I7 or XEON Any Suggestions?

[Knuckles2002]

Hello All,

I am in the process of building a workstation for 3D Modeling (3D Max), Max Rendering, Video Editing, Photoshop and other adobe like products. I want to knock out the CPU selection of the build first. With that said I have a couple questions I was hoping someone could help me out with:

PS: Don't worry about cpu cost I am more concerned with power and speed.

1. What is the better way to go for a workstation like this i7 or Xeon?

2. What is the fastest processing speeds to date for the i7 and Xeon?

I am solely looking for top notch CPU speed right now!!

Thank you,

Frank G.

 

[DarkSable]

Depends on what program you're going to use, really...

The top of the line i7s are amazing if the program can use hyperthreading, and the mid-range Xeons are amazing if it doesn't.

The extreme Xeons trounce anything, as far as I know, but you have to sit back and consider if it's worth spending $1000 on the CPU and $200 more than a normal motherboard for a gain of 20-30 seconds encoding time.

 

[Knuckles2002]

Depends on what program you're going to use, really...

The top of the line i7s are amazing if the program can use hyperthreading, and the mid-range Xeons are amazing if it doesn't.

The extreme Xeons trounce anything, as far as I know, but you have to sit back and consider if it's worth spending $1000 on the CPU and $200 more than a normal motherboard for a gain of 20-30 seconds encoding time.

Hello DarkSable,

The software that I will mostly be using on this system is:

1. 3Ds Max
2. Photoshop
3. Fireworks
4. Sony Vega
5. Dreamweaver
6. Adobe Flash
7. Other Video Editing Software

As well as a few others. From what I have read it appears that Max is not fully compatible with threading. It more of a user preference but it doesn't take full advantage of it. But I'm not building a computer workstation for today I need to go with the future because I am sure Max will change this in the next software release or two.

What would you recommend I do for this? I guess for now I'm after a broad range of things I need this computer to do so with that what would be the better processer?

Thanks again for your help!!

 

[Scott_D_Bowen]

You'd want to go Xeon's based on your desire to have a workstation (vs a consumer PC) and the kind of software you're likely to be running.

Look at ECC Registered x4 (not x8) RAM too, and plan to keep the thing around 'til it has 128GB of RAM if you can.

 

[ihsaan96]

You should get the i7's instead of Xeon

 

[k1114]

It actually depends on your budget. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-3970x-sandy-bridge-e-benchmark,3348-6.html Max takes full advantage of all cores and has always been like this. I'd dig up older benchmarks but you should just take my word on it. The viewports of any 3d software is single threaded but the performance there is gpu related.

 

[Knuckles2002]

It actually depends on your budget. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-3970x-sandy-bridge-e-benchmark,3348-6.html Max takes full advantage of all cores and has always been like this. I'd dig up older benchmarks but you should just take my word on it. The viewports of any 3d software is single threaded but the performance there is gpu related.

Hello K1114, thank you for that info very helpful.

Okay looking at the following results from your chart above.

Intel Xeon E5-2687w - Rendered in 1:42 Avg. Price $2,000.00 per chip

Intel Core i7-3970X - Rendered in 1:53 Avg. Prive $1,000.00 per chip

Intel Core i7-3930X - Rendered at 2:00 Avg. Price $600.00 per chip

1. Is it really worth going for the E5-2687 or 3970x for that much more money? It almost seems like to the naked eye you might not even notice the difference. Seems like a lot of money for a small increase. What do you think? I am leaning towards getting two of the i7-3930X chips.

2. Does Max take advantage of a duel processing motherboard if I were to put 2 x Core i7-3930X chips on it?

Thanks again!!

 

[hollett]

If you want dual CPU then you must go Xeon as i7’s only support single CPU configurations the other reason to go for Xeon is if you need/want more than the 64GB ram supported by the i7 39xx CPU’s

 

[pauls3743]

Only the xeons are designed to run with more than a single processor in the board. And I seriously doubt if an i7 would run on a board designed for a xeon, even though they share the same socket.

 

[k1114]

You cannot dual two i7, you must get xeon for that. But you can however have multiple computers like a renderfarm. Yes max can take advantage of any hardware setup. Being able to use dual socket mobos is not down to the software anyways, meaning any software will. Windows handles the cpu workload distribution, the software just needs to be multithreaded. Renderfarms do need software though to essentially communicate with them all since they are a network and not one pc. Max comes with software called backburner for that.

For professionals, time equals money so they have to have the best of the best and have the budget to do so. It's much more cost effective to go for a cluster of cheaper setups, but some people don't have the space and/or really just want 1 pc. If I were to suggest an xeon, the 2687w would not be my suggestion for your budget.

 

[Traciatim]

I would think that multiple machines using the i7-3930k would probably be the most reasonable and cost efficient option. Especially since it would make it so you could have 2 of your machines off doing random work while you have full usage of your main machine.

 

[Knuckles2002]

Hello Fellas, yes I do like that idea of a render farm but its more invalid then I want to get into right now. However down the road I will look at doing that. For now I need a workstation that is fast would allow me to do work in max, adobe products (dreamweaver, photoshop, flash, sony vega, outlook, word, chrome, etc...). I do want to get a lot of memory so it will be able to handle leaving different applications open at any given time. I have decided to go with Xeon's since they will allow me two processors on a board. I just now need to figure out how much I want to spend on the Xeon's. I am thinking some where in the ball park of $1,000 to $1,500 per chip. Any suggestions what you think would fit that? Thanks again!!

 

[ebalong]

You'd want to go Xeon's based on your desire to have a workstation (vs a consumer PC) and the kind of software you're likely to be running.

Look at ECC Registered x4 (not x8) RAM too, and plan to keep the thing around 'til it has 128GB of RAM if you can.

Many individuals, and even companies use regular i7's (even i5's) for "workstations". Don't just parrot Intel marketing literature. It's a little more complicated than just "you need a Xeon and a Quadro for a workstation, end of story".

Rather than just repeating marketing hype, why don't you link to tests, comparisons, benchmarks or other examples that illustrate the difference between Xeons and "consumer" grade processors, in those type of programs that the OP listed, so everyone has a chance to be more informed?

Xeons are allegedly more "reliable" and "durable" under the constant, heavy usage that you would have in a work situation. At least that is what Intel "says". OK then, where is the data to support this? Forgive me if I do not just take Intel's word for it, I need to see some proof.

What does ECC RAM do for CAD and Graphic Design software? How much does that really increase performance and reliability with those programs? Show us.

As others stated, you would need to jump up to a Xeon if you felt you could benefit with more than 6 cores (currently the limit for non-Xeon i7's) or you want to have a dual-CPU setup. If you have the budget and you are doing lots of CPU-based rendering (3DS Max Mental Ray), then, yes - you most likely want Xeons and 8-16 cores. However, bear in mind that for the programs that utilize GPU-acceleration (iray, Vray-RT, some of your Adobe software) you really just need something with a lot of CUDA cores, and the right driver support. Supposedly, even the GTX-5xx Geforces perform well in this regard, look around for some benchmarks and performance comparisons. The Kepler 6xx Geforces are reportedly hamstrung from performing GPGPU up there with the pro cards, though; I guess Nvidia wasn't too appreciative of the fact that folks could get pretty good GPU acceleration off of their "gaming" cards.

If you are saying money is no concern, than by all means, go all out and get dual E5-2687W Xeons (each one will set you back ~$1,800-$1,900), for the cores and the high clocks (the less expensive E5 Xeons are slower) and a Quadro along with a Tesla, for the ultimate in CAD performance and GPU acceleration.

 

[ebalong]

Examples:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007671%20600217725&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&CompareItemList=343%7C19-117-266%5E19-117-266-02%23%2C19-117-272%5E19-117-272-02%23%2C19-117-262%5E19-117-262-02%23%2C19-117-261%5E19-117-261-02%23%2C19-116-492%5E19-116-492-TS

8-core Xeons of various clocks vs. the 6-core i7 (I selected the less expensive 3930K to represent the non-Xeon i7, because the ~$1,000 3960X doesn't provide too much performance difference).

 

[Knuckles2002]

Many individuals, and even companies use regular i7's (even i5's) for "workstations". Don't just parrot Intel marketing literature. It's a little more complicated than just "you need a Xeon and a Quadro for a workstation, end of story".

Rather than just repeating marketing hype, why don't you link to tests, comparisons, benchmarks or other examples that illustrate the difference between Xeons and "consumer" grade processors, in those type of programs that the OP listed, so everyone has a chance to be more informed?

Xeons are allegedly more "reliable" and "durable" under the constant, heavy usage that you would have in a work situation. At least that is what Intel "says". OK then, where is the data to support this? Forgive me if I do not just take Intel's word for it, I need to see some proof.

What does ECC RAM do for CAD and Graphic Design software? How much does that really increase performance and reliability with those programs? Show us.

As others stated, you would need to jump up to a Xeon if you felt you could benefit with more than 6 cores (currently the limit for non-Xeon i7's) or you want to have a dual-CPU setup. If you have the budget and you are doing lots of CPU-based rendering (3DS Max Mental Ray), then, yes - you most likely want Xeons and 8-16 cores. However, bear in mind that for the programs that utilize GPU-acceleration (iray, Vray-RT, some of your Adobe software) you really just need something with a lot of CUDA cores, and the right driver support. Supposedly, even the GTX-5xx Geforces perform well in this regard, look around for some benchmarks and performance comparisons. The Kepler 6xx Geforces are reportedly hamstrung from performing GPGPU up there with the pro cards, though; I guess Nvidia wasn't too appreciative of the fact that folks could get pretty good GPU acceleration off of their "gaming" cards.

If you are saying money is no concern, than by all means, go all out and get dual E5-2687W Xeons (each one will set you back ~$1,800-$1,900), for the cores and the high clocks (the less expensive E5 Xeons are slower) and a Quadro along with a Tesla, for the ultimate in CAD performance and GPU acceleration.

Hello ebalong, thank you very much for your info. Money is an object! I wanted to see what the best of the best is, how much it really costs and what's the difference between the best and mid class. Also from what I'm gathering is the video card is the most important part of the rendering and is where you get most of your rendering speed. I did look at the Quadro 6k and the Quadro 5k for about $4,000 grand. The problem with the card is I have 4 monitors and those cards from what I am told can only handle 2 monitors and you can't use those cards in SLI configuration to add additional monitors. So that's another problem I am going to face as I move forward in this building processes. But first I wanted to nail down the motherboard and processors to use then I will look at Memory, GPU, etc...

As for processes I am looking at the E5-2470 or E52670 both are 8 cores an a little less expensive then the E5-2687W. What are your thoughts?

Thanks again!!

 

[k1114]

You need to know what renderer you are using. Some will only use the cpu making all that gpu power useless. The ones that can use the gpu do not need sli meaning you can use a gtx+quadro+tesla. You don't need the same gpu for more monitors, right now I have my intel integrated and my 560ti running different monitors. The quadro 5000 and up can sli but note that viewports only use 1 gpu.

The e5 2470 is the wrong socket.

 

[ebalong]

Hello ebalong, thank you very much for your info. Money is an object! I wanted to see what the best of the best is, how much it really costs and what's the difference between the best and mid class. Also from what I'm gathering is the video card is the most important part of the rendering and is where you get most of your rendering speed. I did look at the Quadro 6k and the Quadro 5k for about $4,000 grand. The problem with the card is I have 4 monitors and those cards from what I am told can only handle 2 monitors and you can't use those cards in SLI configuration to add additional monitors. So that's another problem I am going to face as I move forward in this building processes. But first I wanted to nail down the motherboard and processors to use then I will look at Memory, GPU, etc...

As for processes I am looking at the E5-2470 or E52670 both are 8 cores an a little less expensive then the E5-2687W. What are your thoughts?

Thanks again!!

The video card accelerates rendering only when you have a renderer that utilizes CUDA, which means you need a Nvidia card.

Mental Ray, Vray - CPU only (more cores, faster rendering)

iray, Vray-RT - CPU + GPU (you need a Nvidia GPU, because this only works with CUDA)

Do the new Kepler Quadros (K4000, K5000, etc.) support more than two displays? I know that previous ones did not, which is why some people went with the AMD Firepro cards, but then you don't have the CUDA cores for rendering acceleration.

The 2670s look good if you want to shave a little off the price of the 2687W; 3.3GHz at turbo is respectable. I don't know what the real life performance difference would be between that chip and a sub-3.0GHz processor like the E5-2650 (which is ~$400 less than the 2670). Also take note of the differences in TDP between the different Xeons. The 2650 can run 8-cores at only 95W TDP because of the lower clocks. Might be something to consider if you are concerned about heat (if you don't have a well-ventilated case).

There are so many options and versions it requires a lot of research to determine what your exact needs, budget and performance expectations are.

 

[Knuckles2002]

You need to know what renderer you are using. Some will only use the cpu making all that gpu power useless. The ones that can use the gpu do not need sli meaning you can use a gtx+quadro+tesla. You don't need the same gpu for more monitors, right now I have my intel integrated and my 560ti running different monitors. The quadro 5000 and up can sli but note that viewports only use 1 gpu.

The e5 2470 is the wrong socket.

Thanks again for all your help!! It's hard to say what I will be using to render. Right now I am a programmer and web developer and have owned my own business for about 12 years and I also gave myself junky, crappy slow computers and I am just sick and tired of waiting and waiting so I reached a point that I deserve to work on something that can keep up with me and help me get things down easier, faster and as well as be much more productive over all. For example right now I am using a Core 2 Duo 2.0ghz with 4 gb memory and a 480gb SSD drive painful to work on to say the least!!

I have used 3D Max in the past doing simple little things so I do have some experience. I am planning on taking lessons and getting more into it and this is why I am looking for a system that would allow me to grow in to that as well as be able to handle my web development work to.

Is this system i'm looking to build overkill I'm sure... especially because my 3D Max skills aren't up to that kind of par yet. But I will be one day for sure! So I am just trying to see what the best of the best is and see how I can fall somewhere in the middle of it. Sure I would love the Quadro 6000 but I don't have 4 grand to drop on a gpu right now.

So I don't know what I will be using to render but I like to find something that works fair for all kinds of things for now and as I get better i can buy for that.

What socket should I be looking at for the Xeon processor?

Thanks again!

 

[k1114]

Vray does not need cuda, iray does. The k5000 does support 4 monitors. The k4000 is not out yet but like other high end kepler gpus it will also support 4.

You should be looking at lga2011. Since you are just starting out, I'd suggest just going with a single i7 3930k. It will be plenty fast and then you can drop more money into a later dual cpu rig. My 560ti handles any project I throw on max and maya and gpu accelerated rendering is definitely what you want to use to save render time.

Btw it's 3D Studio Max shortened to 3DS Max or just Max. 3D max is something different.

 

[ebalong]

Thanks again for all your help!! It's hard to say what I will be using to render. Right now I am a programmer and web developer and have owned my own business for about 12 years and I also gave myself junky, crappy slow computers and I am just sick and tired of waiting and waiting so I reached a point that I deserve to work on something that can keep up with me and help me get things down easier, faster and as well as be much more productive over all. For example right now I am using a Core 2 Duo 2.0ghz with 4 gb memory and a 480gb SSD drive painful to work on to say the least!!

I have used 3D Max in the past doing simple little things so I do have some experience. I am planning on taking lessons and getting more into it and this is why I am looking for a system that would allow me to grow in to that as well as be able to handle my web development work to.

Is this system i'm looking to build overkill I'm sure... especially because my 3D Max skills aren't up to that kind of par yet. But I will be one day for sure! So I am just trying to see what the best of the best is and see how I can fall somewhere in the middle of it. Sure I would love the Quadro 6000 but I don't have 4 grand to drop on a gpu right now.

So I don't know what I will be using to render but I like to find something that works fair for all kinds of things for now and as I get better i can buy for that.

What socket should I be looking at for the Xeon processor?

Thanks again!

For the E5's, the 2011 socket. It's the same one that the enthusiast-grade i7's use; just with a different chipset. If you are still learning in 3DS Max, then I wonder if you might want to begin with a 3930K rig, or even an i7-3770K.

A 3770K paired with an SSD, 16GB of RAM, and a decent video card (like a GTX 560ti or a 570) would cost thousands less than even a middle of the road E5 Xeon rig, but would still run circles around that old Core 2 system.

If you wanted a cheaper Xeon, they do have Ivy Bridge Xeons for the 1155 socket out right now. There is one (I forgot the exact model #) that is equivalent in every way to the i7-3770K except it runs slightly cooler, may be a little less expensive, and does not overclock (at least not easily).

Compare these socket 1155 processors:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007671&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&ActiveSearchResult=True&CompareItemList=343%7C19-117-286%5E19-117-286-TS%2C19-117-282%5E19-117-282-TS%2C19-117-284%5E19-117-284-TS%2C19-117-283%5E19-117-283-TS%2C19-116-501%5E19-116-501-TS

These are 1155 socket Xeons (4 core/8thread) that are comparable or less in price than the 3770K, and are clocked similar.

You could build a smoking 1155 system for less than $1,500 (maybe even less than $1,000 depending on the components and pricing) that would kick the tar out of your current system, while you are exploring your new software. After you get well-versed in 3DS Max, and decide you want more grunt to cut those rendering times down, then you can spend more money - maybe they will have Haswell Xeons out by then.

 

[ebalong]

Vray does not need cuda, iray does. The k5000 does support 4 monitors. The k4000 is not out yet but like other high end kepler gpus it will also support 4.

You should be looking at lga2011. Since you are just starting out, I'd suggest just going with a single i7 3930k. It will be plenty fast and then you can drop more money into a later dual cpu rig. My 560ti handles any project I throw on max and maya and gpu accelerated rendering is definitely what you want to use to save render time.

Btw it's 3D Studio Max shortened to 3DS Max. 3D max is something different.

I thought there is a version of Vray called Vray-RT that includes support for CUDA-based acceleration. I agree with the sentiment to start out with a 3930K rig (or even a 3770K/E3 Xeon), and that a regular gaming card like the 560ti is plenty for a lot of CAD work.

 

[k1114]

Vray has vray rt in it and it can be gpu accelerated by both nvidia and amd.

The e3 1230v2 is the best bang/buck at the "lower end". It doesn't really run cooler, .1ghz less than the 3770, $60 less and the lower tdp is because there is no igpu.

 

[ebalong]

Vray has vray rt in it and it can be gpu accelerated by both nvidia and amd.

The e3 1230v2 is the best bang/buck at the "lower end". It doesn't really run cooler, .1ghz less than the 3770, $60 less and the lower tdp is because there is no igpu.

Oh yeah, that's right. Vray-RT works with Firepro cards too? That's interesting. I guess the difference is iray is Nvidia's own renderer, so it is only programmed to be accelerated by Nvidia gpu's.

 

[k1114]

It'll work with radeon too, it uses opencl for amd.

 

[Knuckles2002]

Hello All, I get that I'm just starting out but I rather dump some more into power and speed not just for max but for everything I do. I work on the desktop 15 hours a day. I need something that will make me SMILE from EAR to EAR!! No joke, I don't mind paying for speed it will make me get more done in turn making more money and working happier by all means. I rather stick toward the Xeon's they are a better processor.

Here is what I am looking at:

Motherboard: EVGA Classified SR-X 270-SE

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188119

Processor: 2 x Xeon E5-2670 Sandy Bridge-EP 2.6GHz

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117263

Now will the processor work with that motherboard? And will that be HAPPY FAST? haha thanks as always! Next is the video card yuppppy!!