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Taming special beasts

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Anonymous
July 26, 2005 6:18:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

I have spotted the occasional named beast and read about people taming
them and stuff, Is there anyway to find out what characteristics these
beasts have or are they all the same? I specifically am after a Pig or
Boar.

More about : taming special beasts

Anonymous
July 26, 2005 6:18:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Vertoobli wrote:
> I have spotted the occasional named beast and read about people taming
> them and stuff, Is there anyway to find out what characteristics these
> beasts have or are they all the same? I specifically am after a Pig or
> Boar.

Unfortunatly, they do not get any special abilities that they had
whilst they were not your pet. There is a set list of abilities that
pets can have and some pets will come with on or more of them. The
abilities that I know of are:

Growl - increase threat
Cower - decrease threat
Dash - increase speed for a short time (only for land pets)
Dive - increase speed for a short time (only for flying pets)
Claw - low damage extra attack with a short cooldown
Bite - higher damager extra attack with a longer cooldown

Not all pets can learn each ability - a lot can have claw and not bite
or vice versa for example.

A great resource for pet abilities can be found on the Good Intentions
Guild website (http://www.goodintentionsguild.info). That site also
lists which pets are good tanks and which are good DPS and which are
good all-rounders.

steve.kaye
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 6:18:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Vertoobli wrote:
> On 26 Jul 2005 07:42:02 -0700, "steve.kaye"
> <nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Vertoobli wrote:
> >> I have spotted the occasional named beast and read about people taming
> >> them and stuff, Is there anyway to find out what characteristics these
> >> beasts have or are they all the same? I specifically am after a Pig or
> >> Boar.
> >
> >Unfortunatly, they do not get any special abilities that they had
> >whilst they were not your pet. There is a set list of abilities that
> >pets can have and some pets will come with on or more of them. The
> >abilities that I know of are:
> >
> >Growl - increase threat
> >Cower - decrease threat
> >Dash - increase speed for a short time (only for land pets)
> >Dive - increase speed for a short time (only for flying pets)
> >Claw - low damage extra attack with a short cooldown
> >Bite - higher damager extra attack with a longer cooldown
> >
> >Not all pets can learn each ability - a lot can have claw and not bite
> >or vice versa for example.
> >
> >A great resource for pet abilities can be found on the Good Intentions
> >Guild website (http://www.goodintentionsguild.info). That site also
> >lists which pets are good tanks and which are good DPS and which are
> >good all-rounders.
> >
> >steve.kaye
>
> Thanks. I have the list of what pets do what and what pets to get
> skills from, I just wondered if I could get some kind of Uber-pig from
> somewhere, that has extra defense or str or attacks speed. An Elite
> pig for want of a better word.

Attack speed is one of the things that does differ from pet to pet. I
got a cat with a 1.2 attack speed - a Swamp Jaguar I think from the
Swamp of Sorrows. That site I gave also has a list of pets with low
attack speeds and where to find them. I'm not sure if any of them are
pigs though.

steve.kaye
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Anonymous
July 26, 2005 6:18:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Rastus a écrit :
> > I have spotted the occasional named beast and read about people taming
> > them and stuff, Is there anyway to find out what characteristics these
> > beasts have or are they all the same? I specifically am after a Pig or
> > Boar.
>
> Allakhazam's has a rare mob list. Just look for the ones of "beast" class.
> The added notes from other players are nomrally from tamers who are bragging
> about having it, though I would take it with a grain of salt.
>

I love you.

> The pigs/boar get a charge abiltiy.

They don't. You just got abused by the hunter level 10 quest. I love
you.

>
> I use a crocolisk (sp?). They have a bite attack on top of normal mellee, so
> when they taunt, bite and mellee the aggro adds up. My level 15 is at 750 AR
> as well so can take the heat generated as well.

I love you.
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 6:18:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

There is an elite pig in Razorfen, Kraul I believe. It has shoulder
tattoes much like druid bear form has. I'm confident it doesn't bestow
on you, nor retain, the boar's special abilities, though it might come
with one of the "pet" abilities. The pig is huge, but quickly reverts
to hunter's pet size after taming. It'll keep the special markings
which are very cool. I saw an Orc Hunter with this boar so I know it's
tameable. Or was.
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 7:52:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On 26 Jul 2005 07:42:02 -0700, "steve.kaye"
<nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:

>
>
>Vertoobli wrote:
>> I have spotted the occasional named beast and read about people taming
>> them and stuff, Is there anyway to find out what characteristics these
>> beasts have or are they all the same? I specifically am after a Pig or
>> Boar.
>
>Unfortunatly, they do not get any special abilities that they had
>whilst they were not your pet. There is a set list of abilities that
>pets can have and some pets will come with on or more of them. The
>abilities that I know of are:
>
>Growl - increase threat
>Cower - decrease threat
>Dash - increase speed for a short time (only for land pets)
>Dive - increase speed for a short time (only for flying pets)
>Claw - low damage extra attack with a short cooldown
>Bite - higher damager extra attack with a longer cooldown
>
>Not all pets can learn each ability - a lot can have claw and not bite
>or vice versa for example.
>
>A great resource for pet abilities can be found on the Good Intentions
>Guild website (http://www.goodintentionsguild.info). That site also
>lists which pets are good tanks and which are good DPS and which are
>good all-rounders.
>
>steve.kaye

Thanks. I have the list of what pets do what and what pets to get
skills from, I just wondered if I could get some kind of Uber-pig from
somewhere, that has extra defense or str or attacks speed. An Elite
pig for want of a better word.
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 9:35:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Hello,


> Growl - increase threat
> Cower - decrease threat


I don t really understand 'cower', does this mean that your pet can
release threat so that the mob comes TO you ?

Dlp
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 10:04:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On 2005-07-26 17:35:41 +0200, DLPnet <dlpnet-@-free.fr> said:

> Hello,
>
>
>> Growl - increase threat
>> Cower - decrease threat
>
>
> I don t really understand 'cower', does this mean that your pet can
> release threat so that the mob comes TO you ?
>
> Dlp

Yup, Succubus has a similar ability, called Soothing Kiss, reducing
threat as well. Cause sometimes you wanna tank yourself and let the pet
deal the damage. Or use it in groups, but dont wanna steal aggro of the
tank...
--
http://www.new-roots.com/
Nerghal - Undead Warlock lvl 60 - Bloodscalp EU
Gwar - Orcish Warrior lvl 10 - Bloodscalp EU
Chasey - Undead Priest lvl 19 - Bloodscalp EU
July 27, 2005 4:31:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

> I have spotted the occasional named beast and read about people taming
> them and stuff, Is there anyway to find out what characteristics these
> beasts have or are they all the same? I specifically am after a Pig or
> Boar.

Allakhazam's has a rare mob list. Just look for the ones of "beast" class.
The added notes from other players are nomrally from tamers who are bragging
about having it, though I would take it with a grain of salt.

The pigs/boar get a charge abiltiy.

I use a crocolisk (sp?). They have a bite attack on top of normal mellee, so
when they taunt, bite and mellee the aggro adds up. My level 15 is at 750 AR
as well so can take the heat generated as well.
Anonymous
July 27, 2005 1:13:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:18:10 +0100, Vertoobli <motoko@null.com> scribed
into the ether:

>
>I have spotted the occasional named beast and read about people taming
>them and stuff, Is there anyway to find out what characteristics these
>beasts have or are they all the same? I specifically am after a Pig or
>Boar.

Except for coloration, there's really not much difference between the
unique pets and the more prosaic ones. There are some exceptions...several
named cats have faster than normal attack speeds.

If you want a boar, head to Razorfen Kraul, and grab one of the terminator
piggies. All covered in metal bits. Very stylish.
Anonymous
July 27, 2005 1:15:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:52:40 +0100, Vertoobli <motoko@null.com> scribed
into the ether:

>On 26 Jul 2005 07:42:02 -0700, "steve.kaye"
><nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:

>>A great resource for pet abilities can be found on the Good Intentions
>>Guild website (http://www.goodintentionsguild.info). That site also
>>lists which pets are good tanks and which are good DPS and which are
>>good all-rounders.
>>
>
>Thanks. I have the list of what pets do what and what pets to get
>skills from, I just wondered if I could get some kind of Uber-pig from
>somewhere, that has extra defense or str or attacks speed. An Elite
>pig for want of a better word.

Forget it. No such thing. Tamed elites are the same as tamed normal
versions. Other than appearance, there are no boars which are statistically
superior to any other.

Most of the originality of various pets has been systematically squished
out of them by Blizzard. They'll keep doing more until the only difference
between pets is what they look like.
Anonymous
July 27, 2005 1:16:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:35:41 +0200, DLPnet <dlpnet-@-free.fr> scribed into
the ether:

>Hello,
>
>
>> Growl - increase threat
>> Cower - decrease threat
>
>
>I don t really understand 'cower', does this mean that your pet can
>release threat so that the mob comes TO you ?

Yes. If your pet is at 10% health, and you are full, wouldn't you rather
have the monster beat on you for a bit rather than having to ressurect your
pet?
Anonymous
July 27, 2005 3:07:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"DLPnet" <dlpnet-@-free.fr> wrote in message
news:42e6584d$0$15710$626a14ce@news.free.fr...
> Hello,
>
>
>> Growl - increase threat
>> Cower - decrease threat
>
>
> I don t really understand 'cower', does this mean that your pet can
> release threat so that the mob comes TO you ?

Use it in groups so that the tank can keep aggro while you use the pet's
focus for another damage attack or dash or something.
Anonymous
July 27, 2005 3:22:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Matt Frisch wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:52:40 +0100, Vertoobli <motoko@null.com> scribed
> into the ether:
>
> >On 26 Jul 2005 07:42:02 -0700, "steve.kaye"
> ><nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >>A great resource for pet abilities can be found on the Good Intentions
> >>Guild website (http://www.goodintentionsguild.info). That site also
> >>lists which pets are good tanks and which are good DPS and which are
> >>good all-rounders.
> >>
> >
> >Thanks. I have the list of what pets do what and what pets to get
> >skills from, I just wondered if I could get some kind of Uber-pig from
> >somewhere, that has extra defense or str or attacks speed. An Elite
> >pig for want of a better word.
>
> Forget it. No such thing. Tamed elites are the same as tamed normal
> versions. Other than appearance, there are no boars which are statistically
> superior to any other.
>
> Most of the originality of various pets has been systematically squished
> out of them by Blizzard. They'll keep doing more until the only difference
> between pets is what they look like.

Each beast family (cat, dog, bear, turule, etc.) has the same stats as
far as hits, armor, and dps. There is some variation between families,
e.g. a bear has more hits than a cat, a raptor hits harder than a
turtle, a turtle has more armor than a raptor, etc. etc.

Each beast family can also learn some but not all of the 6 pet skills
(dash, dive, bit, claw, growl, cower). Some beast may have some of
these abilities when you get them.

Beyond that, and a few exceptions, everyone pet in the same beast
family is the same. The exceptions are attack speed and run speed. Some
pets have faster attack speeds (not more dps though) and faster run
speeds. Often these special pets are named rares and/or elites. They
have been in the process of nerfing any differences, but those two I
just mentioned remain (although less than before, they have nerfed some
of the extremes).

Good news is in 1.7 they are suppose to re-do pet abilities and allow
more customization of pets via training points.
Anonymous
July 27, 2005 4:22:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Good news is in 1.7 they are suppose to re-do pet abilities and allow
more customization of pets via training points. "

Dash 2 is available at level 40.

So as of 1.7 I brought my Hunter out of retirement and got a
Ridgestalker tamed so I could train my own cats (Jaguarette, a speedy
Swamp Jaguar, who was faster than Royalty, who was King Bangalash in
his former existence) in Dash 2. They still have over a hundred
training points each.

Where is the customization if all pets can have max abilities in every
category allowed?

My pets have so many unspent talent points and all of the abilities
they can learn are maxed.

And why introduce Dash at level 30? (30 or something fairly high.) At
the early levels that's where the training points are dear and need to
be applied. If more abilities were available early on, then there
might be some customization. Some would opt for speed, maybe, others
in claw. As it is the pets earn so many talent points that you simply
keep each ability maximized. Further making all similar pets identical
except for the odd colored one.

At level 45 my cats both have talent points coming out of their butts
and nothing to spend them on.

When is gear we can equip our pets with coming? I want to make, as a
leatherworker, a spiked collar for my cat that'll add to damage done.
And I want to sell those spiked collars for cash. Collars, vests, etc.
Not every pet should be able to wear things. I imagine flying
serpents will want to remain rather light. But Owls could be
supplemented with steel claws, Bears with Armor vests, wolves with
spiked collars.

There is just so much more the pets could be doing in this game.
Anonymous
July 27, 2005 5:00:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Robert S. wrote:
> So as of 1.7 I brought my Hunter out of retirement and got a
> Ridgestalker tamed so I could train my own cats

Might have the versions confused...1.7 isn't out yet.

Bliz says 1.7 will bring a re-work of the survival talent tree. That's
really all they said for sure. Other hunter changes are planned
including new pet skills that you will be able to buy with all those
unused training points and they talked about "customizing" pets with
those. They haven't said this is definitely in 1.7, but they did say
1.7 will have more hunter changes then just survival...some wishful
thinking maybe to say pet changes will be in 1.7 too.

Boars have charge, bats have silence, spiders have web/poison, swoops
have knock down, etc...NO NO they didn't say that's how it works, but I
it would be cool if you could buy back some of the natural abilities
beasts have before becoming tame.
Anonymous
July 28, 2005 4:05:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
news:h7kee19v6mt887a8pcn1hgd9qhbjcrlh3m@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:35:41 +0200, DLPnet <dlpnet-@-free.fr> scribed into
> the ether:
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>
>>> Growl - increase threat
>>> Cower - decrease threat
>>
>>
>>I don t really understand 'cower', does this mean that your pet can
>>release threat so that the mob comes TO you ?
>
> Yes. If your pet is at 10% health, and you are full, wouldn't you rather
> have the monster beat on you for a bit rather than having to ressurect your
> pet?

Trying to find and activate Cower at that point (and DE-activate Growl), would
be a whole lot less practical than just using the hunter's Distract shot, which
instantly aggro's a monster onto you. But usually a better option at that point,
is just to stop shooting and use Heal Pet for 5 seconds, and let him keep
aggro. If the monster's such a badass that this isn't going to work, and your
pet will just die and leave a too-much-life-left-to-kill-via-melee mob in your
lap, then you'd best just cut your losses, kick in Aspect of the Cheetah/Pack,
and get the hell out of Dodge while your pet gives his all for the cause. Pets
are cheap, and resurrect easy.

The real usefulness of Cower is in instance runs, where another player is
acting as MT (Main Tank)- in those situations, you want to leave your pet on
Cower and turn off Growl, and also set him to Passive so he won't be getting
your party wiped by attacking something at the wrong time/place. The main
tank needs to be the one collecting ALL aggro for the proper workings of a
good party, and any aggro-stealing by a hunter's pet can mess things up in
many situations.
-Marshall
Anonymous
July 28, 2005 4:21:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Matt Frisch wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 00:05:41 GMT, "Marshall" <Marshall@nospam.com> scribed
> into the ether:
>
> >
> >"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
> >news:h7kee19v6mt887a8pcn1hgd9qhbjcrlh3m@4ax.com...
> >> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:35:41 +0200, DLPnet <dlpnet-@-free.fr> scribed into
> >> the ether:
> >>
> >>>Hello,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Growl - increase threat
> >>>> Cower - decrease threat
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I don t really understand 'cower', does this mean that your pet can
> >>>release threat so that the mob comes TO you ?
> >>
> >> Yes. If your pet is at 10% health, and you are full, wouldn't you rather
> >> have the monster beat on you for a bit rather than having to ressurect your
> >> pet?
> >
> >Trying to find and activate Cower at that point (and DE-activate Growl), would
> >be a whole lot less practical than just using the hunter's Distract shot, which
> >instantly aggro's a monster onto you.
>
> No. Distracting Shot does generate substantial aggro, but it is not like
> warrior Taunt, where it automatically puts you on top of the list. I've had
> to spend as many as 3 such shots to get a mob to change target.
>
> Turning off growl and turning on cower is a couple of mouse clicks or a
> couple of keypresses...big whoop. I usually have my mouse in that area
> anyway for activating bite/claw; my pet has terrible "mana" management, so
> I do it for him.

I use SmartPet which is an add-on that can do all this. You tell it
which abilities you want to enable and it makes sure that it has enough
focus to activate growl/cower as required. It can also automatically
turn off growl and turn on cower when its health gets below a
configurable %.

It also has run management - it calls your pet back when your target
starts running. I don't use this so I'm not sure how well it works.

(http://ui.worldofwar.net is a great add-ons web site)


> > But usually a better option at that point,
> >is just to stop shooting and use Heal Pet for 5 seconds, and let him keep
> >aggro.
>
> I've never been terribly impressed with mend pet. Usually the time is
> better spent hurting the mob instead of healing the pet. It's also a
> serious mana-hog.

Yeah and you tend to be stuck in a never-ending loop. Mend Pet often
doesn't heal fast enough to get your pet out of danger and so you have
to keep mending until pet or mob dies.


> >The real usefulness of Cower is in instance runs, where another player is
> >acting as MT (Main Tank)- in those situations, you want to leave your pet on
> >Cower and turn off Growl, and also set him to Passive so he won't be getting
> >your party wiped by attacking something at the wrong time/place.
>
> Oddly, I've never used Cower in an instance, and I frequently leave Growl
> on. Pet never gets any aggro that it isn't supposed to (well, there was one
> exception at the Maraudon falls, but growl had nothing to do with that).
>
> Pet is a highly useful offtank and good for collecting spare aggro that
> happens upon a squishie during the chaos of a fight. Having growl on means
> that the pet will do its job a lot faster.

I agree with that. I don't do many instances but when I've done them
I've never had any problem with my pet getting agro when it shouldn't
have and it is a useful off-tank.

steve.kaye
Anonymous
July 28, 2005 8:21:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

porl wrote:
> "Marshall" <Marshall@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:p jVFe.6025$Uk3.4156@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> > Trying to find and activate Cower at that point (and DE-activate Growl),
> > would
> > be a whole lot less practical than just using the hunter's Distract shot,
> > which
> > instantly aggro's a monster onto you. But usually a better option at that
> > point,
> > is just to stop shooting and use Heal Pet for 5 seconds, and let him keep
> > aggro. If the monster's such a badass that this isn't going to work, and
> > your
> > pet will just die and leave a too-much-life-left-to-kill-via-melee mob in
> > your
> > lap, then you'd best just cut your losses, kick in Aspect of the
> > Cheetah/Pack,
> > and get the hell out of Dodge while your pet gives his all for the cause.
> > Pets
> > are cheap, and resurrect easy.
>
> It's pretty hard to get out of Dodge in an instance, the mobs are quite,
> quite persistant. And you can't pet heal if you've no mana left.

My "Get Out Of Dodge" button is bound to F12. Most people call it
"Feign Death" though.

steve.kaye
Anonymous
July 28, 2005 9:18:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Yes, I did. Whichever patch introduced Dash was when I got my Hunter
back in the act.
Anonymous
July 28, 2005 10:37:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 00:05:41 GMT, "Marshall" <Marshall@nospam.com> scribed
into the ether:

>
>"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
>news:h7kee19v6mt887a8pcn1hgd9qhbjcrlh3m@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:35:41 +0200, DLPnet <dlpnet-@-free.fr> scribed into
>> the ether:
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>
>>>> Growl - increase threat
>>>> Cower - decrease threat
>>>
>>>
>>>I don t really understand 'cower', does this mean that your pet can
>>>release threat so that the mob comes TO you ?
>>
>> Yes. If your pet is at 10% health, and you are full, wouldn't you rather
>> have the monster beat on you for a bit rather than having to ressurect your
>> pet?
>
>Trying to find and activate Cower at that point (and DE-activate Growl), would
>be a whole lot less practical than just using the hunter's Distract shot, which
>instantly aggro's a monster onto you.

No. Distracting Shot does generate substantial aggro, but it is not like
warrior Taunt, where it automatically puts you on top of the list. I've had
to spend as many as 3 such shots to get a mob to change target.

Turning off growl and turning on cower is a couple of mouse clicks or a
couple of keypresses...big whoop. I usually have my mouse in that area
anyway for activating bite/claw; my pet has terrible "mana" management, so
I do it for him.

> But usually a better option at that point,
>is just to stop shooting and use Heal Pet for 5 seconds, and let him keep
>aggro.

I've never been terribly impressed with mend pet. Usually the time is
better spent hurting the mob instead of healing the pet. It's also a
serious mana-hog.

>The real usefulness of Cower is in instance runs, where another player is
>acting as MT (Main Tank)- in those situations, you want to leave your pet on
>Cower and turn off Growl, and also set him to Passive so he won't be getting
>your party wiped by attacking something at the wrong time/place.

Oddly, I've never used Cower in an instance, and I frequently leave Growl
on. Pet never gets any aggro that it isn't supposed to (well, there was one
exception at the Maraudon falls, but growl had nothing to do with that).

Pet is a highly useful offtank and good for collecting spare aggro that
happens upon a squishie during the chaos of a fight. Having growl on means
that the pet will do its job a lot faster.
Anonymous
July 28, 2005 2:19:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
news:o 0vge11rm25kdor0hn9jt5rrdgv24ltb4q@4ax.com...

> No. Distracting Shot does generate substantial aggro, but it is not like
> warrior Taunt, where it automatically puts you on top of the list. I've
> had
> to spend as many as 3 such shots to get a mob to change target.

I've found the same.

> Turning off growl and turning on cower is a couple of mouse clicks or a
> couple of keypresses...big whoop. I usually have my mouse in that area
> anyway for activating bite/claw; my pet has terrible "mana" management, so
> I do it for him.

> Oddly, I've never used Cower in an instance, and I frequently leave Growl
> on. Pet never gets any aggro that it isn't supposed to (well, there was
> one
> exception at the Maraudon falls, but growl had nothing to do with that).
>
> Pet is a highly useful offtank and good for collecting spare aggro that
> happens upon a squishie during the chaos of a fight. Having growl on means
> that the pet will do its job a lot faster.

This seems full of contradictions: your mouse is suitably placed for dealing
with bite/claw due to managing the pet's focus and yet you leave growl on
even though it wastes focus and you can choose to activate it at exactly the
time you want rather than wait for it to happen in the pet's own time. I'm
not saying you're not an experienced hunter as you obviously are, just that
I can't see the logic.
Anonymous
July 28, 2005 2:24:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Marshall" <Marshall@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:p jVFe.6025$Uk3.4156@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

> Trying to find and activate Cower at that point (and DE-activate Growl),
> would
> be a whole lot less practical than just using the hunter's Distract shot,
> which
> instantly aggro's a monster onto you. But usually a better option at that
> point,
> is just to stop shooting and use Heal Pet for 5 seconds, and let him keep
> aggro. If the monster's such a badass that this isn't going to work, and
> your
> pet will just die and leave a too-much-life-left-to-kill-via-melee mob in
> your
> lap, then you'd best just cut your losses, kick in Aspect of the
> Cheetah/Pack,
> and get the hell out of Dodge while your pet gives his all for the cause.
> Pets
> are cheap, and resurrect easy.

It's pretty hard to get out of Dodge in an instance, the mobs are quite,
quite persistant. And you can't pet heal if you've no mana left.

It's rare to encounter a general situation which has one "best" solution.
That's the beauty and the flexibility of the hunter class, isn't it?
Anonymous
July 29, 2005 5:38:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"porl" <porlp@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:3krmi5Fvhnl4U1@individual.net...
>
> "Marshall" <Marshall@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:p jVFe.6025$Uk3.4156@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>> Trying to find and activate Cower at that point (and DE-activate Growl),
>> would
>> be a whole lot less practical than just using the hunter's Distract shot,
>> which
>> instantly aggro's a monster onto you. But usually a better option at that
>> point,
>> is just to stop shooting and use Heal Pet for 5 seconds, and let him keep
>> aggro. If the monster's such a badass that this isn't going to work, and your
>> pet will just die and leave a too-much-life-left-to-kill-via-melee mob in
>> your
>> lap, then you'd best just cut your losses, kick in Aspect of the
>> Cheetah/Pack,
>> and get the hell out of Dodge while your pet gives his all for the cause.
>> Pets
>> are cheap, and resurrect easy.
>
> It's pretty hard to get out of Dodge in an instance,

We weren't talking about an instance, just general use. And in an instance,
you have at least four other players, you're not soloing with your pet. If you
do end up in that situation, you're probably fuqued anyway :-)

> the mobs are quite, quite persistant.

If you've played a hunter long enough to lose n00b status at it, you know
when to run for it and kick in your speed boosts *before* your pet dies and
they all end up in your lap. I don't care how persistent they are, they're not
going to catch you with Cheetah/Pack on, and a minimal headstart. They
do have their leashes on, and won't chase you forever. Or you Feign Death, if
you've managed to get yourself into a situation where that is no longer an
option.
Having played two hunters up to lvls 60 and 56, I can report that either of
these actions is quite infrequent in day to day play, when you know your char
and your pet and what both can do.

> And you can't pet heal if you've no mana left.

Obviously you don't try to heal pet, if you don't have enough mana left to
do so. But unless you're careless and wasteful of mana usage, this is hardly
ever a problem. It certainly isn't with my chars. In those very rare situations
where I feel it's necessary to heal my pet, I usually have plenty of mana to
run it twice in direct succession, and still have mana left to get off some more
magic shots with. Plus a major mana potion always at the ready, if needed.
If you're pet is dying in an instance where you're in a party with 4+ other
people,
then obviously you're not going to waste time and effort using heal-pet to try
to save it, you just want to help kill the mob(s) as quick as possible then
revive
him afterwards. He is just a peripheral there, and the other players are what
you
need to concentrate on keeping alive through maximizing your personal dps
delivered.

> It's rare to encounter a general situation which has one "best" solution.
> That's the beauty and the flexibility of the hunter class, isn't it?

Indeed.
-Marshall
Anonymous
July 29, 2005 1:45:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Marshall" <Marshall@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:HMfGe.6542$Uk3.1878@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

> If you've played a hunter long enough to lose n00b status at it, you know
> when to run for it and kick in your speed boosts *before* your pet dies
> and
> they all end up in your lap. I don't care how persistent they are, they're
> not
> going to catch you with Cheetah/Pack on, and a minimal headstart. They
> do have their leashes on, and won't chase you forever.

I don't want to get into a pissing contest. I simply wanted to say that IME
the tactic proposed was valid and I didn't realise we were excluding
instances from the possible scenarios, why would we? And also IME, as a lvl
60 for a long time now, it's almost impossible for a non hunter to outrun
mobs in an instance unless the aim is to make it back through the instance
entrance. I've never yet seen an instance mob "on a leash", at least not a
useful one because it's rare to have the space in an instance to run
"forever".
Anonymous
July 29, 2005 1:55:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 09:45:49 +0100, "porl" <porlp@btinternet.com> scribed
into the ether:

>
>"Marshall" <Marshall@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:HMfGe.6542$Uk3.1878@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>> If you've played a hunter long enough to lose n00b status at it, you know
>> when to run for it and kick in your speed boosts *before* your pet dies
>> and
>> they all end up in your lap. I don't care how persistent they are, they're
>> not
>> going to catch you with Cheetah/Pack on, and a minimal headstart. They
>> do have their leashes on, and won't chase you forever.
>
>I don't want to get into a pissing contest. I simply wanted to say that IME
>the tactic proposed was valid and I didn't realise we were excluding
>instances from the possible scenarios, why would we? And also IME, as a lvl
>60 for a long time now, it's almost impossible for a non hunter to outrun
>mobs in an instance

Hell, in my experience, it is all but impossible for the Hunter to outrun
mobs in an instance. Cheetah is simply NOT that fast.

> unless the aim is to make it back through the instance
>entrance.

And only if that entrance is close.

> I've never yet seen an instance mob "on a leash", at least not a
>useful one because it's rare to have the space in an instance to run
>"forever".

I have never even heard of an instance mob which stopped chasing someone it
had aggrod on, except with feign death/vanish or equivalent other
abilities. They chase forever.
Anonymous
July 29, 2005 3:21:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
news:g6vje1902b7oddccq0ap0qia708lc47cv7@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 09:45:49 +0100, "porl" <porlp@btinternet.com> scribed
> into the ether:
>
>>
>>"Marshall" <Marshall@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>news:HMfGe.6542$Uk3.1878@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>>> If you've played a hunter long enough to lose n00b status at it, you
>>> know
>>> when to run for it and kick in your speed boosts *before* your pet dies
>>> and
>>> they all end up in your lap. I don't care how persistent they are,
>>> they're
>>> not
>>> going to catch you with Cheetah/Pack on, and a minimal headstart. They
>>> do have their leashes on, and won't chase you forever.
>>
>>I don't want to get into a pissing contest. I simply wanted to say that
>>IME
>>the tactic proposed was valid and I didn't realise we were excluding
>>instances from the possible scenarios, why would we? And also IME, as a
>>lvl
>>60 for a long time now, it's almost impossible for a non hunter to outrun
>>mobs in an instance
>
> Hell, in my experience, it is all but impossible for the Hunter to outrun
> mobs in an instance. Cheetah is simply NOT that fast.

Yes, I should have made it clearer that to "outrun" mobs involved feign
death at some point rather than actually sprinting away. Almost invariably
with AotC on a mob will breathe on you and that's it.

> I have never even heard of an instance mob which stopped chasing someone
> it
> had aggrod on, except with feign death/vanish or equivalent other
> abilities. They chase forever.

That is my experience as well.
Anonymous
July 29, 2005 5:26:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 09:55:49 GMT, Matt Frisch
<matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 09:45:49 +0100, "porl" <porlp@btinternet.com> scribed
>into the ether:

>> I've never yet seen an instance mob "on a leash", at least not a
>>useful one because it's rare to have the space in an instance to run
>>"forever".
>
>I have never even heard of an instance mob which stopped chasing someone it
>had aggrod on, except with feign death/vanish or equivalent other
>abilities. They chase forever.

I have experienced it, but only in extreme cases.

Eg. Blackrock Spire - run past all then mobs at the entrance - up the
stairs, and left where you jump down - run past the four orcs and two
wolves, through the small tunnel/hallway - go left and jump down the
"shortcut". You are now on the bottommost floor of BRS and has a bunch
of enemies aggroed behind you.
However, then one time I did this nothing trained to me, and after a
minute or so I went out of combat...

My guess is that the game gave up on finding a path from them to me
after a while, and decided to reset them.


A similar case was also in BRS, where I mind controlled an ogre on the
bridge leading to Wyrmthalak, after killing off his orc friend, my
group suggested that I made him jump over the side of the bridge. Nice
plan, except that the ogre didn't die from the fall... We feared that
he would train all the way back to us, but he didn't and instead
respawned back at his initial location a few seconds later where we
killed him.

Again, this must have been a case of the game giving up on pathing him
to us, and instead choosing to just reset him.


So it happens, just very rarely and not really in a very predictable
fasion - my guess is that you need to get them evade bugged, and then
get pretty far out of aggro range for a while.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
Anonymous
July 30, 2005 12:08:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"porl" <porlp@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:3ku8loF105honU1@individual.net...
>
> "Marshall" <Marshall@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:HMfGe.6542$Uk3.1878@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>> If you've played a hunter long enough to lose n00b status at it, you know
>> when to run for it and kick in your speed boosts *before* your pet dies and
>> they all end up in your lap. I don't care how persistent they are, they're
>> not
>> going to catch you with Cheetah/Pack on, and a minimal headstart. They
>> do have their leashes on, and won't chase you forever.
>
> I don't want to get into a pissing contest. I simply wanted to say that IME
> the tactic proposed was valid and I didn't realise we were excluding instances
> from the possible scenarios, why would we? And also IME, as a lvl 60 for a
> long time now, it's almost impossible for a non hunter to outrun mobs in an
> instance unless the aim is to make it back through the instance entrance. I've
> never yet seen an instance mob "on a leash", at least not a useful one because
> it's rare to have the space in an instance to run "forever".

Then lets make the distinction that in regular non-instance soloing and
questing, it is a perfectly good tactic, whereas in most instances, it may
not be. Since you are (most likely) not soloing in instances, and have
4+ other support characters besides your pet, it would mostly likely be
an irrelevant tactic there, anyway. FD would be much more valuable
in those situations where you are the sole survivor of your party and the
angry mobs are looking hungrily at you.

But no, I personally was not talking about instances, originally.
-Marshall
Anonymous
July 30, 2005 12:12:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"porl" <porlp@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:3kue8vFve3kiU1@individual.net...
>
> "Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
> news:g6vje1902b7oddccq0ap0qia708lc47cv7@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 09:45:49 +0100, "porl" <porlp@btinternet.com> scribed
>> into the ether:
>>
>>>
>>>"Marshall" <Marshall@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>news:HMfGe.6542$Uk3.1878@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>
>>>> If you've played a hunter long enough to lose n00b status at it, you know
>>>> when to run for it and kick in your speed boosts *before* your pet dies
>>>> and
>>>> they all end up in your lap. I don't care how persistent they are, they're
>>>> not
>>>> going to catch you with Cheetah/Pack on, and a minimal headstart. They
>>>> do have their leashes on, and won't chase you forever.
>>>
>>>I don't want to get into a pissing contest. I simply wanted to say that IME
>>>the tactic proposed was valid and I didn't realise we were excluding
>>>instances from the possible scenarios, why would we? And also IME, as a lvl
>>>60 for a long time now, it's almost impossible for a non hunter to outrun
>>>mobs in an instance
>>
>> Hell, in my experience, it is all but impossible for the Hunter to outrun
>> mobs in an instance. Cheetah is simply NOT that fast.
>
> Yes, I should have made it clearer that to "outrun" mobs involved feign death
> at some point rather than actually sprinting away. Almost invariably with AotC
> on a mob will breathe on you and that's it.
>
>> I have never even heard of an instance mob which stopped chasing someone it
>> had aggrod on, except with feign death/vanish or equivalent other
>> abilities. They chase forever.
>
> That is my experience as well.

Ok, so you guys were thinking of all this from an instance-centric viewpoint,
whereas I was looking at it from a non-instance, outside-world soloing and
questing viewpoint. It is a usefual and viable tactic outside of instances, and
not inside them. Fair 'nuff?
-Marshall
Anonymous
July 30, 2005 3:06:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Marshall" <Marshall@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:I4wGe.10217$dU3.2741@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Ok, so you guys were thinking of all this from an instance-centric
> viewpoint,
> whereas I was looking at it from a non-instance, outside-world soloing and
> questing viewpoint. It is a usefual and viable tactic outside of
> instances, and
> not inside them. Fair 'nuff?

Not sure. I'm considering blackballing your renewal aplpication at the 1337
Hunters Clique :) 
Anonymous
July 30, 2005 10:21:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
news:o 0vge11rm25kdor0hn9jt5rrdgv24ltb4q@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 00:05:41 GMT, "Marshall" <Marshall@nospam.com> scribed
> into the ether:
>
>>
>>"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
>>news:h7kee19v6mt887a8pcn1hgd9qhbjcrlh3m@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:35:41 +0200, DLPnet <dlpnet-@-free.fr> scribed
>>> into
>>> the ether:
....
>>>>I don t really understand 'cower', does this mean that your pet can
>>>>release threat so that the mob comes TO you ?
>>>
>>> Yes. If your pet is at 10% health, and you are full, wouldn't you rather
>>> have the monster beat on you for a bit rather than having to ressurect
>>> your
>>> pet?
>>
....
>> But usually a better option at that point,
>>is just to stop shooting and use Heal Pet for 5 seconds, and let him keep
>>aggro.
>
> I've never been terribly impressed with mend pet. Usually the time is
> better spent hurting the mob instead of healing the pet. It's also a
> serious mana-hog.
>
....

In the scenario indicated, where the pet is low health and you aren't
worried about switching aggro, mend pet isn't a bad choice. It does two
things: 1) Heals the pet (the obvious) so it can continue adding dps and
eventually regain aggro during the fight and 2) Increases the hunter's aggro
with the possibility that the mob will switch to the hunter without the
hunter doing anything else.

Assuming the mob isn't hitting hard enough to take down the health faster
than mend pet adds it, mend pet is helpful since it increases the total
health pool of the "team" (hunter and pet), making you more formidable in a
fight. As a BM spec, I have some points in increasing mend pet so it does
more healing. I've found Mending back to back usually switches the mobs
aggro at which point I hit Spirit Bond and Monkey. This results in the pet
healing me and gaining back aggro over time, meanwhile the mob has been
hitting into our combined hp pools with heals on either end. That makes for
a pretty good tactic in PvE imho. With multimobs this tactic often splits
the mobs resulting in further distributing the damage across both health
pools. (Which we can manage back to the pet if needed.)

The downside is the mana drain. Usually when I have to mend back to back I
end up drinking a mana potion. On the upside, if I am managing aggro back
to the pet, I usually won't want to special right away except Sting after
the aggro switches back to pet. That means my mana is regenning and being
conserved.

My usual preference in solo PvE is to keep the pet standing if I can during
a fight. So I mend liberally. However, that's because I'm a BM spec. If I
were a Marks/Survival with BM points only in Hawk and Monkey, I might very
well handle things differently since my pet would be wimpier, my mend would
be weaker, and I couldn't Spirit Bond to be healed myself. But as a BM, a
heftier pet, a decent heal from me to the pet, and a decent heal from the
pet to me give me good incentive to Mend regularly.

Hope that Helps and Happy Hunting! :) 
Anonymous
July 30, 2005 10:50:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 06:21:02 GMT, "A.G. Turner" <nospam@my.net> scribed
into the ether:

>
>"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
>news:o 0vge11rm25kdor0hn9jt5rrdgv24ltb4q@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 00:05:41 GMT, "Marshall" <Marshall@nospam.com> scribed
>> into the ether:

>>>> Yes. If your pet is at 10% health, and you are full, wouldn't you rather
>>>> have the monster beat on you for a bit rather than having to ressurect
>>>> your
>>>> pet?
>>>
>...
>>> But usually a better option at that point,
>>>is just to stop shooting and use Heal Pet for 5 seconds, and let him keep
>>>aggro.
>>
>> I've never been terribly impressed with mend pet. Usually the time is
>> better spent hurting the mob instead of healing the pet. It's also a
>> serious mana-hog.
>>
>...
>
>In the scenario indicated, where the pet is low health and you aren't
>worried about switching aggro, mend pet isn't a bad choice. It does two
>things: 1) Heals the pet (the obvious) so it can continue adding dps and
>eventually regain aggro during the fight and 2) Increases the hunter's aggro
>with the possibility that the mob will switch to the hunter without the
>hunter doing anything else.

Well, I didn't say that I didn't *use* mend pet, just that it isn't very
impressive to me. I'm often better served by maxxing out my DPS and killing
the whatever-it-is that much faster...the pet regens insanely fast when out
of combat.

>Assuming the mob isn't hitting hard enough to take down the health faster
>than mend pet adds it, mend pet is helpful since it increases the total
>health pool of the "team" (hunter and pet), making you more formidable in a
>fight. As a BM spec, I have some points in increasing mend pet so it does
>more healing. I've found Mending back to back usually switches the mobs
>aggro at which point I hit Spirit Bond and Monkey.

Heavy BM builds can vary the effectiveness quite a bit. I do 31 Marks/20
Beast: 5 Endurance Training, 3 Imp Monkey/2 Imp Hawk, 5 Unleashed Fury, 5
Thick Hide.
Anonymous
July 30, 2005 3:16:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
news:qg8me1l186ps1qs88celg67ehb37os8mig@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 06:21:02 GMT, "A.G. Turner" <nospam@my.net> scribed
> into the ether:
>
>>
>>"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
>>news:o 0vge11rm25kdor0hn9jt5rrdgv24ltb4q@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 00:05:41 GMT, "Marshall" <Marshall@nospam.com>
>>> scribed
>>> into the ether:
>
>>>>> Yes. If your pet is at 10% health, and you are full, wouldn't you
>>>>> rather
>>>>> have the monster beat on you for a bit rather than having to ressurect
>>>>> your
>>>>> pet?
>>>>
>>...
>>>> But usually a better option at that point,
>>>>is just to stop shooting and use Heal Pet for 5 seconds, and let him
>>>>keep
>>>>aggro.
>>>
>>> I've never been terribly impressed with mend pet. Usually the time is
>>> better spent hurting the mob instead of healing the pet. It's also a
>>> serious mana-hog.
>>>
>>...
>>
>>In the scenario indicated, where the pet is low health and you aren't
>>worried about switching aggro, mend pet isn't a bad choice. It does two
>>things: 1) Heals the pet (the obvious) so it can continue adding dps and
>>eventually regain aggro during the fight and 2) Increases the hunter's
>>aggro
>>with the possibility that the mob will switch to the hunter without the
>>hunter doing anything else.
>
> Well, I didn't say that I didn't *use* mend pet, just that it isn't very
> impressive to me. I'm often better served by maxxing out my DPS and
> killing
> the whatever-it-is that much faster...the pet regens insanely fast when
> out
> of combat.
>

I agree quicker kills help save health. :)  Something I do in thick mob
areas is bandage the pet immediately after a kill. Add bandage to their
natural regen and pet is full health quick enough to handle any adds that
happen to aggro soon after a kill.

>>Assuming the mob isn't hitting hard enough to take down the health faster
>>than mend pet adds it, mend pet is helpful since it increases the total
>>health pool of the "team" (hunter and pet), making you more formidable in
>>a
>>fight. As a BM spec, I have some points in increasing mend pet so it does
>>more healing. I've found Mending back to back usually switches the mobs
>>aggro at which point I hit Spirit Bond and Monkey.
>
> Heavy BM builds can vary the effectiveness quite a bit. I do 31 Marks/20
> Beast: 5 Endurance Training, 3 Imp Monkey/2 Imp Hawk, 5 Unleashed Fury, 5
> Thick Hide.
>

I went the other way with 31 BM and 20 Marks to try to balance a pet build
and overall damage. In BM I add Improved Mend (2), Ferocity (5), Frenzy (5)
and Spirit Bond. The Ferocity and Frenzy make the pet's damage worthwhile.
Plus the increased attack speed from Frenzy increases the effectiveness of
Spirit Bond. A 1.2 cat hasted 30 percent and giving me 40 health every hit
makes for a reasonable heal from Spirit Bond (and it's pretty much always
hasted). The 10 percent increase in Mend isn't huge but it's noticeable.
Taken together, if things aren't dropping quick enough to keep my pet from
going low health, I definitely throw the heal, even when that means lower
dps.

But if I were heavy Marks with Trueshot going, I might be able to eek out
enough more damage to keep from needing to use the mend. (I do have
Improved Hunter's Mark (4), Lethal Shot (5) and Mortal Shot (5) though. Add
that to Improved Aspect of the Hawk (5) on the BM side and I'm fairly happy
with my damage output from ranged. I have issues with the pet keeping
aggro, so from a damage output perspective I consider that a good sign.
lol.)

That's the nice thing about WoW, we can tailor the classes a bit and then
adjust our tactics to our choices. :) 
Anonymous
July 30, 2005 5:52:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"A.G. Turner" <nospam@my.net> wrote in message
news:bkJGe.2263$oY.1753@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...

> I agree quicker kills help save health. :)  Something I do in thick mob
> areas is bandage the pet immediately after a kill. Add bandage to their
> natural regen and pet is full health quick enough to handle any adds that
> happen to aggro soon after a kill.

I can see this is giong to run and run. Ok, what about when you're fighting
something that's quite difficult, like the elite dragonkin thingies in
Burning Steppes for that quest. I certainly couldn't take them down without
at least one mend pet.
Anonymous
July 30, 2005 7:02:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"porl" <porlp@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:3kvnj6Fvuj94U1@individual.net...
>
> "Marshall" <Marshall@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:I4wGe.10217$dU3.2741@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> Ok, so you guys were thinking of all this from an instance-centric viewpoint,
>> whereas I was looking at it from a non-instance, outside-world soloing and
>> questing viewpoint. It is a usefual and viable tactic outside of instances,
>> and
>> not inside them. Fair 'nuff?
>
> Not sure. I'm considering blackballing your renewal aplpication at the 1337
> Hunters Clique :) 

If it means losing a chance to be considered '1337', by all means, do so :-P
-Marshall
Anonymous
July 30, 2005 7:06:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

A.G. Turner wrote:

> But if I were heavy Marks with Trueshot going, I might be able to eek out
> enough more damage to keep from needing to use the mend. (I do have
> Improved Hunter's Mark (4), Lethal Shot (5) and Mortal Shot (5) though. Add
> that to Improved Aspect of the Hawk (5) on the BM side and I'm fairly happy
> with my damage output from ranged. I have issues with the pet keeping
> aggro, so from a damage output perspective I consider that a good sign.
> lol.)
>
> That's the nice thing about WoW, we can tailor the classes a bit and then
> adjust our tactics to our choices. :) 
>
>

Well currently at level 38, beast mastery all the way, pet is always
using claw/bite (never growl or whatnot) and I hardly ever steal aggro
from the pet... unless I want it (using multishot or arcane shot). what
I enjoy is killing 3-4 enemies at once using my pet pretty much like a
main tank in instances, hitting every mob with a sting, laying an
exploding trap and alternating targets until it seems like the exploding
trap will kill them all, at which point I shoot a multishot, call back
the pet, let them all come trigger the trap and collect loot. It's not
necessarily faster, but it's sure more fun!

As said before, pet is always using bite/claw, that's a lot of damage to
be honest with all the talents, crits and frenzy, and aggro management
is done with distracting shot, disengage, feign death and mend pet on
top of raw damage. I can solo two elites of my level currently.

I can't wait for the new talents :p 

https://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/hunte...
Anonymous
July 30, 2005 10:58:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

porl wrote:

> "Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:42eb7b8f$0$3304$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
>
>
>>I can't wait for the new talents :p 
>>
>>https://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/hunte...
>
>
> Hmmm.
>
>
Fair enough. What did you mean?
Anonymous
July 30, 2005 11:05:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Marshall wrote:
> Ok, so you guys were thinking of all this from an instance-centric viewpoint,
> whereas I was looking at it from a non-instance, outside-world soloing and
> questing viewpoint. It is a usefual and viable tactic outside of instances, and
> not inside them. Fair 'nuff?

More than fair, since nobody invites hunters to instances anyway! :-D

Cheers!
David...
Anonymous
July 30, 2005 11:44:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:52:07 +0100, "porl" <porlp@btinternet.com> scribed
into the ether:

>
>"A.G. Turner" <nospam@my.net> wrote in message
>news:bkJGe.2263$oY.1753@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>
>> I agree quicker kills help save health. :)  Something I do in thick mob
>> areas is bandage the pet immediately after a kill. Add bandage to their
>> natural regen and pet is full health quick enough to handle any adds that
>> happen to aggro soon after a kill.
>
>I can see this is giong to run and run. Ok, what about when you're fighting
>something that's quite difficult, like the elite dragonkin thingies in
>Burning Steppes for that quest. I certainly couldn't take them down without
>at least one mend pet.

Only time I had a problem on the quest was when proximity yielded 2 at
once. That's when you command the pet to cease attacking and run.

The really hard part was fighting the two level 50 nameds...fortunately,
being Mr. Awesome Studly Pull God, I managed to split them. That was still
a brutal pair of fights.

Yes, I did use mend pet. Nobody is saying that mend pet is worthless, just
that it isn't all that fabulous.
Anonymous
July 30, 2005 11:48:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42ebb1d8$0$25051$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
> porl wrote:
>
>> "Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:42eb7b8f$0$3304$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
>>
>>
>>>I can't wait for the new talents :p 
>>>
>>>https://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/hunte...
>>
>>
>> Hmmm.
> Fair enough. What did you mean?

Perusing the previewed talents tree I'm anticipating a lot of excitement.
For and against.
Anonymous
July 31, 2005 7:07:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"porl" <porlp@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:3l1betF10c81iU1@individual.net...
>
> "A.G. Turner" <nospam@my.net> wrote in message
> news:bkJGe.2263$oY.1753@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>
>> I agree quicker kills help save health. :)  Something I do in thick mob
>> areas is bandage the pet immediately after a kill. Add bandage to their
>> natural regen and pet is full health quick enough to handle any adds that
>> happen to aggro soon after a kill.
>
> I can see this is giong to run and run. Ok, what about when you're
> fighting something that's quite difficult, like the elite dragonkin
> thingies in Burning Steppes for that quest. I certainly couldn't take them
> down without at least one mend pet.
>
>

Close elites are the place where aggro management shines the most I think.
That in my experience has been where I need the mob to hit into both my
health pool and the pets. It's also where I've seen the greatest benefit
from the heals on both sides, Mend Pet and Spirit Bond. For the most part I
didn't need to do anything special to switch aggro. My usual damage was
enough to keep the pet and I close on the hate list. Generally when I
popped the Mend Pet that would push the aggro to me without doing anything
else. I would Spirit Bond and let the dragon hit into my health bar as far
as I felt comfortable by Wing Clipping to hold aggro longer. When the time
came I scooted away a bit and usually on the next Growl it was back on the
pet while I gained range and stung. Depending on how close aggro was I
might turn autoshot off a round while the pet growled again, but generally
if I just turned away for a shot I was ok. Even the same mobs vary in how
lucky they get with hits and resists and how lucky we get with crits and
such. So it's quite the balancing game. I agree, in those close fights
especially with elites, any form of healing can make or break taking the mob
down.
Anonymous
July 31, 2005 7:35:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42eb7b8f$0$3304$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
> A.G. Turner wrote:
>
>>... I have issues with the pet keeping aggro, so from a damage output
>>perspective I consider that a good sign. lol.)
>>
....
>
> Well currently at level 38, beast mastery all the way, pet is always using
> claw/bite (never growl or whatnot) and I hardly ever steal aggro from the
> pet... unless I want it (using multishot or arcane shot). ... It's not
> necessarily faster, but it's sure more fun!
>
> As said before, pet is always using bite/claw, that's a lot of damage to
> be honest with all the talents, crits and frenzy, and aggro management is
> done with distracting shot, disengage, feign death and mend pet on top of
> raw damage. I can solo two elites of my level currently.
>
....

I didn't have aggro management issues for the most part until I put points
into the Marks tree. At that point my damage started going up
significantly, plus I was adding a lot of Agility/Ranged Attack Power/base
weapon dps through equipment. Taken together this meant my damage output
was so much greater than the pets, that even with it using Growl I started
getting aggro fairly regularly from mobs. This called for some tactics
adjustments to balance aggro more on the pet's side.

My experience with NOT using Growl was that even in the early levels I stole
aggro from the pet almost immediately. While I don't dispute your
experience, it's hard for me to envision a scenario where my ranged damage
would be lower than my pet's enhanced melee damage. If my ranged damage
were in fact that low I think I would have to take a hard look at why I was
underperforming on my side of the damage equation. After all, the Hunter
using ranged is or certainly should be the primary damage producer. And
without a taunt like Growl in play, aggro goes to the most damage, which
should always be the Hunter, from level 10 on. (There is a proximity
factor, but even with that the Hunter ranged damage should still so
significantly exceed the pet's melee damage that aggro based on damage
should switch to the Hunter.)

The only time I ever managed to have a pet not using Growl hold aggro was
when I waited until the pet was about a quarter into the mob's health bar,
stung, turned off autoshot and then waited until about half health to turn
autoshot back on. When the mob was down two thirds of its health I could
sometimes squeeze off an Arcane. But yes, the pace of killing without a
Growling pet was much slower. The added pet damage without Growl wasn't
nearly what I could produce by using specials and firing constantly once my
pet had Growled the mob. I have used pets without Growl several times since
I had to use them when I trained in a pet ability with a new tame (new tames
never have Growl). Definitely slower killing. ;) 
Anonymous
July 31, 2005 6:30:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

A.G. Turner wrote:
> "Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:42eb7b8f$0$3304$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
>
>>A.G. Turner wrote:
>>
>>
>>>... I have issues with the pet keeping aggro, so from a damage output
>>>perspective I consider that a good sign. lol.)
>>>
>
> ...
>
>>Well currently at level 38, beast mastery all the way, pet is always using
>>claw/bite (never growl or whatnot) and I hardly ever steal aggro from the
>>pet... unless I want it (using multishot or arcane shot). ... It's not
>>necessarily faster, but it's sure more fun!
>>
>>As said before, pet is always using bite/claw, that's a lot of damage to
>>be honest with all the talents, crits and frenzy, and aggro management is
>>done with distracting shot, disengage, feign death and mend pet on top of
>>raw damage. I can solo two elites of my level currently.
>>
>
> ...
>
> I didn't have aggro management issues for the most part until I put points
> into the Marks tree. At that point my damage started going up
> significantly, plus I was adding a lot of Agility/Ranged Attack Power/base
> weapon dps through equipment. Taken together this meant my damage output
> was so much greater than the pets, that even with it using Growl I started
> getting aggro fairly regularly from mobs. This called for some tactics
> adjustments to balance aggro more on the pet's side.
>
> My experience with NOT using Growl was that even in the early levels I stole
> aggro from the pet almost immediately. While I don't dispute your
> experience, it's hard for me to envision a scenario where my ranged damage
> would be lower than my pet's enhanced melee damage. If my ranged damage
> were in fact that low I think I would have to take a hard look at why I was
> underperforming on my side of the damage equation. After all, the Hunter
> using ranged is or certainly should be the primary damage producer. And
> without a taunt like Growl in play, aggro goes to the most damage, which
> should always be the Hunter, from level 10 on. (There is a proximity
> factor, but even with that the Hunter ranged damage should still so
> significantly exceed the pet's melee damage that aggro based on damage
> should switch to the Hunter.)
>
> The only time I ever managed to have a pet not using Growl hold aggro was
> when I waited until the pet was about a quarter into the mob's health bar,
> stung, turned off autoshot and then waited until about half health to turn
> autoshot back on. When the mob was down two thirds of its health I could
> sometimes squeeze off an Arcane. But yes, the pace of killing without a
> Growling pet was much slower. The added pet damage without Growl wasn't
> nearly what I could produce by using specials and firing constantly once my
> pet had Growled the mob. I have used pets without Growl several times since
> I had to use them when I trained in a pet ability with a new tame (new tames
> never have Growl). Definitely slower killing. ;) 
>
>

Claw and bite generate additional threat. And the damage output is
significant, to be honest, claw by itself is about 30dps at level 38,
and doubles the chance to crit by doubling the amount of attacks per
second (which in turn increases pet dps by 30%). I'm not claiming
anything, except that's the way it goes for me. my pet does about half
my bow damage using damage meter stats, and I can keep it biting and
clawing without me being targeted, even against multiple mobs.

Orc hunter here with the Rake, so an additional 5% pet damage. Maybe
that's the trick.

I pull with viper sting, *then* pet steals aggro, and never hands it
back except when I shoot multishot immediately followed with arcane shot
(which happens when I want to steal aggro from the pet without using
distracting shot). I'm more or less cheetahed all day long and seldom
use hunter's mark, though. When I do use growl/aspect of the
hawk/hunter's mark, damage output is definitely lower. But that must be
because I'm a beastmaster, and hardly any skill add 30dps to my bow
damage output, making up for the loss of claw. Except maybe when
toggling rapid fire together with mark/hawk?

In any case, when I need my pet to off tank in a group, yes, it growls.
Anonymous
July 31, 2005 6:31:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

porl wrote:

> "Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:42ebb1d8$0$25051$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
>
>>porl wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:42eb7b8f$0$3304$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I can't wait for the new talents :p 
>>>>
>>>>https://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/hunte...
>>>
>>>
>>>Hmmm.
>>
>>Fair enough. What did you mean?
>
>
> Perusing the previewed talents tree I'm anticipating a lot of excitement.
> For and against.
>
>

Hehe. hard to choose, eh?
Anonymous
July 31, 2005 7:22:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42ecc4ac$0$25018$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
> porl wrote:
>
>> "Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:42ebb1d8$0$25051$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
>>
>>>porl wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:42eb7b8f$0$3304$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I can't wait for the new talents :p 
>>>>>
>>>>>https://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/hunte...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hmmm.
>>>
>>>Fair enough. What did you mean?
>>
>>
>> Perusing the previewed talents tree I'm anticipating a lot of excitement.
>> For and against.
>
> Hehe. hard to choose, eh?

Yeah, but I'm not sure for the right reasons. The survival and MM tree seem
to be a bit mixed up. Maybe it will all come clear after some expensive
playing about.
Anonymous
July 31, 2005 9:32:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42ecc470$0$25018$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
....
> Claw and bite generate additional threat. And the damage output is
> significant, to be honest, claw by itself is about 30dps at level 38, and
> doubles the chance to crit by doubling the amount of attacks per second
> (which in turn increases pet dps by 30%). I'm not claiming anything,
> except that's the way it goes for me. my pet does about half my bow damage
> using damage meter stats, and I can keep it biting and clawing without me
> being targeted, even against multiple mobs.
>
> Orc hunter here with the Rake, so an additional 5% pet damage. Maybe
> that's the trick.
>
> I pull with viper sting, *then* pet steals aggro, and never hands it back
> except when I shoot multishot immediately followed with arcane shot (which
> happens when I want to steal aggro from the pet without using distracting
> shot). I'm more or less cheetahed all day long and seldom use hunter's
> mark, though. When I do use growl/aspect of the hawk/hunter's mark, damage
> output is definitely lower. But that must be because I'm a beastmaster,
> and hardly any skill add 30dps to my bow damage output, making up for the
> loss of claw. Except maybe when toggling rapid fire together with
> mark/hawk?
>
> In any case, when I need my pet to off tank in a group, yes, it growls.

Using Growl doesn't drop Claw to 0% damage output though it does reduce it
due to Growl using some focus intermittently during the fight. I generally
notice about a third of a bar of focus unused during a fight if I turn on
Growl and Bite but turn Claw off. I do that when I want the pet to hold
solid aggro with no chance of switching (so I can unleash full ranged side
DPS which is mana intensive so I don't do it a lot) or when the Growls are
being resisted over half the time.

The 5% racial bonus would definitely help the pet's damage output. I
couldn't glean from the post how far into the mob's health bar you let the
pet get before you start your ranged attack, but the further in it goes the
more aggro it generates up front so that may be a factor. The only other
thing I can think of is if you put points into Intimidation and keep that
up. That would create additonal threat, but I can't remember the means by
which it does offhand (through damage or through Growl).

I do know that if I turn Growl off with 20 in Marks plus 5 in Hawk on BM
side, the pet doesn't hold aggro over one crit. Reasonably high agility
(over 200), Ranged Attack Power boost from weapon (60 iirc), Moderately good
weapon base dps (38ish iirc), Hunter's Mark with 5 points in it, I posted
that number incorrectly in another post (always), Aspect of Hawk with 5
points in it (always at ranged), 5 points in Marks to improve crit chance, 5
points in Marks to improve crit damage, is my setup on my damage side.
Immolation Trap, Sting, autoshot, Arcane Shot once or twice is typical
damage order. Typical crit for a regular shot is in the 350 to 500 area.
Pet is maxed in all damage output categories in BM and even if I kick in
Spirit Bond to give pet additional threat through healing, aggro switches
within about five shots (depending on number of crits, misses and resists).
Night Elf with the starting agility bonus so maybe that helps tip the scale
a bit to my damage side, but my agility with equipment can easily be
exceeded.

For what it's worth, I've often wished I could switch Growl off to pick up
the extra Claws that focus uses, but every time I've tried I get the same
result of being 90 percent melee which yields a much lower dps for me than
ranged. My hat's off to you for being able to do it and stay ranged!
Anonymous
August 1, 2005 2:36:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 15:06:57 +0200, Babe Bridou <babebridou@hotmail.com>
scribed into the ether:


>I can't wait for the new talents :p 
>
>https://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/hunte...

That's quite an upgrade to the tree. I especially love the description for
the last power. Terminator anyone?
Anonymous
August 1, 2005 7:11:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

A.G. Turner wrote:
> Using Growl doesn't drop Claw to 0% damage output though it does reduce it
> due to Growl using some focus intermittently during the fight. I generally
> notice about a third of a bar of focus unused during a fight if I turn on
> Growl and Bite but turn Claw off. I do that when I want the pet to hold
> solid aggro with no chance of switching (so I can unleash full ranged side
> DPS which is mana intensive so I don't do it a lot) or when the Growls are
> being resisted over half the time.

Well, Claw costs less focus and has no cooldown, so once the pet's
focus is emptied, it will always claw back to empty, and never growl.
You have to get into some very tricky pet micromanaging to growl AND
claw in the same fight.

>
> The 5% racial bonus would definitely help the pet's damage output. I
> couldn't glean from the post how far into the mob's health bar you let the
> pet get before you start your ranged attack, but the further in it goes the
> more aggro it generates up front so that may be a factor. The only other
> thing I can think of is if you put points into Intimidation and keep that
> up. That would create additonal threat, but I can't remember the means by
> which it does offhand (through damage or through Growl).

No intimidation... and no waiting. As said, I lay a trap and shoot
serpent sting/autoshoot. The mob goes to me, Harry (my pet) intercepts
with bite+claw+normal attack, grabs aggro and never gives it back,
unless I want it to make profit of the trap damage.

> I do know that if I turn Growl off with 20 in Marks plus 5 in Hawk on BM
> side, the pet doesn't hold aggro over one crit. Reasonably high agility
> (over 200), Ranged Attack Power boost from weapon (60 iirc), Moderately good
> weapon base dps (38ish iirc), Hunter's Mark with 5 points in it, I posted
> that number incorrectly in another post (always), Aspect of Hawk with 5
> points in it (always at ranged), 5 points in Marks to improve crit chance, 5
> points in Marks to improve crit damage, is my setup on my damage side.
> Immolation Trap, Sting, autoshot, Arcane Shot once or twice is typical
> damage order. Typical crit for a regular shot is in the 350 to 500 area.
> Pet is maxed in all damage output categories in BM and even if I kick in
> Spirit Bond to give pet additional threat through healing, aggro switches
> within about five shots (depending on number of crits, misses and resists).
> Night Elf with the starting agility bonus so maybe that helps tip the scale
> a bit to my damage side, but my agility with equipment can easily be
> exceeded.

I was curious, and wanted to test that before the hunter talent changes
kick in. So I respecc'ed (was 29 BM, now 29 marksmanship). Same gear,
same pet, same tactic: using growl, I kill a bit faster, but my
downtime is huge.
using claw, pet can't claim aggro the same way as before. I have to
make it claw his way into the mob for a while before shooting my sting.

Got my first 650ish aimed shot crits... 350 autoshots, 400 multishots.
That's nice. But all in all it doesn't speed up my grind. All it does
is steal aggro from the pet and drain my mana. I'm a bit angry about
it, because I can't play with the pet anymore. He's no longer the pet
that I used to love and play with, and now I'm forced to kite mobs. I
can't fight them upfront because all my pet's damage has gone away. I
can't play around with instant shots runnin and jumpin, I can't pull
four level 35-36 Stranglethorn Lashtails outside of Grom Gol and play
with them... and I can't challenge level 40+ (mounted) alliance
anymore, no more bestial swiftness...

Nah I lost too many things that made my level 38 hunter so fun to play.
I'm pretty sure I'll stick to Beast Mastery/Survival, even if it means
less damage.

>
> For what it's worth, I've often wished I could switch Growl off to pick up
> the extra Claws that focus uses, but every time I've tried I get the same
> result of being 90 percent melee which yields a much lower dps for me than
> ranged. My hat's off to you for being able to do it and stay ranged!

Well, I love going melee. It makes killing not necessarily slower for
me (pet deals as much damage in any case), but when I go melee, I
charge the opponent, and wing clip is used to keep the enemy at melee
range, not the contrary :p 
!