM

bigcyco1 said:
go with MSi twinfrozer gtx 560 ti. It runs circles around the 6870

Thanks. It looks good but then the 6950 was thrown into the equation. £160 is about the max i can go anyway, £200 is pushing it a bit for the amount of gaming i'll probably do. :ouch: 
Score
0
May 22, 2012 10:46:51 PM

Quote:
did you try unlocking cores and then bump the voltage just a tweak.?

I did, tried a few tweaks and couldn't get it stable, always bsods. I thought it could be the cheap psu i put in but i had the same issue with the antec psu i bought recently. :pfff: 

Score
0
May 22, 2012 11:21:40 PM

Yeah that's what i thought. I would get the 6870 and crossfire when i upgrade as i know it can handle three 42" screens at 1080P. I do some music and mulitrack arrangements can take up some real estate but it's possible to spread sections across multiple screens hence the 6870.

My monitors are vga and dvi until i upgrade. Will probably go 1080P, either dual 24" or one 42". Not sure when atm as i haven't really researched it but soon. Cheers.
Score
0
May 23, 2012 1:52:30 AM

Couldn't edit my message but there are some 560s and 6950s on ebay for around £160, there's a Palit 448 core for £150 but i can get an 6950 for around £140 which can be unlocked and i can crossfire it with an nvidia gtx 260 for PhysX when i upgrade. :D 

Btw i've got an aluminium lian li case which keeps pretty cool on it's own but no case fans as i need to keep it quiet. Would heat be an issue with a 6950? Thanks for all the replies so far, really helped!
Score
0
May 23, 2012 9:05:01 PM

Quote:
I'd take the -448 personally.

Thanks. I found it for £140 on ebay so i'll probably get that. But what about the 2gb 6950 for future gaming and monitor support at higher resolutions? I'm leaning towards the 560 partly for the PhysX and familiarity with NVidia, but is there a difference in the graphic detail between AMD and NVidia in games besides PhysX or does it just come down to memory, frame rates and tesselation?! Cheers.
Score
0
a c 291 U Graphics card
May 23, 2012 9:06:44 PM

Just memory and frame rates. And physx (AMD doesn't have it). Though frame rates is primary thing, while memory is secondary.

HD 6950 isn't faster than GTX 560 Ti 448, actually it's slower.
Score
0
May 23, 2012 11:55:41 PM

Sunius said:
Just memory and frame rates. And physx (AMD doesn't have it). Though frame rates is primary thing, while memory is secondary.

HD 6950 isn't faster than GTX 560 Ti 448, actually it's slower.

Thanks. I might have been comparing the 560 ti benchmarks. The Palit seems to tick the boxes anyway as far as cooling and quiet operation is concerned and from what i've read is better for overclocking but it looks like i won't need to do much of that until games become more demanding. :) 
Score
0
May 24, 2012 2:42:07 AM

Quote:
GTX 560-Ti 448 is indeed faster and stronger than the HD 6950
I agree..

Up until i posted here i thought that AMD dominated the GPU market but i've learned a lot in the past few days. But is it true that amd gpus are more 'compatible' with amd cpus, NVidia=Intel? Or is that to do with cpu bottlenecking/limitations?
Score
0
May 24, 2012 6:47:06 AM

Quote:
no it's not true and there is a lot to where your going with this.

a few years ago AMD motherboard stop enabling (lost SLi licensing) SLi on like 90% of their boards.
they did have them before or you had to look for an AMD board with nVidia (nForce) chipset.
now AMD once again has enabled SLi in their latest chipset 970 and 990.
only a few of the 970 but like all 990 are SLi enabled.
so SLi runs fine and and single GPU can run on any motherboard Intel or AMD whether it's Radeon or nVidia.

now also some motherboard AMD with earlier chipsets like the 880G for example.
it has an HD4250 for IGP
you can then add an HD Radeon GPU and it can run Hybrid CF-X, that option is not available with an HD Radeon IGP and nVidia GPU.
Yeah makes perfect sense thanks. I just read a couple of times that amd gpus ran better with amd cpus and likewise Intel with Nvidia. For example an asus amd 6870 would perform better with an asus amd mobo but nvidia gpus perform better with intel cause the cpus are more powerful or something like that.

I didn't know amd used nvidia, I thought all their igps were amd so that could be good for the next build. I can't xfire on the current motherboard anyway so all in all I think the 560 is the card to get. Thanks again for all your replies!
Score
0
May 24, 2012 6:48:37 AM

Quote:
no it's not true and there is a lot to where your going with this.

a few years ago AMD motherboard stop enabling (lost SLi licensing) SLi on like 90% of their boards.
they did have them before or you had to look for an AMD board with nVidia (nForce) chipset.
now AMD once again has enabled SLi in their latest chipset 970 and 990.
only a few of the 970 but like all 990 are SLi enabled.
so SLi runs fine and and single GPU can run on any motherboard Intel or AMD whether it's Radeon or nVidia.

now also some motherboard AMD with earlier chipsets like the 880G for example.
it has an HD4250 for IGP
you can then add an HD Radeon GPU and it can run Hybrid CF-X, that option is not available with an HD Radeon IGP and nVidia GPU.
Yeah makes perfect sense thanks. I just read a couple of times that amd gpus ran better with amd cpus and likewise Intel with Nvidia. For example an asus amd 6870 would perform better with an asus amd mobo but nvidia gpus perform better with intel cause the cpus are more powerful or something like that.

I didn't know amd used nvidia, I thought all their igps were amd so that could be good for the next build. I can't xfire on the current motherboard anyway so all in all I think the 560 is the card to get. Thanks again for all your replies!
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
May 24, 2012 7:47:12 AM

Quote:
GTX 560-Ti 448 is indeed faster and stronger than the HD 6950
I agree..


My Twin Frozr III 6950 2GB would suggest otherwise. In many games.

@ rest of thread

In my personal opinion based on facts and 1st hand experience ; for the money, performance, and overall better gameplay the 68xx/6950 1GB and 560/560ti were pretty much trading blow for blow give or take 5fps here or there. Price wise the 68xx always had the advantage, because they were always several dollars cheaper. With the 560ti 448/570/580 and 6950 2GB/6970 in the major games of their time before expiring the 6950 like mine and 6970 like my brothers had clear parrallel performance with the 580s/70s/60s because of several reason, vsync being a major one and price another. When I am pulling better frames with my cards vs friends with two 580s and watching them run around with 1xx fps and 70C+ temps while I am running 60fps vsync 55C max overclock/max voltage on a cool day (59C during regular texas afternoon).

HOWEVER, with my EVGA 670 everything runs perfectly with vsync and beats the living hell out of all of the below mentioned cards and for same price as some of them were.

What I think would be best, is to just save your money and get a real gpu :)  its a much better investment in the long run.
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
May 24, 2012 11:59:11 AM

Quote:
^
GTX 560-Ti 448 = FTW..


Yes but can it blend? :3
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
May 24, 2012 12:03:22 PM

^no you need blender or youtube!
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
May 24, 2012 12:11:33 PM

^yeah man i see such comments on youtube.most irritating comments on youtube are-
1-thumbs up if you are watching in xxxx
2-no i am watching it in xxxx on my istone
3-will it blend and mean while in COD or africa(it's a tie for third place)
what's your?
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
May 24, 2012 12:19:41 PM

LOL!
Score
0
May 24, 2012 6:41:14 PM

akamrcrack said:
My Twin Frozr III 6950 2GB would suggest otherwise. In many games.

@ rest of thread

In my personal opinion based on facts and 1st hand experience ; for the money, performance, and overall better gameplay the 68xx/6950 1GB and 560/560ti were pretty much trading blow for blow give or take 5fps here or there. Price wise the 68xx always had the advantage, because they were always several dollars cheaper. With the 560ti 448/570/580 and 6950 2GB/6970 in the major games of their time before expiring the 6950 like mine and 6970 like my brothers had clear parrallel performance with the 580s/70s/60s because of several reason, vsync being a major one and price another. When I am pulling better frames with my cards vs friends with two 580s and watching them run around with 1xx fps and 70C+ temps while I am running 60fps vsync 55C max overclock/max voltage on a cool day (59C during regular texas afternoon).

HOWEVER, with my EVGA 670 everything runs perfectly with vsync and beats the living hell out of all of the below mentioned cards and for same price as some of them were.

What I think would be best, is to just save your money and get a real gpu :)  its a much better investment in the long run.

Are you suggesting i save for the EVGA 670? :o 

The 560ti and 6970 seem to have the performance and specs i need. £300+ is more than i can justify and i fear i'll never leave the house or get any music done with a gpu like that. :lol: 

Eeh, more research to do, if the 6950 can run cooler for the same performance and is consequently quieter with a lower power draw it's better but i'll lose the PhysX so there will be compromises either way i guess. I have read that NVidia gpus run hotter and use more power but as i understand it has more overclocking potential. Heat is a concern cause of the way my case is laid out; the card would go between a pci/pci-e card so not a lot of room for air to circulate. Then again, i'll use the igp when i need quiet and can take the side off the case when gaming.

The other thing i need to consider is the warranty as i just read that EVGA cover it if it dies from oc'ing but it's £200 then there is the 7850... :sweat: 
Score
0
a c 291 U Graphics card
May 24, 2012 6:48:04 PM

Just because they say Nvidia cards run hotter, it doesn't mean they automatically overheat. HD 6950 draws like 10 watts less than GTX 560 Ti, that's around 4%!
Score
0
May 24, 2012 6:52:20 PM

Sunius said:
Just because they say Nvidia cards run hotter, it doesn't mean they automatically overheat. HD 6950 draws like 10 watts less than GTX 560 Ti, that's around 4%!

Ok thanks.
Score
0
May 24, 2012 7:18:13 PM

Quote:
stay with what you have decided on already and stop over thinking.
it just leads to headaches.
so either save up or prepare to spend more money or just get the GTX 560 Ti - 448.
it is a solid for the price.
and nVidia doesn't necessarily run hotter, it's more about the design of the card as well.
reference vs non-reference..

and your waddling back and forth makes you look like a noobie.
;) 

I am a noob when it comes to gpus. :whistle: 

Nah, i haven't gamed in a while so i'm well out of touch, have been using laptops with igps and this recent build was the first i'd done in a while. I'm pretty set on the Palit Gtx anyway. I assume killing gpus from oc'ing is not a common occurrence? I'll go carefully whatever i do but i think i'll have plenty of headroom for games before i have to start messing with clocks and voltages. :) 
Score
0
a c 291 U Graphics card
May 24, 2012 7:22:50 PM

It's pretty rare to kill a GPU when OCing.
Score
0
May 24, 2012 10:48:56 PM

Sunius said:
It's pretty rare to kill a GPU when OCing.

:wahoo: 
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
May 25, 2012 1:52:33 AM

Ocing a card is as simple as setting fan speed to decent amount (60% - 80% or whatever is bareable) starting with stock voltage, bumping core 5mhz then testing it with benchmarks or games. Raise 5mhz, test again.

Repeat till you crash/see artifacts then drop 5mhz and play for a while and see if it crashes. If it doesn't you are gold and your cap for that voltage is some where in that range.

Reset card to default after finding max core/shader oc. Then start raising your memory in the same process.

Once you find the max for both cards you can set your core to max and then start raising your mem (gratiously) to its max, testing on the way till you find the right combo.

Use MSI Afterburner or EVGA Percision's On Screen Display feature to view your temps/fps/etc in game while you test.

My cards and others do best at 60% to 70% with least noise and best impact so aim for that.

If your temps are too high raise it higher and see if they drop. If there is no or a very small drop in temps, consider upgrading your cooling for the case/buying a case with better airflow/improving cable management.

Best of luck for high oc! :) 
Score
0
May 25, 2012 4:43:03 AM

Quote:
common sense when overclocking and look for 'artifacts' and/or stuttering and you attempted to clock to high, drop it back down.

hint:
when it starts to whine and pop, you've gone too far
:lol: 

Good to know! :lol: 

Just covering the deets with all my questions. Anyway i'll update when i get the GPU. Thanks again y'all for the help. :) 
Score
0
May 25, 2012 1:45:30 PM

akamrcrack said:
Ocing a card is as simple as setting fan speed to decent amount (60% - 80% or whatever is bareable) starting with stock voltage, bumping core 5mhz then testing it with benchmarks or games. Raise 5mhz, test again.

Repeat till you crash/see artifacts then drop 5mhz and play for a while and see if it crashes. If it doesn't you are gold and your cap for that voltage is some where in that range.

Reset card to default after finding max core/shader oc. Then start raising your memory in the same process.

Once you find the max for both cards you can set your core to max and then start raising your mem (gratiously) to its max, testing on the way till you find the right combo.

Use MSI Afterburner or EVGA Percision's On Screen Display feature to view your temps/fps/etc in game while you test.

My cards and others do best at 60% to 70% with least noise and best impact so aim for that.

If your temps are too high raise it higher and see if they drop. If there is no or a very small drop in temps, consider upgrading your cooling for the case/buying a case with better airflow/improving cable management.

Best of luck for high oc! :) 

Thanks, i'll tag this so i can refer to it when i need to. I definitely need a new case as the lian li is quite old and slot covers are missing or parts need replacing. Something with better air flow definitely.

I'll set profiles up for gaming and such and oc as needed. I've been checking my system for any issues and in the process found some doozy's! Had to install Windows onto my backup drive just to gain access to my main drives files so i can back them up to reinstall Windows but i can't access the partition! :pfff: 
Score
0
May 31, 2012 1:25:13 AM

Just got my system back up and running in the past few days. I've set up a dual boot for games and audio to keep things seperate and the system is now running like a well oiled machine lol but before i go ahead and order the 560 ti i just wanted to check that my cpu or psu won't be a bottleneck with current games.

There's also a 6950 for around the same which i've read has a good chance of unlocking to a 6970 although it's apparently risky.

It's down to these two anyway, i will buy one or the other. The 448 has the edge with the PhysX but the 2gb 6950 is more future proof. Otherwise they seem to be quite close according to various benchmarks.
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
May 31, 2012 1:49:52 AM

Pretty much its a toss up between the two cards. My two 6950 2GB (unlockable) are nice and perform great, I haven't seen or know of anyone owning a 448 core 560ti but I am pretty sure they are close to equal in performance.

Really what it comes down to is which card can you afford to spend the extra on a better style cooler/what cards are in stock/what your max budget is.

Like the ASUS DCII or MSI Twin Frozr design coolers ^_^
Score
0

Best solution

May 31, 2012 2:00:52 AM

Radeon 7850 > 560 Ti

As far as I know, it costs less as well. Get the Sapphire version though, the fans are great on it.
Share
a c 99 U Graphics card
May 31, 2012 2:15:47 AM

MSI 560 Ti is the clear winner from your 3 choices.
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
May 31, 2012 4:51:47 AM

7850>560ti.
Score
0
May 31, 2012 7:27:39 AM

Quote:
-448 is my choice.

Yeah unless there's a compelling reason to buy the 6950 it's the 448. :) 
Score
0
May 31, 2012 8:01:57 AM

akamrcrack said:
Pretty much its a toss up between the two cards. My two 6950 2GB (unlockable) are nice and perform great, I haven't seen or know of anyone owning a 448 core 560ti but I am pretty sure they are close to equal in performance.

Really what it comes down to is which card can you afford to spend the extra on a better style cooler/what cards are in stock/what your max budget is.

Like the ASUS DCII or MSI Twin Frozr design coolers ^_^

Yeah the Palit doesn't look to have a great cooler which has got me a bit concerned. I'm looking at older gen or lower cards with better coolers cause £180-200 is pushing it for me. There are a couple of 448s and 6950s for around £140 but they sell elsewhere for £200 so i'm assuming they're good gpus and not priced down cause they have poor cooling.

I'd rather get a lower card with better cooling as i could oc it anyway if the coolers on the HIS and Palit gpus are gonna be a problem when oc'ing. Is something like an Asus 560 ti with Direct CU worthy of consideration or a superclocked evga 560?
Score
0
May 31, 2012 8:18:36 AM

Xerophos said:
Radeon 7850 > 560 Ti

As far as I know, it costs less as well. Get the Sapphire version though, the fans are great on it.

Powercooler 7850 is around £160. But will my system be able to handle it?! A quick search says maybe; it's much more efficient and runs cooler but oc's much better than the 560 so do we have a winner?!? :D 

Thanks again for all your replies. :) 
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
May 31, 2012 8:36:17 AM

this is my final answer,7850 is best bang for in your case.
pros-
performs better than a 570 with little OC
less power consumption and cooler operations
more overclocking potential then 5xx
over all a great valure product.
con-
non
mediocre-
a little bit expensive than 560 but worth every penny!
good luck with your choice.
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
May 31, 2012 11:04:11 AM

i agree 570 overclocks well(i have seen 850w mhz on a MSi TFIII 570)but not as good as 7xxx and 6xx cards(hey you know the reason)
yeah i agree that TFIII is very good cooler.
you can crank it but not more than 7850(no offence)
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
May 31, 2012 11:13:30 AM

yeah i agree that 7870 has some really noticeable performance boost over 7850(it performs neck to neck with 580),
BTW it's personal preference ;) 
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
May 31, 2012 11:41:39 AM

please answer my question-
who is OEM of "fractal design newton r2 1000w" ?
i can't really,my brother told me that it is a re branded "ATNG"(i don't remember properly LOL)
can you help please?
Score
0
a c 99 U Graphics card
May 31, 2012 11:44:52 AM

Fractal Design is the manufacturer that makes their own power supply unit called the Newton R2. It is a 1000 watt power supply unit.
Score
0
a c 99 U Graphics card
May 31, 2012 11:48:13 AM

Wow, I didn't even know of that link. Nice malmental
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
May 31, 2012 11:57:09 AM

^LOL,i think i will improve as i grow up :) 
Score
0
a b U Graphics card
May 31, 2012 12:01:46 PM

^thanks and that's called experience ;) 
Score
0
!