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560Ti 570 or 7850 or other best value card

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Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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a b U Graphics card
June 7, 2012 1:43:16 PM

I think I will finally upgrade my 4870 in the next 2 weeks (have been considering it for nearly a year). I can spend up to £200 but would rather spend less and I am totally torn between these 4 options so far but if you can find something better please let me know:
Zotac GTX 560 Ti £149.97 free delivery http://www.ebuyer.com/319820-zotac-gtx-560-ti-1gb-pci-e...
Saphire 7850 £179.98 free delivery http://www.dabs.com/products/sapphire-technology-ati-ra...
Palit GeForce GTX 570 £183.99 free delivery http://www.dabs.com/products/best-value-palit-geforce-g...
MSI 7850 Twin Frozr OC Edition £184.80 free delivery http://www.ebuyer.com/385789-msi-hd-r7850-twin-frozr-oc...
So which should I get? I slightly favour the 7850 as I may upgrade my CPU and want to crossfire it in 1-2 years time so it may be easier to find another then but its a minor consideration. Current CPU is a Phenom II x4 @ 3.7GHz RAM 8Gb 1600MHz DDR3 PSU Corsair 750W TX something Board Asrock 880G Extreme 3.

More about : 560ti 570 7850 card

a c 87 U Graphics card
June 7, 2012 1:53:06 PM

At stock, the GTX 570 is slightly faster than the 7850s that you listed (although not noticeably in most games and the 7850s also aren't noticeably ahead in the games where they beat the 570). The 7850s are significantly ahead of the 560 TI. I don't recommend the 570 because if you want a card to last long enough for CF/SLI, then you want one that doesn't have a mere 1.25GB of VRAM. The 570 might also be problematic if you don't have a PSU that has a lot of wattage headroom when you only have a single Radeon 4870 because the 570 uses a lot more power. 7850s also scale in CF better than the 570s do in SLI, so when you go dual video card, you'll be getting more performance with two 7850s than you would with two 570s.
June 7, 2012 2:24:29 PM

As you have a 750 watt psu you will have plenty of power for a 570. Depending on what resolution you game at the 1.25GB of ram will be important. Right now the additional ram won't matter for any games at 1080p but who knows how long that will last. They are less likely to be available for sli in 1-2 years than the 7850 though.
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a b U Graphics card
June 7, 2012 2:38:38 PM

I currently game at 1920 x 1080 but may get a higher res. monitor if they drop in price hugely. Thanks for the advice so far I think I will go for a 7850 unless anyone can convince me otherwise. Is the £5 extra for the MSI worth it and does anyone know what warranty it has the Sapphire is 2 years but I cannot find what the MSI is.
a c 87 U Graphics card
June 7, 2012 4:38:50 PM

The MSI is about 3-4% faster than the Sapphire 7850. If you think that it is worth about 3% more money, then go for it, but that is not a noticeable advantage because it is not enough of an advantage to be significant. The Spphire probably has a better cooler though, so it looks like it's a trade-off. I'd go for the Sapphire, but the MSI shouldn't have a problem if you want it.
June 7, 2012 5:39:35 PM

Another thing to note, however, is that the 7850 overclocks really well, and can easily get up to 7870 levels. In short, a stock 570 is a little better than a stock 7850, but an OC'ed 7850 better than an OC'ed 570 by a relatively significant amount.
June 7, 2012 6:00:18 PM

And I would go with the MSI. Performance is essentially the same, but a year of warranty goes a long long way.
a c 87 U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 12:04:03 AM

Quote:
GTX 480:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


Untouchable at this price.
Performance is whopping good ;) 


Two things about that 480 is that not many cards look as awesome as it does and like the 7850, it has huge overclocking headroom, although only if it has a good cooler. However, we've been through the power usage discussion before. The 480 uses about three times more power than the 7850 and that shows in the power bill drastically over just a few months to a year. Beyond that, the 7850 is far more future-proofed and wouldn't need a PSU upgrade for CF like the 480 would for SLI (which would be inferior to 7850 CF). We all know that the 480 is a monster card, but it's up-front cost advantage is a mask for it's power usage and inferior long-term value and the OP specifically stated that he wanted prime long-term value.
a c 87 U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 12:10:08 AM

Quote:
That does not matter to most folk ;) 

Not disagreeing with the fact the 7850 is a better consumer on the gas.

The 7850 costs more and runs slower, but is more desired due to better press.


Reference 7850 < GTX 480 (slightly)
7850 OC ~= GTX 480 OC (when it has good enough cooling to keep up with the heat)
Reference 7850 CF > GTX 480 OC SLI (slightly)
7850 OC > GTX 480 OC SLI (greatly)

Long term value is something that the OP wants and this here tells a big part of that tale. The 7850's 33% greater VRAM capacity also helps it in this, especially for Crossfire. Even a 6970 or even a GTX 570 2.5GB would be a better buy than the GTX 480 because of this, but the 7850 beats them both too, even if not by as much.

Furthermore, the reference 7850 usually is not noticeably slower than the 480 and the 7850 can be overclocked further without worrying about heat issues. The 480 that you linked is almost definitely not going to OC as well as a reference 7850 because it already has heat issues. Besides, a good factory OC 7850 will beat the highest factory OC 480s that are on air cooling.
a c 87 U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 12:18:39 AM

Quote:
Vram, nothing at 1080p, both the 480 and 7850 can handle 4mp res without going over their Vram limits.

Only 7850CFX beats a 480?

What happens when you OC the 480... destruction.

Power consumption is rather bad, but this is always overblown to proportion.

7850>480 power consumption/heat
480>7850 bang/buck.

7850 needs huge jumps in core clock to catch the 480 when overclocked, the 480 gains from small bumps.


Bump the 7850 up to about 900MHz to 950MHz and it will meet or beat the 480 overall and that's not big jump for a 7850, especially considering that most of them can hit 1125MHz to 1200MHz without a voltage increase and much farther with one. The 480's significant up-front bang for buck advantage takes less than a year to make up and turn around. Reference 7850 CF beats overclocked GTX 480 SLI. Overclocked 7850 CF slaughters overclocked 480 SLI. 7850s have far superior scaling. Heck, 7850 CF uses less power than a single GTX 480 while being almost twice as fast.
a c 87 U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 12:21:02 AM

Quote:
We did a test here, it needs 1200mhz to beat the 480 at 850mhz.


And with the GTX 480 that you linked easily hitting up to 80 Celsius at stock according to its reviews, how much headroom do you want to give it in overclocking? Up the 7850's voltage to a little over 1.2v (even up to 1.3v is almost always safe, but let's be on the extremely safe side of this) and 1200MHz is not a problem. Heck, beyond 1200MHz is not a problem.
a c 87 U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 12:23:09 AM

Quote:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/page-355406_15_50.h...

Makes little to know difference when you can grab a cooler for $35, and still have a better performing card.


Okay, give it a new cooler. Now, give the 7850 a larger voltage increase and bring it up to 1250MHz to almost 1300MHz. The 7850s don't need a new cooler for that. A $15 mod of the 7850 (you want to mod the 480 with a new cooler, I'll mention this) where you apply small heat sinks bought from newegg or frozencpu to the RAM chip and VR and it can hit even 1400MHz stable.
a c 87 U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 12:25:36 AM

Quote:
$210 + 35... still costs the same as a 7850 for a faster card ;) 


Again. just raise the 7850's voltage even without the above mentioned mod and it can top 1200MHz on stock cooling if you buy at least a half-decent 7850.
a c 87 U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 12:34:22 AM

Quote:
Battlefield 3 then, here's where we enabled that near silly Ultra quality settings mode and 4x AA. Now the R7850 is a little on the edge here with 33 FPS on average. With our IQ settings and chosen level these are downright respectable numbers compared to other products in the same price range. If you need a little more performance, you can always disable AA.


I average 45+ with 4xMSAA


You're highly overclocked and the Guru review has a minute factory overclock on that 7850. That very review happens to have a 480 in some of its benches and the slightly faster GTX 570 and they don't get near what you're getting. In fact, the 570 only got 37FPS in that same BF3 test and the 480 would have almost definitely been either on-par with it or a little slower, so 35-37FPS is likely. This is a known game to favor Nvidia a little and we already know that the 480 has a small advantage at stock over the reference 7850s and the merely slightly factory overclocekd 7850s. There is a 975MHz and a 1GHz 7850 and both would meet or beat these 480s and 570s until you manually overclocked them. Then, you manually overclock those 7850s and they win again unless you mod the 480s and 570s. The 7850s win again with voltage increases. It's a never-ending cycle of do this and then do that on one card and then the other. At the end of it all, the price difference in power usage through the electric bill just increases at each step because the difference in power usage between the 7850 and the 480 increases as you overclock them.
a c 87 U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 12:40:05 AM

The 7850 wasn't at 1200MHz in that review...
a c 87 U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 12:43:43 AM

That's not even the same article. Fine, now I'll look at this one.
a c 87 U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 12:45:10 AM

Jeeze that's outdated. Early March on your next Guru3D link.
a c 87 U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 12:47:23 AM

I never said that the techpowerup article is outdated. I'm still looking at that one. I said that the Guru3D is outdated.
a c 87 U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 12:48:15 AM

Great, the techpowerup is newer than the guru3d review, yet the techpowerup used an even older driver... What a load of BS there. That review is useless. How could they be using an older driver than a review that was considerably older and think that it was a fair review?
a c 87 U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 12:53:02 AM

I didn't lose any argument. Those results go against everything that every 7850 owner that I know has tested and that review used an older driver (a possible culprit of the low numbers). They also go against what other people have gotten online and I think you remember the huge link that I showed you about this stuff.
a c 87 U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 12:57:05 AM

No, it doesn't. It shows that the reviewer used a driver that even at the time, was by far outdated. Beyond that, it even goes against every performance number that I've seen even with that driver from other sources.
June 8, 2012 1:01:41 AM

Spoiler
Well I wouldn't bother using max graphics on a multiplier game with either of those cards. To many variables can effect gameplay. 50-60 is better for multi-player and that means toning down the graphics a bit until you get it.

Since both cards can do that well, I don't think it would really matter.. (I'd go with 7850 for power efficiency, I think)

Not that I have a good computer mind you~ grahahahaha. I know multiplayer can be a *foul word* though with Internet issues and explosion lag etc though
a c 87 U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 1:06:00 AM

Quote:
The good news is that scaling is almost linear, at least at the levels I was playing at. At 1075/1450(5800), I got a 16.7% increase in my Unigine 3.0 benchmark compared to 920/1250(5000). So 16.8% higher core clock gave me 16.7% more fps.


http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=33288175

Everywhere I look except for what you just showed me, scaling with clock frequency hikes is almost linear. It always is unless there is a bottle-neck. That is how clock frequency performance scaling works. If it doesn't scale almost linearly in performance, then there is something wrong and it should be dealt with.
a c 87 U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 1:08:39 AM

Unigen scales similarly to how real games do. That's what matters. All games perform differently, but they almost always scale certain things similarly if you lock out variables such as memory bandwidth.
a c 87 U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 1:13:37 AM

Quote:
Unigene is not a game, it is a benchmarking tool.
Games react differently (real world).

That is why the 480 kikcs the 7850 flying in BF3.


Again, that doesn't matter. Unigene mimics gaming performance scaling and that is what it is good for comparing. You usually can't use it to compare two different cards accurately, but you can use it to compare the performance scaling of a card.
June 8, 2012 10:07:42 AM

Damn...

Blazorthon got owned.

I had the same argument with him a while back about the 7850 vs 480. This guy thinks he knows everything when he don't know s**t.

I even posted a link showing him how the 480 owns the 7850.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews [...] 870/6.html

Go through every page of game benchmarks, counting up the results as you go. See for yourself which card wins more.

And all he had to say to that was,

"On the performance... Fine, it seems I was wrong, but the 7850 and the 480 are still imperceptibly close for most games anyway..."

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/page-3107_56_350.html

And here he is again, beating that dead horse.

Pathetic.
a b U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 11:09:38 AM

I didn't expect this, OK so the 480 is now in the equation and looks like it costs around the same as a 7850 in the UK from the scan link from recon-uk I have only quickly read the responses so far so just letting you know I am still listening, I will let you know what I think when I have read it all more closely. Note I am buyingf in the UK so no new egg and the sphire 7850 and a 480 are both £180.
June 8, 2012 11:41:25 AM

Quote:
Well, yea my HD6950 @ stock runs BF3 ultra at around 40-55fps with no AA in Multiplayer

I would bet it is closer to 40.

Before I went crossfire with a second 6970, I got about 40-50fps on average in BF3 (totally maxed with AA), and about 50-60fps without AA.
a b U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 3:40:12 PM

I was nearly going to buy it (the 7950) then noticed a 670 is only £50 more and its so much more than I wanted to spend so sanity check brings me back to lower cards. As far as I can tell the 6950 is not far behind a 7850 and this one is only £146 + delivery = £154 which is more what I wanted to spend. What do you think of this http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/11984339/art/sapphire-t...
June 8, 2012 3:58:53 PM

If you are a long term value customer like myself, you can't just look at the price to performance aspect of the cards, but you also have to factor in power consumption. Cards like the 480 might cost you £50 more a year on your energy bill versus a 7850. Any price difference between the two cards will quickly be sucked up. Playing a t 1080p a 7850 will suit you just fine.
a b U Graphics card
June 8, 2012 4:35:33 PM

OK I think its the 6950 then thanks all for the help, im going out for an hour or 2 will check the post for anything else then order unless I get indecisive again. Thanks again.
BTW I am not that worried about power consumption as its a dedicated gaming PC so only on when gaming.
BTW2 I love my Phenom II x4 3.7GHz its around 3 years old and cost under £70 (unlocked Phenom x2) I don't think there will be a better deal than that ever and even now you can't get a better CPU for the price.
a b U Graphics card
June 9, 2012 1:26:01 AM

6950 ordered thanks again for the help getting there.
!