Exploit? Or do I whinge?

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The other day, I was "summoned" to Southshore by my missus, who was
having a little difficulty and couldn't make out why.
what had happened was that she had been set up on by the undead
gribbly that is summoned as the result of a quest, Herasomethings
remains, Now I did think that having an undead gribbly in the cemetary
in the town across the road from tarren mill was cool, until this.
There were a pair of high lvl Horde in the cemetary, who had waited
for the gribblies summoning and what they had done was, pull the
guards into the area, which sent The puppets that accompany him out of
the cemetary and attacking people minding their own business. This
sent the targets PVP enabled, and then these two dicks would attack
them.
I lodged a report, because I believed this to be exploiting. On a PvP
server, it would be no issue, but Arathor isn't and people want to be
free to get on with their own thing. I could abide it if Southshore
was a higher level area, but level 30 odds can't take on lvl 50 elite
undeads normally and especially not when there are a pair of hi level
Horde campers manipulating the situation to send players chars PVP
involuntarily.
There was a lot of people wondering what the hell was going on,
especially as they were getting enabled, so I explained in channel and
stated that I'd informed the GMs, at this point, Someone who had
basically stayed clear of the whole affair piped up that he couldn't
see why it needed reporting and a debate started around that.
All in all, I thought I was right to, The GM's got back to me and said
they would do something about it, but some people seemed to think that
it was acceptable? Was it?
 
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Hum... Life is simpler on a PVP server.

The guy is called Helcular, and he's summoned at the end of a level 34
chain quest (I think).

He's designed to go fight the alliance in Southshore and summon undead
guards to assist him.

Having never seen him outside of a PVP server, I can't tell about the
pvp flag. But he definitely charges into the city by himself. The Horde
were only taking advantage of this powerful ally.
 
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Vertoobli wrote:
> The other day, I was "summoned" to Southshore by my missus, who was
> having a little difficulty and couldn't make out why.
> what had happened was that she had been set up on by the undead
> gribbly that is summoned as the result of a quest, Herasomethings
> remains, Now I did think that having an undead gribbly in the cemetary
> in the town across the road from tarren mill was cool, until this.
> There were a pair of high lvl Horde in the cemetary, who had waited
> for the gribblies summoning and what they had done was, pull the
> guards into the area, which sent The puppets that accompany him out of
> the cemetary and attacking people minding their own business. This
> sent the targets PVP enabled, and then these two dicks would attack
> them.
> I lodged a report, because I believed this to be exploiting. On a PvP
> server, it would be no issue, but Arathor isn't and people want to be
> free to get on with their own thing. I could abide it if Southshore
> was a higher level area, but level 30 odds can't take on lvl 50 elite
> undeads normally and especially not when there are a pair of hi level
> Horde campers manipulating the situation to send players chars PVP
> involuntarily.
> There was a lot of people wondering what the hell was going on,
> especially as they were getting enabled, so I explained in channel and
> stated that I'd informed the GMs, at this point, Someone who had
> basically stayed clear of the whole affair piped up that he couldn't
> see why it needed reporting and a debate started around that.
> All in all, I thought I was right to, The GM's got back to me and said
> they would do something about it, but some people seemed to think that
> it was acceptable? Was it?

I know of this event and it is a pain for the Alliance players, even on
a PvP server. It doesn't seem very fair to me that people who have
elected to be able to control exactly when they PvP are suddenly forced
into PvP.

steve.kaye
 
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Christian Stauffer wrote:
> "Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hum... Life is simpler on a PVP server.
> >
> > The guy is called Helcular, and he's summoned at the end of a level 34
> > chain quest (I think).
> >
> > He's designed to go fight the alliance in Southshore and summon undead
> > guards to assist him.
> >
> > Having never seen him outside of a PVP server, I can't tell about the
> > pvp flag. But he definitely charges into the city by himself. The Horde
> > were only taking advantage of this powerful ally.
>
> When I unlocked him, he walked straight into the town, only to get
> wasted by the local defense (southsore/tarren mill on a pre-honor system
> pvp server = lots of 40+ characters).
> I can't see how to exploit him. There's a quest series attached to him,
> which means you can't just summon him over and over, and as long as you
> don't start to fight him, you shouldn't get flagged. The same as if a
> player attacks your city.

On a PvP server the extra undead guys attack anyone and everyone they
see. I would guess that they would do the same on a PvE server too.
If you fight back then you'll be flagged - if you don't fight back
you'll die quickly. If you have a pet on defensive you'll
automatically attack and be flagged.

> If Helcular is able to flag people for PvP, I'd consider it a bug, but
> all in all, it's not really something which people can exploit or will
> hurt you much.

I think that he is able to flag you for PvP based on the original post
and what I explained above.

steve.kaye
 
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"wolfing" <wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1122409695.280532.4500@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> no it's not what this game is all about. That's why there are PvP
> servers and non-PvP servers (in fact, the population of non-PvP vs. PvP
> is like 20000 to 1). If I choose to play in a non-PvP server is
> because I *don't* want to attack or be attacked by other players,

That may be why you chose pve server but that is not the normal distinction.
PVE servers are where you have a *choice* to pvp or not. Thats why they
have battlegrounds, and pvp enabled npc's, and why you automatically flag
pvp if you are so bold as to walk into the enemies capital. Lots of people
pvp on pve servers. What you need to do is learn how not to flag.
 
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On 26 Jul 2005 07:47:44 -0700, "steve.kaye"
<nospam@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:

>
>
>Christian Stauffer wrote:
>> "Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hum... Life is simpler on a PVP server.
>> >
>> > The guy is called Helcular, and he's summoned at the end of a level 34
>> > chain quest (I think).
>> >
>> > He's designed to go fight the alliance in Southshore and summon undead
>> > guards to assist him.
>> >
>> > Having never seen him outside of a PVP server, I can't tell about the
>> > pvp flag. But he definitely charges into the city by himself. The Horde
>> > were only taking advantage of this powerful ally.
>>
>> When I unlocked him, he walked straight into the town, only to get
>> wasted by the local defense (southsore/tarren mill on a pre-honor system
>> pvp server = lots of 40+ characters).
>> I can't see how to exploit him. There's a quest series attached to him,
>> which means you can't just summon him over and over, and as long as you
>> don't start to fight him, you shouldn't get flagged. The same as if a
>> player attacks your city.
>
>On a PvP server the extra undead guys attack anyone and everyone they
>see. I would guess that they would do the same on a PvE server too.
>If you fight back then you'll be flagged - if you don't fight back
>you'll die quickly. If you have a pet on defensive you'll
>automatically attack and be flagged.
>
>> If Helcular is able to flag people for PvP, I'd consider it a bug, but
>> all in all, it's not really something which people can exploit or will
>> hurt you much.
>
>I think that he is able to flag you for PvP based on the original post
>and what I explained above.
>
>steve.kay
It was being done somehow. I think with my GF, it may have been the
pet, shes a hunter. The Puppets were attacking everyone with in radius
and when they were kiting the guards out, they were running as far as
the tavern and attacking people and people wound up flagged.
But, a lot of people couldn't understand what was happening, they
found themselves PVP enabled and then ganked by some guys that were
way above lvl 50, who couldn't be reached, because noone could get
past Helcular and his lunatic puppets, of which there were about 12.

As for hurting much, My armour and weapon was ruined and my respawn
time went to about 2 minutes added to which, I couldn't use the spirit
healer, because shes in the Cemetary, where Helcular (Un) lives.
 
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>pvp on pve servers. What you need to do is learn how not to flag.
>
And apparently that cannot be done in certain quests. By game design.
So I stand by my statement that it is what the game is about. The
difference between PVE and PVP is where the battle lines are drawn.


Bronzebeard PVE:
Lehi - 60 Human Paladin
Bathsheba - 60 Human Rogue

Frostmane PVP:
Laban - 46 Troll Rogue
Korohor - 24 Undead Warlock
 
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"Babe Bridou" <babebridou@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hum... Life is simpler on a PVP server.
>
> The guy is called Helcular, and he's summoned at the end of a level 34
> chain quest (I think).
>
> He's designed to go fight the alliance in Southshore and summon undead
> guards to assist him.
>
> Having never seen him outside of a PVP server, I can't tell about the
> pvp flag. But he definitely charges into the city by himself. The Horde
> were only taking advantage of this powerful ally.

When I unlocked him, he walked straight into the town, only to get
wasted by the local defense (southsore/tarren mill on a pre-honor system
pvp server = lots of 40+ characters).
I can't see how to exploit him. There's a quest series attached to him,
which means you can't just summon him over and over, and as long as you
don't start to fight him, you shouldn't get flagged. The same as if a
player attacks your city.
If Helcular is able to flag people for PvP, I'd consider it a bug, but
all in all, it's not really something which people can exploit or will
hurt you much.

Chris

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (58) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Lonewalker - Striding Tauren (15) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
 
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Lehi wrote:
> >pvp on pve servers. What you need to do is learn how not to flag.
> >
> And apparently that cannot be done in certain quests. By game design.
> So I stand by my statement that it is what the game is about.

The problem is that this quest isn't an Alliance quest - its a Horde
quest. Alliance characters are being forced into being PvP flagged
because some Horde guy completed a quest - that's just not right IMO.
If it was an Alliance quest that required the questor be flagged for
PvP then there would be no problem as it was by choice - you could not
do the quest if you don't want to do PvP.

steve.kaye
 
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when i did the quest, the guy dies very fast (and me with him)... did
they power him up? on beta server he was overpowered and killed every
guard and player in southshore for a while... but when i was lvl 35 or
so, like i said, he and his summoned undead died very fast (only by
ally guards, not by any ally themself)
im on a PVP server...
 
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Haha, just keep living in that fantasy land!!

In the real world, 54 of the 99 US servers are PvP servers, and in
general they tend to be more crowded (at the moment, 8 of the 9 realms
listed as high population are PvP).

So you're dreaming if you think there are 20000x as many non-PvP
players, in fact there are LESS of them than there are PvP players.

Cheers
>>>
Are you talking about the same game I'm talking? When I play, all but
some 5 or so PvP servers are in 'low', while most PvE are med-high
population. I'll check it out later today when I connect again, it's
an interesting stat I would like to see. Isn't there a site that shows
the status of all servers? like in terms of how many people playing and
all that?
 
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In article <3knl41Fv6i3vU1@individual.net>,
"Adam Russell" <adamrussell@sbcglobal.net.invalid> wrote:

> "wolfing" <wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1122409695.280532.4500@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > no it's not what this game is all about. That's why there are PvP
> > servers and non-PvP servers (in fact, the population of non-PvP vs. PvP
> > is like 20000 to 1). If I choose to play in a non-PvP server is
> > because I *don't* want to attack or be attacked by other players,
>
> That may be why you chose pve server but that is not the normal distinction.
> PVE servers are where you have a *choice* to pvp or not. Thats why they
> have battlegrounds, and pvp enabled npc's, and why you automatically flag
> pvp if you are so bold as to walk into the enemies capital. Lots of people
> pvp on pve servers. What you need to do is learn how not to flag.

I *thought* I knew how the pvp flagging worked on my pve server, but was
tripped up the other night. Our guild was raiding Darnassus, and a few
of us stragglers were trying to catch the boat at Auberdine. Sometime
during the trip from the area just next to the hippogryphs to the docks
we all got flagged... I assume because of running through the inn. I've
never seen it documented anywhere that enemy inns auto-flag you for pvp,
but is this the normal case?

--
Eonar: Hemophage (60), Human warrior Purge (56), Undead mage
Dagobert (34), Human mage Vaik (12), Night Elf rogue
 
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On 27 Jul 2005 03:37:53 -0700, maxnews01@web.de wrote:

>when i did the quest, the guy dies very fast (and me with him)... did
>they power him up? on beta server he was overpowered and killed every
>guard and player in southshore for a while... but when i was lvl 35 or
>so, like i said, he and his summoned undead died very fast (only by
>ally guards, not by any ally themself)
>im on a PVP server...

No. There wasn't anyone there that was over lvl 40 on the alliance
side and it was near impossible to get through to the Horde Players
because of whathisface. Bear in mind that him and his puppets were
killing me basically Instantly at lvl 32. The Hordies that were
utilsing him were both capable of one shotting me. I don't know if he
slaughtered the guards or they did, but I do know that basically they
were using the ability to make the guards run, to lure him and his
minions further out of the Cemetary where they'd then attack people
minding their own business.
It was that I object to, Its not a PvP server and, if your'e not
raiding or defending against a raid, or in enemy territory, the choice
to go PvP should be yours.
 
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wolfing wrote:
> no it's not what this game is all about. That's why there are PvP
> servers and non-PvP servers (in fact, the population of non-PvP vs. PvP
> is like 20000 to 1).

Haha, just keep living in that fantasy land!!

In the real world, 54 of the 99 US servers are PvP servers, and in
general they tend to be more crowded (at the moment, 8 of the 9 realms
listed as high population are PvP).

So you're dreaming if you think there are 20000x as many non-PvP
players, in fact there are LESS of them than there are PvP players.

Cheers!
David...
 
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wolfing
> Haha, just keep living in that fantasy land!!
>
> In the real world, 54 of the 99 US servers are PvP servers, and in
> general they tend to be more crowded (at the moment, 8 of the 9 realms
> listed as high population are PvP).
>
> So you're dreaming if you think there are 20000x as many non-PvP
> players, in fact there are LESS of them than there are PvP players.
>
>>>>
> Are you talking about the same game I'm talking? When I play, all but
> some 5 or so PvP servers are in 'low', while most PvE are med-high
> population. I'll check it out later today when I connect again, it's
> an interesting stat I would like to see. Isn't there a site that shows
> the status of all servers? like in terms of how many people playing and
> all that?

Check out :
http://www.warcraftrealms.com/census.php?minlevel=10

Number of active players:
about 1.4 M on PvP
about 1.2 M on PvE
about 0.2 M on RP

HTH

Hans
 
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wolfing wrote:
> Are you talking about the same game I'm talking? When I play, all but
> some 5 or so PvP servers are in 'low', while most PvE are med-high
> population. I'll check it out later today when I connect again, it's
> an interesting stat I would like to see. Isn't there a site that shows
> the status of all servers? like in terms of how many people playing and
> all that?

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/serverstatus/

Right now there are 11 realms showing high population, and 10 of those
are PvP.

There are 15 showing low, 5 of those are PvP.

Cheers!
David...
 
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hmm... I don't get it.
Right now I'm looking at the servers here is what I see:
High: 2 PvP 0 normal 0 RP
Full: 17 PvP 17 Normal 2 RP
Medium: 9 PvP 21 Normal 7 RP
Low: 22 PvP 4 Normal 0 RP
New: 3 PvP 1 Normal

So, from the low population servers, 22 are PvP and 4 are Normal.
And this happens everytime I play, from the WoW screen and not some
other web page using some add-on.
I have a theory. Are you european? Maybe europeans play more PvP than
americans? I play in EST peak times, like M-F evening and afternoon
Sundays, and I always see a similar statistic.

David Carson wrote:
> wolfing wrote:
> > Are you talking about the same game I'm talking? When I play, all but
> > some 5 or so PvP servers are in 'low', while most PvE are med-high
> > population. I'll check it out later today when I connect again, it's
> > an interesting stat I would like to see. Isn't there a site that shows
> > the status of all servers? like in terms of how many people playing and
> > all that?
>
> http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/serverstatus/
>
> Right now there are 11 realms showing high population, and 10 of those
> are PvP.
>
> There are 15 showing low, 5 of those are PvP.
>
> Cheers!
> David...
 
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Maybe that explains why, just a theory. You're in the same time zone
or similar to the Asian market, and considering the *huge* success that
Diablo/Starcraft has there, I'm inclined to think PvP is more appealing
to them than PvE... quite the contrary here in the US as the difference
in numbers show.
Interesting
 
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wolfing wrote:
> hmm... I don't get it.
> Right now I'm looking at the servers here is what I see:
> High: 2 PvP 0 normal 0 RP
> Full: 17 PvP 17 Normal 2 RP
> Medium: 9 PvP 21 Normal 7 RP
> Low: 22 PvP 4 Normal 0 RP
> New: 3 PvP 1 Normal

Currently:

Full: 1 PvP 0 Normal 0 RP
High: 8 PvP 2 Normal 0 RP
Medium: 34 PvP 32 Normal 7 RP
Low: 8 PvP 8 Normal 0 RP

> So, from the low population servers, 22 are PvP and 4 are Normal.
> And this happens everytime I play, from the WoW screen and not some
> other web page using some add-on.

This is from Blizzard's official server status web page, not "some other
web page using some add-on".

> I have a theory. Are you european? Maybe europeans play more PvP than
> americans? I play in EST peak times, like M-F evening and afternoon
> Sundays, and I always see a similar statistic.

No, Australian.. so yeah, it is quite bizarre that the balance should be
so different at different times of the day.

Cheers!
David...