WoW: How do OTHER mmogs handle kill stealing and ninja loo..

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

World of Warcraft is my first MMOG. I'd been aware of the genre for a
long time, but was wary due to all the horror stories I'd heard about
people losing experience and loot to other players (as well as other
things, but that's for another post).

I picked WoW for two main reasons. First, I saw screenshots of players
on gryphons and that just looked so damn cool. Second, Blizzard made
it very clear in interviews that they were working to eliminate kill
stealing and ninja looting.

The way it works in WoW is this: If a solo player is the first to
attack a mob, that player gets full experience and exclusive access to
loot once the mob dies, even if other people rush in to help. If
grouped, the rule extends to nearby party members- however XP is
distributed based on player level, and non-quest loot is distributed
based on group loot rules. Regardless, no one outside the group gets
any loot or XP. The only exception with mobs is skinning- ANYONE can
skin a corpse, as long as it's been looted first.

So my question is this: How do other games handle these things? And
more specifically, which games allow you to swipe XP and loot off of
other players (so that I might avoid those games) and which others
protect players like WoW does (so that I might consider them for the
future)?

Thanks!
21 answers Last reply
More about mmogs handle kill stealing ninja
  1. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    sanjian wrote:

    > That's true for the first generation of MMORPGs, generally. With EQ2, they
    > locked the encounter. Once you engaged an enemy, nobody else could land a
    > hit or a heal unless you /yelled for help. If you did that, however, all XP
    > went away (as well as loot, IIRC).

    You mean you can't even help someone in trouble until they /yell for
    it? That's awful, if true! I save fellow adventurers all the time-
    always trying to pick a mob they've already tapped so as not to steal
    their rewards.
  2. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    Josh Mayfield wrote:
    > World of Warcraft is my first MMOG. I'd been aware of the genre for a
    > long time, but was wary due to all the horror stories I'd heard about
    > people losing experience and loot to other players (as well as other
    > things, but that's for another post).
    >
    > I picked WoW for two main reasons. First, I saw screenshots of
    > players on gryphons and that just looked so damn cool. Second,
    > Blizzard made it very clear in interviews that they were working to
    > eliminate kill stealing and ninja looting.
    >
    > The way it works in WoW is this: If a solo player is the first to
    > attack a mob, that player gets full experience and exclusive access to
    > loot once the mob dies, even if other people rush in to help. If
    > grouped, the rule extends to nearby party members- however XP is
    > distributed based on player level, and non-quest loot is distributed
    > based on group loot rules. Regardless, no one outside the group gets
    > any loot or XP. The only exception with mobs is skinning- ANYONE can
    > skin a corpse, as long as it's been looted first.
    >
    > So my question is this: How do other games handle these things? And
    > more specifically, which games allow you to swipe XP and loot off of
    > other players (so that I might avoid those games) and which others
    > protect players like WoW does (so that I might consider them for the
    > future)?
    >
    > Thanks!

    Well, CoH handles the problem by not having any loot to steal, and awarding
    experience based on a percentage of damage done, so long as the mobs aren't
    out of the attacker's level range, IIRC.

    EQ2 just locks everything down depending on who hits first. That made for a
    lot of mob camping when the game was new, but I've recently started playing
    again and don't find that to be much of a problem. And of course, ninja
    looting in their system just can't happen.

    Guild Wars isn't really a MMORPG, but it's a cousin I suppose. Anyway, all
    the loot/mobs drops in instances, so the only folks with a shot at any of it
    are those in your group. No camping, no ninja looting or kill stealing at
    all to worry about the way GW does things. Overall though, it's not that
    much fun.

    --
    chainbreaker
  3. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    > The way it works in WoW is this: If a solo player is the first to
    > attack a mob, that player gets full experience and exclusive access to
    > loot once the mob dies, even if other people rush in to help. If
    > grouped, the rule extends to nearby party members- however XP is
    > distributed based on player level, and non-quest loot is distributed
    > based on group loot rules. Regardless, no one outside the group gets
    > any loot or XP. The only exception with mobs is skinning- ANYONE can
    > skin a corpse, as long as it's been looted first.
    >
    > So my question is this: How do other games handle these things? And
    > more specifically, which games allow you to swipe XP and loot off of
    > other players (so that I might avoid those games) and which others
    > protect players like WoW does (so that I might consider them for the
    > future)?
    >
    > Thanks!
    >

    In EQ, nothing keeps you from stealing someone's kill, if you can do more
    damage you get the kill credit. Looting, you then have aprox. 2 minutes to
    loot the corpse, after 2 minutes anyone can loot the corpse. Group looting
    anyone can grab anything off the corpse, though there is a message presented
    to the whole party what they took (used to not do this), and on raid mobs
    GM's have been known to fix ninja looting issues. Also in EQ only one person
    can loot at a time, effectively "locking" the corpse. DAOC anyone can kill
    steal again, but looting is limited to the killer and thier group, no one
    else can pick up the stuff.
    The only thing I wish WoW did was unlock the corpses for anyone in the party
    after 1 minute (30 seconds?) and for anyone after 2 minutes, so skinners
    could skin stuff unlooted.
  4. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    orad wrote:

    >> So my question is this: How do other games handle these things? And
    >> more specifically, which games allow you to swipe XP and loot off of
    >> other players (so that I might avoid those games) and which others
    >> protect players like WoW does (so that I might consider them for the
    >> future)?
    >>
    >> Thanks!
    >>
    >
    > In EQ, nothing keeps you from stealing someone's kill, if you can do
    > more damage you get the kill credit. Looting, you then have aprox. 2
    > minutes to loot the corpse, after 2 minutes anyone can loot the
    > corpse. Group looting anyone can grab anything off the corpse, though
    > there is a message presented to the whole party what they took (used
    > to not do this), and on raid mobs GM's have been known to fix ninja
    > looting issues. Also in EQ only one person can loot at a time,
    > effectively "locking" the corpse. DAOC anyone can kill steal again,
    > but looting is limited to the killer and thier group, no one else can
    > pick up the stuff.

    That's true for the first generation of MMORPGs, generally. With EQ2, they
    locked the encounter. Once you engaged an enemy, nobody else could land a
    hit or a heal unless you /yelled for help. If you did that, however, all XP
    went away (as well as loot, IIRC).
  5. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    In EVE Online they have a generally more harsh environment. There is
    no safe places; anyone can take anything and kill anyone. It's pvp
    everywhere even between grouped people and if you are killed by a
    player they can loot you for your equiped belongings.

    This means that if a group member ninja loots or behaves badly the
    rest of the group just do what's natural. Kill the offender and
    distribute his stuff between themselves.

    I really like this approach as it becomes self regulating; you just
    don't betray your team.
  6. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    Reminds me of hanging out in the old Felucca years and years ago with a few
    reds. What you kill you keep.


    "Josh Mayfield" <ultibloo-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1118351320.944264.246740@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > World of Warcraft is my first MMOG. I'd been aware of the genre for a
    > long time, but was wary due to all the horror stories I'd heard about
    > people losing experience and loot to other players (as well as other
    > things, but that's for another post).
    >
    > I picked WoW for two main reasons. First, I saw screenshots of players
    > on gryphons and that just looked so damn cool. Second, Blizzard made
    > it very clear in interviews that they were working to eliminate kill
    > stealing and ninja looting.
    >
    > The way it works in WoW is this: If a solo player is the first to
    > attack a mob, that player gets full experience and exclusive access to
    > loot once the mob dies, even if other people rush in to help. If
    > grouped, the rule extends to nearby party members- however XP is
    > distributed based on player level, and non-quest loot is distributed
    > based on group loot rules. Regardless, no one outside the group gets
    > any loot or XP. The only exception with mobs is skinning- ANYONE can
    > skin a corpse, as long as it's been looted first.
    >
    > So my question is this: How do other games handle these things? And
    > more specifically, which games allow you to swipe XP and loot off of
    > other players (so that I might avoid those games) and which others
    > protect players like WoW does (so that I might consider them for the
    > future)?
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
  7. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    >Well, CoH handles the problem by not having any loot to steal, and awarding
    >experience based on a percentage of damage done, so long as the mobs aren't
    >out of the attacker's level range, IIRC.

    Well there's no loot in the traditional mmorpg sense but you get
    enhancements, influence (COH name for money) and inspirations from
    mobs. These automatically get distributed around the team (not sure of
    the exact rules). Exp isn't just based on damage. Since, as a healer
    I've done entire missions without attacking anything and I still get
    exp each time a mob dies. The most noticeable factor is the level of
    the mob compared to you. Basically the bigger the gap the more exp you
    get.
  8. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    >>>
    You mean you can't even help someone in trouble until they /yell for
    it? That's awful, if true! I save fellow adventurers all the time-
    always trying to pick a mob they've already tapped so as not to steal
    their rewards
    >>>
    I actually prefer it that way. In WoW I think it's stupid that I touch
    a mob for 1 damage, then someone destroys the mob and I get all the
    experience for that. It's the perfect powerleveling setting.
    If you attack a mob you should be confident that you can kill it, or at
    least have a planned escape route.
    I remember when I first started WoW and I attacked something, and
    suddenly someone started whacking my mob I was like 'Hey! that's my
    mob' lol. I didn't know I would get all the exp, but after I learned
    that, I still didn't want people helping. I play the game for the
    thrill, not to be hand-lead by others.
  9. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    >>>
    Well there's no loot in the traditional mmorpg sense but you get
    enhancements, influence (COH name for money) and inspirations from
    mobs. These automatically get distributed around the team (not sure of
    the exact rules). Exp isn't just based on damage. Since, as a healer
    I've done entire missions without attacking anything and I still get
    exp each time a mob dies. The most noticeable factor is the level of
    the mob compared to you. Basically the bigger the gap the more exp you
    get.
    >>>
    Well that's because you're in a group. When in a group you get equal
    share of exp.
    He was talking about out of group. If you're alone and attack
    something and do 60 damage, and another person attacks it too and does
    40 damage, you get 60% of exp and they get 40%. It's rather fair, and
    I like it more than the 'all or nothing' approach of WoW or the 'locked
    encounter' of EQ2
  10. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.games.warcraft.]
    On 2005-06-09, Josh Mayfield <ultibloo-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > World of Warcraft is my first MMOG. I'd been aware of the genre for a
    > long time, but was wary due to all the horror stories I'd heard about
    > people losing experience and loot to other players (as well as other
    > things, but that's for another post).
    >
    > I picked WoW for two main reasons. First, I saw screenshots of players
    > on gryphons and that just looked so damn cool. Second, Blizzard made
    > it very clear in interviews that they were working to eliminate kill
    > stealing and ninja looting.

    stealing and ninja looting aren't as big of a problem as you
    think. whiners just make a big deal out of it.
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:39:00 -0500, shadows <shadows@whitefang.com>
    dared speak in front of ME:

    >["Followup-To:" header set to alt.games.warcraft.]
    >On 2005-06-09, Josh Mayfield <ultibloo-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >> World of Warcraft is my first MMOG. I'd been aware of the genre for a
    >> long time, but was wary due to all the horror stories I'd heard about
    >> people losing experience and loot to other players (as well as other
    >> things, but that's for another post).
    >>
    >> I picked WoW for two main reasons. First, I saw screenshots of players
    >> on gryphons and that just looked so damn cool. Second, Blizzard made
    >> it very clear in interviews that they were working to eliminate kill
    >> stealing and ninja looting.
    >
    >stealing and ninja looting aren't as big of a problem as you
    >think. whiners just make a big deal out of it.

    Spoken like a man who enjoys being a killthief and ninja looter.

    --
    Address no longer works.
    try removing all numbers from
    gafgirl1@2allstream3.net

    --
    Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
    ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
    Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access
  12. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    <wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1118409509.713017.154000@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
    >>>>
    > You mean you can't even help someone in trouble until they /yell for
    > it? That's awful, if true! I save fellow adventurers all the time-
    > always trying to pick a mob they've already tapped so as not to steal
    > their rewards
    >>>>
    > I actually prefer it that way. In WoW I think it's stupid that I touch
    > a mob for 1 damage, then someone destroys the mob and I get all the
    > experience for that. It's the perfect powerleveling setting.

    No, if the person who destroys the mob is much higher level, then the tagger
    gets very little xp. (and the destroyer stilll gets 0)
  13. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    >That works best in a game where death matters. Alas, in WoW, you're more likely just to be >bitched at for throttling the flow of XP.

    After playing a healer in every MMO I played, I finally took a break
    from healing and groups so I have no direct healing experience in WoW.
    I'm playing an undead Warlock and mostly going solo.
  14. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    "Lorad" <jeff_nospam@hotmail.come> wrote:

    >The only thing I wish WoW did was unlock the corpses for anyone in the party
    >after 1 minute (30 seconds?) and for anyone after 2 minutes, so skinners
    >could skin stuff unlooted.

    I wish that, too. I'm a bona fide loot whore, and it makes my teeth
    itch to see corpses sitting around unlooted. Considering how tight
    money is in this game, I'm not too proud to pick up copper-value loot
    if I could.


    --
    Exodus 22:18 can kiss my pagan ass
    www.lokari.net
  15. Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    shadows wrote:
    > ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.games.warcraft.]
    > On 2005-06-09, Josh Mayfield <ultibloo-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >> World of Warcraft is my first MMOG. I'd been aware of the genre for
    >> a long time, but was wary due to all the horror stories I'd heard
    >> about people losing experience and loot to other players (as well as
    >> other things, but that's for another post).
    >>
    >> I picked WoW for two main reasons. First, I saw screenshots of
    >> players on gryphons and that just looked so damn cool. Second,
    >> Blizzard made it very clear in interviews that they were working to
    >> eliminate kill stealing and ninja looting.
    >
    > stealing and ninja looting aren't as big of a problem as you
    > think. whiners just make a big deal out of it.

    If you mean that as in they're not that commonplace, sure. If you mean it
    as in not something worth complaining about, you've got alot of explaining
    to do.
  16. Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:39:00 -0500, shadows <shadows@whitefang.com>
    wrotC:DRIVE_E

    >stealing and ninja looting aren't as big of a problem as you
    >think. whiners just make a big deal out of it.

    Generally speaking, the only folks who say that are those who do it...
    *----------------------------------------------------*
    Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
    "I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
    once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
    http://www.mrlizard.com
  17. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    >I wish that, too. I'm a bona fide loot whore, and it makes my teeth itch to see corpses sitting around >unlooted. Considering how tight money is in this game, I'm not too proud to pick up copper-value >loot if I could.

    I totally agree, I see nothing wrong with picking up abandoned,
    unclaimed loot. I used to build my initial stake in UO and old EQ by
    risking higher level areas to scrounge loot that was left on the
    ground, I just made sure that it was unwanted by the person who had the
    legitimate claim
  18. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    In article <1118351320.944264.246740@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
    "Josh Mayfield" <ultibloo-usenet@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > So my question is this: How do other games handle these things? And
    > more specifically, which games allow you to swipe XP and loot off of
    > other players (so that I might avoid those games) and which others
    > protect players like WoW does (so that I might consider them for the
    > future)?

    (I haven't played some of these in a while, so details might be wrong.
    I'll also answer some questions you didn't ask).

    In EQ1, whoever does the most damage gets the credit for the kill and
    gets looting rights. So, you can blatantly kill steal. If someone
    helps you with the fight in a way that does not cause damage (buffing
    you, healing you, slowing the mob), there is no risk that they will kill
    steal.

    In DAoC, experience for a kill is split among people. So, if you and I
    both run up to the same mob and start whacking away, we'll each get
    about half of the experience. If someone heals you during a fight, they
    will take a little bit of the experience.

    In EQ2, once a fight starts, it is "locked". No one else can damage the
    mob, get credit for the kill, OR HELP YOU. (This was one of the reasons
    I quite EQ2. If I'm playing a class that has buffing or healing, and
    I'm running along and see someone in trouble, I want to be able to help
    them, and save the day. In EQ2, they can't be helped unless they
    abandon the fight. They can then be helped, but no one can get credit
    for the kill then. So, basically, help is limited to helping someone
    who has given up stay alive. You can't help them *win*).


    --
    --Tim Smith
  19. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    In article <1118409509.713017.154000@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
    wolfing1@yahoo.com wrote:
    > I actually prefer it that way. In WoW I think it's stupid that I touch
    > a mob for 1 damage, then someone destroys the mob and I get all the
    > experience for that. It's the perfect powerleveling setting.

    If they are high enough level to destroy the mob, you won't get
    experience. WoW looks at the level difference between the players (and
    I think it also takes into account the mob level compared to the player
    who hit first), and reduces the experience dramatically in blatant
    powerleveling settings.

    --
    --Tim Smith
  20. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    "Alex Mars" <demiurge@alexmars.com> wrote:

    >I used to build my initial stake in UO and old EQ by
    >risking higher level areas to scrounge loot that was left on the
    >ground, I just made sure that it was unwanted by the person who
    >had the legitimate claim

    Ditto. And making sure it was ok was easy with that two minute
    timeout. Anyone who hadn't looted in that time (except, obviously,
    raid and boss situations) didn't want it.

    I used to run my newbie characters from Freeport down to the desert of
    Ro, where all the high levels were constantly racing around killing
    everything to get some special sand giant to spawn, and nothing was
    ever looted.
    --
    Exodus 22:18 can kiss my pagan ass
    www.lokari.net
  21. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

    Tim Smith wrote:
    > In article <1118409509.713017.154000@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
    > wolfing1@yahoo.com wrote:
    >> I actually prefer it that way. In WoW I think it's stupid that I touch
    >> a mob for 1 damage, then someone destroys the mob and I get all the
    >> experience for that. It's the perfect powerleveling setting.
    >
    > If they are high enough level to destroy the mob, you won't get
    > experience. WoW looks at the level difference between the players (and
    > I think it also takes into account the mob level compared to the player
    > who hit first), and reduces the experience dramatically in blatant
    > powerleveling settings.

    I believe that the exact mechanics are that the player/group who tagged
    the mob gets XP based on how much damage they did the mob as a
    percentage. Any player who's not in the tagger's group get nothing,
    regardless of how much damage they did. Players who *are* in the
    tagger's group, and are 'close enough' to the mob all get an equal share
    of the remaining XP. Then a diminishing returns formula is applied based
    on the mob's level relative to the player getting the XP.

    The ideal 'powerlevelling' setup is a lowbie grouped with a level 60.
    However, having done this from time to time myself (typically, twinking
    or being twinked through unpopular instances), the XP returns are far
    from impressive. The lowbie is only getting half the XP per mob, and
    once you factor in the overhead involved simply in moving between mob to
    mob, the XP rate actually feels about the same as good old-fashioned
    non-elite green-grinding.

    --
    Remove the mess to reply.
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