Guilds - Choice or nessecity?

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Ok, I admit I've posted quite a lot today, (works a little dull).
I noticed a lot of people saying the higher end stuff reqs Guild raids
etc. Does this mean if your'e not in a Guild you'll never be able to
do the higher lvl stuff in game, or would it still be possible to do
stuff but in little groups, like maybe two people?
 

phlip

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"Vertoobli" <motoko@null.com> wrote in message
news:5pqhe1drrmlg6gcf80obp0b4hd1lsofih5@4ax.com...
> Ok, I admit I've posted quite a lot today, (works a little dull).
> I noticed a lot of people saying the higher end stuff reqs Guild raids
> etc. Does this mean if your'e not in a Guild you'll never be able to
> do the higher lvl stuff in game, or would it still be possible to do
> stuff but in little groups, like maybe two people?

Not sure of the 'necessity', but my guild just merged with another to enable
more 10-15 man raids and we're probably merging w/another in hopes of doing
the MC, 40-man raid stuff, which I'm not sure I ever want to be a part of.
40-person anythings sounds like a clusterf*** to me.

Phlip
 
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On ninjalooting: well, people may say that they will not roll on
certain items that you want, if you don't roll on certain items that
they want. But when your item come up, they will roll at the last
possible minute and claimed that they have a slipped of finger.
 
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Join a guild. You can leave if you don't like them. They offer nice
support. You help them, they'll help you. I help lower guildmates on
their quests, the higher ones help me with mine.

And my guild has a number of people at level 50+ now, we're still kind
of small, and they're always talking about merging. We do not like,
however, guilds where members can't help getting DK's when we go raid.

I like my guild because I'm thinking I'll be in the same guild doing
the high-end stuff. (I hope I get there!)

However, regarding the comment about guildless people. On a PvP
server, my Rogue was without a guild for a while. It's nice not having
the "guild flag" flying over your head in contested areas. How can you
spot an enemy a mile away? It's a double red name moving fast. Single
red names ... might be a beast, might be an Orc. Who knows? There's
reasons not to be in a guild. My rogue lost his guild membership
because the guild disbanded. I liked not having the red flag flying
over my head. He's since rejoined the reformed guild. My hunter lost
his guild because he was inactive. I don't blame them for kicking me,
I wasn't contributing. I wasn't though kicked for being a bad player
not fit to party with anyone and I hope nobody would feel that about
me. There are valid reasons for not being in a guild. However, given
my druthers, I'd sooner be in a guild than not.
 
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> High lvl dungeons require 40 people and 40 well drilled ppl at that.
> So, you have no hope in a small group.

The exception being is if you're in a small guild that has alliances
with other small guilds.

I'm in a small guild that works with two other guilds to do regular MC
& Onyxia runs. I also help fill in holes for medium sized guilds that
I'm on good terms with.

Regards,
Noal
 
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At 60 the looting changes quite a bit - greens become mostly worthless
as equipment, and you start going after specific items which often
drop rarely from specific bosses.

For example, Devout Skirt is a blue set item which only drops from
Baron Rivendare in Stratholme - he drops 2 blue items per kill, and
can drop about 18 different ones, so getting the one you want can take
quite some time.
Devout is the priest set, and as such anybody rolling on the fairly
rare Devout Skirt over a priest will be branded as a ninja looter.
>>>
That is why lvl 60 is definitely game over for me. Going to the same
dungeon over and over and over again just for a chance to get a +20 int
hat that will replace my +15 int hat is not for me.
Once I've been once to each dungeon with each character I have it's
game over. I do like going once with each character, since going
through Gnomeregan as a priest is a totally different experience than
going as a warlock or a mage.
 
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> Well, it is certainly possible to solo all the way to 60, so being
> three should hardly hinder you. :)

The biggest problem with that is you don't get to know other people and
their guilds. I developed a lot of my friendships and guild alliances
back when I was in my 40s in February. These days I have no problem
getting in raid instances with an equal chance of getting drops as
anyone else in it. (I don't do runs with guilds that use the DKP
system.)

Regards,
Noal
 
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Vertoobli wrote:
> Ok, I admit I've posted quite a lot today, (works a little dull).
> I noticed a lot of people saying the higher end stuff reqs Guild raids
> etc. Does this mean if your'e not in a Guild you'll never be able to
> do the higher lvl stuff in game, or would it still be possible to do
> stuff but in little groups, like maybe two people?

No.

You need 5 people to do DM.

You need 10 people to do BRD, strat, scholo.

You need 15 people to do UBRS/LBRS.

You need 40 people to do Ox, Az, Kz, MC, BWL.

So to do UBRS you'll need 14 other people.

So either you can join "pick-up" raids or join a guild that does high
level content. A lot of people find being in a guild easier since most
guilds will pre-schedule these events and being a memeber often gives
you priority for a spot. (You can still go on pick-up raids if you're
in a guild though if you're needed on a guild raid and go on a pick-up
raid instead, that could be frowned upon.)
 
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> You need 40 people to do Ox, Az, Kz, MC, BWL.

Correction: BWL is, I believe, a 30 man raid.

Regards,
Noal
 
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>Ok, I admit I've posted quite a lot today, (works a little dull).
>I noticed a lot of people saying the higher end stuff reqs Guild raids
>etc. Does this mean if your'e not in a Guild you'll never be able to
>do the higher lvl stuff in game, or would it still be possible to do
>stuff but in little groups, like maybe two people?

High lvl dungeons require 40 people and 40 well drilled ppl at that.
So, you have no hope in a small group.

You can find pick up group for them but being a guild that does regular
runs makes life easier.
 
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/sigh

to add what BombayMix

nowaday people tend to be leery of high level toon without a guild
affiliation because of ninjalooting.

Hence, they tend to perfer doing raids with guild members.
 
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Nah, I hear people asking for members for the high level instances all
the time in AH. I don't think there will be any problem when I get
there *knocks on wood*
 

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wolfing wrote:
> At 60 the looting changes quite a bit - greens become mostly worthless
> as equipment, and you start going after specific items which often
> drop rarely from specific bosses.
>
> For example, Devout Skirt is a blue set item which only drops from
> Baron Rivendare in Stratholme - he drops 2 blue items per kill, and
> can drop about 18 different ones, so getting the one you want can take
> quite some time.
> Devout is the priest set, and as such anybody rolling on the fairly
> rare Devout Skirt over a priest will be branded as a ninja looter.
>
> That is why lvl 60 is definitely game over for me. Going to the same
> dungeon over and over and over again just for a chance to get a +20 int
> hat that will replace my +15 int hat is not for me.
> Once I've been once to each dungeon with each character I have it's
> game over. I do like going once with each character, since going
> through Gnomeregan as a priest is a totally different experience than
> going as a warlock or a mage.

Level 60 was not game over for me, but it was nearly game over for that
character. I played my 60 mage for a couple of months, but discovered that:

1. the things I disliked about bad parties were both more common and
worse in raids

2. I got bored with the high-level instances after raiding them eight or
ten times, and no imaginable piece of loot was worth enduring those
hours of boredom (especially when I had no patience for the very common
bad features of raids)

PVP kept level 60 interesting for a while, but then I got interested in
PVP on a PVP server (my level 60 is on an RP server), and found that PVP
opportunites were more plentiful and the other players' skills were
generally better on the PVP server, so I started leveling characters there.

At the same time, friends and relatives were getting into the game, so I
created additional characters to play along with them; that remains the
source of a ton of fun. Some of us also created groups of characters
with which to do fun RP things on a few servers, and that remains fun.

Things got somewhat more fun again on the original server after the
release of battlegrounds, but now I have all these other characters on
other servers, so I only spend a little time now and again with my level
60 mage, even though I play at least a little pretty much every day.

Some time between level 25 and level 32, one of my RP rogues went from
pretty fun to hugely fun :), so now my mage on the PVP server is taking
a vacation while a PVP-oriented rogue on that server levels up. :)

As far as guilds go, I have been in several, none of which I thought was
very good. My level 60 mage has never been in a guild, but had no
trouble getting into raids, because of my good friendship with several
people who were in a couple of large, high-level raiding guilds (who, of
course, kept bugging me to join all the time :) ).

From the outside it looks like a good guild can be a big help. I've
just never seen a good guild from the inside (I won't comment on the one
I founded for RP purposes, because it's not my place to say whether it's
good or not :) )
 
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On 28 Jul 2005 08:20:53 -0700, "collection2002" <linch9@gmail.com>
wrote:

>/sigh
>
>to add what BombayMix
>
>nowaday people tend to be leery of high level toon without a guild
>affiliation because of ninjalooting.
>
>Hence, they tend to perfer doing raids with guild members.


I thought it was impossible to steal loot because of the group loot
and stuff?
Anyways. I only group with two other people, so its kind of academic.
:)
 
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Vertoobli wrote:
> On 28 Jul 2005 08:20:53 -0700, "collection2002" <linch9@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>/sigh
>>
>>to add what BombayMix
>>
>>nowaday people tend to be leery of high level toon without a guild
>>affiliation because of ninjalooting.
>>
>>Hence, they tend to perfer doing raids with guild members.
>
>
>
> I thought it was impossible to steal loot because of the group loot
> and stuff?
> Anyways. I only group with two other people, so its kind of academic.
> :)

Well Group Loot is the most dangerous. Say a mage rolls on some mail or
plate item that's bind on pick-up and wins. He'll have a hard time
getting in an instance group.

On the other hand, I'm irritated by some people who yell ninja just
because they lost the roll.

Example, in MC, GiantStalker dropped of an Ancient Core Hound twice. The
first one ( bracers ) went to a member from my guild. The second item (
waist ) was also won by him, but because of the loot rules ( One epic
set item per player ) he passed it to me, since I rolled the second
highest number.

Pretty soon after that a rogue wrote in the raid channel that I was
still wearing my beaststalker belt, and another hunter followed, after
inspecting me.
Really, is there any Hunter who would win the Giantstalker belt and sell
it? I just forgot to equip it because of the fast respawns, but I
equipped it immediately and I was pissed of at these guys for
insinuating something in the chat. What the hell.
 
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On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:29:06 +0100, Vertoobli <motoko@null.com> wrote:

>On 28 Jul 2005 08:20:53 -0700, "collection2002" <linch9@gmail.com>
>wrote:

>>nowaday people tend to be leery of high level toon without a guild
>>affiliation because of ninjalooting.
>>
>>Hence, they tend to perfer doing raids with guild members.
>
>I thought it was impossible to steal loot because of the group loot
>and stuff?

Ninja looting is not hard - just click roll...

At 60 the looting changes quite a bit - greens become mostly worthless
as equipment, and you start going after specific items which often
drop rarely from specific bosses.

For example, Devout Skirt is a blue set item which only drops from
Baron Rivendare in Stratholme - he drops 2 blue items per kill, and
can drop about 18 different ones, so getting the one you want can take
quite some time.
Devout is the priest set, and as such anybody rolling on the fairly
rare Devout Skirt over a priest will be branded as a ninja looter.

>Anyways. I only group with two other people, so its kind of academic.
>:)

Well, it is certainly possible to solo all the way to 60, so being
three should hardly hinder you. :)
In any case, you won't begin raiding until you reach level at least
50, as all instances up to there can be done five man without many
problems - and they should be possible to three man as long as you
gain a few levels on them and play carefully.

You three will, however, not be able to do neither Stratholme,
Scholomance, Blackrock Spire, nor Dire Maul - and Molten Core, Onyxia,
and Blackwing Lair will be completely off limits.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
 
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On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 18:15:29 +0200, Azeus
<IFARTINYOURGENERALDIRECTION@MP.com> wrote:

>On the other hand, I'm irritated by some people who yell ninja just
>because they lost the roll.
>
>Example, in MC, GiantStalker dropped of an Ancient Core Hound twice. The
>first one ( bracers ) went to a member from my guild. The second item (
>waist ) was also won by him, but because of the loot rules ( One epic
>set item per player ) he passed it to me, since I rolled the second
>highest number.
>
>Pretty soon after that a rogue wrote in the raid channel that I was
>still wearing my beaststalker belt, and another hunter followed, after
>inspecting me.
>Really, is there any Hunter who would win the Giantstalker belt and sell
>it? I just forgot to equip it because of the fast respawns, but I
>equipped it immediately and I was pissed of at these guys for
>insinuating something in the chat. What the hell.

Heh, in my guild we use a DKP system (actually we are a few guilds
working together - thus the need for a extra fair system).

One of the hunters in my guild also got a piece of Giantstalker, but
she isn't using it yet - the small upgrade in item is not worth losing
the set bonus over.
Nobody (that I know of) has whined over that...

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
 
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UBRS u can do with 10-12 persons in a good team. i did it with a team
of 13 but i think 1 - 3 less r ok. Most important thing of guilds are:
1st: They help u lvling
2nd: u know each other, so u know: MT1 is better then MT2 so i
concentrate healing on MT2 (a.s.o.)
I would say U CAN NOT do MC / Onyxia / Azu / Kaz / BWL with Pickup
groups. all others u can (and should).
Ninja is not possible in raids (normally) cause its a "Masterlooter"
rule. So everyone that need a item roll near the ML and then he pass
item to u. So if a druid roll on a mail item he won't pass. the only
one that can ninja is the Masterlooter himself... a few days ago i saw
someone selling "Pristine Hide Of The beast" in orgrimmar (for 1400
Gold) and all time others yelled "He ninja'd it". I dont know how...
the only possibility is that he is skinner, skinned beast and ninjat
the hide...
 
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On 28 Jul 2005 13:54:40 -0700, "Noal McDonald" <dharzhak@my-deja.com>
wrote:

>> You need 40 people to do Ox, Az, Kz, MC, BWL.
>
>Correction: BWL is, I believe, a 30 man raid.

No, it is a 40 man raid.

From the 1.6 patch notes:
"Blackwing Lair Released!
Nefarian's sanctum, Blackwing Lair, can be found at the very height of
Blackrock Spire. It is there in the dark recesses of the mountain's
peak that Nefarian has begun to unfold the final stages of his plan to
destroy Ragnaros once and for all and lead his army to undisputed
supremacy over all the races of Azeroth.

Blackwing Lair is a max-level, 40-player raid dungeon,

with many new encounters and tempting rewards awaiting the intrepid
adventurer that dares enter its halls."

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
 
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Vertoobli wrote:
> On 28 Jul 2005 13:15:06 -0700, stush@rocketmail.com wrote:
>
> >You need 5 people to do DM.


> Could I not just do the deadmines at a higher level?

I am guessing that you've connected DM above to Deadmines. DM also
stands for Dire Maul and I think that is what was intended.


> I won't get xp (don't from any elites as they are all a lot lower than
> me when I go for em)
> The loot would still be worth it? or would it depreciate?

It'll get less and less worth your time as you get higher in level. I
think that it isn't worth my time at level 40. I'm currently looking
for a new instance to farm in.


> My other half would be useless as a guildy, she was in Eve, because
> she wouldn't accept anything even like charity. If she hasn't killed
> it at least part way, she doesn't want its drop. This rubs off on me,
> As I play with her and don't want to outstrip her by willingly
> accepting charity off of other chars.

This is a good idea I think - there is a guild forming in Everquest
that has that as its main aim (based on the idea that acepting charity
leads to missed content which is a bad thing)

steve.kaye
 
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maxnews01@web.de wrote:
> I would say U CAN NOT do MC / Onyxia / Azu / Kaz / BWL with Pickup
> groups.

There are regular MC and Onyxia pick up raids on my server. Azu and Kaz
would be kind of tough since guilds would probably beat you too it.
Nobody really getting anywhere in BWL yet except the one uber raid
guild that I know of.
 
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left a note on my windscreen which said:

> You need 10 people to do BRD, strat, scholo.

> You need 15 people to do UBRS/LBRS.

!

Let me guess - alliance?

;o)
--
Stoneskin

My personal army of Sash Crackers on Sunstrider are...

Necrofear - lvl 60 Undead Priest
Relinquished - lvl 21 Undead Warlock
Jericho - lvl 19 Undead Mage
Wartorn - lvl 16 Tauren Warrior
Jigen - lvl 12 Orc Rogue
Squeak - lvl 11 Troll Hunter
Stoneskin - lvl 4 Orc Shaman
Nightmane - lvl 2 Tauren Druid
 
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<stush@rocketmail.com> wrote:

> You need 10 people to do BRD, strat, scholo.

You may need 10 people for BRD if you let the priests tank,
the rogues bandage and the warriors kill. Otherwise, it's
perfectly doable with 5.

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (59) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Lonewalker - Striding Tauren (15) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
 
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On 28 Jul 2005 08:20:53 -0700, "collection2002" <linch9@gmail.com>
wrote:

>/sigh
>
>to add what BombayMix
>
>nowaday people tend to be leery of high level toon without a guild
>affiliation because of ninjalooting.
>
>Hence, they tend to perfer doing raids with guild members.

Sorry, I don't understand how people can "ninja" loot, if its a good
item, don't the dice come up for everyone? You all have to be in the
same party, yes?