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July 25, 2012 4:30:39 AM

*quick notes*

**TL;DR - Looking to see whether the listed discount pre-builds have greater value than my custom-build, whilst-delivering satisfactory performance in the mid-tier-level-$1000-range-area.**

**didn't know whether to post under pre-built or new build because this pertains to both really... Sorry if it breaks some rule or bothers anyone, my bad if it does**

*Budget: would really love to be below $1000 while meeting my needs/wants... but I understand if i must pay a little more.

*Uses: Video games and microsoft apps

*Overclocking: explained below

*Screen resolution: would really prefer 1080p

*keyboard and mouse not needed... OS and monitor are needed.

* before posting, please, please, PLEASE keep an open-mind about the topic. So often i get the idea (and maybe its true) that people think that building a computer gives them some elitist title; that building your own machine is the only logical thing to do; that if you aren't overclocking then you have 47 chromosomes or some BS like that if you get my meaning. I could be wrong, but if i am , and you think you are right, back it up with some facts, not fanboyistic, close-minded jibberjabber.*
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So basically I've been browsing around for about a month; I am trying to find a computer that meets all of my needs/wants at the very best value. At the start of my journey, i was completely opposed to building my own PC, and i wanted to buy an Alienware (sacrilege i know). After much research, i have found and seem to understand the simplicity of building my own PC and have fiddled with picking parts for a while.

Here is my newegg.com wishlist:

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx...

+ Asus 21.5 inch HD moniter for 130 dollars on amazon.

-I want to play current games at high to ultra, i also will be using microsoft apps for college and stuff, and the usual internet browsing, etc.

I really want a little room for upgrades in the future; i plan to add an SSD in the future, maybe run crossfire/SLI or upgrade anything i deem necessary really. Overclocking is not a priority for me, mostly because i am already quite used to running games on a toaster oven and would like to avoid the risk of it (OCing). I am trying to mitigate cost as effectively as possible, so I avoid an unlocked processor with the basically required aftermarket cooling system and I decide to put off getting an SSD.

I am trying as hard as possible to keep the price of the computer with a monitor and windows 7 as low as possible, which seems to be roughly $1050 currently.

Now it seems that i can now get my hands on an EXTREMELY discounted machine from the Lenovo website. I have barely heard the name Lenovo and have deemed it somewhat generic, so i am skeptical of the deals.

The laptop is this:

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/Len...

-for $899.99

The Desktops are:

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/Len...

-these concern me because the higher end ones have so much i do not really need; i.e. 16 gb ram and 2 TB HDD... all while having sorta weak GPU's.

Basically i just want to hear some input from people... I know building your own computer is normally the best bet, as you can get select all the specs of the machine, but these other ones attract me because of their massive discounts that puts them pretty close to equal value part for part - without the options to pick and choose parts, of course. Also, the sale does sadly end very soon and I basically would lose out on it if i cannot make a choice quickly -- but really that is my problem.

Also, I always preferred to get a desktop because better performance/price and i like a little larger screen, but i will definitely keep an open-mind towards laptops if this deal is really worth it.

TL;DR - Looking to see whether the listed discount pre-builds have greater value than my custom-build, whilst-delivering satisfactory performance in the mid-tier-level-$1000-range-area.

sorry for the text wall, many many thanks to any feedback at all. Everything is greatly appreciated.

More about : opinions

July 25, 2012 5:47:38 AM

Quote:
* before posting, please, please, PLEASE keep an open-mind about the topic. So often i get the idea (and maybe its true) that people think that building a computer gives them some elitist title; that building your own machine is the only logical thing to do; that if you aren't overclocking then you have 47 chromosomes or some BS like that if you get my meaning. I could be wrong, but if i am , and you think you are right, back it up with some facts, not fanboyistic, close-minded jibberjabber.*


If gaming is your highest priority - keep in mind that laptop GPUs are in no way, shape or form anywhere even remotely close to the same league as their desktop counterparts. If you want a good idea of what I'm talking about: read this: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-6990m-gef...

Quote:
Basically i just want to hear some input from people... I know building your own computer is normally the best bet, as you can get select all the specs of the machine, but these other ones attract me because of their massive discounts that puts them pretty close to equal value part for part - without the options to pick and choose parts, of course. Also, the sale does sadly end very soon and I basically would lose out on it if i cannot make a choice quickly -- but really that is my problem.


The problem with pre-built big-box manufactured systems is that they use watered down, proprietary hardware that makes upgrading incredibly difficult and in some cases near impossible. If you want a system that's made for longevity, build your own. I can never recommend crap brands like Alienware, Dell, and things of that nature for that very reason - for the money you pay for those systems you'll never get the same hardware that you would building your system yourself. If gaming is a priority you don't want access to the system multiplier forfeited, nor do you want a watered down, generic GPU.

Quote:
TL;DR - Looking to see whether the listed discount pre-builds have greater value than my custom-build, whilst-delivering satisfactory performance in the mid-tier-level-$1000-range-area.


Not even remotely close. Again I'll say that with pre-builts - they include junk power supplies, the lowest end GPUs you can get, motherboards that are not ATX form factor, bloatware galore, you name it.

For a $1K build - yours is very good to start with but that GTX 670 won't be fully utilized with an i5-2500K. And the tool kit is a waste of money - all you need is a good Philips head screw driver. Try something like this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($30.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme4 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($114.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($43.99 @ Newegg)
Hard Drive: Samsung Spinpoint F3 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 670 2GB Video Card ($409.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 300R ATX Mid Tower Case ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair 650W ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($17.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1047.91
(Prices include shipping and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2012-07-25 01:47 EDT-0400)
July 25, 2012 6:54:19 AM

There is one thing I cannot agree with from the above, and that is calling mATX worthless, even on mid tower builds.
Related resources
July 25, 2012 7:04:11 AM

ATX form factor means that its one of certain sizes. I-ATX, M-ATX, ATX and E-ATX are all in the form factor.What G-units talking about is the motherboard is completely outside that, like it was a rectangle (say 30x70cm in size), doesnt fit any of the ATX form factors. Basically it couldnt be transplanted into another case without modifying it to suit its particular shape.

+1 to what G-unit has said. Building a PC will work out better in almost every case.

July 25, 2012 7:08:32 AM

I've always seen him talk about ATX as in just ATX, no mATX/ITX, etc.
July 25, 2012 4:09:08 PM

azeem40 said:
There is one thing I cannot agree with from the above, and that is calling mATX worthless, even on mid tower builds.


I never said mATX was completely worthless - there's times when it does work (HTPCs, etc) it's just that when I build desktop systems I always try to plan them for longevity and mATX doesn't always meet that requirement. Where pre builds fail is that they make motherboards and power supplies to fit their cases and almost nothing else you can get works in those form factors.

Quote:
ATX form factor means that its one of certain sizes. I-ATX, M-ATX, ATX and E-ATX are all in the form factor.What G-units talking about is the motherboard is completely outside that, like it was a rectangle (say 30x70cm in size), doesnt fit any of the ATX form factors. Basically it couldnt be transplanted into another case without modifying it to suit its particular shape.


But then there's also the power supply issue - if you look at a typical Dell offering, the motherboard included does not match a typical ATX / mATX PSU's power and voltage connectors - they use their own. If you ever upgrade the motherboard, you will almost immediately need to upgrade the PSU.
July 25, 2012 4:18:58 PM

g-unit1111 said:
Quote:
* before posting, please, please, PLEASE keep an open-mind about the topic. So often i get the idea (and maybe its true) that people think that building a computer gives them some elitist title; that building your own machine is the only logical thing to do; that if you aren't overclocking then you have 47 chromosomes or some BS like that if you get my meaning. I could be wrong, but if i am , and you think you are right, back it up with some facts, not fanboyistic, close-minded jibberjabber.*


If gaming is your highest priority - keep in mind that laptop GPUs are in no way, shape or form anywhere even remotely close to the same league as their desktop counterparts. If you want a good idea of what I'm talking about: read this: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-6990m-gef...

Quote:
Basically i just want to hear some input from people... I know building your own computer is normally the best bet, as you can get select all the specs of the machine, but these other ones attract me because of their massive discounts that puts them pretty close to equal value part for part - without the options to pick and choose parts, of course. Also, the sale does sadly end very soon and I basically would lose out on it if i cannot make a choice quickly -- but really that is my problem.


The problem with pre-built big-box manufactured systems is that they use watered down, proprietary hardware that makes upgrading incredibly difficult and in some cases near impossible. If you want a system that's made for longevity, build your own. I can never recommend crap brands like Alienware, Dell, and things of that nature for that very reason - for the money you pay for those systems you'll never get the same hardware that you would building your system yourself. If gaming is a priority you don't want access to the system multiplier forfeited, nor do you want a watered down, generic GPU.

Quote:
TL;DR - Looking to see whether the listed discount pre-builds have greater value than my custom-build, whilst-delivering satisfactory performance in the mid-tier-level-$1000-range-area.


Not even remotely close. Again I'll say that with pre-builts - they include junk power supplies, the lowest end GPUs you can get, motherboards that are not ATX form factor, bloatware galore, you name it.

For a $1K build - yours is very good to start with but that GTX 670 won't be fully utilized with an i5-2500K. And the tool kit is a waste of money - all you need is a good Philips head screw driver. Try something like this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($30.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme4 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($114.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($43.99 @ Newegg)
Hard Drive: Samsung Spinpoint F3 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 670 2GB Video Card ($409.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 300R ATX Mid Tower Case ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair 650W ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($17.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1047.91
(Prices include shipping and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2012-07-25 01:47 EDT-0400)


This.
July 25, 2012 6:24:51 PM

g-unit1111 said:
I never said mATX was completely worthless - there's times when it does work (HTPCs, etc) it's just that when I build desktop systems I always try to plan them for longevity and mATX doesn't always meet that requirement. Where pre builds fail is that they make motherboards and power supplies to fit their cases and almost nothing else you can get works in those form factors.

Quote:
ATX form factor means that its one of certain sizes. I-ATX, M-ATX, ATX and E-ATX are all in the form factor.What G-units talking about is the motherboard is completely outside that, like it was a rectangle (say 30x70cm in size), doesnt fit any of the ATX form factors. Basically it couldnt be transplanted into another case without modifying it to suit its particular shape.


But then there's also the power supply issue - if you look at a typical Dell offering, the motherboard included does not match a typical ATX / mATX PSU's power and voltage connectors - they use their own. If you ever upgrade the motherboard, you will almost immediately need to upgrade the PSU.

Should have worded it differently. mATX is also useful if you don't need extra features.
!