Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

some questions about grouping/instances

Last response: in Video Games
Share
Anonymous
June 13, 2005 1:55:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

As you might know I am quite new to the game. I just reached lvl18 by doing
the quests in the Rage Fire Chasm. I went in with a pickup group: 1 warrior,
2 druids (the other was lvl14), 1 mage, 1 roque (lvl9!). The other four were
on teamspeak, so it was a bit quite in the party chat. But it worked very
fine, I believe. Looting was great: everyone only rolled on things they
could use. No problems here.

But I came across some other questions:

- If I die within the instance, can I resurrect at the graveyard without
loosing the ability to enter the instance again? As I understand instances,
a maximum number of 5 people can be in it!?

- That was my first experience playing in a 5-people group. It was sometimes
very hard to select the enemy with all the group members around it. There is
the /assist command. But how exactly does it work?

- This instance is a labyrinth when first entering it. No (overview) map
there :(  I saw the yellow spot where the "quest tauren body" was lying but
could figure out, how to get there. Then the group helped me to find that
thing - on another "layer" of the dungeon. These were really nice people.

- An interesting experience was my drop over the ridge into the lava stream
(in bear-form). For a second I saw the breath-bar and thought: great, maybe
I'll find my way out of it. Bang. Dead. Another long body-recovery-run.

- The mage did a great job in pulling the mob. Most of the time he managed
to get only one at the time. How exactly is pulling working? I could hit the
nearest enemy with moonfire to get him to me. But how do I prevent the
activation of the others?

- In the end I experienced something very strange. My character became
slower and slower. There were no enemies around (all dead). Do (near) full
bags determine how fast you can walk?

- And last but not least a kind-of-off-topic-question: In the "social
window" I could enter some information to my character, so my guild mates
know my profession. The quick-help says: Click on the message itself to
change it. Something like that. I clicked with every available mousebutton
with every rhythm I know but I cannot put some information into it... Help?

Thanks for listing/reading, guys :) 

Walt

--
Komdorron - Tauren Druid on Sunstrider
Anonymous
June 13, 2005 1:55:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Dave schrieb:
> Christian Stauffer wrote:
>
> > Even if all people leave the instance, it's still there. As I know, it's
> > supposed to reset when the group disbands, but not even that is working for
> > me. If I want to reset the instance, I have to log out and back in.
>
> Actually you not only need to disband, you also have to change the
> leader of the party to reset. Then it works fine.
>
> Cheers :) 

Or u disband. one of u enter instance, leave instance and invite u all.
(always could be the same! no need to change leader then)
Anonymous
June 13, 2005 2:25:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Walt" <wbecke{nospam]@gmx.at> wrote:

> As you might know I am quite new to the game. I just reached lvl18 by doing
> the quests in the Rage Fire Chasm. I went in with a pickup group: 1 warrior,
> 2 druids (the other was lvl14), 1 mage, 1 roque (lvl9!). The other four were
> on teamspeak, so it was a bit quite in the party chat. But it worked very
> fine, I believe. Looting was great: everyone only rolled on things they
> could use. No problems here.

Congratulations!

> But I came across some other questions:
>
> - If I die within the instance, can I resurrect at the graveyard without
> loosing the ability to enter the instance again?

The instance is "bound" to the party (or more correct: to the party
leader). Some time ago while doing WC, one of our team decided to resurrect
at the XR graveyard and go to TB to trade in quests (!). No problem (well,
besides the social side effects :-).

Even if all people leave the instance, it's still there. As I know, it's
supposed to reset when the group disbands, but not even that is working for
me. If I want to reset the instance, I have to log out and back in.

Having that said, the longer you wait the more likely it gets that the mobs
in the instance respawn.

> As I understand instances,
> a maximum number of 5 people can be in it!?

That's varying for the different instances.

> - That was my first experience playing in a 5-people group. It was sometimes
> very hard to select the enemy with all the group members around it. There is
> the /assist command. But how exactly does it work?

Never used it yet. I guess you will be attacking the same target as the
guy you assist. As I usually player healer or tank, I don't need it (and I
hate automations like that :o ).

> - This instance is a labyrinth when first entering it. No (overview) map
> there :(  I saw the yellow spot where the "quest tauren body" was lying but
> could figure out, how to get there. Then the group helped me to find that
> thing - on another "layer" of the dungeon. These were really nice people.

Get the atlas add-in, it has maps of most instances.

> - An interesting experience was my drop over the ridge into the lava stream
> (in bear-form). For a second I saw the breath-bar and thought: great, maybe
> I'll find my way out of it. Bang. Dead. Another long body-recovery-run.

Molten core light :-)

> - The mage did a great job in pulling the mob. Most of the time he managed
> to get only one at the time. How exactly is pulling working? I could hit the
> nearest enemy with moonfire to get him to me. But how do I prevent the
> activation of the others?

You can't for sure. If there are enemies of the same "faction" nearby, they
will attack too. Same for linked mobs. Pulling the one mob with the least
number of friends around him is 90% of the whole deal.

Letting the mage pull is not the best thing I guess. Mages tend to grab
too much aggro anyway, so it's better to let those pull who can stand the
damage.

> - In the end I experienced something very strange. My character became
> slower and slower. There were no enemies around (all dead). Do (near) full
> bags determine how fast you can walk?

No, that was a bug most likely.

> - And last but not least a kind-of-off-topic-question: In the "social
> window" I could enter some information to my character, so my guild mates
> know my profession. The quick-help says: Click on the message itself to
> change it. Something like that. I clicked with every available mousebutton
> with every rhythm I know but I cannot put some information into it... Help?

I had the same problem with my newly created hunter yesterday. I guess it's
because of the rank (Sash Wearers seem to not be able to enter the message).

> Thanks for listing/reading, guys :) 

Thanks for joining Sunstriders best guild :-)

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (50) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Lonewalker - Striding Tauren (14) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Related resources
June 13, 2005 2:25:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Christian Stauffer wrote:
> "Walt" <wbecke{nospam]@gmx.at> wrote:

<snip>

>> There is
>> the /assist command. But how exactly does it work?
>
>
> Never used it yet. I guess you will be attacking the same target as the
> guy you assist. As I usually player healer or tank, I don't need it (and I
> hate automations like that :o ).

Try this:

1. Click the portrait of the party member you want to assist (or,
faster, use the appropriate key to select the party member)
2. hit the "F" key

Presto! Your target is that party member's target. Very handy for ranged
fighters assisting tanks, for example, especially when the good guys are
crowded around some bad guys.


<snip>
Anonymous
June 13, 2005 2:41:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"mikel" <mikel@evins.net> wrote:

> Christian Stauffer wrote:
>> "Walt" <wbecke{nospam]@gmx.at> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>> There is
>>> the /assist command. But how exactly does it work?
>>
>>
>> Never used it yet. I guess you will be attacking the same target as the
>> guy you assist. As I usually player healer or tank, I don't need it (and I
>> hate automations like that :o ).
>
> Try this:
>
> 1. Click the portrait of the party member you want to assist (or,
> faster, use the appropriate key to select the party member)
> 2. hit the "F" key
>
> Presto! Your target is that party member's target. Very handy for ranged
> fighters assisting tanks, for example, especially when the good guys are
> crowded around some bad guys.

Playing a tank, I wouldn't want people to assist me. Why? I work my ass
of to keep the mobs on me. I can focus on one mob (the one everyone
should be hitting) and keep his aggro even when all damage dealers are
after it, but I can only do a bit damage to all the other mobs to keep
them from attacking the healer. Sometimes I have to do burst damage on
mobs to keep them away from the healer, in that cases I wouldn't want
the damage dealers to also attack this mob. They should still focus on
the "main" mob to take him down.
I think it's good to declare one damage dealer as the main one, having
the others assist him, but the tank shouldn't be assisted. He's the
only one who has to switch between the mobs for aggro holding reasons.

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (50) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Lonewalker - Striding Tauren (14) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
June 13, 2005 2:41:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Christian Stauffer wrote:
> "mikel" <mikel@evins.net> wrote:
>
>> Christian Stauffer wrote:
>>
>>> "Walt" <wbecke{nospam]@gmx.at> wrote:
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> There is
>>>> the /assist command. But how exactly does it work?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Never used it yet. I guess you will be attacking the same target as the
>>> guy you assist. As I usually player healer or tank, I don't need it
>>> (and I
>>> hate automations like that :o ).
>>
>>
>> Try this:
>>
>> 1. Click the portrait of the party member you want to assist (or,
>> faster, use the appropriate key to select the party member)
>> 2. hit the "F" key
>>
>> Presto! Your target is that party member's target. Very handy for
>> ranged fighters assisting tanks, for example, especially when the good
>> guys are crowded around some bad guys.
>
>
> Playing a tank, I wouldn't want people to assist me. Why? I work my ass
> of to keep the mobs on me. I can focus on one mob (the one everyone
> should be hitting) and keep his aggro even when all damage dealers are
> after it, but I can only do a bit damage to all the other mobs to keep
> them from attacking the healer. Sometimes I have to do burst damage on
> mobs to keep them away from the healer, in that cases I wouldn't want
> the damage dealers to also attack this mob. They should still focus on
> the "main" mob to take him down.
> I think it's good to declare one damage dealer as the main one, having
> the others assist him, but the tank shouldn't be assisted. He's the
> only one who has to switch between the mobs for aggro holding reasons.

Fair enough. Let's say it this way: it is common to have one person pick
the mob that is to be killed right now. When that's how you're doing it,
assist is very helpful.
June 13, 2005 2:50:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Christian Stauffer wrote:

> Even if all people leave the instance, it's still there. As I know, it's
> supposed to reset when the group disbands, but not even that is working for
> me. If I want to reset the instance, I have to log out and back in.

Actually you not only need to disband, you also have to change the
leader of the party to reset. Then it works fine.

Cheers :) 
Anonymous
June 13, 2005 3:55:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:55:21 +0200, Walt <wbecke{nospam]@gmx.at> wrote:
> - That was my first experience playing in a 5-people group. It was
> sometimes very hard to select the enemy with all the group members
> around it. There is the /assist command. But how exactly does it work?

I don't use it... simply use TAB to switch your enemies. You don't need
the mouse if they are in range of your weapons.

--
Daniel Bleisteiner
....spielt WoW mit Mirandir (Dunkelelf-Jäger 23) auf Aman'Thul!
Anonymous
June 13, 2005 4:17:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"mikel" <mikel@evins.net> wrote:

> Fair enough. Let's say it this way: it is common to have one person pick
> the mob that is to be killed right now. When that's how you're doing it,
> assist is very helpful.

Agreed :o ) Just wanted to point out that the tank shouldn't be the person
to be assisted.

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (50) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Lonewalker - Striding Tauren (14) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Anonymous
June 13, 2005 6:24:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Walt" <wbecke{nospam]@gmx.at> ytrede sig i
<42ad3b2e$0$10578$3b214f66@tunews.univie.ac.at> med dette:


>- That was my first experience playing in a 5-people group. It was sometimes
>very hard to select the enemy with all the group members around it. There is
>the /assist command. But how exactly does it work?

When you can't see the enemy, you can use the TAB button to select it.
Pressing that button more time shifts between the mobs. I find this
easier than using the assist command, but I'm playing either caster or
shammy, and as the latter I nearly always takes the job of keeping the
mobs of the casters.
--
Allan Stig Kiilerich Frederiksen
"When you try to change a mans paradigm, you must keep in mind that he
can hear you only through the filter of the paradigm he holds."
-Myron Tribus
Anonymous
June 13, 2005 7:29:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

> What happens if the damage dealer loses his target and assists
> the tank again to reacquire, but the tank has meanwhile switched
> targets to get aggro on a mob that was attacking the priest?
>
> The damage dealer ends up attacking the wrong mob, that's what

>From the perspective of playing a druid that done MA and Main Healer
duties, killing the mob that's killing your healer is never wrong. :-D

That said, you should be assisting the MA, not the MT. All the MT is
doing is trying to keep as many mobs beating on him and not the healers
and casters. The MA should be making the judgement calls on which mob
should get melted first. Obviously, those roles more clearly defined in
raids. In 5 man runs, the roles can get a bit muddied, but protecting
the healer is paramount.

Regards,
Noal
June 13, 2005 9:23:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

ASKF wrote:
> "Walt" <wbecke{nospam]@gmx.at> ytrede sig i
> <42ad3b2e$0$10578$3b214f66@tunews.univie.ac.at> med dette:
>
>
>
>>- That was my first experience playing in a 5-people group. It was sometimes
>>very hard to select the enemy with all the group members around it. There is
>>the /assist command. But how exactly does it work?
>
>
> When you can't see the enemy, you can use the TAB button to select it.

<snip>

This is a good solution. I just thought I'd mention that it's not always
ideal. There are instances in which there is a group of very
similar-looking mobs who are mostly obscured by friendlies, and where
TAB can realistically select a mob that you don't really want to be
attacking, and where it's a little hard to see that from where you are.
That's another situation where assist can help.
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:35:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:55:21 +0200, "Walt" <wbecke{nospam]@gmx.at> scribed
into the ether:


>But I came across some other questions:
>
>- If I die within the instance, can I resurrect at the graveyard without
>loosing the ability to enter the instance again? As I understand instances,
>a maximum number of 5 people can be in it!?

Yes, you can use the spirit healer, and then run back to the instance and
enter it just fine. This is not an option for a lot of instances however,
as there is usually some dungeony aspect before the entrance to the actual
instance, and a live character (as opposed to a ghost) would have trouble
surviving the trip.

>- That was my first experience playing in a 5-people group. It was sometimes
>very hard to select the enemy with all the group members around it. There is
>the /assist command. But how exactly does it work?

You /assist person X, and then whatever person X has targeted becomes your
target as well. Lets you hit the same thing they are.

>- This instance is a labyrinth when first entering it. No (overview) map
>there :(  I saw the yellow spot where the "quest tauren body" was lying but
>could figure out, how to get there. Then the group helped me to find that
>thing - on another "layer" of the dungeon. These were really nice people.

You get the mini-window, but not the "see the whole dungeon" view. Because
instances often have overlapping segments, the mini map is sometimes of
only dubious use.

>- An interesting experience was my drop over the ridge into the lava stream
>(in bear-form). For a second I saw the breath-bar and thought: great, maybe
>I'll find my way out of it. Bang. Dead. Another long body-recovery-run.

Lava bad.

>- The mage did a great job in pulling the mob. Most of the time he managed
>to get only one at the time. How exactly is pulling working? I could hit the
>nearest enemy with moonfire to get him to me. But how do I prevent the
>activation of the others?

If the others are linked, you don't. Pull one, pull all. If they are not
linked, then you can use tricks of proximity and facing to get
less-than-all. It takes lots of practice.

>- In the end I experienced something very strange. My character became
>slower and slower. There were no enemies around (all dead). Do (near) full
>bags determine how fast you can walk?

Sounds like lag.
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:37:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:41:00 +0200, "Christian Stauffer"
<wildcard666@bluewin.ch> scribed into the ether:

>"mikel" <mikel@evins.net> wrote:
>
>> Christian Stauffer wrote:
>>> "Walt" <wbecke{nospam]@gmx.at> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> There is
>>>> the /assist command. But how exactly does it work?
>>>
>>>
>>> Never used it yet. I guess you will be attacking the same target as the
>>> guy you assist. As I usually player healer or tank, I don't need it (and I
>>> hate automations like that :o ).
>>
>> Try this:
>>
>> 1. Click the portrait of the party member you want to assist (or,
>> faster, use the appropriate key to select the party member)
>> 2. hit the "F" key
>>
>> Presto! Your target is that party member's target. Very handy for ranged
>> fighters assisting tanks, for example, especially when the good guys are
>> crowded around some bad guys.
>
>Playing a tank, I wouldn't want people to assist me. Why? I work my ass
>of to keep the mobs on me. I can focus on one mob (the one everyone
>should be hitting) and keep his aggro even when all damage dealers are
>after it, but I can only do a bit damage to all the other mobs to keep
>them from attacking the healer. Sometimes I have to do burst damage on
>mobs to keep them away from the healer, in that cases I wouldn't want
>the damage dealers to also attack this mob. They should still focus on
>the "main" mob to take him down.

Assist does not float your target along with the person you are assisting.
If the tank changes targets, the damage dealer only changes targets if he
hits assist again.
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:37:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:17:22 +0200, "Christian Stauffer"
<wildcard666@bluewin.ch> scribed into the ether:

>"mikel" <mikel@evins.net> wrote:
>
>> Fair enough. Let's say it this way: it is common to have one person pick
>> the mob that is to be killed right now. When that's how you're doing it,
>> assist is very helpful.
>
>Agreed :o ) Just wanted to point out that the tank shouldn't be the person
>to be assisted.

Nothing could be further from the truth.
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 1:52:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

In <birra1l4d51jvb51a0rdf183nspifo1d9j@4ax.com> Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> writes:

> Assist does not float your target along with the person you are assisting.
> If the tank changes targets, the damage dealer only changes targets if he
> hits assist again.

What happens if the damage dealer loses his target and assists the tank
again to reacquire, but the tank has meanwhile switched targets to get
aggro on a mob that was attacking the priest?

The damage dealer ends up attacking the wrong mob, that's what.

--
John Gordon "It's certainly uncontaminated by cheese."
gordon@panix.com
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 4:10:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:52:35 +0000 (UTC), John Gordon <gordon@panix.com>
scribed into the ether:

>In <birra1l4d51jvb51a0rdf183nspifo1d9j@4ax.com> Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> writes:
>
>> Assist does not float your target along with the person you are assisting.
>> If the tank changes targets, the damage dealer only changes targets if he
>> hits assist again.
>
>What happens if the damage dealer loses his target and assists the tank
>again to reacquire,

How would he do that, exactly? Been playing for a while, I've never lost my
target (not in a situation where I'd still be expected to hit it again).
Maybe a druid in the group is targeting the priest...I guess. We'll leave
aside the million and one UI mods (it actually doesn't even need a mod, but
we'll go with the flow here) that allow you to do this without losing your
current target.

> but the tank has meanwhile switched targets to get
>aggro on a mob that was attacking the priest?

Then you hit your LastTarget button to go back to it.
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 4:18:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

In <dr6sa1lcin95511svnaqcu07ra5pul0ks9@4ax.com> Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> writes:

> >What happens if the damage dealer loses his target and assists the tank
> >again to reacquire,

> How would he do that, exactly? Been playing for a while, I've never lost my
> target (not in a situation where I'd still be expected to hit it again).

Fear, toad, sheep, charm.

--
John Gordon "It's certainly uncontaminated by cheese."
gordon@panix.com
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 4:18:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:55:37 +0200, "Daniel Bleisteiner"
<news@da3x.de> wrote:

>On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:55:21 +0200, Walt <wbecke{nospam]@gmx.at> wrote:
>> - That was my first experience playing in a 5-people group. It was
>> sometimes very hard to select the enemy with all the group members
>> around it. There is the /assist command. But how exactly does it work?
>
>I don't use it... simply use TAB to switch your enemies. You don't need
>the mouse if they are in range of your weapons.

Sorry, but that's just not a good idea in higher-level instances.
Everyone should be hitting the same target, to take it out as quickly
as possible - because a mob that isn't dead is still dealing it out.
Cut the numbers, cut the damage.

Just tabbing from one to another isn't the fastest way of all being on
the same target, even if you consistently end up on the right one
(which I doubt). When things go hairy, the difference in overall
damage taken *will* be the difference between survival and a wipe.
The best approach by far is an "/assist fred" macro, with the name
hard-coded. One button push, and you're there.

Cheers - Ian
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 4:18:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Ian Noble wrote:
> Sorry, but that's just not a good idea in higher-level instances.
> Everyone should be hitting the same target, to take it out as
> quickly as possible - because a mob that isn't dead is still dealing
> it out. Cut the numbers, cut the damage.

I aggre, with the caveat that it can make sense when there's a boss
and a subboss (center of Zul'Farrak, for instance) for one player--a
Shaman or Paladin is a good choice thanks to self-heaing--to keep the
subboss occupied while everyone else piles on the boss.

> The best approach by far is an "/assist fred" macro, with the name
> hard-coded. One button push, and you're there.

Why not just F[1-5] then f? Two keystrokes, but otherwise just as fast
and no need to rewrite macros when groups change.

--
<URL:http://www.pobox.com/~ylee/&gt; PERTH ----> *
Cpu(s): 1.8% us, 0.9% sy, 0.3% ni, 95.5% id, 1.4% wa, 0.1% hi, 0.0% si
Mem: 515800k total, 501268k used, 14532k free, 32704k buffers
Swap: 3052208k total, 3700k used, 3048508k free, 182008k cached
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 4:18:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On 13 Jun 2005 23:35:09 GMT, Yeechang Lee <ylee@pobox.com> scribed into the
ether:

>Ian Noble wrote:
>> Sorry, but that's just not a good idea in higher-level instances.
>> Everyone should be hitting the same target, to take it out as
>> quickly as possible - because a mob that isn't dead is still dealing
>> it out. Cut the numbers, cut the damage.
>
>I aggre, with the caveat that it can make sense when there's a boss
>and a subboss (center of Zul'Farrak, for instance) for one player--a
>Shaman or Paladin is a good choice thanks to self-heaing--to keep the
>subboss occupied while everyone else piles on the boss.

Which is off-tanking, not damage dealing. I don't think anyone will debate
the value of an off-tank for various fights.

>> The best approach by far is an "/assist fred" macro, with the name
>> hard-coded. One button push, and you're there.
>
>Why not just F[1-5] then f? Two keystrokes, but otherwise just as fast
>and no need to rewrite macros when groups change.

Ties up 5 keys unnecesarily, and also doesn't work when you are with more
than one group and the MT is in the other one.
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 11:48:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:55:21 +0200, "Walt" <wbecke{nospam]@gmx.at>
wrote:

>- That was my first experience playing in a 5-people group. It was sometimes
>very hard to select the enemy with all the group members around it.

Two things I've found helpful. Try them, and see whether they suit
you.

1) hit the "V" key to toggle a health bar over each nearby mob's head.
You can often see these when you can't see the mob itself, and you can
click on them. Plus you can see which mobs are being hit, and
concentrate your attack without needing to use "assist" - useful for
casual groups.

2) If things are really busy, go into the "interface" menu option and
uncheck the "player names" button for the duration of the instance -
you'll be surprised by how much more you can often see. I've only
ever done this in raid groups, but when it helps, it *really* helps.

>There is
>the /assist command. But how exactly does it work?

If you "/assist fred", you acquire the same target as fred - as if
you'd clicked on the same mob as him. In the "Interface" options
menu, near the top, you can choose whether or not you also want to
attack that target by default or not (ie whether "assist" acts like a
right click or a left one).

There are lots of ways to use assist, and the lower instances are the
places to try them out. Personally I quickly got fed up of trying to
work out who to assist in the heat of the fight - if you *need* to
assist, the last thing you want is to have to work out who to assist
and then remember how to do it. I go for the easiest, no-brain one of
having "attack on assist" turned on, and a macro with the name
hard-coded. Push one button, I've just right-clicked on the same
target as (whoever). When I'm expecting to melee, I just stick to
fred like glue and hit the key whenever my current target goes down -
bingo, I'm on fred's next target, and hacking into that. For ranged
stuff, I don't move - just hit the macro button then fire the weapon
or spell.

My two prefered macro varients:

With "attack on assist" on:

/assist fred

The equivalent with "attack on assist" turned off:

/assist fred
/script attackTarget();

You can get a lot more subtle, but those two are both simple and
tactically effective. Note that macros are at least partially
case-sensitive; you need to type them correctly (and there are plenty
of mis-typed examples out there, just to be annoying).

>- This instance is a labyrinth when first entering it. No (overview) map
>there :(  I saw the yellow spot where the "quest tauren body" was lying but
>could figure out, how to get there. Then the group helped me to find that
>thing - on another "layer" of the dungeon. These were really nice people.
There's a UI mod called Atlas that will give you in-game maps of these
places, if you want them.
http://www.curse-community.com/mod.php?addid=539

>- The mage did a great job in pulling the mob. Most of the time he managed
>to get only one at the time. How exactly is pulling working? I could hit the
>nearest enemy with moonfire to get him to me. But how do I prevent the
>activation of the others?

You don't. Experience helps in deciding which mob to go for first, to
unpick things in the easiest, least painful way, which is probably
what you saw.

Pulling aims to get mobs to move away from the pack; once they're
away, the others are less likely to wander into range and join in, or
to get triggered because, say, someone got too close in the heat of
battle. But if another mob is in range of the first, you get both
(and maybe more, in a chain reaction). More tactics are needed as
things get hairier, to try to keep the second/third etc mobs out of
the fight for as long as possible (rogues may sap or kidney-punch
them; mages may "sheep" them; a hunter may drop a trap to hold them
for a while; and so forth). When, as happens most of the time, you're
expecting (or get) more than one mob at a time, THE standard party
practice is a "tank" - someone such as a warrior who can (a) take lots
of damage, and (b) deliberately keep as many of the mobs angry with
HIM rather than the rest of the party (if he kills lots of them,
that's a bonus, but it's NOT his job). Which leaves someone else (the
guy I called fred above, often called the "main assist") to pick the
targets to take down. If someone's doing that role, *that's* the guy
you should have hard-coded into your macro. Fred hits something,
everyone assists fred, the mob dies in quick order, and fred moves
on.The mobs go down one by one like skittles, and the total damage
they deal out is a LOT less than if everyone just picks a target at
random and hits it.

Pulling also gives you, in extremis, the option to run like hell, and
(if all else fails) to die in a place where you can reincarnate, be
resurrected or whatever without stiring up the mobs again - because
they'll have gone back to where they were when the pull started. Ie:
when things go pear-shaped - try to find a good spot to be killed.

>- In the end I experienced something very strange. My character became
>slower and slower. There were no enemies around (all dead). Do (near) full
>bags determine how fast you can walk?
>
Not that I've ever noticed. Sounds like a bug.

>- And last but not least a kind-of-off-topic-question: In the "social
>window" I could enter some information to my character, so my guild mates
>know my profession. The quick-help says: Click on the message itself to
>change it. Something like that. I clicked with every available mousebutton
>with every rhythm I know but I cannot put some information into it... Help?
>
The message is correct but misleading; you need to have the
appropriate guild authority to actually be able to change it.

Cheers - Ian
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:08:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 00:18:09 +0000 (UTC), John Gordon <gordon@panix.com>
scribed into the ether:

>In <dr6sa1lcin95511svnaqcu07ra5pul0ks9@4ax.com> Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> writes:
>
>> >What happens if the damage dealer loses his target and assists the tank
>> >again to reacquire,
>
>> How would he do that, exactly? Been playing for a while, I've never lost my
>> target (not in a situation where I'd still be expected to hit it again).
>
>Fear, toad, sheep, charm.

Hi, "LastTarget".
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:29:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:41:00 +0200, "Christian Stauffer"
>>
>>Playing a tank, I wouldn't want people to assist me. Why? I work my ass
>>of to keep the mobs on me. I can focus on one mob (the one everyone
>>should be hitting) and keep his aggro even when all damage dealers are
>>after it, but I can only do a bit damage to all the other mobs to keep
>>them from attacking the healer. Sometimes I have to do burst damage on
>>mobs to keep them away from the healer, in that cases I wouldn't want
>>the damage dealers to also attack this mob. They should still focus on
>>the "main" mob to take him down.
>
> Assist does not float your target along with the person you are assisting.
> If the tank changes targets, the damage dealer only changes targets if he
> hits assist again.

Ow great. You mean when you hit assist on me while I'm hitting a mob who's
on the healer you'll continue hitting him when I switch back to the main
mob? Congratulations, you'll soon catch aggro over me and I have to waste
a 10 seconds cooldown taunt to get the mob away from you. Way to go.

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (50) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Lonewalker - Striding Tauren (14) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:29:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:29:19 +0200, "Christian Stauffer"
<wildcard666@bluewin.ch> scribed into the ether:

>"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:41:00 +0200, "Christian Stauffer"
>>>
>>>Playing a tank, I wouldn't want people to assist me. Why? I work my ass
>>>of to keep the mobs on me. I can focus on one mob (the one everyone
>>>should be hitting) and keep his aggro even when all damage dealers are
>>>after it, but I can only do a bit damage to all the other mobs to keep
>>>them from attacking the healer. Sometimes I have to do burst damage on
>>>mobs to keep them away from the healer, in that cases I wouldn't want
>>>the damage dealers to also attack this mob. They should still focus on
>>>the "main" mob to take him down.
>>
>> Assist does not float your target along with the person you are assisting.
>> If the tank changes targets, the damage dealer only changes targets if he
>> hits assist again.
>
>Ow great. You mean when you hit assist on me while I'm hitting a mob who's
>on the healer you'll continue hitting him when I switch back to the main
>mob? Congratulations, you'll soon catch aggro over me and I have to waste
>a 10 seconds cooldown taunt to get the mob away from you. Way to go.

The theory being that you are ALREADY ON THE RIGHT TARGET before the tank
switches...

I really don't quite understand why you people are objecting so heavily to
the assist command. It's an incredibly useful tool, particularly as WoW has
no creature collision of any sort, and it is trivially easy for multiple
mobs to get stacked in a very small space, making tab or mouse targeting
problematical at best.
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:46:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

/agree
Having the MT doing the job of the MA at the same time is a bad idea.
Take it from me, I have Tanked many many many Instance runs to know
that it just does not work :) 
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 2:30:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:

> The theory being that you are ALREADY ON THE RIGHT TARGET before the tank
> switches...

Then why the hell do you want to assist the tank? The tank is the only
party member who constantly has to switch targets. Why not declare a damage
dealer the main assist and let everyone assist him?

> I really don't quite understand why you people are objecting so heavily to
> the assist command. It's an incredibly useful tool, particularly as WoW has
> no creature collision of any sort, and it is trivially easy for multiple
> mobs to get stacked in a very small space, making tab or mouse targeting
> problematical at best.

I really like the idea of the assist command. The reason I never used it
so far is I play a druid, and that means either tank or healer, so it's
of no use for me. I'm only pointing out the following: Assisting the tank
does not:
a) Ensure you're hitting the main mob all damage dealers should be after
b) Help to keep aggro on the tank
The assist command is a very good tool to help all damage dealers focus
on the same target, and therefore it's just wrong to use it on the tank,
who is the only member who doesn't focus on the "main" mob.

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (50) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Lonewalker - Striding Tauren (14) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 6:14:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On 13 Jun 2005 23:35:09 GMT, Yeechang Lee <ylee@pobox.com> wrote:

>Ian Noble wrote:
>> Sorry, but that's just not a good idea in higher-level instances.
>> Everyone should be hitting the same target, to take it out as
>> quickly as possible - because a mob that isn't dead is still dealing
>> it out. Cut the numbers, cut the damage.
>
>I aggre, with the caveat that it can make sense when there's a boss
>and a subboss (center of Zul'Farrak, for instance) for one player--a
>Shaman or Paladin is a good choice thanks to self-heaing--to keep the
>subboss occupied while everyone else piles on the boss.
>
>> The best approach by far is an "/assist fred" macro, with the name
>> hard-coded. One button push, and you're there.
>
>Why not just F[1-5] then f? Two keystrokes, but otherwise just as fast
>and no need to rewrite macros when groups change.

If you work well with the keyboard, and the person you're assisting
stays the same, fine. Personally, I can't hit the correct key
combination consistently without looking down, and I'd prefer not to
have to do that except when I feel I have the time to do so. When
things get hot I'd rather keep my eyes scanning the screen, my left
hand firmly on the movement keys, and let the mouse and my eyes do the
work of finding and hitting a single macro icon on screen (which is
actually what I meant by "botton push"); but that's at least partially
personal preference.

As for rewriting a macro, though - that takes seconds, and it's well
worth the effort to me, because the behaviour stays precisely the same
in every group once it's been done.

Cheers - Ian
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 9:05:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On 2005-06-14 10:30:22 +0200, "Christian Stauffer"
<wildcard666@bluewin.ch> said:

> "Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>
>> The theory being that you are ALREADY ON THE RIGHT TARGET before the tank
>> switches...
>
> Then why the hell do you want to assist the tank? The tank is the only
> party member who constantly has to switch targets. Why not declare a damage
> dealer the main assist and let everyone assist him?

I'd say because the Tank would be the first one that needs to know
which mob will receive most damage and thus requires most taunting. Our
guild has the tendency to let the tank pull, and our tank always starts
by building up aggro on the mob that has to go down first (this can be
the tank's decision or something we agreed upfront) everyone assists to
get his target and once the tank has landed some hits the rest join in.
Never had any problems with it really.

The other cases where we used it is when we have a secondary tank as
well. In that case, we assist the secondary tank who keeps the focus on
one mob while the primary tank will taunt all the other mobs besides
that one. When the mob is down, the secondary tank will pick a mob out
of the primary's 'pool of mobs' and we assist him on that one. The
assist command is an incredible help in situations like that as it
streamlines the killing process.
--
Nerghal - Undead Warlock lvl 53 - Bloodscalp EU
Gwar - Orcish Warrior lvl 19 - Bloodscalp EU
TomGanks - Undead Rogue lvl 9 - Bloodscalp EU
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 9:14:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Jack D" <jack_221NOSP@Mhotmail.com> wrote:

> I'd say because the Tank would be the first one that needs to know
> which mob will receive most damage and thus requires most taunting. Our
> guild has the tendency to let the tank pull, and our tank always starts
> by building up aggro on the mob that has to go down first (this can be
> the tank's decision or something we agreed upfront) everyone assists to
> get his target and once the tank has landed some hits the rest join in.
> Never had any problems with it really.

Ok, this works for the 1st mob, but after that one is finished, which
one to pick next?

> The other cases where we used it is when we have a secondary tank as
> well. In that case, we assist the secondary tank who keeps the focus on
> one mob while the primary tank will taunt all the other mobs besides
> that one. When the mob is down, the secondary tank will pick a mob out
> of the primary's 'pool of mobs' and we assist him on that one. The
> assist command is an incredible help in situations like that as it
> streamlines the killing process.

That sounds like the tactic I would use :o )

> Gwar - Orcish Warrior lvl 19 - Bloodscalp EU

GWAR! That's the spirit :o )

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (50) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Lonewalker - Striding Tauren (14) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 9:34:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:07:52 GMT, Matt Frisch
<matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:

>The theory being that you are ALREADY ON THE RIGHT TARGET before the tank
>switches...

The problem is that you are _not_ already on the target.

Example:
Pull three mobs - ok, you can assist the MT while he pulls them in -
all damage lands on the same target - we are happy.
Now the first one dies - the tank is switching targets all the time to
keep both on him - who do you assist now? If you assist the MT you
risk splitting your dps group because the tank got a heal and he had
to switch targets to keep both mobs on him.

The purpose of a Main Assist is a guy who selects which mob dies next
each time you have a new pull or the last target dies. You can do that
by having the MT call "ASSIST NOW!!" and then give everybody 5 seconds
to get the same target as him, but just having a dedicated MA is
easier.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
June 14, 2005 9:48:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

nvrsbr wrote:

> Having the MT doing the job of the MA at the same time is a bad idea.
> Take it from me, I have Tanked many many many Instance runs to know
> that it just does not work :) 

/signed
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 10:06:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On 2005-06-14 17:14:51 +0200, "Christian Stauffer"
<wildcard666@bluewin.ch> said:

> "Jack D" <jack_221NOSP@Mhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'd say because the Tank would be the first one that needs to know
>> which mob will receive most damage and thus requires most taunting. Our
>> guild has the tendency to let the tank pull, and our tank always starts
>> by building up aggro on the mob that has to go down first (this can be
>> the tank's decision or something we agreed upfront) everyone assists to
>> get his target and once the tank has landed some hits the rest join in.
>> Never had any problems with it really.
>
> Ok, this works for the 1st mob, but after that one is finished, which
> one to pick next?

In normal cases (2-4 mobs) the tank will first select the next target
and start building up some agro on that one. The principle being that
the mob that will receive the most damage requires the most taunting,
so our tank will work on that one for a while. Very often CC has
eliminated most of the other mobs. In cases with too much mobs or where
this tactic wouldn't work, the tactic used is often discussed based on
the situation.

>> The other cases where we used it is when we have a secondary tank as
>> well. In that case, we assist the secondary tank who keeps the focus on
>> one mob while the primary tank will taunt all the other mobs besides
>> that one. When the mob is down, the secondary tank will pick a mob out
>> of the primary's 'pool of mobs' and we assist him on that one. The
>> assist command is an incredible help in situations like that as it
>> streamlines the killing process.
>
> That sounds like the tactic I would use :o )

Touches like the /assist button is what allows enjoying the game for
the more entoxicated friday-night after 4am players as well. All
efforts in that direction should be applauded.

>> Gwar - Orcish Warrior lvl 19 - Bloodscalp EU
>
> GWAR! That's the spirit :o )

It was that or Jacques Cousteau, but as Blizzard doesnt allow spaces...
--
http://www.new-roots.com/
Nerghal - Undead Warlock lvl 53 - Bloodscalp EU
Gwar - Undead Priest lvl 19 - Bloodscalp EU
Gwar - Orcish Warrior lvl 19 - Bloodscalp EU
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 1:43:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:30:22 +0200, "Christian Stauffer"
<wildcard666@bluewin.ch> scribed into the ether:

>"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>
>> The theory being that you are ALREADY ON THE RIGHT TARGET before the tank
>> switches...
>
>Then why the hell do you want to assist the tank?

Because he's the one in the thick of it, and whatever he is attacking is
less likely to aggro on you than anything else.

> The tank is the only party member who constantly has to switch targets. Why not declare a damage
>dealer the main assist and let everyone assist him?

Because the fewer people wearing the Chief Hat, the more efficiently the
party runs.

>> I really don't quite understand why you people are objecting so heavily to
>> the assist command. It's an incredibly useful tool, particularly as WoW has
>> no creature collision of any sort, and it is trivially easy for multiple
>> mobs to get stacked in a very small space, making tab or mouse targeting
>> problematical at best.
>
>I really like the idea of the assist command. The reason I never used it
>so far is I play a druid, and that means either tank or healer, so it's
>of no use for me.

A druid playing healbot...ouch. You do know that you can target mobs and
still heal your group, right?

> I'm only pointing out the following: Assisting the tank does not:
>a) Ensure you're hitting the main mob all damage dealers should be after

Instance combat is not the time for brain-off autopilot playing.

>b) Help to keep aggro on the tank

Either the tank can keep aggro, or he can't. In my experience, damage is
less aggro-inducing than healing is. If the tank is keeping the mobs off of
the priest, then he is keeping the mobs off of everyone else too.
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 2:48:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Ian Noble ytrede sig i <4sqsa1p7tb6boss538afj6ovjekfvl0eju@4ax.com> med
dette:

[snip]
>Pulling also gives you, in extremis, the option to run like hell, and
>(if all else fails) to die in a place where you can reincarnate, be
>resurrected or whatever without stiring up the mobs again - because
>they'll have gone back to where they were when the pull started. Ie:
>when things go pear-shaped - try to find a good spot to be killed.

Indeed. I've become pretty good to recognice a wipe in it's early state,
and when I play with a pickup-group there's always someone who blames
me, because I was the first to start running. Their complaints are
stopping though, when I self-rez and then rez the rest of them :-D
--
Allan Stig Kiilerich Frederiksen
"When you try to change a mans paradigm, you must keep in mind that he
can hear you only through the filter of the paradigm he holds."
-Myron Tribus
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 3:51:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

mikel wrote:

>>
>> When you can't see the enemy, you can use the TAB button to select it.

>
> This is a good solution. I just thought I'd mention that it's not always
> ideal. There are instances in which there is a group of very
> similar-looking mobs who are mostly obscured by friendlies, and where
> TAB can realistically select a mob that you don't really want to be
> attacking, and where it's a little hard to see that from where you are.
> That's another situation where assist can help.

Like selecting one of Rattlegore's left over friends for your pet to
attack when you've already left that floor. Didn't wipe on that but went
very close.
TAB is useful, but look at what you've selected before attacking it.

Cameron
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 3:51:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Cameron ytrede sig i <d8mn5n$1g0d$1@otis.netspace.net.au> med dette:

>mikel wrote:
>
>>>
>>> When you can't see the enemy, you can use the TAB button to select it.
>
>>
>> This is a good solution. I just thought I'd mention that it's not always
>> ideal. There are instances in which there is a group of very
>> similar-looking mobs who are mostly obscured by friendlies, and where
>> TAB can realistically select a mob that you don't really want to be
>> attacking, and where it's a little hard to see that from where you are.
>> That's another situation where assist can help.
>
>Like selecting one of Rattlegore's left over friends for your pet to
>attack when you've already left that floor. Didn't wipe on that but went
>very close.
>TAB is useful, but look at what you've selected before attacking it.

Totally agree.

I also think it totally depends one the class and situation, wether TAB
or /assist is the best to use.

For a Priest, Mage, and Rogue I'm pretty sure /assist will do wonders,
because neither of them want to draw the aggroed mob away from the main
tank, but for a Druid or Shaman that is off-tanking and secondary healer
the TAB is way better.
--
Allan Stig Kiilerich Frederiksen
"When you try to change a mans paradigm, you must keep in mind that he
can hear you only through the filter of the paradigm he holds."
-Myron Tribus
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 12:37:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:30:22 +0200, "Christian Stauffer"
> <wildcard666@bluewin.ch> scribed into the ether:
>
>>"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The theory being that you are ALREADY ON THE RIGHT TARGET before the tank
>>> switches...
>>
>>Then why the hell do you want to assist the tank?
>
> Because he's the one in the thick of it, and whatever he is attacking is
> less likely to aggro on you than anything else.

And if you want it to stay less likely, don't touch the mobs he only built
up enough rage to keep them away from the healer. Touch the main mob.

Again: As a tank, I can ensure one mob being on me no matter what. And I
can touch ("mark", as Babe likes to say) all other mobs by using AoE like
demoralizing shout and cleave AND by switching targets. This marking is
done to ensure that the mobs stay on me after the healer healed me. If
you /assist me while I'm marking an enemy, you'll easy gain more aggro
than I did.

>> The tank is the only party member who constantly has to switch targets. Why
>> not declare a damage
>>dealer the main assist and let everyone assist him?
>
> Because the fewer people wearing the Chief Hat, the more efficiently the
> party runs.

It's not about the chief. It's about a simple job. Like "you always pull
by sheeping the nearest caster" or something.
If you can't declare roles in a party, that party is lacking the basics.

>>I really like the idea of the assist command. The reason I never used it
>>so far is I play a druid, and that means either tank or healer, so it's
>>of no use for me.
>
> A druid playing healbot...ouch. You do know that you can target mobs and
> still heal your group, right?

Ow, sure. In a sissy "lets rock cathedral" run I do. In a level appropriate
instance I want to draw as less attention on me as possible. I'm not the
one who has to kill the mobs, I'm the one who has to keep folks alive and
reduce downtime. And that works out better when I don't attract mobs by
also attacking them.

>> I'm only pointing out the following: Assisting the tank does not:
>>a) Ensure you're hitting the main mob all damage dealers should be after
>
> Instance combat is not the time for brain-off autopilot playing.

Where did I mention something like this?

>>b) Help to keep aggro on the tank
>
> Either the tank can keep aggro, or he can't.

Wooohoo, I'm sorry for your tank. Tanking is not the tanks job, it's the
groups job. If everyone decides to take an own mob for killing and the
healer overheals everyone, even the best tank has no chance to hold aggro.

> In my experience, damage is
> less aggro-inducing than healing is.

That's wrong. Healing produces about 75% of the aggro per hit point as
damage dealing does. Even less if the healer has subtlety talents.

> If the tank is keeping the mobs off of
> the priest, then he is keeping the mobs off of everyone else too.

That's wrong. Aggro is calculated per mob. A damage dealer can get
on top of a mobs hate list without the healer even being involved.
And that's when the desaster begins. The healer has to heal the
weak armored damage dealer (which means, he has to heal a lot more
of HPs than when the tank would have taken the impact), and pulls
the mobs away from the DD to himself.

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (50) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Lonewalker - Striding Tauren (14) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 1:15:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Christian Stauffer wrote:

> "Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:30:22 +0200, "Christian Stauffer"
>> <wildcard666@bluewin.ch> scribed into the ether:
>>
>>> "Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The theory being that you are ALREADY ON THE RIGHT TARGET before the
>>>> tank
>>>> switches...
>>>
>>>
>>> Then why the hell do you want to assist the tank?
>>
>>
>> Because he's the one in the thick of it, and whatever he is attacking is
>> less likely to aggro on you than anything else.
>
>
> And if you want it to stay less likely, don't touch the mobs he only built
> up enough rage to keep them away from the healer. Touch the main mob.
>
> Again: As a tank, I can ensure one mob being on me no matter what. And I
> can touch ("mark", as Babe likes to say) all other mobs by using AoE like
> demoralizing shout and cleave AND by switching targets. This marking is
> done to ensure that the mobs stay on me after the healer healed me. If
> you /assist me while I'm marking an enemy, you'll easy gain more aggro
> than I did.
>
>>> The tank is the only party member who constantly has to switch
>>> targets. Why not declare a damage
>>> dealer the main assist and let everyone assist him?
>>
>>
>> Because the fewer people wearing the Chief Hat, the more efficiently the
>> party runs.
>
>
> It's not about the chief. It's about a simple job. Like "you always pull
> by sheeping the nearest caster" or something.
> If you can't declare roles in a party, that party is lacking the basics.
>
>>> I really like the idea of the assist command. The reason I never used it
>>> so far is I play a druid, and that means either tank or healer, so it's
>>> of no use for me.
>>
>>
>> A druid playing healbot...ouch. You do know that you can target mobs and
>> still heal your group, right?
>
>
> Ow, sure. In a sissy "lets rock cathedral" run I do. In a level appropriate
> instance I want to draw as less attention on me as possible. I'm not the
> one who has to kill the mobs, I'm the one who has to keep folks alive and
> reduce downtime. And that works out better when I don't attract mobs by
> also attacking them.
>
>>> I'm only pointing out the following: Assisting the tank does not:
>>> a) Ensure you're hitting the main mob all damage dealers should be after
>>
>>
>> Instance combat is not the time for brain-off autopilot playing.
>
>
> Where did I mention something like this?
>
>>> b) Help to keep aggro on the tank
>>
>>
>> Either the tank can keep aggro, or he can't.
>
>
> Wooohoo, I'm sorry for your tank. Tanking is not the tanks job, it's the
> groups job. If everyone decides to take an own mob for killing and the
> healer overheals everyone, even the best tank has no chance to hold aggro.
>
>> In my experience, damage is
>> less aggro-inducing than healing is.
>
>
> That's wrong. Healing produces about 75% of the aggro per hit point as
> damage dealing does. Even less if the healer has subtlety talents.
>
>> If the tank is keeping the mobs off of
>> the priest, then he is keeping the mobs off of everyone else too.
>
>
> That's wrong. Aggro is calculated per mob. A damage dealer can get
> on top of a mobs hate list without the healer even being involved.
> And that's when the desaster begins. The healer has to heal the
> weak armored damage dealer (which means, he has to heal a lot more
> of HPs than when the tank would have taken the impact), and pulls
> the mobs away from the DD to himself.
>
> Chris
>

Rule of thumb: attack the most damaged mob. Unless you're a tank. Or
unless you're an off-tank and that can handle solo one add faster than
the whole group can kill the main target. Taking off 100dps from the
main tank for a while is *sometimes* a good idea.

/assist is mostly a PVP feature.
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 1:24:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Christian Stauffer wrote:
> "Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:30:22 +0200, "Christian Stauffer"
>> <wildcard666@bluewin.ch> scribed into the ether:
>>
>>> "Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The theory being that you are ALREADY ON THE RIGHT TARGET before
>>>> the tank switches...
>>>
>>> Then why the hell do you want to assist the tank?
>>
>> Because he's the one in the thick of it, and whatever he is
>> attacking is less likely to aggro on you than anything else.
>
> And if you want it to stay less likely, don't touch the mobs he only
> built up enough rage to keep them away from the healer. Touch the
> main mob.
>
> Again: As a tank, I can ensure one mob being on me no matter what.
> And I can touch ("mark", as Babe likes to say) all other mobs by
> using AoE like demoralizing shout and cleave AND by switching
> targets. This marking is done to ensure that the mobs stay on me
> after the healer healed me. If
> you /assist me while I'm marking an enemy, you'll easy gain more aggro
> than I did.
>
>>> The tank is the only party member who constantly has to switch
>>> targets. Why not declare a damage
>>> dealer the main assist and let everyone assist him?
>>
>> Because the fewer people wearing the Chief Hat, the more efficiently
>> the party runs.
>
> It's not about the chief. It's about a simple job. Like "you always
> pull by sheeping the nearest caster" or something.
> If you can't declare roles in a party, that party is lacking the
> basics.
>
>>> I really like the idea of the assist command. The reason I never
>>> used it
>>> so far is I play a druid, and that means either tank or healer, so
>>> it's
>>> of no use for me.
>>
>> A druid playing healbot...ouch. You do know that you can target mobs
>> and still heal your group, right?
>
> Ow, sure. In a sissy "lets rock cathedral" run I do. In a level
> appropriate instance I want to draw as less attention on me as
> possible. I'm not the one who has to kill the mobs, I'm the one who
> has to keep folks alive and reduce downtime. And that works out
> better when I don't attract mobs by also attacking them.
>
>>> I'm only pointing out the following: Assisting the tank does not:
>>> a) Ensure you're hitting the main mob all damage dealers should be
>>> after
>>
>> Instance combat is not the time for brain-off autopilot playing.
>
> Where did I mention something like this?
>
>>> b) Help to keep aggro on the tank
>>
>> Either the tank can keep aggro, or he can't.
>
> Wooohoo, I'm sorry for your tank. Tanking is not the tanks job, it's
> the groups job. If everyone decides to take an own mob for killing
> and the healer overheals everyone, even the best tank has no chance
> to hold aggro.
>
>> In my experience, damage is
>> less aggro-inducing than healing is.
>
> That's wrong. Healing produces about 75% of the aggro per hit point as
> damage dealing does. Even less if the healer has subtlety talents.
>
>> If the tank is keeping the mobs off of
>> the priest, then he is keeping the mobs off of everyone else too.
>
> That's wrong. Aggro is calculated per mob. A damage dealer can get
> on top of a mobs hate list without the healer even being involved.
> And that's when the desaster begins. The healer has to heal the
> weak armored damage dealer (which means, he has to heal a lot more
> of HPs than when the tank would have taken the impact), and pulls
> the mobs away from the DD to himself.
>
> Chris

Wow, there is a lot of information in that post! I guess I'll need some time
learning that by heart.

Walt

--
Komdorron - Tauren Druid on Sunstrider
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 3:03:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:37:52 +0200, "Christian Stauffer"
<wildcard666@bluewin.ch> scribed into the ether:

>"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:30:22 +0200, "Christian Stauffer"
>> <wildcard666@bluewin.ch> scribed into the ether:
>>
>>>"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The theory being that you are ALREADY ON THE RIGHT TARGET before the tank
>>>> switches...
>>>
>>>Then why the hell do you want to assist the tank?
>>
>> Because he's the one in the thick of it, and whatever he is attacking is
>> less likely to aggro on you than anything else.
>
>And if you want it to stay less likely, don't touch the mobs he only built
>up enough rage to keep them away from the healer. Touch the main mob.
>
>Again: As a tank, I can ensure one mob being on me no matter what. And I
>can touch ("mark", as Babe likes to say) all other mobs by using AoE like
>demoralizing shout and cleave AND by switching targets.

Which then puts the identity of the "main mob" in the hands of someone who
is not the one controlling it. Maybe if the MT and seperate MA are on
teamspeak or something and can easily communicate this would work, but I
much prefer the person with the best grasp of the situation to be the one
to decide what happens next.

>>> The tank is the only party member who constantly has to switch targets. Why
>>> not declare a damage
>>>dealer the main assist and let everyone assist him?
>>
>> Because the fewer people wearing the Chief Hat, the more efficiently the
>> party runs.
>
>It's not about the chief. It's about a simple job. Like "you always pull
>by sheeping the nearest caster" or something.
>If you can't declare roles in a party, that party is lacking the basics.

Sheeping the closest caster does not require judgement. Determining your
next target, when the choice of those targets are all potentially standing
on the exact same pixel does require judgement.

>>>b) Help to keep aggro on the tank
>>
>> Either the tank can keep aggro, or he can't.
>
>Wooohoo, I'm sorry for your tank.

Don't see why, they all do fine.

> Tanking is not the tanks job, it's the groups job.

No, tanking is the tank's job. Working with the tank is the group's job.

> If everyone decides to take an own mob for killing and the
>healer overheals everyone, even the best tank has no chance to hold aggro.

Which /assist does not do, and is thus not relevant.

>> In my experience, damage is
>> less aggro-inducing than healing is.
>
>That's wrong. Healing produces about 75% of the aggro per hit point as
>damage dealing does. Even less if the healer has subtlety talents.

I relate my experience. I do lots of damage. I never get aggro unless I
want it. Healers get aggro all the time. It's usually not of much
consequence, but it certainly happens.

>> If the tank is keeping the mobs off of
>> the priest, then he is keeping the mobs off of everyone else too.
>
>That's wrong. Aggro is calculated per mob. A damage dealer can get
>on top of a mobs hate list without the healer even being involved.

But when the healer is involved, his healing angers all mobs equally, where
doing damage just pisses off the one (AoEs aside).
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 8:40:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Matt Frisch a écrit :

> >> Because he's the one in the thick of it, and whatever he is attacking is
> >> less likely to aggro on you than anything else.
> >
> >And if you want it to stay less likely, don't touch the mobs he only built
> >up enough rage to keep them away from the healer. Touch the main mob.
> >
> >Again: As a tank, I can ensure one mob being on me no matter what. And I
> >can touch ("mark", as Babe likes to say) all other mobs by using AoE like
> >demoralizing shout and cleave AND by switching targets.
>
> Which then puts the identity of the "main mob" in the hands of someone who
> is not the one controlling it. Maybe if the MT and seperate MA are on
> teamspeak or something and can easily communicate this would work, but I
> much prefer the person with the best grasp of the situation to be the one
> to decide what happens next.

The person with the best grasp is the healer. He's the one who knows
how much damage has been dealt to every mob, and how much damage has
been dealt to all party monster, and specifically which mob will aggro
him depending on which heal he's going to use.

Ask any person who repeatedly played as main healer, they KNOW exactly
when the tank is good, when the tank is bad, when the group deals too
little spread damage and when specific monsters need to be left alone
for a while to save the damage dealers.

The healer knows that. Because every heal from the healer is like an
AOE attack. a 1000 flash heal is almost like a 750 AOE damage spell
with 40 yards range and 1.5s cast. Except the 750 damage are split
between all the mobs that dealt damage to the Main tank. Depending on
when he casts it into the fight, he will get aggro or not. And that is
calculated depending on the total dps dealt on all mobs aware of the
target of the heal since the start of the fight.

A healer keeps an eye on his combat log for info about damage dealt to
the mobs and damage taken by his partner's life. If it looks like mobs
deal more damage than players do to them, then healing someone back to
full will draw aggro.

The job of the MT is to make sure he deals more damage to each mob than
they each do to him. That's all. If a mob deals 30dps to him, he'll
have to get a 200 strike here and there once every 6 second, possibly
longer with skills such as demoralizing shout, sunder armour, cleave,
which are "free" instant hate-generating skills.
That way, the healer will never heal more damage than the tank did to
the mobs, and thus never draw aggro. But that requires "Marking" or
"Tagging" all the mobs once in a while. And it's a job of target
switching very early into the fight.

Now as far as damage to a big mob is concerned... keeping aggro on the
main target requires a lot of threat building job from the tank.
Sunder, sunder, sunder... And that requires some time as well... DPS
dealers should wait a while and allow the tank some significant time to
build initial threat.

If you really need a main assist, choose someone other than the main
tank. The tank can use the /assist as well, which is the skill to be
used to "recall" the main target in a hurry and keep on
sundering/bashing and generally taunting it.

>
> >>> The tank is the only party member who constantly has to switch targets. Why
> >>> not declare a damage
> >>>dealer the main assist and let everyone assist him?
> >>
> >> Because the fewer people wearing the Chief Hat, the more efficiently the
> >> party runs.
> >
> >It's not about the chief. It's about a simple job. Like "you always pull
> >by sheeping the nearest caster" or something.
> >If you can't declare roles in a party, that party is lacking the basics.
>
> Sheeping the closest caster does not require judgement. Determining your
> next target, when the choice of those targets are all potentially standing
> on the exact same pixel does require judgement.
>

Look at the life of the mobs and the damage they were dealt. Rule of
thumb: attack the target who took the largest amount of damage IN RAW
NUMBERS, not relative damage, to finish it ASAP, and have less chance
to draw aggro yourself.


> >>>b) Help to keep aggro on the tank
> >>
> >> Either the tank can keep aggro, or he can't.
> >
> >Wooohoo, I'm sorry for your tank.
>
> Don't see why, they all do fine.
>
> > Tanking is not the tanks job, it's the groups job.
>
> No, tanking is the tank's job. Working with the tank is the group's job.

Tanking is the group's job.

1)Tank builds threat on everyone,
1)Tank takes damage,
2)healer heals tank,
3)each one in the group needs to deal more damage than tank was healed
of,
4)but not more than the global threat tank built on the main target.

>
> > If everyone decides to take an own mob for killing and the
> >healer overheals everyone, even the best tank has no chance to hold aggro.
>
> Which /assist does not do, and is thus not relevant.

That's why /assist on the tank is the problem, because the tank must
build and keep aggro on many different targets.

>
> >> In my experience, damage is
> >> less aggro-inducing than healing is.
> >
> >That's wrong. Healing produces about 75% of the aggro per hit point as
> >damage dealing does. Even less if the healer has subtlety talents.
>
> I relate my experience. I do lots of damage. I never get aggro unless I
> want it. Healers get aggro all the time. It's usually not of much
> consequence, but it certainly happens.
>

Your healers are bad. They heal too quickly, before the tank tagged the
mobs. Or your tank is bad. He focuses on only one target during the
fight, preventing it from going to you damage dealers alright, but not
protecting the healer from drawing aggro off all the other mobs who
damaged the tank. It's either one or the other. If you don't draw
aggro, you're all doing good. If the healer draws aggro or the tank
lets aggro go, something is wrong with either your healer, your tank,
or both. And no, Subtlelty talent or fade probably won't solve this
problem, only marginally. There's a strategic flaw if it happens often,
it's not "normal".

> >> If the tank is keeping the mobs off of
> >> the priest, then he is keeping the mobs off of everyone else too.
> >
> >That's wrong. Aggro is calculated per mob. A damage dealer can get
> >on top of a mobs hate list without the healer even being involved.
>
> But when the healer is involved, his healing angers all mobs equally, where
> doing damage just pisses off the one (AoEs aside).

Consider the healer deals to every mob in the battlefield 75% of the
damage the mobs dealt themselves to the tank.

If one mob deals 200 dps to the tank and another one deals 100 dps to
the tank, when the healer heals the tank for 300dps (keeps him full
constantly during the fight), he's considered to be dealing about 150
dps to the first mob and 75 dps to the other mob.

So as soon as you deal more than 150dps to the first mob, you're
drawing more aggro than the priest on the first mob. And if nobody
deals more than 75dps on the other mob, then the priest will draw aggro
from the other mob.

That's how it works.

Let the MT switch targets and keep all the mobs angry. Don't assist
him. Let priests leave some party members at half-life. As a primary
healer, let secondary healers heal whenever they want. Sometimes, kill
easy mobs out of the main tank to facilitate the add aggro management
for the healer.

Hope it helps.
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 11:51:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On 14 Jun 2005 08:46:13 -0700, "nvrsbr" <abryant1@shaw.ca> wrote:

>/agree
>Having the MT doing the job of the MA at the same time is a bad idea.
>Take it from me, I have Tanked many many many Instance runs to know
>that it just does not work :) 

Splitting up the MT/MA duties also has one other advantage. The mob
that the DPS classes are focusing on is usually the one that my
warrior is least worried about holding agro on. If I loose agro on
that one, odds are it will die fast enough anyway so that it doesn't
hurt anyone too badly before it goes down. If I loose agro on one of
the adds then I have to start running around gathering up the mobs
that just went for the healer.

Rgds, Frank
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 1:07:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Brian" <brianmcadam@pobox.com> wrote:

> No need to rewrite macros, either, if you write the macros correctly in the
> first place.
>
> I'd have to go digging for the exact text, but I read a post on the wow
> forums for a pair of assist macros. The first macro would rewrite the
> second macro with the name of your current target, and the second macro was
> a classic assist macro.
>
> Target MT, hit button one.
> "Now Assisting Fred"
> Hit button two, and Fred's target becomes your target.
>
> Tomorrow, when you're in a new group and George is MT, target George and
> hit button one again.
> "Now Assisting George"

After reading all that stories about Fred, I'd suggest to kick George
out of the team and get Fred instead. Must be one hell of a player :o )

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (50) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Lonewalker - Striding Tauren (15) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 2:02:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Well, it depend who have more mobs. If you have mobs on hand, it is
easier for the healer to kite her mob over to you rather than you to go
after it. As a tank, I have often hold 3 - 4 mobs. When healer aggro a
mob, I usually tell her to kite the mob over to where I am, stand
behind me for a second or two not doing anything, and then slowly back
away. By then I can grab that mob's attention as well through Cleave,
Taunt, Challenge Shout, or Demoralize Shout.

Also helpful if the healer does not have Thorn buff which Christian has
enlightened us, yeah!


Frank E wrote:
> On 14 Jun 2005 08:46:13 -0700, "nvrsbr" <abryant1@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> >/agree
> >Having the MT doing the job of the MA at the same time is a bad idea.
> >Take it from me, I have Tanked many many many Instance runs to know
> >that it just does not work :) 
>
> Splitting up the MT/MA duties also has one other advantage. The mob
> that the DPS classes are focusing on is usually the one that my
> warrior is least worried about holding agro on. If I loose agro on
> that one, odds are it will die fast enough anyway so that it doesn't
> hurt anyone too badly before it goes down. If I loose agro on one of
> the adds then I have to start running around gathering up the mobs
> that just went for the healer.
>
> Rgds, Frank
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 5:23:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Brian" <brianmcadam@pobox.com> wrote:

> The only reason you care about how much damage a mob is dealing to your
> tank is that it determines how much healing is required, and therefore how
> much aggro the tank has to have to keep the mobs off the priest.

Erm, Brian? That's the whole point Babe and I are trying to explain all the
time.

Thanks for the link, though, I'll read it.

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (50) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Lonewalker - Striding Tauren (15) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 6:09:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

I just wish they steal EQ2 idea (or if it was some other game's idea,
same thing). When you target a player and attack, the attack goes to
whatever the player is attacking (auto-assist). Reverse for healing,
when you target a mob and heal, it'll heal whoever the mob is
attacking.
EQ2 has stolen many ideas from WoW, would be just fair if WoW did the
same :) 
Anonymous
June 17, 2005 10:11:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Babe Bridou wrote:

> Come on, a healer generating GEOMETRIC Aggro??? That's crazy. If that's
> the case I seriously doubt we survived that encounter with 3 elite
> basilisks and 2 elite rock, 6 little rock adds, Christian.

Ow, I didn't remember that encounter, but sure!
(http://www.wildcard7.com/_temp/someadds.jpg)

We had to fight against 4 elite basilisks and after finishing 2 of them
off, we got an incoming patrol.
So: Esa dealt damage, Grunter (warrior) was tanking, Sharkun (Druid) was
offtanking in bear form.
I used about 6000 mana in that encounter: My whole mana bar (3100) plus a
greater mana pot (like 800 mana? something around there) plus 80% of my
"second mana bar" (innervate talent virtually refills my mana bar within 15
seconds).
6k mana is about 18k health healed. Without even taking critical effects
into consideration, and as I healed mostly with regrowth which has a 50%
chance to crit, that makes a huge difference. So let's make it 20k healed.

At this moment, with 20k health healed by me, we only killed the 4
basilisks plus maybe one of the elite rocks. I seriously doubt anyone has
dealt 20k (or, as healing is not that much aggro generating as dd is, let's
say 15k) damage to a single target. Yet, none of the mobs attacked me.

When I figured I was running oom I tried to switch roles with sharkun.
I shifted to bear form, and I had one mean hard time to pull the mobs off
sharkun, who shifted to druid form. Imagine: Following Brians theory, I
would have had generated an equivalent of about 15k damage by healing. Per
mob. And I still couldn't get the mobs off a lousy offtank.

Sorry, but "Heal aggro is *not* split" is flat out wrong.

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (50) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Lonewalker - Striding Tauren (15) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 1:23:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Brian wrote:
> Damage dealt by mobs is irrelevant to the calculation of heal aggro.
> That's two mistakes.
>
> The only reason you care about how much damage a mob is dealing to your
> tank is that it determines how much healing is required, and therefore how
> much aggro the tank has to have to keep the mobs off the priest.

Without wishing to argue with the rest of your post in any way, I have
to say - this is just semantics.

As you say, how much healing is required is determined by how much
damage a mob is dealing to your tank. And since heal aggro is based on
how many hit points are healed, so it's a bit ingenuous to say "Damage
dealt by mobs is irrelevant to the calculation of heal aggro."

Cheers!
David...
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 12:38:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Brian wrote:
> Here's what I'd like to see from you. I'd like to see *any* methodological
> testing done to prove your "split aggro" theory. If you can do that, I'll
> happily bow to your superior wisdom.
>
> Until that time, I'm going to keep play as though the people that have
> actually *tested* this stuff know what they're talking about.

Hang on, I didn't see anything in that forum link you posted about this
"split aggro" theory. The only experiments I saw with multiple mobs were
testing the circumstances in which mobs were "aware" of heals. Did I
miss it? Or was it in one of the followup posts?

But indeed, a test with clearly explained methodology beats a thousand
"we accidentally pulled eleven mobs and did OK, so healing aggro must be
split" anecdotes.

Cheers!
David...
!