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Need help picking motherboard

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August 15, 2012 7:53:19 AM

So since my last post ive decided to go with Intel instead
Of AMD.

Heres how my build looks so far. i am not sure about the mother board though so i come here for advice. I already have everything else just need a MoBo in the $90-100 range since i am on a budget.

CPU: Intel i5 3570k @ 3.4ghz
MoBo: AsRock H77M
Ram: Corsair Vengance 8GB DDR3 1600mhz
Graphics: Sapphire 7850 2gb DDR5
HDD: WD 500 gb 7200 rpm
Dvd drive
PSU: Corsair CX600 600w 80 plus certified.
Case: NZXT Guardian Black

Grand Total: $719.17

Things i dont need in the mother board.
•I will not be overclocking anytime soon
•I will not have SLI or Crossfire
•No more then 8gb of ram.
•Dont need integrated graphics or HDMI

Things i need from the Mother board

•1600mhz ram support (1.5v)
•enough for 2 HHDs and a DVD drive.
•Micro ATX
•Be realiable.

Im ordering the rest of the parts next week so any help is apreciated

More about : picking motherboard

a c 106 B Homebuilt system
a c 81 V Motherboard
August 15, 2012 8:09:32 AM

Rig is pretty good. May I suggest some small changes?

i5-3570k instead of the 2500k. Its the Ivy equivalent and comes with the usual benefits (Bit faster, lower power draw, PCI-3, etc).

Dont get a factory OC'd card. You can do that overclock yourself (or beyond, factory OC's are very conservative) in 5mins and save yourself 10 bucks.

The motherboard that XXAAM picked a fairly good.
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a b B Homebuilt system
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August 15, 2012 8:11:05 AM

If you're not overclocking the CPU, then why get a K edition?

Here is a great motherboard for under $120:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Here's a much cheaper and lower feature, but still great board that fits your specified needs for under $70:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I'd get the Z77 because overclocking support and SLI/CF support, among its other feature advantages, offer far superior future-proofing and expand-ability.
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August 15, 2012 8:14:03 AM

manofchalk said:
Rig is pretty good. May I suggest some small changes?

i5-3570k instead of the 2500k. Its the Ivy equivalent and comes with the usual benefits (Bit faster, lower power draw, PCI-3, etc).

Dont get a factory OC'd card. You can do that overclock yourself (or beyond, factory OC's are very conservative) in 5mins and save yourself 10 bucks.

The motherboard that XXAAM picked a fairly good.


The advantage of many factory overclocked cards is that they often have coolers that are far superior to many non-factory overclocked cards and they can thus be pushed further while being quieter and cooler. They also often have superior binned parts that can be pushed further at a given voltage. There are exceptions on both sides, but this is a general rule.
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August 15, 2012 8:18:04 AM

Thanks for the fast replies guys.

So the 3570k is 20 dollars more then the 2500k. Is the stock performance alot better or is just better for OCing. 20 dollars is nothing of course but im just curious.
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August 15, 2012 8:19:58 AM

blazorthon said:
If you're not overclocking the CPU, then why get a K edition?

Here is a great motherboard for under $120:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Here's a much cheaper and lower feature, but still great board that fits your specified needs for under $70:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I'd get the Z77 because overclocking support and SLI/CF support, among its other feature advantages, offer far superior future-proofing and expand-ability.

He said no overclocking "anytime soon" so it could mean he will overclock when he feels the need.
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August 15, 2012 8:22:30 AM

Chris247 said:
Thanks for the fast replies guys.

So the 3570k is 20 dollars more then the 2500k. Is the stock performance alot better or is just better for OCing. 20 dollars is nothing of course but im just curious.

The Ivy Bridge CPUs are technically faster but they arent as good at OC'ing due to the 22nm die size. It will heat up faster than your cooler can cool it. Unless you use a water/liquid cooler of course. But if you dont plan on OC'ing at all then the 3570 is your better choice over the 2500k
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a c 106 B Homebuilt system
a c 81 V Motherboard
August 15, 2012 8:25:19 AM

The 3570k performs better clock for clock compared to a 2500k, and is .1Ghz higher at stock settings. So it will perform better out of the box, plus all the other benefits of Ivy come with it.

Though you could push it to 3.7Ghz on the stock cooler without issue. I wouldn't go any higher without getting some decent cooling.

Edit. While it is true that due to the smaller transistor size (and of course Intel shoving in more of them because they can), Ivy Bridge does get hotter, faster while overclocking. I personally think this is offset by the fact that each clock is now worth more, and the heat doesn't kick up too much until you start messing with voltage (you can get to 4.2-4.3Ghz without touching voltage by the way). Also with heat issues, a decent cooler will easily fix that. Only problem is if you are using stock, in which case I would only advise only very small (or not at all) overclocks.
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August 15, 2012 8:32:43 AM

So the 3570k is an Ivi Bridge right? Sorry i spent all last week researching AMD only to switch to Intel the last second

If i switch to the 3570k will this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... board that blazorthon posted still be good and also the psu will still be enough aswell?
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August 15, 2012 8:49:04 AM

Yes anything called i# with a number in the 3000's is an Ivy Bridge CPU. And yes the mobo will work with that CPU along with your PSU
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August 15, 2012 8:58:44 AM

Thank you all For your help i updated my first post with the new parts.

Now i just hope i dont get any defective items.
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August 15, 2012 9:18:09 AM

xxaamxx135 said:
The Ivy Bridge CPUs are technically faster but they arent as good at OC'ing due to the 22nm die size. It will heat up faster than your cooler can cool it. Unless you use a water/liquid cooler of course. But if you dont plan on OC'ing at all then the 3570 is your better choice over the 2500k


You're all kinda wrong. Ivy gets hot because it has crap paste between the CPU die and the IHS rather than flux-less solder like Sandy Bridge and many other CPUs had. 22nm does have higher heat density and maybe this hurts a little, but not even nearly enough to not be a superior overclocking chip. This is proven by switching out the paste under the IHS with top-quality paste because Ivy Bridge CPUs can then overclock better than comparable Sandy Bridge CPUs, let alone how well they'd do with flux-less solder. The greater heat density at a given clock frequency and voltage is kinda negated by the higher performance at the same frequency, but both this heat density effect and the increased performance are fairly small.

Also OP, if when you do overclock, you don't overclock by more than 20-25%, then you can get a non-K edition CPU. The non-K edition i5s and i7s can be overclocked by about 20-25%, so K edition CPUs only make sense now if you want to go further than this.
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August 15, 2012 9:44:57 AM

blazorthon said:
You're all kinda wrong. Ivy gets hot because it has crap paste between the CPU die and the IHS rather than flux-less solder like Sandy Bridge and many other CPUs had. 22nm does have higher heat density and maybe this hurts a little, but not even nearly enough to not be a superior overclocking chip. This is proven by switching out the paste under the IHS with top-quality paste because Ivy Bridge CPUs can then overclock better than comparable Sandy Bridge CPUs, let alone how well they'd do with flux-less solder. The greater heat density at a given clock frequency and voltage is kinda negated by the higher performance at the same frequency, but both this heat density effect and the increased performance are fairly small.

Also OP, if when you do overclock, you don't overclock by more than 20-25%, then you can get a non-K edition CPU. The non-K edition i5s and i7s can be overclocked by about 20-25%, so K edition CPUs only make sense now if you want to go further than this.

I was trying to be simple so everyone will understand and the 22nm die size DOES have a pretty big effect on overclocking. I don't think he plans on lapping his CPU IHS to void his warranty. Btw on non-K CPUs you can only overclock the turbo boost to about 4GHz or a tad over that. K series CPUs you can overclock and go well beyong 4GHz
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August 15, 2012 9:56:31 AM

xxaamxx135 said:
I was trying to be simple so everyone will understand and the 22nm die size DOES have a pretty big effect on overclocking. I don't think he plans on lapping his CPU IHS to void his warranty. Btw on non-K CPUs you can only overclock the turbo boost to about 4GHz or a tad over that. K series CPUs you can overclock and go well beyong 4GHz


The 22nm size? What 22nm size? Do you know that the process *size* is not the size of anything, most certainly not the transistors, but only the distance between the transistors? Beyond that, the IB CPUs are better at overclocking than Sandy Bridge CPUs when you replace the crap paste with top-quality paste, so whether it is the architectural improvements and/or the 22nm process technology used in manufacturing them, the IB CPUs are better at overclocking. This is proven even without replacing the paste when used in extreme cooling systems that can push the CPUs to their limits and IB beats SB significantly.

Also, die size is a completely different thing that the lithography. Die size is the size of the die, usually measured in square millimeters.

Yes, it was mostly Turbo that I was referring to with non-K edition CPUs being capable of being overclocked. However, this is only maxes out at a 20% increase over their stock. However, Turbo is not the only way to overclock a non K edition CPU. There is also always the BLCK that can usually hit about 5% over stock (some good mobos can go further) and the i5-2500, i5-3570, i7-2600, and i7-3770 all have partially unlocked multipliers that can go up like four times.

I never said anything about lapping the CPU. I said that IB is proven to be a better overclocker than SB when the paste between the CPU die and the IHS is replaced with higher quality paste. That has nothing to do with lapping nor did I recommend exchanging it because although I know that it is not difficult, it is still time-consuming and tedious to remove and replace the IHS safely.

No offense is intended and I apologize if you get offended, but you're not being very accurate.
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August 15, 2012 10:09:42 AM

blazorthon said:
The 22nm size? What 22nm size? Do you know that the process *size* is not the size of anything, most certainly not the transistors, but only the distance between the transistors? Beyond that, the IB CPUs are better at overclocking than Sandy Bridge CPUs when you replace the crap paste with top-quality paste, so whether it is the architectural improvements and/or the 22nm process technology used in manufacturing them, the IB CPUs are better at overclocking. This is proven even without replacing the paste when used in extreme cooling systems that can push the CPUs to their limits and IB beats SB significantly.

Also, die size is a completely different thing that the lithography. Die size is the size of the die, usually measured in square millimeters.

Yes, it was mostly Turbo that I was referring to with non-K edition CPUs being capable of being overclocked. However, this is only maxes out at a 20% increase over their stock. However, Turbo is not the only way to overclock a non K edition CPU. There is also always the BLCK that can usually hit about 5% over stock (some good mobos can go further) and the i5-2500, i5-3570, i7-2600, and i7-3770 all have partially unlocked multipliers that can go up like four times.

I never said anything about lapping the CPU. I said that IB is proven to be a better overclocker than SB when the paste between the CPU die and the IHS is replaced with higher quality paste. That has nothing to do with lapping nor did I recommend exchanging it because although I know that it is not difficult, it is still time-consuming and tedious to remove and replace the IHS safely.

No offense is intended and I apologize if you get offended, but you're not being very accurate.

When someone says 22nm size it is implied that they are talking about the die. And you're missing the whole entire point. I never said you were wrong. You are mostly correct actually. He is buying a computer and paying for what he gets. Idt he wants to change any paste. And I am not wrong about Ivy Bridge heating up quicker. It's how you look at it from different points of views. To the average consumer, yes the Sandy Bridge CPUs are better overclockers. To enthusiasts such as yourself I assume, Ivy Bridge will definetly be the way to go as long as you know what you're doing. Again, we are both right depending on who's POV you are looking from.
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August 15, 2012 10:19:43 AM

xxaamxx135 said:
When someone says 22nm size it is implied that they are talking about the die. And you're missing the whole entire point. I never said you were wrong. You are mostly correct actually. He is buying a computer and paying for what he gets. Idt he wants to change any paste. And I am not wrong about Ivy Bridge heating up quicker. It's how you look at it from different points of views. To the average consumer, yes the Sandy Bridge CPUs are better overclockers. To enthusiasts such as yourself I assume, Ivy Bridge will definetly be the way to go as long as you know what you're doing. Again, we are both right depending on who's POV you are looking from.


Your POV argument is very good and the only fallacy that I find with it is that it isn't what you said earlier when you tried to state the reason for IB not overclocking as well as, let alone better than, SB un-modded.

When did we say whether or not IB heats up quicker? You said that it overclocks worse because of its lithography. Also, of course it heats up faster with the crap paste. That stuff is almost like an insulator that stops much heat forom getting out, so the heat stays beneath the IHS and temps rise quickly. However, that is the fault of the paste, not the lithography.

Again, die size and die lithography are two entirely different things. Mixing them up can be confusing for people who are talking about the die size when you talk about the lithography. I don't know of anyone whom refers to the lithography as die size because that is incorrect.

Sorry if I seem prudish or whatever, but I try to have great attention to detail when it comes to these things because a simple mistake can have non-simple consequences in some situations, especially when it causes failures of communication that end in misunderstandings.
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August 15, 2012 10:26:34 AM

It overclocks worse because it heats up quicker meaning you get better speeds with Sandy Bridge unmodded. Who wants a hotter CPU? no one, so I said it OC worse using the heat issue as my reason. And it's fine. Little debates like these are what helps others learn!
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August 15, 2012 10:31:31 AM

xxaamxx135 said:
It overclocks worse because it heats up quicker meaning you get better speeds with Sandy Bridge unmodded. Who wants a hotter CPU? no one, so I said it OC worse using the heat issue as my reason. And it's fine. Little debates like these are what helps others learn!


At least with IB, it has better tolerance for heat than SB and can get very nearly as fast as SB in almost all gaming situations.
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August 15, 2012 10:40:55 AM

blazorthon said:
At least with IB, it has better tolerance for heat than SB and can get very nearly as fast as SB in almost all gaming situations.

When OC'd and unmodded, Ivy Bridge run about 20 °C hotter than Sandy Bridge. So for the average consumer/overclocker Sandy Bridge would be the way to go if they dont have money for a good CPU cooler.
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August 15, 2012 10:50:39 AM

The problem is that the cooler, unless it is a phase-change cooler or better, is not helping as much as one might think it it. The heat being generated is less than that of Sandy, it is simply being trapped beneath the IHS. The cooler can't help get heat into the IHS, it can only take heat out from the IHS. Besides, simply getting a Cooler Master Hyper 212 or a similarly cheap but still good cooler should be enough for 4.2-4.4GHz on the K edition IB CPUs. They can even have the fan turned down very low because, again, the heat being generated is considerably lower than that of Sandy, temps are simply high because it is more difficult for the heat to escape the CPU die.

IB also undervolts very well and many IB overclockers forget this. To overclock Ivy, one should bring down the voltage to the minimum stable at stock frequency and then overclock from there rather than stock voltage. That helps with the heat problem, although it doesn't solve it completely.
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August 15, 2012 10:56:45 AM

blazorthon said:
The problem is that the cooler, unless it is a phase-change cooler or better, is not helping as much as one might think it it. The heat being generated is less than that of Sandy, it is simply being trapped beneath the IHS. The cooler can't help get heat into the IHS, it can only take heat out from the IHS. Besides, simply getting a Cooler Master Hyper 212 or a similarly cheap but still good cooler should be enough for 4.2-4.4GHz on the K edition IB CPUs. They can even have the fan turned down very low because, again, the heat being generated is considerably lower than that of Sandy, temps are simply high because it is more difficult for the heat to escape the CPU die.

IB also undervolts very well and many IB overclockers forget this. To overclock Ivy, one should bring down the voltage to the minimum stable at stock frequency and then overclock from there rather than stock voltage. That helps with the heat problem, although it doesn't solve it completely.

Yes I understand the TIM paste issue. But again, average consumer POV. They wont know about the fluxless solder or the TIM paste. I'm trying to keep it simple so the thread starter can buy the CPU without going through this whole thing haha. Plus this is all useless to him because he doesnt plan on OC'ing soon. I still think recommending Sandy Bridge to certain people is good. But for this person, Ivy Bridge. Let's just leave it at that haha
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August 15, 2012 11:46:45 AM

xxaamxx135 said:
Yes I understand the TIM paste issue. But again, average consumer POV. They wont know about the fluxless solder or the TIM paste. I'm trying to keep it simple so the thread starter can buy the CPU without going through this whole thing haha. Plus this is all useless to him because he doesnt plan on OC'ing soon. I still think recommending Sandy Bridge to certain people is good. But for this person, Ivy Bridge. Let's just leave it at that haha


I have to disagree partly with your outlook on this. Average or not, any consumer considering buying something (especially when it is recommended) should be informed about what they are getting into IMO. Even if OP doesn't plan on OCing soon, OP has made it clear simply by choosing a K edition CPU and by saying that he/she doesn't plan on it soon rather than not at all that it might be done later on. I think that it is better to be at least a little prepared to know what to expect for when that time comes.

Heck, even if OP doesn't overclock, I'd still recommend undervolting to save a little electricity and if the CPU is has more performance than can be used, then maybe even underclocking with more undervolting just to not be wasteful. It isn't enough to make a difference in the electricity bill in this case, not even over several years (well, not a significant difference), but if you can not be wasteful and at no cost to you other than a few minutes of your time, then why not?

I'd recommend IB either way at this point because it is close enough to SB in performance when overclocking is considered (and generally wins slightly at stock) and uses less power while not really being much more expensive, if at all more expensive anymore. I stopped recommending SB shortly after IB came out strictly because of IB being close enough and more than making up for the minuscule loss in overclocking performance with the lower power consumption. At worst, IB wouldn't be more than 5-10% slower (if even that) and at best, would be very slightly faster than SB most of the time and pretty much always slightly faster if overclocking isn't done. The higher temps simply means that it can't beat SB overall in overclocking performance reasonably, not that it's going to cause heat related problems unless there is another problem at play.

Ahh well, point is that after all of this, everyone (well, everyone who communicated in this) agrees that IB is the better option for OP regardless of the why.
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August 15, 2012 12:04:40 PM

blazorthon said:
I have to disagree partly with your outlook on this. Average or not, any consumer considering buying something (especially when it is recommended) should be informed about what they are getting into IMO. Even if OP doesn't plan on OCing soon, OP has made it clear simply by choosing a K edition CPU and by saying that he/she doesn't plan on it soon rather than not at all that it might be done later on. I think that it is better to be at least a little prepared to know what to expect for when that time comes.

Heck, even if OP doesn't overclock, I'd still recommend undervolting to save a little electricity and if the CPU is has more performance than can be used, then maybe even underclocking with more undervolting just to not be wasteful. It isn't enough to make a difference in the electricity bill in this case, not even over several years (well, not a significant difference), but if you can not be wasteful and at no cost to you other than a few minutes of your time, then why not?

I'd recommend IB either way at this point because it is close enough to SB in performance when overclocking is considered (and generally wins slightly at stock) and uses less power while not really being much more expensive, if at all more expensive anymore. I stopped recommending SB shortly after IB came out strictly because of IB being close enough and more than making up for the minuscule loss in overclocking performance with the lower power consumption. At worst, IB wouldn't be more than 5-10% slower (if even that) and at best, would be very slightly faster than SB most of the time and pretty much always slightly faster if overclocking isn't done. The higher temps simply means that it can't beat SB overall in overclocking performance reasonably, not that it's going to cause heat related problems unless there is another problem at play.

Ahh well, point is that after all of this, everyone (well, everyone who communicated in this) agrees that IB is the better option for OP regardless of the why.

" The higher temps simply means that it can't beat SB overall in overclocking performance reasonably" I dont go by "close enough", I simply recommend what makes sense price wise and performance wise based on the use of the computer. But yes Ivy for the OP :D 
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