Thoughts on building a new PC (coming from an E6600)

[fishboi]

As you can see from my sig, I havent bought new hardware in years. My build has held up exceptionally well (just over 6 years now). It was great bang for my buck amortized over so many years. But it's been so long that I've become out of touch with whats hot in the hardware space.

The catalyst for wanting to build a new PC has been mind numbingly slow Handbrake encoding times for 1080p/Blu Ray. It takes like half a day to get one movie done. My main goal would be to have MUCH quicker encoding times (like quadrupole the speed).

Secondary to this is gaming. I dont game much anymore. I used to game 24/7 when I had more time. I am however totally psyched over COH2 coming out in middle of next year. That was the best RTS ever made and I want to be ready for the sequel with a sick system so I can dominate in multilayer, haha. I may dabble in a bit of WoW with the new xpac, not sure yet.

Third, I need gigabit internet. Transferring shows from my Tivo and NAS is ZZZZZ. Time to upgrade.

Fourth, transferring photos from my SLR to my desktop is ridiculous. Takes 1 hour for my 32GB card. I need USB 3.0.

Fifth, Windows startup time and loading programs is creeping these days. Very irritating. I need to be able to open Adobe Lightroom and process photos at 100X the speed I'm doing it now. Its soooo slow.

Sixth, I need a new 24" monitor. I'm using an old Acer and now that I'm into photography, probably need to get an IPS panel that can still game.

I think I have two options:
1) get an i5-2500k CPU with mobo for overclock, with new CPU cooler and RAM (keep my PSU, case, old blu ray drive, two very old 320GB Seagate drives, 1 Samsung 2TB slow 5900 rpm drive, and use my existing Radeon HD 5770). I can then buy a new v-card and SSD next year when COH2 comes out to give me better FPS/performance.
2) Wait for Haswell and then do a complete new build (I could justify dropping big $$$ on a complete new build at that point since it would have been nearly 7 years).

What do you guys think? I can wait, I'm not a train wreck yet. I also dont want to be disappointed next year with COH2 if my system is sub-par to others. But if I can get better encoding performance now, and close the FPS gap next year with a new v-card, then I'm open to it.

I welcome your thoughts. TIA!!!

E6600 @3.33Ghz | P5W DH Deluxe @370Mhz FSB | Thermalright Ultra-120 | MSI x1900xt | 2GB OCZ Plat Rev2 @740Mhz, 4-4-4-12 | Seagate Barracuda 320GB | 3DMark06: 6461 (5902 stock) | PCMark05: 8552 (6950 stock) | Temps: 45 Idle, 70 Load

 

[inzone]

Something is always coming out for new hardware releases and to jump in now might be a good thing for your Blue-Ray encoding but not for the eventual gaming with the release of the game COH2 which as we all know can be delayed like most games. It's really a decision the you have to make for your needs and desires. If you want to break it down into two parts with the Blue-ray now and the game later you can do that and it would make sense because by the time the game is released the new video cards for the next generation will be starting to come out and you could grab one of those for really good game play.
For now the Intel i7-2700k and a new motherboard and ram would be a good start.

Intel Core i7-2700K Sandy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 3000 BX80623i72700K
$309.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115095

ZALMAN CNPS9900MAX-B 135mm Long life bearing CPU Cooler Blue LED
$70.99 and a $10 rebate makes the final price $60.99.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118074

ASUS P8Z68-V/GEN3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
$174.99 and a $20 rebate makes the final price $154.99.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131792

CORSAIR Vengeance LP 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 Desktop Memory Model CML16GX3M4A1866C9
$119.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233328

Pioneer Black 12X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 10X BD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA Internal BD/DVD/CD Writer BDR-207DBKS
$89.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129067

I added a new blue ray burner since it only makes sense to get a new burner along with the other new components. If your budget is high enough then you could get this upgrade , the cost of this upgrade is $765.95.

 

[inzone]

Once the new game hits the streets all you then would have to get is the SSD , video card and possibly a new psu (recomended). Then you would have a complete makeover and be ready to roll.

 

[popatim]

I would suggest 2x8gb ram rather than 4x4gb; and the hyper212+ evo is half the price an almost as great a cooler. Other than that , its a pretty good build suggestion and i7 is the way to go if you can afford the extra $.

for your other points
3: gigabit wont help you unless both ends and everything in between are gigabit.
This likely means a router upgrade for you.

4: USB3 wont help you transfer files from your camera card typically. Transfer speed's limiting factor is usually the card itselfd and usb3 wont speed it up. You want faster transfer speed then you need a faster card.
The next limiting factor is the transferring device. You dont say whether you use your camera to do this or a card reader. Currently the fastest cards are SD UHS1. The fastest SD card I know of read/writes at 90-95mb/s So a decent USB3 card reader supporting that format shold provide full transfer speed. Your camera would also need to support UHS1 to use those cards. usb2 only goes up to around 40mb/s.

5: windows/program load speed wont improve 100x but a nice fast ssd or pair of ssd's in raid0 can make a dramatic improvement. So you might want to consider two smaller ssd'd over one larger one. Just be sure to research the drawbacks of running raid0 on ssd's which to me is the loss of trim support.


as for when to upgrade? IMO if you can wait for haswell then do so. Has well should be a nice performance increase over Sandy Bridge.

 

[fishboi]

Something is always coming out for new hardware releases and to jump in now might be a good thing for your Blue-Ray encoding but not for the eventual gaming with the release of the game COH2 which as we all know can be delayed like most games. It's really a decision the you have to make for your needs and desires. If you want to break it down into two parts with the Blue-ray now and the game later you can do that and it would make sense because by the time the game is released the new video cards for the next generation will be starting to come out and you could grab one of those for really good game play.
For now the Intel i7-2700k and a new motherboard and ram would be a good start.

Intel Core i7-2700K Sandy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 3000 BX80623i72700K
$309.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115095

ZALMAN CNPS9900MAX-B 135mm Long life bearing CPU Cooler Blue LED
$70.99 and a $10 rebate makes the final price $60.99.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118074

ASUS P8Z68-V/GEN3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
$174.99 and a $20 rebate makes the final price $154.99.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131792

CORSAIR Vengeance LP 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 Desktop Memory Model CML16GX3M4A1866C9
$119.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233328

Pioneer Black 12X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 10X BD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA Internal BD/DVD/CD Writer BDR-207DBKS
$89.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129067

I added a new blue ray burner since it only makes sense to get a new burner along with the other new components. If your budget is high enough then you could get this upgrade , the cost of this upgrade is $765.95.

Wow thanks for this. Helps me a lot in starting to look at components. Adding a faster Blu Ray drive now may also be a good idea, seeing as though they are only $90. You make a good point about the game being delayed. I will regret not jumping now if it comes out in Dec 2013. If it comes out in Feb 2013 or just after Haswell, then waiting would be the right choice. Its a bit of a gamble. I could probably hold out for a while, but I'm getting itchy. The encodes are killing me, especially when there is an error. I have to restart the entire process. TY InZone.

 

[fishboi]

Once the new game hits the streets all you then would have to get is the SSD , video card and possibly a new psu (recomended). Then you would have a complete makeover and be ready to roll.

Does a SSD really speed up gaming, or is it more for starting programs and moving files? Does a better SSD increase FPS for example?

On the PSU - I have an Antec NeoHe 550. Its held up just fine, but I havent researched the power connectors with new v-cards etc. Would this PSU hold? I prefer to replace stuff when it breaks or when it absolutely has to be replaced. TY TY.

 

[fishboi]

I would suggest 2x8gb ram rather than 4x4gb; and the hyper212+ evo is half the price an almost as great a cooler. Other than that , its a pretty good build suggestion and i7 is the way to go if you can afford the extra $.

for your other points
3: gigabit wont help you unless both ends and everything in between are gigabit.
This likely means a router upgrade for you.

4: USB3 wont help you transfer files from your camera card typically. Transfer speed's limiting factor is usually the card itselfd and usb3 wont speed it up. You want faster transfer speed then you need a faster card.
The next limiting factor is the transferring device. You dont say whether you use your camera to do this or a card reader. Currently the fastest cards are SD UHS1. The fastest SD card I know of read/writes at 90-95mb/s So a decent USB3 card reader supporting that format shold provide full transfer speed. Your camera would also need to support UHS1 to use those cards. usb2 only goes up to around 40mb/s.

5: windows/program load speed wont improve 100x but a nice fast ssd or pair of ssd's in raid0 can make a dramatic improvement. So you might want to consider two smaller ssd'd over one larger one. Just be sure to research the drawbacks of running raid0 on ssd's which to me is the loss of trim support.


as for when to upgrade? IMO if you can wait for haswell then do so. Has well should be a nice performance increase over Sandy Bridge.

I have a gigabit router, the Asus Black Diamond. All cabling is Cat5e. My Tivo Quad is gigabit. I'm getting a Synology NAS which will be gigabit. The only thing that really grates me is that my WD LIVE HUB claims to be gigabit in their specs, but the device does not actually offer a gigabit connection. It should be illegal for companies to do that. Anyway, I'll be streaming from the NAS to 4 different rooms and will eventually upgrade the media players. Just nothing on the market thats gigabit thats under $100 as far as I know. Been about 6 months since I last looked.

On the photo transfer - I have a SanDisk 32GB Extreme HD 45mb/s card. My Canon T3i does support UHS-1 cards, but again, doesnt allow for UHS-1 speeds. How the F can there companies market products like this!!! Anyway, I would probably get a card reader with this build. I dont know if UHS-1 will take full advantage of USB 3.0, or if 2.0 is enough headroom. Still need to research that.

Does RAID 0 really increase speed that much? I remember reading about it a few years back. Was like a 10% increase in performance, but 100% increase in chance of failure now that you've added two drives. That risk reward never really appealed to me. But if its a big bump up in speed, I would fully agree, two small drives vs one big drive would make a lot of sense.

And again, on the waiting game. I think I can stick it out but it will be tough. Will Haswell allow for a big jump in encoding performance? I know it will have an integrated GPU, which is something I wont use. Maybe Handbrake will release a version of their software that takes advantage of the IGPU, I dont know. But if Haswell will be a 20%+ increase in encoding performance, with a 10% increase in FPS in games, then I will probably want to stick it out. I know its impossible to really know and its all speculation, but does your gut tell you it will achieve these results?

TY TY guys! Keep 'em coming.

 

[fishboi]

Oh by the way, I have a Thermalright Ultra 120 Heatsink that went on my E6600 and P5W DH Deluxe. Would this heatsink work with the i7 2600k? TY TY.

 

[inzone]

Oh by the way, I have a Thermalright Ultra 120 Heatsink that went on my E6600 and P5W DH Deluxe. Would this heatsink work with the i7 2600k? TY TY.

This heatsink was most likely purchased before Sandy Bridge came out so it would not have the adaptor for the LGA 1155 socket and most likely has the adaptors for the 1366 socket. If you want to use this heatsink then you would have to get the adaptor for the LGA 1155 socket.

 

[inzone]

Does a SSD really speed up gaming, or is it more for starting programs and moving files? Does a better SSD increase FPS for example?

On the PSU - I have an Antec NeoHe 550. Its held up just fine, but I havent researched the power connectors with new v-cards etc. Would this PSU hold? I prefer to replace stuff when it breaks or when it absolutely has to be replaced. TY TY.

The SSD speeds up the overall performance of the Pc and would be a good thing to have for your encoding as it may speed up the program , for gaming though the only benefit would be that the maps would load faster.

The psu is something that is not going to last forever and depending on when you bought it if you get 5-7 years out of it your doing good and maybe it will last longer but at some point you should change it out on your terms and not because of a failure. To have the psu fail during the process of encoding an important project would not be good. But the decision to replace does fall to you and what you want to do.

 

[inzone]

Wow thanks for this. Helps me a lot in starting to look at components. Adding a faster Blu Ray drive now may also be a good idea, seeing as though they are only $90. You make a good point about the game being delayed. I will regret not jumping now if it comes out in Dec 2013. If it comes out in Feb 2013 or just after Haswell, then waiting would be the right choice. Its a bit of a gamble. I could probably hold out for a while, but I'm getting itchy. The encodes are killing me, especially when there is an error. I have to restart the entire process. TY InZone.

If it's somethiong you want to consider then go with the first step and get the cpu , MB , ram and blue ray drive and wait for the rest. There are other Intel cpu options you can take and that would be with Ivy Bridge.

Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I73770K
$339.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116501

ASUS P8Z77-V LE PLUS LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
$169.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131848

You can also go with Sandy Bridge-E ;

Intel Core i7-3820 Sandy Bridge-E 3.6GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 2011 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80619i73820
$299.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115229

ASUS P9X79 LE LGA 2011 Intel X79 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with USB BIOS
$229.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131855

CORSAIR Vengeance LP 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Desktop Memory Model CML16GX3M4X1600C8
$119.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233239

The benefit to Sandy Bridge-E is that it has more Pci-e lanes (40) then Sandy Bridge (16) , so you get full support for two video cards (x16 each) and also has support for more memory (64gb) but the trade off is it's more expensive for the motherboard.

 

[fishboi]

Ok great thanks. I did see this article at THG. What about the Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H for a mobo at $160?
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/z77-extreme6-z77a-gd65-z77h2-a2x,3187-22.html

 

[inzone]

I have always used and liked the motherboards from Asus because they are easy to use and understand and very good for overclocking especially on the ROG boards. The pre-set overclocks they have are great and you jus select one and your done .
Right now I have the Gigabyte G1 Assassin and I wanted to give gigabyte a try because this board has a lot of options and a ton of features. I have had to RMA the board for a bios chip issue but when I got it back it seems to be running ok and will continue to use it untill my next upgrade and then it will be back to Asus.
The best thing is to keep doing what your doing and research different MB's untill your satisfied with a choice. I will say that the higher the model the better chance you will be satisfied with the one you choose. I never like to see someone get a cheap MB because they say that they are getting a great deal. No they are getting what they pay for and the less you pay the less you get. If you have plenty of money and virtually no budget then get a $400 motherboard otherwise you have to try to get a medium priced board between $150 and $200.
I'm sure the UD5H is a good board and you should be fine with it.

 

[fishboi]

I actually was really happy with Asus last time around. Never had a single issue. I researched some boards, and the one that I chose was the exact model that you selected, haha. The boards are extremely similar, but the reason I chose the P8Z68 was the other boards only have 2X 6gb/s SATA connectors. This was one thing I filled up in no time using my other board. I kept adding hard drives and blu ray drives and eventually ran out of connectors. This is important to me. The other thing is that I probably will never get v-cards in crossfire/SLI. I thought about it last time around and future proofed myself, but never did it. I only need 1 PCIe slot for my v-card and thought I could chose a mobo with one slot to save $$$, but then they lack other things like SATA ports etc. So yes, I'm set on that mobo.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007627%2050001315%20600093976%20600176035&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&CompareItemList=280|13-131-837^13-131-837-TS%2C13-131-792^13-131-792-TS%2C13-131-806^13-131-806-TS%2C13-131-790^13-131-790-TS%2C13-131-821^13-131-821-TS

Perhaps I'll buy a new CPU, mobo, RAM, and 2X SSDs, and wait to upgrade the rest over time. I need to research if my current components will be compatible:

Radeon 5770: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102858 and my PSU:

Antec 550W NeoHE: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817103941

2TB Samsung: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152202

2 of these Seagate 7200s: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148140

Thermalright Ultra 120 heatsink (from 2006): http://www.silentpcreview.com/article646-page1.html

Antec P180: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129017

Damn you. Im getting excited now and will probably upgrade haha.

 

[fishboi]

My Radeon 5770 is PCI Express 2.0 x16. The ASUS P8Z68-V/GEN3 only has 1 PCEe 2.0 slot and says it runs at X4? Does this mean my card will be bottlenecked? Or is it that if I have a card in the PCIe 3.0 slot, that my second card will run at X4? In other words, my 5770 will be fine unless I put a card in the 3.0 slot correct? TIA.

 

[inzone]

No what your looking at is the Pci-e 2.0 slot and that one is a x4 slot , but the board has two Pci-e 3.0 slots that yo can use one of those for your video card because they are backwards compatable and will work with the video card you have.
If you are ever concerned about sata ports then you can always add a card with extra sata ports on it for additional hard drives.

Silverstone PCI-E to SATA Add-On Card Model SST-EC05
$35.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815256005

This is an example of what I was refering to and this card will fit in a x1 slot and there are others with multiple ports.

 

[fishboi]

Got it TY. I was reading that PCIe 3.0 isnt supported by the i7-2600k, only Ivy Bridge, even if that Asus mobo has a PCIe 3.0 slot. Also, PCIe 3.0 actually has a 5-10% worse performance than PCIe 2.0 with Ivy (review here http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/07/18/pci_express_20_vs_30_gpu_gaming_performance_review/14)? I'm sure my v-card upgrade next year for COH2 will be a PCI 3.0/next gen card. But then how the heck do I make this work today? This is a bit of a bummer...... Any thoughts?

 

[inzone]

You can easily go with Ivy Bridge in that case.

Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I73770K
$339.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819116501

ASUS P8Z77-V LE PLUS LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
$169.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813131848

If the 3770k is too much and you want a lower model then you can go with the 3570k.

Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I53570K
$229.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116504

ASUS P8Z77-V LE PLUS LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
$169.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131848

If you do only want the one slot for a video card then you can go with a lower model.

ASUS P8Z77-V LX LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
$139.99 and a $10 rebate makes the final price $129.99.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131824

 

[fishboi]

Man I found this too. The PCIe 3.0 performance and Haswell's promises is really making me hesitate:

Intel’s next-generation processor and the whole Haswell-EP platform is likely to be the biggest jump in performance since the 2006 introduction of Core 2 Duo. The Haswell processor itself will be considerably more advanced than Ivy Bridge, while bringing new innovative features and raw computing power.

The Haswell processor will still be manufactured in 22 nm process, which confirms the fact that Intel is not going to reach 14 nm processor manufacturing during the next year.

Intel’s new platform will most likely be the first DDR4 personal computing platform available on a large scale. The fastest DDR4 memory modules supported will be running at a modest 2133 MHz.

We’re calling 2133 MHz modest because many memory manufactures have announced weeks – if not months – ago DDR3 modules certified to work at 3 GHz using overclocking settings.

The company has always been conservative about the memory frequencies supported by its chipsets, so the Haswell-EP platforms will be no different this time.

Intel’s slide, published by ChipHell, clearly shows that the processor is supposed to have 10 or more processing cores.

Moreover, if we take a look at the level 3 cache allocation, we’ll see that the chart also says that there will be roughly a 2.5 MB level 3 cache slice allocated to each core.

Considering that there will be a total of 35 MB of level 3 cache, this amounts to about 14 cores, and that’s an impressive number in itself.

AMD originally had 10-core processor plans for 2013, but those were scrapped once new management came in place.

Sure, the small, fabless CPU designer can stick together two dies with 8 cores each, but that's a totally different approach when compared with Intel’s 35 MB shared level 3 cache.

HyperThreading technology will still be around and Haswell will also come with HNI or Haswell New Instructions.

That is an Intel AVX 2.0 set of instructions that the company will design inside its new processor.

 

[fishboi]

Hey Inzone, thanks for all your help man. Much appreciated. I think I need to read more about Haswell and see if I can get some visibility on what it promises. That one article above is talking about 14 cores, WTF? If its really the next Core 2 Duo, then I need to hang in there. Even if I dont wait until next year, maybe 3 months, and see if I can get some more info to make a decision. I'm looking at it as waiting 3 months vs 9 months. Hopefully more info and analysis comes out. Same thing happened to me with Conroe!!! I was about to pull the trigger, and ended up waiting 6 months for that build when I heard about Conroe. It was ultimately my best decision ever. My PC has lasted 6-7 years, which is something I've never experienced before. I'm really happy with the way it worked out. I'll let you know what I dig up. Thanks again man.

 

[Mousemonkey]

This topic has been moved from the section CPU & Components to section Systems by Mousemonkey

 

[inzone]

You sound like the patient type and that can be a good thing since new hardware seems to come out every 6 months or so. Bieng your build and your the one paying for it , it makes sense to do what you feel is best for you.and I hope it works out for you.