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Wow! - don't the Japanese make great cameras?!....

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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 2:14:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On December 14, 1945, Japanese soldiers forced 150 American prisoners of
war at a compound on Palawan into an air-raid shelter. Then they doused them
with gasoline and threw in a matc


A few of the Americans, a very few, survived. Army PFC Eugene Nielson was
one of the survivors. He later described the atrocity to U.S. intelligence
officers

The trench smelled very strongly of gas. There was an explosion and flames
shot throughout the place. Some of the guys were moaning. I realized this
was it -- either I had to break for it or die. Luckily I was in the trench
closest to the fence. So I jumped and dove through the barbed wire. I fell
over the cliff and somehow grabbed hold of a small tree... There were
Japanese soldiers down on the beach. I buried myself in a pile of garbage
and coconut husks. I kept working my way under until I got fairly covered
up... The Japanese were bayoneting [prisoners on the beach]. They shot or
stabbed twelve Americans and then dug a shallow grave in the sand and threw
them in.

Nielsen hid in the garbage until the Japanese left. He then made a break for
it but the Japanese saw him and started firing. He jumped into the sea and
was shot several times. Miraculously, he lived and managed to escape --
swimming for nine hours and eventually finding his way through the
Philippine jungle to American guerrilla forces

It was Nielsen's story that helped convince the American Command to rescue
the prisoners at Cabanatuan prison camp. It was also his story that made the
prisoners of Cabanatuan particularly terrified.

The Cabanatuan POWs had heard all about Palawan. They had assembled a secret
radio and, in fact, knew a lot about American movements and successes in the
war. The radio was ingenious. It was assembled inside a water canteen.
Former POW James Hildebrand recalled how the prisoners tricked the Japanese
into helping them build their secret radio

....[The guys] were fixing Japanese radios and they would take certain parts
out and tell the Japanese those parts needed replacing, and it was up to the
Japanese to get those parts. Well, the Japanese never asked for those parts
back, and if you get enough parts you can make a radio, and that's exactly
what they did. They fooled the Japanese.

The news of Palawan terrified the POWs. Many felt that they were next. They
believed that their Japanese captors were plotting their massacre. After
all, they had all seen acts of Japanese brutality firsthand. Many had been
through the infamous death march -- where the Japanese army had marched an
estimated 72,000 Americans and Filipinos 65 miles to San Fernando, Pampanga.
Hampton Sides, author of Ghost Soldiers, estimates that 750 Americans and
5,000 Filipinos died on the march -- victims of starvation, disease, and
random executions. (It should be noted that estimates vary widely. A study
document put out by the Department of Veteran's Affairs puts the American
deaths at 650 and Filipino deaths at 16,500. Forrest Johnson, author of Hour
of Redemption, puts the U.S. deaths at 2,275 and Filipino deaths between
9,000-14,000.

On the march, the men witnessed arbitrary executions of their fellow
American and Filipino soldiers and of Filipino civilians who had offered
food or water to the marchers. Bert Bank remembers:

One of the POWs had a ring on and the Japanese guard attempted to get the
ring off. He couldn't get it off and he took a machete and cut the man's
wrist off and when he did that, of course, the man was bleeding profusely.
[I tried to help him] but when I looked back I saw a Japanese guard sticking
a bayonet through his stomach.

On the second day, a fully pregnant Filipino woman threw some food out...
this POW in front of me picked up the food and started eating it; and a
Japanese guard came... and decapitated that POW... and then he went and cut
the stomach out of the Filipino woman. She was screaming "Kill me, Kill me,"
and they wouldn't do it.

The POWs also experienced intense cruelty at the hands of their captors in
Cabanatuan. All had witnessed hundreds of their compatriots die for lack of
food and medicine. All had witnessed torture and summary executions. All had
experienced Japanese brutality firsthand.

Former POW Richard Beck remembered:

It's a very sinking feeling to know that you are going to be abused for a
long period of time, and that's exactly what it was, it was a long period of
abuse -- starvation, beatings... Some people were shot for no reason at all,
so you never knew how to assess the situation, whether you should try to
lead a low profile. It was a case of never knowing how to cope.

The Cabanatuan POWs' fear of becoming victims of another large scale
massacre were well founded. After the war, it became clear that there
existed a high command order -- issued from the War Ministry in Tokyo -- to
kill all remaining POWs. This order, read in part:

Whether they are destroyed individually or in groups, and whether it is
accomplished by means of mass bombing, poisonous smoke, poisons, drowning,
or decapitation, dispose of them as the situation dictates. It is the aim
not to allow the escape of a single one, to annihilate them all, and not to
leave any traces

It also became clear after the war that the Japanese were responsible for
horrific abuses of POWs aboard tankers leaving the Philippines and bound for
Japan. These tankers became known as hell ships. The Japanese put masses of
men in the holds of tankers and gave them little food, light, room or water.
The men died at an alarming rate -- of suffocation, thirst, and madness.
They also died of allied bombing , since the hell ships were not marked with
a white cross, as specified by the Geneva Conventions, to indicate POWs were
on board. The men who survived these tankers became slave laborers in
Japanese mines and factories

Throughout the Pacific theater, the Japanese treated POWs and civilians
barbarically. Survivors of camps in Indonesia, Thailand, Singapore, Burma
and Laos all reported experiencing tremendous cruelty, torture, disease and
starvation. It is an astounding fact that while POWs died at a rate of 1.2%
in Germany, they died at a rate of 37% across the Pacific.

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.pbs...
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 2:14:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

And the Germans make great cars.

The American "indian killers" make great things too.

Should we not buy Itailian suits because the Romans were such brutal
emperors?

Should I boycott gyros because of thing the Greeks did in ancient
times?

Should I boycott the French just because they annoy me?
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 2:14:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Polly Pentax" <pentax@polly.com> wrote in message
news:3mpkruF188sqbU1@individual.net...
> On December 14, 1945, Japanese soldiers forced 150 American prisoners of
> war at a compound on Palawan into an air-raid shelter. Then they doused
> them with gasoline and threw in a matc
>
>
> A few of the Americans, a very few, survived. Army PFC Eugene Nielson was
> one of the survivors. He later described the atrocity to U.S. intelligence
> officers

When an 85 year-old, former Japanese prison guard
tries to sell me a camera, I'll keep this in mind.

In the meantime...perhaps you should move to the Middle East.

There you will find millions of people willing to hold centuries-old
grudges.
Related resources
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 2:14:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 2:14:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Polly Pentax wrote:
> "Cockpit Colin" <spam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:vMNNe.4240$iM2.437978@news.xtra.co.nz...
> > After wasting 5 minutes of my day reading this I don't understand what on
> > earth it has to do with cameras. Are you suggesting that we should think
> > twice about buying a camera that was designed and built by people who were
> > born (and probably choose to live) in a certain part of the world because
> > war atrocities were committed by some soldiers who also happened to be
> > born in the same part of the world a generation or two before them?
> >
> > I wouldn't be at all surprised if todays generations of Japanise are just
> > as disapproving of the actions of the war time soldiers as the rest of
> > us - so why try to punish todays generation? - they weren't there - they
> > didn't have anything to do with it.
>
>
> Your attitude is pretty typical - and is one of the saddest aspects of the
> entire tragedy.
>
> Sixty years is NOTHING! It's a mere 'blip', a momentary blink of an
> eyelid - yet, already, the deaths of hundreds of thousands of men, women,
> and children at the hands of the Japanese is irrelevant to those falling
> over themselves to buy goods from their murderers.
>
> They died in agony - yet, in their most terrible anguish, I do not believe
> for one moment that they thought their deaths would be so light regarded
> within two short generations!
>
> Shame on you - real, genuine, and execrable SHAME!

And you buy cameras made where? My camera is from a Japanese company,
was assembled in the Phillipines and the lens was assembled in Vietnam.
Yours?
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 2:14:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Polly Pentax" <pentax@polly.com> wrote in message
news:3mpkruF188sqbU1@individual.net...
> On December 14, 1945, Japanese soldiers forced 150 American prisoners of
> war at a compound on Palawan into an air-raid shelter. Then they doused
them
> with gasoline and threw in a matc
>
>
> A few of the Americans, a very few, survived. Army PFC Eugene Nielson was
> one of the survivors. He later described the atrocity to U.S. intelligence
> officers
>
> The trench smelled very strongly of gas. There was an explosion and flames
> shot throughout the place. Some of the guys were moaning. I realized this
> was it -- either I had to break for it or die. Luckily I was in the trench
> closest to the fence. So I jumped and dove through the barbed wire. I fell
> over the cliff and somehow grabbed hold of a small tree... There were
> Japanese soldiers down on the beach. I buried myself in a pile of garbage
> and coconut husks. I kept working my way under until I got fairly covered
> up... The Japanese were bayoneting [prisoners on the beach]. They shot or
> stabbed twelve Americans and then dug a shallow grave in the sand and
threw
> them in.
>
> Nielsen hid in the garbage until the Japanese left. He then made a break
for
> it but the Japanese saw him and started firing. He jumped into the sea and
> was shot several times. Miraculously, he lived and managed to escape --
> swimming for nine hours and eventually finding his way through the
> Philippine jungle to American guerrilla forces
>
> It was Nielsen's story that helped convince the American Command to rescue
> the prisoners at Cabanatuan prison camp. It was also his story that made
the
> prisoners of Cabanatuan particularly terrified.
>
> The Cabanatuan POWs had heard all about Palawan. They had assembled a
secret
> radio and, in fact, knew a lot about American movements and successes in
the
> war. The radio was ingenious. It was assembled inside a water canteen.
> Former POW James Hildebrand recalled how the prisoners tricked the
Japanese
> into helping them build their secret radio
>
> ...[The guys] were fixing Japanese radios and they would take certain
parts
> out and tell the Japanese those parts needed replacing, and it was up to
the
> Japanese to get those parts. Well, the Japanese never asked for those
parts
> back, and if you get enough parts you can make a radio, and that's exactly
> what they did. They fooled the Japanese.
>
> The news of Palawan terrified the POWs. Many felt that they were next.
They
> believed that their Japanese captors were plotting their massacre. After
> all, they had all seen acts of Japanese brutality firsthand. Many had been
> through the infamous death march -- where the Japanese army had marched an
> estimated 72,000 Americans and Filipinos 65 miles to San Fernando,
Pampanga.
> Hampton Sides, author of Ghost Soldiers, estimates that 750 Americans and
> 5,000 Filipinos died on the march -- victims of starvation, disease, and
> random executions. (It should be noted that estimates vary widely. A study
> document put out by the Department of Veteran's Affairs puts the American
> deaths at 650 and Filipino deaths at 16,500. Forrest Johnson, author of
Hour
> of Redemption, puts the U.S. deaths at 2,275 and Filipino deaths between
> 9,000-14,000.
>
> On the march, the men witnessed arbitrary executions of their fellow
> American and Filipino soldiers and of Filipino civilians who had offered
> food or water to the marchers. Bert Bank remembers:
>
> One of the POWs had a ring on and the Japanese guard attempted to get the
> ring off. He couldn't get it off and he took a machete and cut the man's
> wrist off and when he did that, of course, the man was bleeding profusely.
> [I tried to help him] but when I looked back I saw a Japanese guard
sticking
> a bayonet through his stomach.
>
> On the second day, a fully pregnant Filipino woman threw some food out...
> this POW in front of me picked up the food and started eating it; and a
> Japanese guard came... and decapitated that POW... and then he went and
cut
> the stomach out of the Filipino woman. She was screaming "Kill me, Kill
me,"
> and they wouldn't do it.
>
> The POWs also experienced intense cruelty at the hands of their captors in
> Cabanatuan. All had witnessed hundreds of their compatriots die for lack
of
> food and medicine. All had witnessed torture and summary executions. All
had
> experienced Japanese brutality firsthand.
>
> Former POW Richard Beck remembered:
>
> It's a very sinking feeling to know that you are going to be abused for a
> long period of time, and that's exactly what it was, it was a long period
of
> abuse -- starvation, beatings... Some people were shot for no reason at
all,
> so you never knew how to assess the situation, whether you should try to
> lead a low profile. It was a case of never knowing how to cope.
>
> The Cabanatuan POWs' fear of becoming victims of another large scale
> massacre were well founded. After the war, it became clear that there
> existed a high command order -- issued from the War Ministry in Tokyo --
to
> kill all remaining POWs. This order, read in part:
>
> Whether they are destroyed individually or in groups, and whether it is
> accomplished by means of mass bombing, poisonous smoke, poisons, drowning,
> or decapitation, dispose of them as the situation dictates. It is the aim
> not to allow the escape of a single one, to annihilate them all, and not
to
> leave any traces
>
> It also became clear after the war that the Japanese were responsible for
> horrific abuses of POWs aboard tankers leaving the Philippines and bound
for
> Japan. These tankers became known as hell ships. The Japanese put masses
of
> men in the holds of tankers and gave them little food, light, room or
water.
> The men died at an alarming rate -- of suffocation, thirst, and madness.
> They also died of allied bombing , since the hell ships were not marked
with
> a white cross, as specified by the Geneva Conventions, to indicate POWs
were
> on board. The men who survived these tankers became slave laborers in
> Japanese mines and factories
>
> Throughout the Pacific theater, the Japanese treated POWs and civilians
> barbarically. Survivors of camps in Indonesia, Thailand, Singapore, Burma
> and Laos all reported experiencing tremendous cruelty, torture, disease
and
> starvation. It is an astounding fact that while POWs died at a rate of
1.2%
> in Germany, they died at a rate of 37% across the Pacific.
>
>
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.pbs...
>
>
>

And all of this four months after the armistice. Where in God's name were
our troops? Shame on them. They must have deserted, every last one of them!
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 2:14:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Polly Pentax wrote:

> On December 14, 1945, Japanese soldiers forced


The atrocities committed by all sides in WW II are beyond accounting.

Especially here.

Buzz off dumbasss.


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 2:14:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

The My Lai courts-martial are very sad tragedies from American involvement
in Viet Nam. One was the massacre by US soldiers of as many as 500 unarmed
civilians; old men, women, and children in My Lai on the morning of March
16, 1968. Another was the attempted cover-up of that massacre.

Human beings can be very inhuman and all nations have them.

I agree to the sadness but can't find an innocent nation nor can I decide
who should be punished first. I'm glad that you are such a clear thinker on
this subject and that you know exactly what to do.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 2:14:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On 20 Aug 2005 14:27:34 -0700, "wavelength" <sbrisendine@gmail.com>
wrote:

>And the Germans make great cars.
>

Reminds me of the parents of a girlfriend. Her father was a POW of the
Japanese so they boycotted products from there. So what did they buy?
Volkswagen cars, a Grundig television, a Bosch washing machine and
dish washer. Had to split with her seeing as the Germans bombed my
granny's house :) 
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 2:14:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <pANNe.5713$Us5.3248@fed1read02>, Mark² < here)@cox..net>
wrote:

> "Polly Pentax" <pentax@polly.com> wrote in message
> news:3mpkruF188sqbU1@individual.net...
> > On December 14, 1945, Japanese soldiers forced 150 American prisoners of
> > war at a compound on Palawan into an air-raid shelter. Then they doused
> > them with gasoline and threw in a matc
> >
> >
> > A few of the Americans, a very few, survived. Army PFC Eugene Nielson was
> > one of the survivors. He later described the atrocity to U.S. intelligence
> > officers
>
> When an 85 year-old, former Japanese prison guard
> tries to sell me a camera, I'll keep this in mind.
>
> In the meantime...perhaps you should move to the Middle East.
>
> There you will find millions of people willing to hold centuries-old
> grudges.

Or just move to Ireland. :-)

Seriouslym, what does all this have to do with cameras? (Apart from
the title of the thread, which has a rather tenuous connection to the
subject matter).

--Ron Bruck
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 2:20:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Ronald Bruck wrote:

> Seriouslym, what does all this have to do with cameras? (Apart from
> the title of the thread, which has a rather tenuous connection to the
> subject matter).
>
> --Ron Bruck

nothing, she is just a racist.
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 2:31:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"wavelength" <sbrisendine@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124573254.673591.115730@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> And the Germans make great cars.
>
> The American "indian killers" make great things too.
>
> Should we not buy Itailian suits because the Romans were such brutal
> emperors?
>
> Should I boycott gyros because of thing the Greeks did in ancient
> times?
>
> Should I boycott the French just because they annoy me?

____


You obviously haven't read the post, or the other well documented accounts
of Japanese atrocities - such as the live vivisection of captured American
pilots.

The only problem with the A-bomb's is that there were only two of them - the
opportunity should have been taken to sink Japan into the sea.
August 21, 2005 2:31:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Polly Pentax wrote:
>
> The only problem with the A-bomb's is that there were only two of them - the
> opportunity should have been taken to sink Japan into the sea.
>
>
Can you please wait to drop the 3rd A-bomb till after the release of the 5D?

--
Slack
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 3:11:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Charlie Self wrote:
>
> Polly Pentax wrote:
> > "Cockpit Colin" <spam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:vMNNe.4240$iM2.437978@news.xtra.co.nz...
> > > After wasting 5 minutes of my day reading this I don't understand what on
> > > earth it has to do with cameras. Are you suggesting that we should think
> > > twice about buying a camera that was designed and built by people who were
> > > born (and probably choose to live) in a certain part of the world because
> > > war atrocities were committed by some soldiers who also happened to be
> > > born in the same part of the world a generation or two before them?
> > >
> > > I wouldn't be at all surprised if todays generations of Japanise are just
> > > as disapproving of the actions of the war time soldiers as the rest of
> > > us - so why try to punish todays generation? - they weren't there - they
> > > didn't have anything to do with it.
> >
> >
> > Your attitude is pretty typical - and is one of the saddest aspects of the
> > entire tragedy.
> >
> > Sixty years is NOTHING! It's a mere 'blip', a momentary blink of an
> > eyelid - yet, already, the deaths of hundreds of thousands of men, women,
> > and children at the hands of the Japanese is irrelevant to those falling
> > over themselves to buy goods from their murderers.
> >
> > They died in agony - yet, in their most terrible anguish, I do not believe
> > for one moment that they thought their deaths would be so light regarded
> > within two short generations!
> >
> > Shame on you - real, genuine, and execrable SHAME!
>
> And you buy cameras made where? My camera is from a Japanese company,
> was assembled in the Phillipines and the lens was assembled in Vietnam.
> Yours?

Charlie, I am not sure where cameras come into her figuring. A quick
google shows that in her current guise she has made around six posts,
sparked off I think by my mentioning corner shop owners being asian.
Doubtless she has posted before, but under some other pretence with a
different alias. Brave scum eh?
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 3:12:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

And your point is what?

P.S.

You forgot to mention internment camps for Japanese-American citizens.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 3:12:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 23:12:34 GMT, Ed Lowe wrote:

> And your point is what?

Polly wants to be a cracker.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 3:32:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4307ACA9.3D71FE68@blueyonder.co.uk...
> Ronald Bruck wrote:
>
>> Seriouslym, what does all this have to do with cameras? (Apart from
>> the title of the thread, which has a rather tenuous connection to the
>> subject matter).
>>
>> --Ron Bruck
>
> nothing, she is just a racist.



As you are obviously a keen student of 'racism' (that's one of those trendy
'non-subjects', of course) I'm surprised that you haven't turned your
righteous indignation upon the Japanese - who were, are, and appear likely
to remain, one of *the* most racist nations on the face of the entire earth!

Every action they took in WW2 was impelled by their 'racism - as is their
current refusal to accept anything other than a trickle of immigrants into
Japan.

Surely you can whip up some anti Japanese fervour? - or are you like most
fearless anti-racists and subscribe to the popular view than only a white
man can be subject to that vice??
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 3:32:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Polly Pentax wrote:
>
> "Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:4307ACA9.3D71FE68@blueyonder.co.uk...
> > Ronald Bruck wrote:
> >
> >> Seriouslym, what does all this have to do with cameras? (Apart from
> >> the title of the thread, which has a rather tenuous connection to the
> >> subject matter).
> >>
> >> --Ron Bruck
> >
> > nothing, she is just a racist.
>
> As you are obviously a keen student of 'racism' (that's one of those trendy
> 'non-subjects', of course) I'm surprised that you haven't turned your
> righteous indignation upon the Japanese - who were, are, and appear likely
> to remain, one of *the* most racist nations on the face of the entire earth!
>
> Every action they took in WW2 was impelled by their 'racism - as is their
> current refusal to accept anything other than a trickle of immigrants into
> Japan.
>
> Surely you can whip up some anti Japanese fervour? - or are you like most
> fearless anti-racists and subscribe to the popular view than only a white
> man can be subject to that vice??

Not at all, but I think I have personally had not a jot of trouble
with the japanese and don't think I've heard of anyone else who has.
What happened is in the past. I'm not going to wish evil on the
children of someone who committed atrocities any more than I am going
to wish evil on your children... though I pity them

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 3:32:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 23:32:07 +0100, Polly Pentax, who really gets
around, wrote:

> Every action they took in WW2 was impelled by their 'racism - as is their
> current refusal to accept anything other than a trickle of immigrants into
> Japan.

How convenient that population density is not part of your
equation.


> Surely you can whip up some anti Japanese fervour? - or are you like most
> fearless anti-racists and subscribe to the popular view than only a white
> man can be subject to that vice??

That's not a popular view at all. It is, however, a view held
within a number of racist circles.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 3:38:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Wow...all this effort on something that we can do nothing about while right
now there are people and companies that are making every effort to turn the
US and the UK into exactly the same type of governments. Don't boycott the
Japanese and the Germans. Boycott Dell Computers, Wal-Mart Stores, Fox
Cable, Murdock newspapers et al.

--
Thanks,
Gene Palmiter
(visit my photo gallery at http://palmiter.dotphoto.com)
freebridge design group
www.route611.com & Route 611 Magazine
"Polly Pentax" <pentax@polly.com> wrote in message
news:3mpkruF188sqbU1@individual.net...
> On December 14, 1945, Japanese soldiers forced 150 American prisoners of
> war at a compound on Palawan into an air-raid shelter. Then they doused
> them with gasoline and threw in a matc
>
>
> A few of the Americans, a very few, survived. Army PFC Eugene Nielson was
> one of the survivors. He later described the atrocity to U.S. intelligence
> officers
>
> The trench smelled very strongly of gas. There was an explosion and flames
> shot throughout the place. Some of the guys were moaning. I realized this
> was it -- either I had to break for it or die. Luckily I was in the trench
> closest to the fence. So I jumped and dove through the barbed wire. I fell
> over the cliff and somehow grabbed hold of a small tree... There were
> Japanese soldiers down on the beach. I buried myself in a pile of garbage
> and coconut husks. I kept working my way under until I got fairly covered
> up... The Japanese were bayoneting [prisoners on the beach]. They shot or
> stabbed twelve Americans and then dug a shallow grave in the sand and
> threw them in.
>
> Nielsen hid in the garbage until the Japanese left. He then made a break
> for it but the Japanese saw him and started firing. He jumped into the sea
> and was shot several times. Miraculously, he lived and managed to
> escape -- swimming for nine hours and eventually finding his way through
> the Philippine jungle to American guerrilla forces
>
> It was Nielsen's story that helped convince the American Command to rescue
> the prisoners at Cabanatuan prison camp. It was also his story that made
> the prisoners of Cabanatuan particularly terrified.
>
> The Cabanatuan POWs had heard all about Palawan. They had assembled a
> secret radio and, in fact, knew a lot about American movements and
> successes in the war. The radio was ingenious. It was assembled inside a
> water canteen. Former POW James Hildebrand recalled how the prisoners
> tricked the Japanese into helping them build their secret radio
>
> ...[The guys] were fixing Japanese radios and they would take certain
> parts out and tell the Japanese those parts needed replacing, and it was
> up to the Japanese to get those parts. Well, the Japanese never asked for
> those parts back, and if you get enough parts you can make a radio, and
> that's exactly what they did. They fooled the Japanese.
>
> The news of Palawan terrified the POWs. Many felt that they were next.
> They believed that their Japanese captors were plotting their massacre.
> After all, they had all seen acts of Japanese brutality firsthand. Many
> had been through the infamous death march -- where the Japanese army had
> marched an estimated 72,000 Americans and Filipinos 65 miles to San
> Fernando, Pampanga. Hampton Sides, author of Ghost Soldiers, estimates
> that 750 Americans and 5,000 Filipinos died on the march -- victims of
> starvation, disease, and random executions. (It should be noted that
> estimates vary widely. A study document put out by the Department of
> Veteran's Affairs puts the American deaths at 650 and Filipino deaths at
> 16,500. Forrest Johnson, author of Hour of Redemption, puts the U.S.
> deaths at 2,275 and Filipino deaths between 9,000-14,000.
>
> On the march, the men witnessed arbitrary executions of their fellow
> American and Filipino soldiers and of Filipino civilians who had offered
> food or water to the marchers. Bert Bank remembers:
>
> One of the POWs had a ring on and the Japanese guard attempted to get the
> ring off. He couldn't get it off and he took a machete and cut the man's
> wrist off and when he did that, of course, the man was bleeding profusely.
> [I tried to help him] but when I looked back I saw a Japanese guard
> sticking a bayonet through his stomach.
>
> On the second day, a fully pregnant Filipino woman threw some food out...
> this POW in front of me picked up the food and started eating it; and a
> Japanese guard came... and decapitated that POW... and then he went and
> cut the stomach out of the Filipino woman. She was screaming "Kill me,
> Kill me," and they wouldn't do it.
>
> The POWs also experienced intense cruelty at the hands of their captors in
> Cabanatuan. All had witnessed hundreds of their compatriots die for lack
> of food and medicine. All had witnessed torture and summary executions.
> All had experienced Japanese brutality firsthand.
>
> Former POW Richard Beck remembered:
>
> It's a very sinking feeling to know that you are going to be abused for a
> long period of time, and that's exactly what it was, it was a long period
> of abuse -- starvation, beatings... Some people were shot for no reason at
> all, so you never knew how to assess the situation, whether you should try
> to lead a low profile. It was a case of never knowing how to cope.
>
> The Cabanatuan POWs' fear of becoming victims of another large scale
> massacre were well founded. After the war, it became clear that there
> existed a high command order -- issued from the War Ministry in Tokyo --
> to kill all remaining POWs. This order, read in part:
>
> Whether they are destroyed individually or in groups, and whether it is
> accomplished by means of mass bombing, poisonous smoke, poisons, drowning,
> or decapitation, dispose of them as the situation dictates. It is the aim
> not to allow the escape of a single one, to annihilate them all, and not
> to leave any traces
>
> It also became clear after the war that the Japanese were responsible for
> horrific abuses of POWs aboard tankers leaving the Philippines and bound
> for Japan. These tankers became known as hell ships. The Japanese put
> masses of men in the holds of tankers and gave them little food, light,
> room or water. The men died at an alarming rate -- of suffocation, thirst,
> and madness. They also died of allied bombing , since the hell ships were
> not marked with a white cross, as specified by the Geneva Conventions, to
> indicate POWs were on board. The men who survived these tankers became
> slave laborers in Japanese mines and factories
>
> Throughout the Pacific theater, the Japanese treated POWs and civilians
> barbarically. Survivors of camps in Indonesia, Thailand, Singapore, Burma
> and Laos all reported experiencing tremendous cruelty, torture, disease
> and starvation. It is an astounding fact that while POWs died at a rate of
> 1.2% in Germany, they died at a rate of 37% across the Pacific.
>
> http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.pbs...
>
>
>
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 4:35:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Ed Lowe" <elowe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:CNONe.2950$AT7.1392@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
> And your point is what?
>
> P.S.
>
> You forgot to mention internment camps for Japanese-American citizens. <<


Oh golly-gosh! - you're right!

Those were the camps where Japanese-Americans were beaten, starved, worked
to death, used for medical experiments, dissected whilst still alive, blown
up with small amounts of explosives to teach surgical techniques, used for
sword practice, infected with biological agents, subjected to chemical
weapons tests, raped, crucified, subjected to torture using a mask which was
continually filled with water that the victim was forced to keep drinking in
order to avoid drowning, burned alive, buried alive, and bayoneted for
sport - yes?

Or, come to think of it, weren't those the torments that the Japanese
subjected their own prisoners too? - didn't the American internee's have
clean cabins adequate food and medical care - plus a pay-out from Uncle Sam
when the war was over?

Yep - thought so.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 4:49:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Gene Palmiter" <palmiter_gene@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:S9PNe.1012$g47.852@trnddc07...
> Wow...all this effort on something that we can do nothing about while
> right now there are people and companies that are making every effort to
> turn the US and the UK into exactly the same type of governments. Don't
> boycott the Japanese and the Germans. Boycott Dell Computers, Wal-Mart
> Stores, Fox Cable, Murdock newspapers et al.


Possibly so - but I, for one, am truly sickened by the determined effort
made by many people to conveniently 'forget' about what the Nips did - and,
not just to Europeans, their conduct in China and conquered Asian countries
proved them to be less than human.

It's a sobering thought that many of the people on this newsgroup who
worship at the altar of Japanese technological advancement have no knowledge
of, or interest in, the savage nature of Japanese 'culture' (sic)

It's worth remembering that Mr Sansonichican has not always been so docile.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 4:53:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Scott Chapin" <rschapin@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:SaKdnUDaPJb3XJreRVn-tg@comcast.com...

>
> And all of this four months after the armistice. Where in God's name were
> our troops? Shame on them. They must have deserted, every last one of
> them!


Yes, I noticed the date - I put it down to an input error. There is
certainly no reason to doubt the accuracy of the events described - far
worse cruelty by the Japanese is already well documented history.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 4:53:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Polly Pentax" <pentax@polly.com> wrote in message
news:3mpu6iF1800rmU1@individual.net...
>
> "Scott Chapin" <rschapin@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:SaKdnUDaPJb3XJreRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>
> >
> > And all of this four months after the armistice. Where in God's name
were
> > our troops? Shame on them. They must have deserted, every last one of
> > them!
>
>
> Yes, I noticed the date - I put it down to an input error. There is
> certainly no reason to doubt the accuracy of the events described - far
> worse cruelty by the Japanese is already well documented history.
>
Some of my teachers were cruel. What revenge should I exact on them?
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 4:53:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 20:23:52 -0400, "Scott Chapin"
<rschapin@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>"Polly Pentax" <pentax@polly.com> wrote in message
>news:3mpu6iF1800rmU1@individual.net...
>>
>> "Scott Chapin" <rschapin@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:SaKdnUDaPJb3XJreRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>>
>> >
>> > And all of this four months after the armistice. Where in God's name
>were
>> > our troops? Shame on them. They must have deserted, every last one of
>> > them!
>>
>>
>> Yes, I noticed the date - I put it down to an input error. There is
>> certainly no reason to doubt the accuracy of the events described - far
>> worse cruelty by the Japanese is already well documented history.
>>
>Some of my teachers were cruel. What revenge should I exact on them?
>
Success is the best revenge. :-)

--
Bill Funk
Replace "g" with "a"
funktionality.blogspot.com
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 5:07:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:D e8gea$4l$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Polly Pentax wrote:
>
>> On December 14, 1945, Japanese soldiers forced
>
>
> The atrocities committed by all sides in WW II are beyond accounting.
>
> Especially here.<

On the contrary, given that this group is devoted to cameras, virtually all
of which are produced by Japanese companies, it's a very relevant topic

> Buzz off dumbasss.<


You have a devastating way with words, Allen San (Zzzzzzzzzzzz)
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 5:11:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Polly Pentax wrote:
>
> "Gene Palmiter" <palmiter_gene@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:S9PNe.1012$g47.852@trnddc07...
> > Wow...all this effort on something that we can do nothing about while
> > right now there are people and companies that are making every effort to
> > turn the US and the UK into exactly the same type of governments. Don't
> > boycott the Japanese and the Germans. Boycott Dell Computers, Wal-Mart
> > Stores, Fox Cable, Murdock newspapers et al.
>
> Possibly so - but I, for one, am truly sickened by the determined effort
> made by many people to conveniently 'forget' about what the Nips did - and,
> not just to Europeans, their conduct in China and conquered Asian countries
> proved them to be less than human.
>
> It's a sobering thought that many of the people on this newsgroup who
> worship at the altar of Japanese technological advancement have no knowledge
> of, or interest in, the savage nature of Japanese 'culture' (sic)
>
> It's worth remembering that Mr Sansonichican has not always been so docile.

do you have any atrocities committed by whites on other nationalities
or are all of your historical events the other way round? Can you show
the same dedication to other races?
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 5:12:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Scott Chapin wrote:
>
> "Polly Pentax" <pentax@polly.com> wrote in message
> news:3mpu6iF1800rmU1@individual.net...
> >
> > "Scott Chapin" <rschapin@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:SaKdnUDaPJb3XJreRVn-tg@comcast.com...
> >
> > >
> > > And all of this four months after the armistice. Where in God's name
> were
> > > our troops? Shame on them. They must have deserted, every last one of
> > > them!
> >
> >
> > Yes, I noticed the date - I put it down to an input error. There is
> > certainly no reason to doubt the accuracy of the events described - far
> > worse cruelty by the Japanese is already well documented history.
> >
> Some of my teachers were cruel. What revenge should I exact on them?

make them sit in a room with Polly :o )
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 5:12:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4307D4E6.1A9D9049@blueyonder.co.uk...
> Scott Chapin wrote:
> >
> > "Polly Pentax" <pentax@polly.com> wrote in message
> > news:3mpu6iF1800rmU1@individual.net...
> > >
> > > "Scott Chapin" <rschapin@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > news:SaKdnUDaPJb3XJreRVn-tg@comcast.com...
> > >
> > > >
> > > > And all of this four months after the armistice. Where in God's name
> > were
> > > > our troops? Shame on them. They must have deserted, every last one
of
> > > > them!
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, I noticed the date - I put it down to an input error. There is
> > > certainly no reason to doubt the accuracy of the events described -
far
> > > worse cruelty by the Japanese is already well documented history.
> > >
> > Some of my teachers were cruel. What revenge should I exact on them?
>
> make them sit in a room with Polly :o )
> --
> Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Stop and Look
> http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Good idea, but they're probably dead now. I know two are.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 5:13:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Charles Schuler wrote:
>
> The My Lai courts-martial are very sad tragedies from American involvement
> in Viet Nam. One was the massacre by US soldiers of as many as 500 unarmed
> civilians; old men, women, and children in My Lai on the morning of March
> 16, 1968. Another was the attempted cover-up of that massacre.
>
> Human beings can be very inhuman and all nations have them.
>
> I agree to the sadness but can't find an innocent nation nor can I decide
> who should be punished first. I'm glad that you are such a clear thinker on
> this subject and that you know exactly what to do.

She won't have an answer for this because she doesn't care about our
atrocities on other nations. If she does have an answer there will be
a 'but'

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 5:13:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Paul Heslop wrote:
> Charles Schuler wrote:
>>
>> The My Lai courts-martial are very sad tragedies from American
>> involvement in Viet Nam. One was the massacre by US soldiers of as
>> many as 500 unarmed civilians; old men, women, and children in My
>> Lai on the morning of March 16, 1968. Another was the attempted
>> cover-up of that massacre.
>>
>> Human beings can be very inhuman and all nations have them.
>>
>> I agree to the sadness but can't find an innocent nation nor can I
>> decide who should be punished first. I'm glad that you are such a
>> clear thinker on this subject and that you know exactly what to do.
>
> She won't have an answer for this because she doesn't care about our
> atrocities on other nations. If she does have an answer there will
> be
> a 'but'

buh-bye
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 5:23:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

From what innocent planet you are from?
Mars??
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 6:05:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

If Americans did not cut oil supplies???

Isn't that the height of irony...

T.
August 21, 2005 6:17:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 22:14:23 +0100, "Polly Pentax" <pentax@polly.com> wrote:

> On December 14, 1945, Japanese soldiers forced 150 American prisoners of

The war ended on August 16th 1945.

> war at a compound on Palawan into an air-raid shelter. Then they doused them
> with gasoline and threw in a matc

<snip>

So?

What about the American atrocities?

Fire bombings of Hamburg and Tokyo come readily to mind. Hundreds of thousands of civilians died in
those. Then there were the nukes.

And don't forget that the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was the fault of the Americans. If they
hadn't cut off oil supplies to Japan, then Pearl Harbor would never have happened.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 8:23:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Did you reply to the wrong post? I wonder if in 60 years there will be
anybody named George like there are no Adolfs now-a-days. Germans, by the
way, are white....and that was a big issue with them.

--
Thanks,
Gene Palmiter
(visit my photo gallery at http://palmiter.dotphoto.com)
freebridge design group
www.route611.com & Route 611 Magazine
"Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4307D4BA.2A4520F2@blueyonder.co.uk...
> Polly Pentax wrote:
>>
>> "Gene Palmiter" <palmiter_gene@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:S9PNe.1012$g47.852@trnddc07...
>> > Wow...all this effort on something that we can do nothing about while
>> > right now there are people and companies that are making every effort
>> > to
>> > turn the US and the UK into exactly the same type of governments. Don't
>> > boycott the Japanese and the Germans. Boycott Dell Computers, Wal-Mart
>> > Stores, Fox Cable, Murdock newspapers et al.
>>
>> Possibly so - but I, for one, am truly sickened by the determined effort
>> made by many people to conveniently 'forget' about what the Nips did -
>> and,
>> not just to Europeans, their conduct in China and conquered Asian
>> countries
>> proved them to be less than human.
>>
>> It's a sobering thought that many of the people on this newsgroup who
>> worship at the altar of Japanese technological advancement have no
>> knowledge
>> of, or interest in, the savage nature of Japanese 'culture' (sic)
>>
>> It's worth remembering that Mr Sansonichican has not always been so
>> docile.
>
> do you have any atrocities committed by whites on other nationalities
> or are all of your historical events the other way round? Can you show
> the same dedication to other races?
> --
> Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Stop and Look
> http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 8:33:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

This is likely a typo. Because of their Emperor worship the Japanese pretty
much gave up completely when the Emperor told them to do so. US soldiers had
a pretty easy time during the occupation of Japan...so easy in fact that
they were out of condition for Korea.

In Germany, however, there was no one of authority to tell the people to
cooperate. There was a German resistance to the occupation. They wrote USA
on walls but it stood for something like Unser S***** Adolf...or our (maybe
beloved) Adolf. Wires were so commonly strung across roads to take off the
heads of soldiers driving jeeps that we started welding upright bars to the
bumpers.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 8:44:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

> You forgot to mention internment camps for Japanese-American citizens.


I am not so certain that the Interment camps were that wrong. It would not
have safe for them to live outside the camps. While their property should
have been protected too, the camps might have been the only way to protect
them.

I was not uncommon for Japanese-Americans to send their children to Japan
for a period for cultural education. What became of these children during
the war? Could they have been used to force parents to take part in
sabotage? Could they have returned to the states and caused trouble? Did
they join the Japanese Armed services? We do know that Japanese Americans
stuck in Japan during the war did help the Japanese war effort...Tokyo Rose
was an American citizen. She was tried and convicted for her activities but
was later pardoned.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 11:52:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Bill Funk" <BigBill@pipping.com.com> wrote in message
news:5o1gg15mhjnn5j4taeql016m56ncllj6ca@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 20:23:52 -0400, "Scott Chapin"
> <rschapin@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Polly Pentax" <pentax@polly.com> wrote in message
> >news:3mpu6iF1800rmU1@individual.net...
> >>
> >> "Scott Chapin" <rschapin@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >> news:SaKdnUDaPJb3XJreRVn-tg@comcast.com...
> >>
> >> >
> >> > And all of this four months after the armistice. Where in God's name
> >were
> >> > our troops? Shame on them. They must have deserted, every last one of
> >> > them!
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, I noticed the date - I put it down to an input error. There is
> >> certainly no reason to doubt the accuracy of the events described - far
> >> worse cruelty by the Japanese is already well documented history.
> >>
> >Some of my teachers were cruel. What revenge should I exact on them?
> >
> Success is the best revenge. :-)
>
> --
> Bill Funk


Indeed Bill, indeed. Being better them is good enough. What ever happened
to "Love thy enemies"?


Scott
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 12:15:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Gene Palmiter wrote:
>
> Did you reply to the wrong post? I wonder if in 60 years there will be
> anybody named George like there are no Adolfs now-a-days. Germans, by the
> way, are white....and that was a big issue with them.
>
Sorry, Gene, I was asking HER to give me an example of a white on
other race atrocity which affects her as much as it does the other way
round.

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 12:16:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Scott Chapin wrote:
>
> "Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:4307D4E6.1A9D9049@blueyonder.co.uk...
> > Scott Chapin wrote:
> > >
> > > "Polly Pentax" <pentax@polly.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3mpu6iF1800rmU1@individual.net...
> > > >
> > > > "Scott Chapin" <rschapin@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:SaKdnUDaPJb3XJreRVn-tg@comcast.com...
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And all of this four months after the armistice. Where in God's name
> > > were
> > > > > our troops? Shame on them. They must have deserted, every last one
> of
> > > > > them!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes, I noticed the date - I put it down to an input error. There is
> > > > certainly no reason to doubt the accuracy of the events described -
> far
> > > > worse cruelty by the Japanese is already well documented history.
> > > >
> > > Some of my teachers were cruel. What revenge should I exact on them?
> >
> > make them sit in a room with Polly :o )
> > --
> > Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > Stop and Look
> > http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
>
> Good idea, but they're probably dead now. I know two are.

True... a more painful thing I couldn't wish on my worst enemy.
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 12:17:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Gene Palmiter wrote:
>
> This is likely a typo. Because of their Emperor worship the Japanese pretty
> much gave up completely when the Emperor told them to do so. US soldiers had
> a pretty easy time during the occupation of Japan...so easy in fact that
> they were out of condition for Korea.
>
> In Germany, however, there was no one of authority to tell the people to
> cooperate. There was a German resistance to the occupation. They wrote USA
> on walls but it stood for something like Unser S***** Adolf...or our (maybe
> beloved) Adolf. Wires were so commonly strung across roads to take off the
> heads of soldiers driving jeeps that we started welding upright bars to the
> bumpers.

I did a little google and it may be 1944
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 1:14:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 07:52:29 -0400, "Scott Chapin"
<rschapin@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>"Bill Funk" <BigBill@pipping.com.com> wrote in message
>news:5o1gg15mhjnn5j4taeql016m56ncllj6ca@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 20:23:52 -0400, "Scott Chapin"
>> <rschapin@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Polly Pentax" <pentax@polly.com> wrote in message
>> >news:3mpu6iF1800rmU1@individual.net...
>> >>
>> >> "Scott Chapin" <rschapin@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:SaKdnUDaPJb3XJreRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > And all of this four months after the armistice. Where in God's name
>> >were
>> >> > our troops? Shame on them. They must have deserted, every last one of
>> >> > them!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Yes, I noticed the date - I put it down to an input error. There is
>> >> certainly no reason to doubt the accuracy of the events described - far
>> >> worse cruelty by the Japanese is already well documented history.
>> >>
>> >Some of my teachers were cruel. What revenge should I exact on them?
>> >
>> Success is the best revenge. :-)
>>
>> --
>> Bill Funk
>
>
> Indeed Bill, indeed. Being better them is good enough. What ever happened
>to "Love thy enemies"?
>
>
>Scott
>
In many cases, the enemies made it too difficult. They took advantage.
Then they got elected. :-)

--
Bill Funk
Replace "g" with "a"
funktionality.blogspot.com
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 2:03:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

After wasting 5 minutes of my day reading this I don't understand what on
earth it has to do with cameras. Are you suggesting that we should think
twice about buying a camera that was designed and built by people who were
born (and probably choose to live) in a certain part of the world because
war atrocities were committed by some soldiers who also happened to be born
in the same part of the world a generation or two before them?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if todays generations of Japanise are just as
disapproving of the actions of the war time soldiers as the rest of us - so
why try to punish todays generation? - they weren't there - they didn't have
anything to do with it.


"Polly Pentax" <pentax@polly.com> wrote in message
news:3mpkruF188sqbU1@individual.net...
> On December 14, 1945, Japanese soldiers forced 150 American prisoners of
> war at a compound on Palawan into an air-raid shelter. Then they doused
> them with gasoline and threw in a matc
>
>
> A few of the Americans, a very few, survived. Army PFC Eugene Nielson was
> one of the survivors. He later described the atrocity to U.S. intelligence
> officers
>
> The trench smelled very strongly of gas. There was an explosion and flames
> shot throughout the place. Some of the guys were moaning. I realized this
> was it -- either I had to break for it or die. Luckily I was in the trench
> closest to the fence. So I jumped and dove through the barbed wire. I fell
> over the cliff and somehow grabbed hold of a small tree... There were
> Japanese soldiers down on the beach. I buried myself in a pile of garbage
> and coconut husks. I kept working my way under until I got fairly covered
> up... The Japanese were bayoneting [prisoners on the beach]. They shot or
> stabbed twelve Americans and then dug a shallow grave in the sand and
> threw them in.
>
> Nielsen hid in the garbage until the Japanese left. He then made a break
> for it but the Japanese saw him and started firing. He jumped into the sea
> and was shot several times. Miraculously, he lived and managed to
> escape -- swimming for nine hours and eventually finding his way through
> the Philippine jungle to American guerrilla forces
>
> It was Nielsen's story that helped convince the American Command to rescue
> the prisoners at Cabanatuan prison camp. It was also his story that made
> the prisoners of Cabanatuan particularly terrified.
>
> The Cabanatuan POWs had heard all about Palawan. They had assembled a
> secret radio and, in fact, knew a lot about American movements and
> successes in the war. The radio was ingenious. It was assembled inside a
> water canteen. Former POW James Hildebrand recalled how the prisoners
> tricked the Japanese into helping them build their secret radio
>
> ...[The guys] were fixing Japanese radios and they would take certain
> parts out and tell the Japanese those parts needed replacing, and it was
> up to the Japanese to get those parts. Well, the Japanese never asked for
> those parts back, and if you get enough parts you can make a radio, and
> that's exactly what they did. They fooled the Japanese.
>
> The news of Palawan terrified the POWs. Many felt that they were next.
> They believed that their Japanese captors were plotting their massacre.
> After all, they had all seen acts of Japanese brutality firsthand. Many
> had been through the infamous death march -- where the Japanese army had
> marched an estimated 72,000 Americans and Filipinos 65 miles to San
> Fernando, Pampanga. Hampton Sides, author of Ghost Soldiers, estimates
> that 750 Americans and 5,000 Filipinos died on the march -- victims of
> starvation, disease, and random executions. (It should be noted that
> estimates vary widely. A study document put out by the Department of
> Veteran's Affairs puts the American deaths at 650 and Filipino deaths at
> 16,500. Forrest Johnson, author of Hour of Redemption, puts the U.S.
> deaths at 2,275 and Filipino deaths between 9,000-14,000.
>
> On the march, the men witnessed arbitrary executions of their fellow
> American and Filipino soldiers and of Filipino civilians who had offered
> food or water to the marchers. Bert Bank remembers:
>
> One of the POWs had a ring on and the Japanese guard attempted to get the
> ring off. He couldn't get it off and he took a machete and cut the man's
> wrist off and when he did that, of course, the man was bleeding profusely.
> [I tried to help him] but when I looked back I saw a Japanese guard
> sticking a bayonet through his stomach.
>
> On the second day, a fully pregnant Filipino woman threw some food out...
> this POW in front of me picked up the food and started eating it; and a
> Japanese guard came... and decapitated that POW... and then he went and
> cut the stomach out of the Filipino woman. She was screaming "Kill me,
> Kill me," and they wouldn't do it.
>
> The POWs also experienced intense cruelty at the hands of their captors in
> Cabanatuan. All had witnessed hundreds of their compatriots die for lack
> of food and medicine. All had witnessed torture and summary executions.
> All had experienced Japanese brutality firsthand.
>
> Former POW Richard Beck remembered:
>
> It's a very sinking feeling to know that you are going to be abused for a
> long period of time, and that's exactly what it was, it was a long period
> of abuse -- starvation, beatings... Some people were shot for no reason at
> all, so you never knew how to assess the situation, whether you should try
> to lead a low profile. It was a case of never knowing how to cope.
>
> The Cabanatuan POWs' fear of becoming victims of another large scale
> massacre were well founded. After the war, it became clear that there
> existed a high command order -- issued from the War Ministry in Tokyo --
> to kill all remaining POWs. This order, read in part:
>
> Whether they are destroyed individually or in groups, and whether it is
> accomplished by means of mass bombing, poisonous smoke, poisons, drowning,
> or decapitation, dispose of them as the situation dictates. It is the aim
> not to allow the escape of a single one, to annihilate them all, and not
> to leave any traces
>
> It also became clear after the war that the Japanese were responsible for
> horrific abuses of POWs aboard tankers leaving the Philippines and bound
> for Japan. These tankers became known as hell ships. The Japanese put
> masses of men in the holds of tankers and gave them little food, light,
> room or water. The men died at an alarming rate -- of suffocation, thirst,
> and madness. They also died of allied bombing , since the hell ships were
> not marked with a white cross, as specified by the Geneva Conventions, to
> indicate POWs were on board. The men who survived these tankers became
> slave laborers in Japanese mines and factories
>
> Throughout the Pacific theater, the Japanese treated POWs and civilians
> barbarically. Survivors of camps in Indonesia, Thailand, Singapore, Burma
> and Laos all reported experiencing tremendous cruelty, torture, disease
> and starvation. It is an astounding fact that while POWs died at a rate of
> 1.2% in Germany, they died at a rate of 37% across the Pacific.
>
> http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.pbs...
>
>
>
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 2:03:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Cockpit Colin wrote:
>
> After wasting 5 minutes of my day reading this I don't understand what on
> earth it has to do with cameras. Are you suggesting that we should think
> twice about buying a camera that was designed and built by people who were
> born (and probably choose to live) in a certain part of the world because
> war atrocities were committed by some soldiers who also happened to be born
> in the same part of the world a generation or two before them?
>
> I wouldn't be at all surprised if todays generations of Japanise are just as
> disapproving of the actions of the war time soldiers as the rest of us - so
> why try to punish todays generation? - they weren't there - they didn't have
> anything to do with it.
>
they have actualy sworn never to go to war again, which is more than
we can say for us more civilised countries eh?


--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 2:03:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Cockpit Colin" <spam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:vMNNe.4240$iM2.437978@news.xtra.co.nz...
> After wasting 5 minutes of my day reading this I don't understand what on
> earth it has to do with cameras. Are you suggesting that we should think
> twice about buying a camera that was designed and built by people who were
> born (and probably choose to live) in a certain part of the world because
> war atrocities were committed by some soldiers who also happened to be
> born in the same part of the world a generation or two before them?
>
> I wouldn't be at all surprised if todays generations of Japanise are just
> as disapproving of the actions of the war time soldiers as the rest of
> us - so why try to punish todays generation? - they weren't there - they
> didn't have anything to do with it.


Your attitude is pretty typical - and is one of the saddest aspects of the
entire tragedy.

Sixty years is NOTHING! It's a mere 'blip', a momentary blink of an
eyelid - yet, already, the deaths of hundreds of thousands of men, women,
and children at the hands of the Japanese is irrelevant to those falling
over themselves to buy goods from their murderers.

They died in agony - yet, in their most terrible anguish, I do not believe
for one moment that they thought their deaths would be so light regarded
within two short generations!

Shame on you - real, genuine, and execrable SHAME!
August 21, 2005 2:03:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Thought the war ended in August 1945, how come this all happened in December
1945?

"Polly Pentax" <pentax@polly.com> wrote in message
news:3mpoukF17taroU1@individual.net...
>
> "Cockpit Colin" <spam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:vMNNe.4240$iM2.437978@news.xtra.co.nz...
>> After wasting 5 minutes of my day reading this I don't understand what on
>> earth it has to do with cameras. Are you suggesting that we should think
>> twice about buying a camera that was designed and built by people who
>> were born (and probably choose to live) in a certain part of the world
>> because war atrocities were committed by some soldiers who also happened
>> to be born in the same part of the world a generation or two before them?
>>
>> I wouldn't be at all surprised if todays generations of Japanise are just
>> as disapproving of the actions of the war time soldiers as the rest of
>> us - so why try to punish todays generation? - they weren't there - they
>> didn't have anything to do with it.
>
>
> Your attitude is pretty typical - and is one of the saddest aspects of the
> entire tragedy.
>
> Sixty years is NOTHING! It's a mere 'blip', a momentary blink of an
> eyelid - yet, already, the deaths of hundreds of thousands of men, women,
> and children at the hands of the Japanese is irrelevant to those falling
> over themselves to buy goods from their murderers.
>
> They died in agony - yet, in their most terrible anguish, I do not believe
> for one moment that they thought their deaths would be so light regarded
> within two short generations!
>
> Shame on you - real, genuine, and execrable SHAME!
>
>
>
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 2:03:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 22:21:46 GMT, Paul Heslop
<paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>Cockpit Colin wrote:
>>
>> After wasting 5 minutes of my day reading this I don't understand what on
>> earth it has to do with cameras. Are you suggesting that we should think
>> twice about buying a camera that was designed and built by people who were
>> born (and probably choose to live) in a certain part of the world because
>> war atrocities were committed by some soldiers who also happened to be born
>> in the same part of the world a generation or two before them?
>>
>> I wouldn't be at all surprised if todays generations of Japanise are just as
>> disapproving of the actions of the war time soldiers as the rest of us - so
>> why try to punish todays generation? - they weren't there - they didn't have
>> anything to do with it.
>>
>they have actualy sworn never to go to war again, which is more than
>we can say for us more civilised countries eh?

They did?
When?
I think that would be a big surprise to the Japanese, since they never
swore off war.
If you are trying to say that their constitution forbids more than a
self-defence force militarilly, you'd be a lot closer to the truth.
However, events are overtaking that, too.

--
Bill Funk
Replace "g" with "a"
funktionality.blogspot.com
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 2:03:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Bill Funk wrote:
>
> On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 22:21:46 GMT, Paul Heslop
> <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Cockpit Colin wrote:
> >>
> >> After wasting 5 minutes of my day reading this I don't understand what on
> >> earth it has to do with cameras. Are you suggesting that we should think
> >> twice about buying a camera that was designed and built by people who were
> >> born (and probably choose to live) in a certain part of the world because
> >> war atrocities were committed by some soldiers who also happened to be born
> >> in the same part of the world a generation or two before them?
> >>
> >> I wouldn't be at all surprised if todays generations of Japanise are just as
> >> disapproving of the actions of the war time soldiers as the rest of us - so
> >> why try to punish todays generation? - they weren't there - they didn't have
> >> anything to do with it.
> >>
> >they have actualy sworn never to go to war again, which is more than
> >we can say for us more civilised countries eh?
>
> They did?
> When?
> I think that would be a big surprise to the Japanese, since they never
> swore off war.
> If you are trying to say that their constitution forbids more than a
> self-defence force militarilly, you'd be a lot closer to the truth.
> However, events are overtaking that, too.
>
> --
> Bill Funk
> Replace "g" with "a"
> funktionality.blogspot.com

To be honest this one I picked up from a recent documentary, but I may
have heard wrong and they may have banned nuclear warfare.
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 2:03:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 08:07:16 GMT, Paul Heslop
<paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>> >they have actualy sworn never to go to war again, which is more than
>> >we can say for us more civilised countries eh?
>>
>> They did?
>> When?
>> I think that would be a big surprise to the Japanese, since they never
>> swore off war.
>> If you are trying to say that their constitution forbids more than a
>> self-defence force militarilly, you'd be a lot closer to the truth.
>> However, events are overtaking that, too.
>>
>> --
>> Bill Funk
>> Replace "g" with "a"
>> funktionality.blogspot.com
>
>To be honest this one I picked up from a recent documentary, but I may
>have heard wrong and they may have banned nuclear warfare.
>--
>Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")

A very common defect of "documentaries", nowadays. They very often
aren't documenting, but rather applying an agenda to semi-historical
backgrounds.
As an example, I'm eagerly awaiting my copy of the next National
Geographic, which purports to tell us the "truth" about Africa. We'll
see if the truth turns out to be that we, the "West", need to pour out
more money to it.
But then, I'm a cynic.

--
Bill Funk
Replace "g" with "a"
funktionality.blogspot.com
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
August 21, 2005 5:42:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Bill Funk" <BigBill@pipping.com.com> wrote in message
news:hg9hg11tu038ctulgk2t012s2ti30m7gnu@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 08:07:16 GMT, Paul Heslop
> <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>> >they have actualy sworn never to go to war again, which is more than
>>> >we can say for us more civilised countries eh?
>>>
>>> They did?
>>> When?
>>> I think that would be a big surprise to the Japanese, since they never
>>> swore off war.
>>> If you are trying to say that their constitution forbids more than a
>>> self-defence force militarilly, you'd be a lot closer to the truth.
>>> However, events are overtaking that, too.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bill Funk
>>> Replace "g" with "a"
>>> funktionality.blogspot.com
>>
>>To be honest this one I picked up from a recent documentary, but I may
>>have heard wrong and they may have banned nuclear warfare.
>>--
>>Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
>
> A very common defect of "documentaries", nowadays. They very often
> aren't documenting, but rather applying an agenda to semi-historical
> backgrounds.
> As an example, I'm eagerly awaiting my copy of the next National
> Geographic, which purports to tell us the "truth" about Africa. We'll
> see if the truth turns out to be that we, the "West", need to pour out
> more money to it.
> But then, I'm a cynic.

Part of the "truth" about many parts of Africa is that unless the major
effort is put into making real *cultural* changes, the money will go right
down the tubes. Cultural changes are extremely difficult to induce with
money.
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