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40 players vs Magmadar = 40 crunched corpses

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Anonymous
August 11, 2005 5:42:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

So... anyone have tactics to share for taking down this malevolent pooch?

About six times in a 90 minute period, my guild got wiped by him and we
gave up. Lots of warriors, priests, shamans, rogues, hunters, mages,
warlocks, no one below lvl 60... lots of good healing, disciplined dps,
near total use of ct-raidassist, many ppl on teamspeak as well, one
hunter with tranq shot... but no luck. I think we got him down to half
health one time, and that felt like a near victory, but the wipe was
inevitable.

I'm not sure why the main tanks wound up getting killed within a few
minutes. I suspect the Fear caused the warriors to lose aggro, the
healers to gain and it get squashed, then the warriors fell soon after
without healing support. I was assured that they were using berserker
stance to combat the fear, but apparently it wasn't enough. Even using
Will of the Forsaken and then the pvp trinket was of limited use when he
fears every 20 secs or so and those antidotes are on cooldown.

I'm eager to hear how others have made this work (Horde-side would be
nice -- comments about the supremacy of dorf priests won't be that
helpful. :p  )

--
Eonar: Hemophage (60), Human warrior Purge (60), Undead mage
Dagobert (34), Human mage Vaik (12), Night Elf rogue
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 7:31:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

hmm.. there should be a few mistakes u make / made.
1st: get CT_Raidassist (all) so u get warned from fear. then all range
attacker / healer can stand outside fear area.
2nd: 3 heal groups (1 healer of each class: i.e. priest/druid/shaman)
after no mana or much healing in one group, next group heals MainTank.
like this the healer dont get much aggro. (important that healing
groups dont heal while they dont heal the MT)
3rd: Bandage: rogues / mages etc should bandage themself (and getting
healed by other healer that r not in heal groups)
4th: let the MT time to get / hold aggro... after a few % of magmas
health all DPS classes start attacking, then, after another few % they
stop (so MT can get aggro again) then they restart attacking a.s.o.
5th: concentrate on MT. he must survive... its nearly a wipe when he
dies. what i dont get is, why ur MT looses aggro. i think our MT does
not... is there something u can do against fear?!? perhaps a warrior
ability that u can turn on when u know "fear" is "comin"?
6th: perhaps ur not equipped right?!? i mean all should have their blue
set nearly complete or at least equip that nearly is as good as the
blue one...
7th: wrong ppl with u? u should have a maximum of 8 priests, 8 shaman,
8 rogues, 3 locks, 5 druids a.s.o... i think we normally go with a
total of 8-11 healer (i.e. Priests and Druids), 3-6 warrior, 2-3
warlocks, 5-8 mages, 4-8 shaman, rest rogues (maximum 8) to MC... with
this raid we killed all beside Ragnaros ;-(
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 4:42:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 01:42:10 -0600, chocolatemalt
<chocolatemalt@dim=dot=com.invalid> wrote:

>So... anyone have tactics to share for taking down this malevolent pooch?
>
>About six times in a 90 minute period, my guild got wiped by him and we
>gave up. Lots of warriors, priests, shamans, rogues, hunters, mages,
>warlocks, no one below lvl 60... lots of good healing, disciplined dps,
>near total use of ct-raidassist, many ppl on teamspeak as well, one
>hunter with tranq shot... but no luck. I think we got him down to half
>health one time, and that felt like a near victory, but the wipe was
>inevitable.
>
>I'm not sure why the main tanks wound up getting killed within a few
>minutes. I suspect the Fear caused the warriors to lose aggro, the
>healers to gain and it get squashed, then the warriors fell soon after
>without healing support. I was assured that they were using berserker
>stance to combat the fear, but apparently it wasn't enough. Even using
>Will of the Forsaken and then the pvp trinket was of limited use when he
>fears every 20 secs or so and those antidotes are on cooldown.
>
>I'm eager to hear how others have made this work (Horde-side would be
>nice -- comments about the supremacy of dorf priests won't be that
>helpful. :p  )

Kill Lucifron 1-2 times more - Magmadar is a lot harder with only one
Tranq shot (but doable).
Keep all ranged people at max range to avoid fear as much as possible.
Try to spread out so - letting one fire spit hit an entire group of
people hurts the raid.
Practice more with timing the Berserker Rage - if done perfectly the
warrior will never get feared even once (Im not a warrior though, so I
don't know how hard it is) - getting an addon which times the fear and
broadcasts a warning helps here.

Dunno how helpfull that was...
But fear not: He gets easier the more you try and before you know it
you will be taking him down without any deaths at all :) 

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
Related resources
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 6:35:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

In article <98amf1pt2o7og28t3fh76mrb5s288e61ue@4ax.com>,
Simon Nejmann <snejmann@worldonline.dk> wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 01:42:10 -0600, chocolatemalt
> <chocolatemalt@dim=dot=com.invalid> wrote:
>
> >So... anyone have tactics to share for taking down this malevolent pooch?
> >
> >About six times in a 90 minute period, my guild got wiped by him and we
> >gave up. Lots of warriors, priests, shamans, rogues, hunters, mages,
> >warlocks, no one below lvl 60... lots of good healing, disciplined dps,
> >near total use of ct-raidassist, many ppl on teamspeak as well, one
> >hunter with tranq shot... but no luck. I think we got him down to half
> >health one time, and that felt like a near victory, but the wipe was
> >inevitable.
> >
> >I'm not sure why the main tanks wound up getting killed within a few
> >minutes. I suspect the Fear caused the warriors to lose aggro, the
> >healers to gain and it get squashed, then the warriors fell soon after
> >without healing support. I was assured that they were using berserker
> >stance to combat the fear, but apparently it wasn't enough. Even using
> >Will of the Forsaken and then the pvp trinket was of limited use when he
> >fears every 20 secs or so and those antidotes are on cooldown.
> >
> >I'm eager to hear how others have made this work (Horde-side would be
> >nice -- comments about the supremacy of dorf priests won't be that
> >helpful. :p  )
>
> Kill Lucifron 1-2 times more - Magmadar is a lot harder with only one
> Tranq shot (but doable).
> Keep all ranged people at max range to avoid fear as much as possible.
> Try to spread out so - letting one fire spit hit an entire group of
> people hurts the raid.
> Practice more with timing the Berserker Rage - if done perfectly the
> warrior will never get feared even once (Im not a warrior though, so I
> don't know how hard it is) - getting an addon which times the fear and
> broadcasts a warning helps here.

My guild killed Luci beforehand so I never saw him/her. The instance
will reset before the weekend however.

We did keep all ranged attackers at max range to lessen fear effects,
and spitballs usually hit just one person, so we did a good job of
spreading out. Most folks had to feel out and plan their ranges
though... I was surprised to find that I was nearly the only one using
RangeRecolor, an awesome add-on imho.

I think the problem with Berserker Rage and Dispel Magic (from priests)
is the cooldowns... the Fears were coming about every 30 seconds, so
maybe this just comes down to a numbers game. The warrior can use his
BR and the pvp trinket and Will of the Forsaken (our MT is undead), but
then needs priests to cover the cooldown gaps for subsequent Fears.

> Dunno how helpfull that was...
> But fear not: He gets easier the more you try and before you know it
> you will be taking him down without any deaths at all :) 

Whoohoo! I hope you're right.

The one screenshot I took last night was of a couple shamans and priests
standing around starting to rez people, nearly 40 corpses littered all
over the cave, and Mag hanging out in the far background. It sure makes
all the other instances in the game look like cake. Maraudon? Uldaman?
Psh, don't waste my time. :p 

--
Eonar: Hemophage (60), Human warrior Purge (60), Undead mage
Dagobert (34), Human mage Vaik (12), Night Elf rogue
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 11:33:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 01:42:10 -0600, chocolatemalt
<chocolatemalt@dim=dot=com.invalid> scribed into the ether:

>So... anyone have tactics to share for taking down this malevolent pooch?

Get his hitpoints to 0 before he gets all of your hitpoints to 0.
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 11:33:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

In article <71anf1d7pknejlvqbdfcr1pauhcbqjgj6t@4ax.com>,
Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 01:42:10 -0600, chocolatemalt
> <chocolatemalt@dim=dot=com.invalid> scribed into the ether:
>
> >So... anyone have tactics to share for taking down this malevolent pooch?
>
> Get his hitpoints to 0 before he gets all of your hitpoints to 0.

Yes! This is gonna win it for us! Thanks Matt, you're the best.

--
Eonar: Hemophage (60), Human warrior Purge (60), Undead mage
Dagobert (34), Human mage Vaik (12), Night Elf rogue
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 6:56:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:41:24 -0600, chocolatemalt
<chocolatemalt@dim=dot=com.invalid> scribed into the ether:

>In article <71anf1d7pknejlvqbdfcr1pauhcbqjgj6t@4ax.com>,
> Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 01:42:10 -0600, chocolatemalt
>> <chocolatemalt@dim=dot=com.invalid> scribed into the ether:
>>
>> >So... anyone have tactics to share for taking down this malevolent pooch?
>>
>> Get his hitpoints to 0 before he gets all of your hitpoints to 0.
>
>Yes! This is gonna win it for us! Thanks Matt, you're the best.

The simple strategies are always the best.
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 7:56:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

> I appreciate your comments... but speaking of mistakes, it would make it
> much easier for anyone to follow the discussion if you quoted the post
> you're responding to.

Sorry for that.. my comment "many mistakes" doesnt need a specific
quote cause i dont wanna quote anything... my points r just things
everyone should do / avoid when goin to magma...

> As mentioned in my post, we all have CTRA and get the warnings.

ok, then ur not dieing cause of fear (of the ranged)

> > 2nd: 3 heal groups (1 healer of each class: i.e. priest/druid/shaman)
> > after no mana or much healing in one group, next group heals MainTank.
> > like this the healer dont get much aggro. (important that healing
> > groups dont heal while they dont heal the MT)
>
> This sounds like a good tactic... as a mage I wasn't invited to that
> planning session, but I'll see what our current healer config is.

thats the key. 3x3 healer only for tank! like this he should survive!

> > 3rd: Bandage: rogues / mages etc should bandage themself (and getting
> > healed by other healer that r not in heal groups)
>
> Yep, that was actually spelled out quite clearly: "ROGUES AND RANGED
> ATTACKERS SHOULD NOT EXPECT HEALING -- BACK OFF AND BANDAGE!" Lol! And
> when hit with the fiery spitball, I was lucky to be able to run, cast
> fire ward, and bandage before burning to a crisp. One time I was hit
> with two inside of a few seconds and had no chance at all.

The spitball should only hit a maximum of 3 ppl. u must spread so only
a few r hitted. normally u dont get more then 2000 damage from a spit.
make sure to run away from magma to avoid getting hit a second time
before u bandage urself!

> I was assured he was doing this (and we had 2 other tanks that could
> step in when the MT died). I don't know why he kept dying, but it seems
> clear from the other online discussions that MT death = raid wipe. So
> we must fix this.

thats for sure... no need to let 2 other tank be there in case MT
dies... if he dies u only can survive with good equip, teamwork and a
bit luck. normally a 2nd tank should be ready and only fight as long as
the MT is beeing battle ressed... like this u should also survive when
MT dies (MT dies - 2 sec (cause a druid is always in healing range)
later hes up again. then he suddenly charge again while beeing healed
and buffed!

> I could use some more Magister's items, but have four now and nearly all
> blues in every other slot. And at that, I'm probably the freshest char
> in the raid... everyone else has all blues and purples, and lots of time
> logged in DM/LBRS/UBRS. I should spend more time in those places
> myself, but when the guild marches off to MC and yells at me "Why aren't
> you here??", well...

na, then its ok... but i think there r a few ppl that try doin MC with
(more then 1) green on them.

> We had a good mix (of classses) but not that good and that may be our fatal mistake.
> I think we had about 8 shamans, but only a few priests and druids...
> With several good healer teams, maybe we could do a better job at
> keeping the MT alive without getting healer aggro.

as i said... 11 healer (only druid and priest) would be nice. (but not
necessary).
The most important thing is that training is all.... we needed 20-30
tries (2-3 days) on Onyxia till we killed her the first time. then a
few (i think 6) times (1 day) later she died again. on our 3rd kill i
wasnt with my guild, but on 4th we killed her at the first try... same
with majordomo... we made 2 tries till he died first. then we need
another 2 tries (2nd with about 5 dead ppl) since then we kill him
always on first try without (or only 1 or 2) deads...

> It's tough to do a postmortem on the MC battles. I thought the XR raids
> were hard on my comp and the combat log, but Molten Core... sheesh!
> Performance dove to a stuttering 10 fps at times, with the combat log
> shooting by in a useless manner. The dps-meter add-ons are helpful here
> (I'm using Recap) but again I find myself wishing for some add-on to
> really do a nice analysis of the combat log, showing for the selected
> player or mob, all the hits, misses, dmg taken, resists, buffs, debuffs,
> etc, in chronological order. Maybe I'll have to write one...

i dont get it... i use Combat scroller (or so, just look a few threads
above / below for one i started). that shows u ur damage / debuffs /
buffs etc... BTW in MC i always have below 15 FPS... minimum of 5 FPS
and im a healer (and a good one ;-) ). there is no big problem, cause
i have a good ping.
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 5:09:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

In article <1123844205.001441.4880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
maxnews01@web.de wrote:

> > I appreciate your comments... but speaking of mistakes, it would make it
> > much easier for anyone to follow the discussion if you quoted the post
> > you're responding to.
>
> Sorry for that.. my comment "many mistakes" doesnt need a specific
> quote cause i dont wanna quote anything... my points r just things
> everyone should do / avoid when goin to magma...

Cool man, you got it right this time. :) 

> thats the key. 3x3 healer only for tank! like this he should survive!

Yeah that's my sense too... MT dying was our trigger point for party
wipe, rarely did secondary tanks build aggro before a bunch of non-tanks
got stomped.

> as i said... 11 healer (only druid and priest) would be nice. (but not
> necessary).
> The most important thing is that training is all.... we needed 20-30
> tries (2-3 days) on Onyxia till we killed her the first time. then a
> few (i think 6) times (1 day) later she died again. on our 3rd kill i
> wasnt with my guild, but on 4th we killed her at the first try... same
> with majordomo... we made 2 tries till he died first. then we need
> another 2 tries (2nd with about 5 dead ppl) since then we kill him
> always on first try without (or only 1 or 2) deads...

Good to know... I may be back here with more questions after some wipes
against those badboys.

> > It's tough to do a postmortem on the MC battles. I thought the XR raids
> > were hard on my comp and the combat log, but Molten Core... sheesh!
> > Performance dove to a stuttering 10 fps at times, with the combat log
> > shooting by in a useless manner. The dps-meter add-ons are helpful here
> > (I'm using Recap) but again I find myself wishing for some add-on to
> > really do a nice analysis of the combat log, showing for the selected
> > player or mob, all the hits, misses, dmg taken, resists, buffs, debuffs,
> > etc, in chronological order. Maybe I'll have to write one...
>
> i dont get it... i use Combat scroller (or so, just look a few threads
> above / below for one i started). that shows u ur damage / debuffs /
> buffs etc... BTW in MC i always have below 15 FPS... minimum of 5 FPS
> and im a healer (and a good one ;-) ). there is no big problem, cause
> i have a good ping.

Will look for other thread. I use ScrollingCombatText too (assuming
that's what you mean) and it's great to a point, but useless for
determining which of the 15 nearby XR raid foes has hit you. Even in MC
it's of limited value if you take too many individual effects too
quickly. Just like "recap" shows a nice layout of stats for everything
and everyone that has passed through the combat log, I'd like a
"fight-recap" that shows details of the last combat, particularly as it
pertains to yourself and the foes you were affecting. But again, I
suspect I'll have to write it.

Next trip to MC, I'm setting the resolution down to 1280x1024 to see if
I can keep fps above 30.

--
Eonar: Hemophage (60), Human warrior Purge (60), Undead mage
Dagobert (34), Human mage Vaik (12), Night Elf rogue
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 5:12:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

chocolatemalt wrote:
>
> I was assured he was doing this (and we had 2 other tanks that could
> step in when the MT died). I don't know why he kept dying, but it seems
> clear from the other online discussions that MT death = raid wipe. So
> we must fix this.

Ok I haven't Played WoW at all (but have been lurking in this NG for
some time) but why not have 2 (or even 3 in this case) acting as MT's.
Naturally one will take most of the aggro (and therefore you want to be
targetting your heals on him, but you don't want to forget the others)
and hopefuly the others will be second or third on the "hate" list (if
not they should only need a couple of seconds to become top if the main
tank dies). This way, if the main tank dies, it's not your soft targets
next on the list.
!