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NTFS faster than FAT32 in WinXP OS ?

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January 13, 2002 6:20:23 PM

Hi All,

im not talking about clusters size or NTFS security add-ons, it's just a global question about performances between those 2 file systems.

What, as your opinion, is the faster one in WinXP OS ?


thanks for all opinions about.



if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy.
January 14, 2002 8:59:54 PM

Are you sure ?

from the Anandtech FAQ:
<blockquote><font size=1>En réponse à:</font><hr><p>All of the above does have its impact on performance though, and it is recommended that you disable any features that are not needed if you use NTFS.<p><hr></blockquote><p>
What do you think about ?


if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy.
Related resources
January 15, 2002 3:46:12 AM

What it's getting at is that some of the features impact it's performance. But, they can still be disabled. If you read the whole article, I think the pros outweigh the cons for NTFS (unless you need it for a dual-boot).

I especially like this part, that's five paragraphs up from where you've quoted:
"As drive sizes and the sheer number of files on a partition increases, NTFS's performance does not degrade. On partitions or directories with several thousands of files, FAT32 operations slow to a crawl."

But, I'm not gonna decide for you.

<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/btvillarin" target="_new">My Website</A> - updated basically everyday.
Anonymous
a b 8 Security
January 23, 2002 5:38:30 AM

NTFS is SLOW
Because it must check that someone own this file
January 23, 2002 8:24:44 AM

""On partitions or directories with several thousands of files, FAT32 operations slow to a crawl.""

I would like to know what size of the partition or directory they were testing, coz I have FAT32 25 Gig partition with 22 of them gone for the incredible variety of files (one directory has more than 4 Gigs), and I see no difference in performance in none of the OSs I use with that partition. WinME even seams to work with it snappier than Win2k or XP, but that is only my feeling.


..this is very useful and helpful place for information...
January 23, 2002 11:32:36 AM

Doesn't XP have some kind of restriction on drive size if you use FAT32 ?
something like you cant have more than 32 GB ?!?!


Trying is the first step to failure
January 23, 2002 1:29:12 PM

I'm not exactly sure. All I know that I'd rather have efficiency than performance. And for me, Windows XP is snappy enough. That FAQ is informative, I think, so it should assist you in deciding whether or not NTFS is right for you.

(I'm not sure if they're testing files on the primary OS partition, or another partition just for data...)

<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/btvillarin" target="_new">My Website</A>-<b>reorganized</b> & updated everyday
January 23, 2002 5:57:57 PM

This <A HREF="http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev/tech/storage/ntfs-preins..." target="_new">page</A> also has a lot of useful information on the subject.

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</font color=green></A>
____________________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
January 23, 2002 11:41:09 PM

Another link to add to my site/favorites... :smile:
(Thanks to the great Toey)

<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/btvillarin" target="_new">My Website</A>-<b>reorganized</b> & updated everyday
January 24, 2002 12:10:44 AM

Always glad to be of service, buddy!

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</font color=green></A>
____________________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
February 12, 2002 2:53:01 AM

i convert fat32 to ntfs for my 40Go hd & now my system work slowly !!

thanks for your advice !


if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy.
February 12, 2002 3:18:59 AM

ok. i didn't know so i tried it.

i have converted my fat32 to ntfs for my 40Go hd

& now my XP system work slowly.

but i can't reverse the process
(ok, i know... you can laugh a bit :) 

i had a little doubt because of the cluster size difference between the 2 fs (4K/ntfs vs 32K/fat32) but now it's clear !

so my advice is:

don't swap fat32 to ntfs if you don't need it !

very simple advice in fact but you have to test it before.

note:
& whatever microsoft can say about because we have to recognize propaganda.


if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy.
February 12, 2002 3:24:05 AM

it's true but just a part of the explanation

don't forget the clusters size difference between the 2 fs
4K vs 32K


if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy.
February 12, 2002 3:39:11 AM

Where have you been?

Partition Magic 7.0 can convert back to fat32.

º :smile: º <font color=blue>You get what you pay for. :smile: All advice here is free.</font color=blue> :wink:
February 12, 2002 3:58:12 AM

i don't have it & i don't want to pay for that.

can you send me a copy ?

thanks.


if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy.
February 12, 2002 4:02:18 AM

You do know that 32k clusters wastes a ton of space right? I've really noticed no big increase or decrease in speed between the two systems.

And yea i'm pretty sure the max partition size for fat32 is 32gb and nfts is like in the Terabytes somewhere hehe.

...
February 12, 2002 4:57:19 AM

32GB is not the maximum size for a FAT32 partition. But it <i>is</i> the maximum size that a Win2K or a WinXP CD can make on a clean hard disk if you choose the file system during the OS installation.

FAT32 supports volumes up to two terabytes in size. NTFS supports volumes up to sixteen <i>exabytes</i> in size.

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</font color=green></A>
<font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
____________________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
February 12, 2002 9:06:11 PM

Sorry i think i'm just mixing up chs, echs, lba with file systems hehe. But maybe you could elaborate more on the win2k/xp 32gig max for me, and by clean hard disk you mean first time it's been used or freshly formatted?

...
February 12, 2002 9:24:23 PM

In my personal testing, I have found NTFS to be slightly slower than FAT32. However, it is more efficient and is less susceptible to errors. As far as I can tell, the WinXP chkdsk error I reported is merely a flaw in the checking process of WinXP but will not corrupt any files or damage any data.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
February 13, 2002 12:46:57 AM

Check out this <A HREF="http://www.win2000mag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=..." target="_new">article</A>, and look under the section,"FAT32 Foibles". That should explain it, and save me some typing! :smile:

By clean hard disk, I mean ... not partitioned, which also implies not formatted. It doesn't matter if the disk has been used previously. For all intents and purposes, a hard drive with no partitions or files systems is clean. You won't see anything on the disk from DOS or an operating system CD, anyway.

(Let's <i>not</i> talk about data recovery and start splitting hairs here, guys. You know what I mean! LOL!)

Toejam31

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</font color=green></A>
<font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
____________________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
February 13, 2002 1:16:53 AM

Ok that'll explain that to me, so much technology to keep up with hehe. I figured FAT32's size limitation would be somewhere in this universe like FAT16 (2GB? at 64k clusters). But i guess things do progress exponentially around here...

...
February 13, 2002 1:29:19 AM

Interesting enough, to make it even <i>more</i> confusing ... the 2GB FAT16 limitation is not the same in Windows 2000. It's 4GB in Win2K ... but 2GB when using FDISK in DOS. It just depends on which disk management utility is doing the partitioning. Most people don't notice this kind of thing unless you like to multi-boot with different operating systems.

It's enough to make your head hurt, huh? Join the crowd. :wink:

Toey

<font color=red>My Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Tantalizing Tantric Toy</font color=green></A>
<font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
____________________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."</font color=purple>
February 13, 2002 4:12:44 AM

Let's just come up with a FS that supports a googaplex and be done with it.

...
February 13, 2002 4:18:14 AM

Please do. I will buy it.

º :smile: º <font color=blue>You get what you pay for. :smile: All advice here is free.</font color=blue> :wink:
February 13, 2002 7:05:14 PM

With the exception of ToeJam there are a lot of misinformed folks in this thread...and giving advice out too!

I'm not going to spend too much time on this because I get kinda sick of explaining it but here's a few gems for ya...

Yes, 32K cluster size waste's more space than 4K cluster sizes. At current hard drive prices don't lose any sleep over this.

On an empty disk, FAT is faster. In just about any other situation NTFS is faster. FAT puts it's allocation tables near the edge of the disk. As you fill the disk and move towards the center the head must spend more time going back and forth from the center to the edge to write data and then update the FAT tables. NTFS holds it's "FAT" tables (note the quotes) about halfway from edge to center.

You won't take a performance hit in NTFS from accessing the ACL's (Access control lists...holds file permissions).

NTFS is almost immune to errors cause by crashes and improper shutdowns. It logs when a transaction has started and then again when it completes. If your computer boots and a transaction shows as started but not finished, the crap data is discarded and you get a chkdsk run. FAT will piss all over itself if the same thing happens.

You can go well beyond 32mb with a FAT disk in w2k and xp...you just can't FORMAT one that big. If you want a 80gig FAT drive you'll have to use DOS Fdisk and Format to get the job done. FAT start's getting [-peep-] efficiency as the drive gets bigger so why you would do this is beyond me.

Now for the short answer:
If you want compatibility with another dual boot operating system like Windows 98 (eww...puke) then use FAT. For ANY other reason use NTFS. Don't try using the excuse that you can't access your files in an emergency either. You CAN get to a command prompt in NTFS.
February 13, 2002 7:52:49 PM

Quote:

[-peep-]

Quote:

(eww...puke)

Do we really need these comments? It bothers me because it's comments like these that start flaming and bashing and trolling.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
February 13, 2002 8:29:07 PM

I wonder how you came up with smilin as a nick...

...
February 14, 2002 7:36:18 AM

It's <i>your</i> sarcastic comments that no one needs. I've read many of your posts, and baiting trolls appears to be your favorite hobby.

I'm sure that you'll be a sour adult one day if you keep on with this kind of attitude.

Grow up, and stop playing at being the forum moderator. Children shouldn't lecture adults on their comments <i>or</i> their behavior. You haven't lived long enough to know what is and isn't an acceptable conversation between people over the age of eighteen. Which you won't see for three more years.

No grown person is going to pay much attention to the disciplinary musings of a high school freshman who still needs an adult in the passenger seat in order to drive to a local convenience store.

Post something of merit that actually helps someone, for once, if possible. Or put a sock in it.

On a personal note, I doubt that anyone here cares one whit about what <i>bothers</i> you. If you don't like the content of a post, go somewhere else.

<i>Now returning to your regularly scheduled programming ..</i>

Chamra
February 14, 2002 10:24:46 AM

Quote:

It's your sarcastic comments that no one needs. I've read many of your posts, and baiting trolls appears to be your favorite hobby.

I was not being sarcastic.

Quote:

Grow up, and stop playing at being the forum moderator. Children shouldn't lecture adults on their comments or their behavior. You haven't lived long enough to know what is and isn't an acceptable conversation between people over the age of eighteen. Which you won't see for three more years.

Once again society underestimates the ablities of the young. My age has been a limiting factor in a number of things and I find that to be society's weakness. What makes a supposed adult assume all children immature and undisciplined? Stereotyping! I'm not your average teenager. I want help to end trolling and yet, you insult me? Had I revealed my age to be, say, 40, you would've not posted this.

For your information, I post dozens of helpful posts a day. I help others make informed decision on major PC component purchases, I help them fix problems, and I add a good joke or laugh every once in a while to lighten the mood.



AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
February 14, 2002 3:41:41 PM

I find anything in the windows 9x line to be pretty crappy. I'll express my opinion on this freely.

As for me saying [-peep-] ... That's just the way it is. The [-peep-] is already filtered, so if seeing peep instead of [-peep-] isn't enough for you...just [-peep-] off. :) 

Don't tell me what starts flaming and trolling around here I KNOW what starts flaming a trolling around here. Here's an example of what people will argue over:

I say that 2+2=4!!!!

just watch...people will bust into an arugment over this and somehow and AMD vs Intel or nVidia vs ATI argument will ensue.

I try to be helpful when I can but I'm honestly not going to censor myself. I hope you understand.


Thanks! (and the both of you stop arguing please)
February 14, 2002 3:42:34 PM

Sarcasm isn't a trait I'd relate to children.

I've seen many grown adults, some older than I, behave a lot worse than AMD_Man (not that he necessarily behaves badly). He is a knowledgeable and respected poster in this forum. Seeing that you are new here, it is you that needs the attitude adjustment. You don't come here and flame one of the regulars in your very first post. You need to learn etiquette.

With that being said, I am 29 years old. How old are you sir? Old enough to know better, I'm willing to wager. Everyone needs to be respected, regardless of their age. Your type of attitude will attract much more trolls than AMD_Man's.

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
February 14, 2002 4:54:41 PM

I am 54 years old. And I believe that is old enough to have a certain amount of perspective on how the world works, something a teenager cannot fathom. A sense of mortality, and the definition of wisdom cannot be gained until one reaches the other side of the coin.

Sarcasm is perhaps the only trait I can equate with a defensive child who's biggest concern is puberty, an Introduction To Algebra test, and whether he can sneak into an R-rated movie.

Children should respect their elders, and until old enough to be accountable for their actions, and responsible for their personal survival, I believe to have little in the way of valid opinions or social skills -- certainly not enough to correct the behavior of an adult, whether in person, or in a public arena.

My online etiquette is just fine, thank you. I feel that I have expressed my feelings on the subject succinctly, and without resorting to cursing.

Having said this, I will resist any further attempts at arguing with the young man. I do not wish to appear boorish. But my comments stand.

Chamra
February 14, 2002 5:19:38 PM

Let me see if I understand your meaning. Basically you are saying that if an adult is misbehaving and someone who is not an adult calls him / her on it, that their opinion is automatically invalid? Just because they are a child? No, that is NOT acceptable. You are correct in saying that a teen does not neccesarily have all the important social skills; but that does not mean their opinion is invalid.

If he is knowledgeable, then his opinion DOES matter. One does not need to be a man of your years to correct another's error. I respect your opinion and your right to voice it, however, I cannot agree that AMD_Man should not be respected. I think he's more than proved himself as someone who has knowledge of computers and that makes his opinions valid in this forum.

Your cynicism where the young are concerned is very apparent. Not all young people fall into the category you assign them to. You are correct in saying that teenagers don't know everything; but that does not mean they know nothing.

Your etiquette is lacking; yes you expressed your feelings eloquently and without cursing, however your first post was a negative one towards a respected regular poster. I don't know AMD_Man personally, but I have read enough of his posts to realize he knows what he's talking about. That isn't to say that he won't be called on his behavior when he does act up however. ;-)

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
February 14, 2002 5:43:12 PM

Lapdog, you said that you CONVERTED to NTFS? In that case you will not get the full performence of NTFS. It states in teh help docs in Windows that a conversion will not give any of the performece increases of NTFS, it is just for compatibilty. That may explain your slow-down, unless you did a format as well.
February 14, 2002 6:34:28 PM

We're speaking in generalities, and there are exceptions for every occasion. But in this instance, the person in question was not voicing an opinion on a technical aspect of computing, but attempting to assume the role of forum moderator. That has nothing to do with his evident knowledge of computer systems.

Some things must be earned, and among them is the right to correct the behavior of an reasoning adult. That is part of the privileges accorded to mature individuals ... and part of the reason that the country is not run by children. It is distressing enough that the elderly are held in contempt by younger generations, and that our society is biased toward the youthful, beautiful and sexy, as if experience and wisdom are characteristics to be ignored -- even reviled. Hence the saddening indoctrination in our youth away from wrinkles, baldness, and other conditions of the aged -- as if the onset of advancing years also brings about that one's mental capacity is also severely diminished with each gray hair.

I believe that I should have many more years of mental agility if I strive to keep my mind active and open to new possibilities.

AMD_Man may be a regular poster, but I cannot accept that the entire community must hold him in an attitude of respect after perusing many of his posts, simply because you have taken on the role of advocate.

My comments were specific. This individual is not the forum moderator, and as such, should not assume that function on a whim, no matter how many hundreds of posts he has made. Being prolific with a computer keyboard is not a valid measure of the quality of his comments. And regardless of his supposed technical knowledge, he has not yet (by the definition of his age) earned the right in society to hold anyone else accountable for their opinions or attitudes, including himself. This is the reason that he cannot yet vote; nor would he in fact face trial as an adult unless having committed cold-blooded murder.

I am not cynical towards young people. But I do understand and recall what it means and feels like to be a juvenile, and why they are referred to in this manner. It takes a certain amount of time on this earth to comprehend different aspects of civilization, and what it means to be a well-adjusted and beneficial member of society. Children are not born inherently wise or civilized -- they must be taught.

Again -- this is a matter of perspective. And no matter how intelligent or precocious, no young person can comprehend the rules that life teaches us, simply from living through the years, and having survived and dealt with encroaching time.

That is my opinion. I'm entitled to it, just as you are entitled to yours. You've earned that right -- you are not a child. AMD_Man is a fifteen-year old boy, and should be accorded the respect earned by his actions. His knowledge of an ATI card or a hard disk does not justify that respect, in my opinion, when attempting to correct the behavior and comments of an older individual.

As you can see -- we are at a stalemate, and simply must agree to disagree. Perhaps we can now move on to more palatable subjects, as previously suggested, good sir?

Chamra
February 14, 2002 6:54:22 PM

This is, while a tired and true method of treatment for previous centuries, may not apply to the twenty-first century. Today, there are people my age have more technical knowledge than an adult with over a dozen years of experience. The Internet, in my opinion, has broke the barrier of knowledge and, in time, will allow anyone to do anything regardless of age. The Internet brings us the entire collective knowledge of humans to this day. If a fifteen-year old like myself is willing to learn, he or she can. I am an amauteur programmer, for exmaple. Granted, with time comes wisdom, but NO ONE has complete wisdom or knowledge and so even a fifteen year old can complement the knowledge/wisdom of an adult. We live not to disregard the young to satisfy our ego, but to share knowledge, understanding and wisdom and to learn.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
February 14, 2002 6:58:51 PM

You know, Smilin, the [-peep-] part is ok if you're sure that people won't take it the wrong way, but any swearing with AMDMeltdown or Intel_inside can only worsen an already tense situation.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
February 15, 2002 8:27:31 AM

another teh ?


if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy.
February 15, 2002 8:30:14 AM

agreed.


if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy.
February 15, 2002 8:32:22 AM

hey, already nimble knuckle, you impressed me.


if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy.
February 15, 2002 8:42:35 AM

try philosophy :) 


if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy.
February 15, 2002 8:44:08 AM

try another forum :) 


if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy.
February 15, 2002 8:56:49 AM

CHILD:

(obsolete) 2-byte integer (signed) Application component Business event.
catalog exists for business event type Child node ID (hierarchy) Define sorting, Node type Object ID, .... RFC Access key hierarchies ... UUID in character form ...


if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy.
February 15, 2002 9:15:02 AM

(sic) performence


if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy.
February 15, 2002 9:15:55 AM

(sic) performece


if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy.
February 15, 2002 9:17:41 AM

i did 4 or 5 "defrag" :) 


if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy.
February 15, 2002 9:20:53 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>En réponse à:</font><hr><p>help docs in Windows<p><hr></blockquote><p>try another information sources. :) 


if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy.
February 15, 2002 9:27:27 AM

do you know the "convert" command [/cvtarea:filename] option ?


if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy.
February 15, 2002 12:15:59 PM

To satisfy your curiosity:

I'm always smilin

That's how :) 
!