Nerf Shaman

[Guest]

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Yup, yet another 'nerf shaman' post. I'm a Warlock so you know I know
plenty about nerfs. My arsenal consists of direct damage magic, damage
over time magic, and crowd control magic, and curses. All three of
these are quite counterable.

Direct damage magic - Not insta-cast. Counterable by spell interuption
and silence techniques which happen to be available to all classes.
The Shaman gets an extra defense against this in the form of the
unbelievably cheap, absorb-an-infinite-amount-of-magic-until-destroyed,
grounding totem.

Damage over time magic - Insta-cast. Counterable by magic dispel which
is available to Priests, Warlocks, and Paladins. Until destroyed, the
rediculous Shaman grounding totem absorbs an infinite number of these.

Crowd control (Fear) - Counterable by everyone in the game.

Curses - Counterable by Mages and Shaman (Grounding Totem).

Ok, now let's look at the Shaman. That arsenal consists of melee,
shocks, totems, heals.

Melee - Counterable by stuns and kiting. Frost Shock can be used to
avoid the second counter. This means that only those who can stun are
able to really counter this one -- factor in the 5 second cooldown and
this leaves only Rogues.

Shocks - Insta-cast magic. Hardly counterable.

Totems - Insta-cast with and without cooldowns. Counterable by
destroying, but this merely translates totems into stuns that are
insta-cast and very low in mana cost.

Heals - Counterable by spell interruption and silence spells. I'm fine
with this one.

Ok, so there is supposed to be a rock/paper/scissors system. Let's say
that as a Warlock I am paper. From my perspective Shaman, Priests,
Rogues, and Warriors are all scissors.

Let's say the Shaman is scissors. There is no godamn rock! If there
was, then the majority of a Shaman's arsenal would be counterable by
another class.

 

[Guest]

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I play a Shaman.

---

The grounding totem only absorbs one spell. Then it's gone.

Yeah, I'd be the first to grudgingly accept that it ought to be nerfed
if it were infinite, but it's not.

Against casters I hardly use it. Better to shock the caster to
interrupt the spells, then kill it fast (windfury) rather than drop a
totem to catch a single spell. Oh, occasionally I'll drop it, but it
uses the Air Totem and I'd rather give party mates the Windfury Totem.

That's just mob casters. Against PvP casters I try the same, but they
do seem to get more spells through to me.

---

Another thing. "Crowd control (Fear) - Counterable by everyone in the
game."

How is that? By using the trinket for attaining Rank 2 in ones
faction? How many folks is that? Everyone? Hardly. For every Grunt
or better, there's a ton more Scouts.

---


And my Shaman thinks the Three Life Paladin needs to be nerfed.
"Alright already! Die!"

 

[Guest]

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> Yup, yet another 'nerf shaman' post. I'm a Warlock so you know I know
> plenty about nerfs. My arsenal consists of direct damage magic, damage
> over time magic, and crowd control magic, and curses. All three of
> these are quite counterable.
>
> Direct damage magic - Not insta-cast. Counterable by spell interuption
> and silence techniques which happen to be available to all classes.

Shadowburn is instant.

> The Shaman gets an extra defense against this in the form of the
> unbelievably cheap, absorb-an-infinite-amount-of-magic-until-destroyed,
> grounding totem.
>
> Damage over time magic - Insta-cast. Counterable by magic dispel which
> is available to Priests, Warlocks, and Paladins. Until destroyed, the
> rediculous Shaman grounding totem absorbs an infinite number of these.

Wrong, the grounding totem absorbs 1 spell, that's it.

Since the rest of the post is just various versions of 'the grounding totem
absorbs infinite spells...' there's really no need to comment further.

 

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leskaPaul wrote:
> Yup, yet another 'nerf shaman' post. I'm a Warlock so you know I know
> plenty about nerfs.

My warlock has no problem with Shaman.

Nerf players not classes!

 

[Guest]

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I've got a level 60 hunter and I would like to know how I can counter a
fear spell. I have the hunter PvP trinket but it doesn't do it. It
only counters slowing and immobilizing effects, not fear.

 

[Guest]

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"leskaPaul" <leskaPaul@gmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:1123003385.088854.236720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Yup, yet another 'nerf shaman' post. I'm a Warlock so you know I know
> plenty about nerfs. My arsenal consists of direct damage magic, damage
> over time magic, and crowd control magic, and curses. All three of
> these are quite counterable.
>
> Direct damage magic - Not insta-cast. Counterable by spell interuption
> and silence techniques which happen to be available to all classes.
> The Shaman gets an extra defense against this in the form of the
> unbelievably cheap, absorb-an-infinite-amount-of-magic-until-destroyed,
> grounding totem.
>
> Damage over time magic - Insta-cast. Counterable by magic dispel which
> is available to Priests, Warlocks, and Paladins. Until destroyed, the
> rediculous Shaman grounding totem absorbs an infinite number of these.
>
> Crowd control (Fear) - Counterable by everyone in the game.
>
> Curses - Counterable by Mages and Shaman (Grounding Totem).
>
> Ok, now let's look at the Shaman. That arsenal consists of melee,
> shocks, totems, heals.
>
> Melee - Counterable by stuns and kiting. Frost Shock can be used to
> avoid the second counter. This means that only those who can stun are
> able to really counter this one -- factor in the 5 second cooldown and
> this leaves only Rogues.
>
> Shocks - Insta-cast magic. Hardly counterable.
>
> Totems - Insta-cast with and without cooldowns. Counterable by
> destroying, but this merely translates totems into stuns that are
> insta-cast and very low in mana cost.
>
> Heals - Counterable by spell interruption and silence spells. I'm fine
> with this one.
>
> Ok, so there is supposed to be a rock/paper/scissors system. Let's say
> that as a Warlock I am paper. From my perspective Shaman, Priests,
> Rogues, and Warriors are all scissors.
>


Play shaman, priest, rogue or warrior then. Every class has his weakness. So
when u play shaman and u loose against another class, should that class also
be nerfed? and on and on. at the ned of all nerfs we all do the same dmg,
have the same weakness and such,.. what fun is that?

 

[Guest]

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In article <elOHe.160055$Zc7.8689866@phobos.telenet-ops.be>,
"Robin Van Hoof" <robin.van.hoof@telenet.be> wrote:

> Play shaman, priest, rogue or warrior then. Every class has his weakness. So
> when u play shaman and u loose against another class, should that class also
> be nerfed? and on and on. at the ned of all nerfs we all do the same dmg,
> have the same weakness and such,.. what fun is that?

Has there been a lot of nerfing in WoW? I seem to remember a ton of it
in Diablo II, Barbarians and Sorceresses especially (thereby ruining
certain builds and not re-speccable), but it seems to me that Blizzard
is spending at least as much time dealing with balance issues in WoW by
boosting classes (warriors, hunters) rather than nerfing, which is a
good idea IMHO.

Maybe if shamans are too tough in 1 vs 1 pvp (and I think I've seen
this, though usually from the winning faction) then Blizzard could just
give a boosted skill here or there for certain other classes to negate
some aspects of totems or shocks and thereby tilt the balance.

Of course I shouldn't be arguing for an Alliance advantage of any
sort... I'd really like to see some fix for the faction ratio problems
on PVE servers that stick the Horde with a major disadvantage on
economics, questing, and free-for-all town raids.

--
Eonar: Hemophage (60), Human warrior Purge (58), Undead mage
Dagobert (34), Human mage Vaik (12), Night Elf rogue

 

[Guest]

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> Has there been a lot of nerfing in WoW? I seem to remember a ton of it
> in Diablo II, Barbarians and Sorceresses especially (thereby ruining
> certain builds and not re-speccable), but it seems to me that Blizzard
> is spending at least as much time dealing with balance issues in WoW by
> boosting classes (warriors, hunters) rather than nerfing, which is a
> good idea IMHO.

The Warlock has been nerfed from beta so much it isn't funny. The
strange thing is that we were given the concept of soulstones to limit
our considerable power, so we couldn't use our most powerful spells all
the time. In beta it was discovered that Warlocks would grind for so
many soulstones that they would use their most powerful abilities
almost constantly. Since then, our power has been nerfed into oblivion
and we still have our main limitation.

Having said that, I love playing my Warlock. It is a great challenge
and a lot of fun in PvP. If you get it right, you can do quite well.
But there isn't many of us about because a) it is a hard class to play
and b) we are quite underpowered compared to many classes due to having
no real defensive ability, short of pumping 31 points into the
Demonology tree.

 

[Guest]

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Out of interest pudj, what are you specced as? I am currently an
Affliction 'lock but when I get to 50 (currently 41) and get my
Infernal I am considering respeccing to Demonology. From the looks of
the changes it should increase my PvP survivability quite a bit.

 

[Grant]

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

> Wrong, the grounding totem absorbs 1 spell, that's it.
>
> Since the rest of the post is just various versions of 'the grounding totem
> absorbs infinite spells...' there's really no need to comment further.
>
>

Not entirely true...last time I checked it would absorb multiple sheeping
attempts

 

[Guest]

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"leskaPaul" <leskaPaul@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123003385.088854.236720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

LMAO! Stop whining and start learning how to be better at PVP. Shaman do
not get an ability to CC, you do and that's big! Just cause you still don't
know how to defeat shaman does not mean they need to be nerfed for you. Go
and learn your class better that's my advice for you.

 

[Guest]

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"leskaPaul" <leskaPaul@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123003385.088854.236720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Yup, yet another 'nerf shaman' post. I'm a Warlock so you know I know
> plenty about nerfs. My arsenal consists of direct damage magic, damage
> over time magic, and crowd control magic, and curses. All three of
> these are quite counterable.
>
> Direct damage magic - Not insta-cast. Counterable by spell interuption
> and silence techniques which happen to be available to all classes.
> The Shaman gets an extra defense against this in the form of the
> unbelievably cheap, absorb-an-infinite-amount-of-magic-until-destroyed,
> grounding totem.
>
> Damage over time magic - Insta-cast. Counterable by magic dispel which
> is available to Priests, Warlocks, and Paladins. Until destroyed, the
> rediculous Shaman grounding totem absorbs an infinite number of these.
>
> Crowd control (Fear) - Counterable by everyone in the game.
>
> Curses - Counterable by Mages and Shaman (Grounding Totem).
>
> Ok, now let's look at the Shaman. That arsenal consists of melee,
> shocks, totems, heals.
>
> Melee - Counterable by stuns and kiting. Frost Shock can be used to
> avoid the second counter. This means that only those who can stun are
> able to really counter this one -- factor in the 5 second cooldown and
> this leaves only Rogues.
>
> Shocks - Insta-cast magic. Hardly counterable.
>
> Totems - Insta-cast with and without cooldowns. Counterable by
> destroying, but this merely translates totems into stuns that are
> insta-cast and very low in mana cost.
>
> Heals - Counterable by spell interruption and silence spells. I'm fine
> with this one.
>
> Ok, so there is supposed to be a rock/paper/scissors system. Let's say
> that as a Warlock I am paper. From my perspective Shaman, Priests,
> Rogues, and Warriors are all scissors.
>
> Let's say the Shaman is scissors. There is no godamn rock! If there
> was, then the majority of a Shaman's arsenal would be counterable by
> another class.
>

I'm a level 52 warlock and to be honest the only real time I have a major
problem is if a rogue jumps me,then its about 30-70 in there favour unless
they have a counter to fear,then its more like 10-90 in favour of the
rogue.Haveing said that if I am the one that inisuates the fight then the
scales tip my way becuase Im ready for him,ok warlocks have little on the
insta cast side of things and all the instas cost us shards,which we have to
grind for.If we are caught without our summon and no shards we are toast
against any class,my biggest gripe is that shards dont stack,I have to carry
2 full bags of shards which is silly.It is all about learning how to
overcome the hurdles,but one thing I agree with is that if they can get over
fear we are in trouble that is the only way we can put distance between us
and our enemy,wearing cloth is not fun but challanging.

 

[Guest]

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"Brad Sprigg" <bsprigg@pecol.com.au> wrote in message
news:1123035785.576604.88820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Out of interest pudj, what are you specced as? I am currently an
> Affliction 'lock but when I get to 50 (currently 41) and get my
> Infernal I am considering respeccing to Demonology. From the looks of
> the changes it should increase my PvP survivability quite a bit.
>
deomonolagy/destruction

 

[Guest]

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leskaPaul wrote:
> Yup, yet another 'nerf shaman' post..

OK, let get all the "yet another" replies in one place then: cry more
n00b, learn to play your class, reroll PvE, etc. etc.

Cheers!
David...

 

[Rastus]

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

> Let's say the Shaman is scissors. There is no godamn rock! If there
> was, then the majority of a Shaman's arsenal would be counterable by
> another class.

Shamans are only powerful because they can outmellee caster and outcast
mellee.

A shaman who tries to outmellee a mellee class or outcast a caster will have
their asses handed to them. It all depends on the skill of the shaman and
the skill of the opponent in getting the fight on their terms.

They are jack of all trade, master of none. This means they have no obvious
weakness, but no obvious strength beyond flexibility. They were specifically
designed this way.

 

[Guest]

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Rastus ytrede sig i <dcprgb$1v98$1@bunyip2.cc.uq.edu.au> med dette:

>> Let's say the Shaman is scissors. There is no godamn rock! If there
>> was, then the majority of a Shaman's arsenal would be counterable by
>> another class.
>
>Shamans are only powerful because they can outmellee caster and outcast
>mellee.
>
>A shaman who tries to outmellee a mellee class or outcast a caster will have
>their asses handed to them. It all depends on the skill of the shaman and
>the skill of the opponent in getting the fight on their terms.
>
>They are jack of all trade, master of none. This means they have no obvious
>weakness, but no obvious strength beyond flexibility. They were specifically
>designed this way.

When looking at the end-game armour set shammies can get, it's a bit
funny, cause it seems like Blizz only wants two kinds of builds
(ele/rest or rest/ele). I usually like to call it a way of nerfing the
class in the end-game.
--
Allan Stig Kiilerich Frederiksen
"When you try to change a mans paradigm, you must keep in mind that he
can hear you only through the filter of the paradigm he holds."
-Myron Tribus

 

[Guest]

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> Shadowburn is instant.

Yes...your point?

> Wrong, the grounding totem absorbs 1 spell, that's it.

Wrong. Since patch 1.6 the grounding totem absorbs all non-DD spells
until it is destroyed. Go and try it.

 

[Guest]

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>Another thing. "Crowd control (Fear) - Counterable by everyone in the
>game."

>How is that? By using the trinket for attaining Rank 2 in ones
>faction? How many folks is that? Everyone? Hardly. For every Grunt
>or better, there's a ton more Scouts.

99% of players who are Scouts have not been level 60 for a week. I'm
not worried about fighting a leve 59 or below player. I'm talking
end-game characters and ideal senarios.
Talk to any Warlock or Priest who has been level 60 for more than a
week and they will tell you just how unreliable Fear has become.

That said, a 60 Shammy can counter the hell out of Fear. This is how
it goes for me when I battle a good 60 Shammy...

....
I start casting Fear.
I interrupt my own Fear.
Shammy casts Earth Shock... (yay!)
I start casting Fear again...
Shammy drops Tremor Totem.
Fear lands, but I'm not able to get to the Tremor Totem for another
second.
All that effort to land a Fear and I don't even get a spell off.

Not to mention that DOT ticks cause Lightning Shield to proc...one DOT
tick of 90 causes me to get hit for 200? No problem, I'll just dispel
Lightning Shield with my Felhunter's 8 second cooldown Devour Magic.
What's that? The Shammy can just cast Lightning Shield again?
Great...

I enjoy a challenge, and don't mind my class being countered by another
class. I just don't think it is cool that a Shammy has no countering
class...everyone else seems to.

 

[Guest]

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Use your combat log, or go pick up a mod like Spell Alert. Basically,
use your Scatter Shot (or whatever interrupting ability you have) when
you see a Warlock casting Fear. Your combat log will say "Warlock
starts casting Fear..." and it is a 1.5 second cast -- plenty of time
to be countered.

This is the equivalent of the only real counter a Warlock has against a
Shammy. I have to see a Heal begin to cast (of course, if it is an NS
heal I can't do squat) and then spell lock. Thanks to the patch 1.6
change to the Grounding Totem I'm forced to use my Imp and so this
counter is no longer available to me.