Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Struggling to decide between Ivy Bridge and Haswell

Tags:
Last response: in CPUs
Share
January 9, 2013 1:15:00 PM

Originally I was going to upgrade to Haswell in the summer but recently I've found my current rig to be struggling in areas I use it for so I'm considering bringing it forward.

The main issue though is that I'm aware of the 10-15% figure going around but I'm wondering whether the other additions are included in this figure or worse whether they will be required in the future for something e.g. similar to SSE3 being required on OSX.

The main non-casual uses of my computer are (in no particular order):
1. Gaming (I'm aware that my GPU would be a bottleneck)
2. Virtual Machines (particularly Server 2003/8, XP, Linux, etc.)
3. Video Editing (Mainly TV rips)

I may also opt for a non-k i7 since I never OC'd my E8400 (don't ask) so it may end up being a waste.

Obviously I know about the 'if you need it now' argument but I'm concerned that upgrading now will cause more problems in the longer term.

My current spec is:
Intel E8400- 3GHz
4GB RAM
AMD 5770 (Plan to upgrade in the future, main issue now is the CPU)
Samsung 830 256GB
a b à CPUs
January 9, 2013 1:50:47 PM

I can't see upgrading now causing you any issues. There is always something faster coming along.

If you don't take the plunge you might never
m
0
l
a c 480 à CPUs
January 9, 2013 2:37:58 PM

tech3475 said:


Obviously I know about the 'if you need it now' argument but I'm concerned that upgrading now will cause more problems in the longer term.




???

m
0
l
Related resources
a b à CPUs
January 9, 2013 2:57:50 PM

If you need now,upgrade now.
As for the OCing,the K series can be OCed using auto voltage to a good speed with much effort.
I OCed an E7500 and it was easy.All you need is start small on the OC and test it throughly.In the end the 200$ cpu will be very very valuable and a 150$ non oc cpu will be a bottleneck earlier and drop in "worth" faster.
m
0
l
January 9, 2013 3:04:47 PM


From what I have seen from the Intel Developer Forum this year, you're not going to be seeing much benefit by waiting for Haswell. Lots of focus on the integrated graphics and power saving features...not so much CPU improvements. In other words, I wouldn't expect the next Sandy Bridge. So if it were me, I'd build now.

If you're really set on waiting, it looks like your current processor still has some life in it. You could always upgrade the graphics card to something better, and then put that card into the Haswell machine when the time comes. The CPU may bottleneck a really nice card a bit, but you'll still see a big improvement in games in the meantime.

Also, if you use quick sync a lot for video, maybe you will want to wait. Haswell graphics improvements should provide a good improvement on that front.
m
0
l
January 9, 2013 4:56:29 PM

jaguarskx said:
???


I.e. the features in Haswell will become more useful/essential down the road and to upgrade now would be short sighted, see the SSE3 example which was an issue if you used hackintoshes (where I read about it).

blacknemesist said:
If you need now,upgrade now.
As for the OCing,the K series can be OCed using auto voltage to a good speed with much effort.
I OCed an E7500 and it was easy.All you need is start small on the OC and test it throughly.In the end the 200$ cpu will be very very valuable and a 150$ non oc cpu will be a bottleneck earlier and drop in "worth" faster.


I know how to OC, the only problem though was getting around to it and the one time I did I found little difference or worse. Also I heard IB doesn't OC that well anyway. So in the end I never bothered and any extra money from better HS/F was wasted.

Daedalus12 said:
From what I have seen from the Intel Developer Forum this year, you're not going to be seeing much benefit by waiting for Haswell. Lots of focus on the integrated graphics and power saving features...not so much CPU improvements. In other words, I wouldn't expect the next Sandy Bridge. So if it were me, I'd build now.

If you're really set on waiting, it looks like your current processor still has some life in it. You could always upgrade the graphics card to something better, and then put that card into the Haswell machine when the time comes. The CPU may bottleneck a really nice card a bit, but you'll still see a big improvement in games in the meantime.

Also, if you use quick sync a lot for video, maybe you will want to wait. Haswell graphics improvements should provide a good improvement on that front.


This was my concern, if it's just 10-15% I'd swallow it but I was only concerned about any other features which may become required in the longer term. For gaming my CPU is ok (and I'm waiting to see if the person who may take my old system buys my old GPU as well) but it's only because I'm going to start using VMs more that I really considered upgrading now. As it stands I haven't used quick sync but I know about it, again I'd swallow any difference.

So thank you to the replies, so as it stands I shouldn't face any real medium-long term issues by buying an IB system now instead of waiting for Haswell, correct?
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
January 9, 2013 5:32:33 PM

Upgrade now. Core2Duo to Ivy is a big jump.
m
0
l
January 9, 2013 5:52:48 PM

When is Haswell expected to be released?
m
0
l
January 9, 2013 6:43:01 PM

I think it was supposed to be March/April, but then new information came out that pegged the desktop processor releases to be in June or later (some mobile chips were going to be released in March/April). You also have to figure another month or two after that because it is a good idea to not be an "early adopter". So, I second the idea of just going Ivy now, unless you feel like you can wait another 6-8 months or so.

Edit:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2292360

and

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/launch_of_intel_haswel...
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
January 9, 2013 6:59:19 PM

Performance

Compared to Ivy Bridge (expected):

At least 10% CPU performance increase.[8]
Up to double the performance of the integrated GPU. (Haswell GT3 vs Ivy Bridge HD4000)

Features carried over from Ivy Bridge

A 22 nm manufacturing process.
3D tri-gate transistors.
A 14-stage pipeline (since the Core microarchitecture).[11]
Mainstream up to quad-core.[12]
Native support for dual channel DDR3.[13]
64 kB (32 kB Instruction + 32 kB Data) L1 cache and 256 kB L2 cache per core.[14]

Confirmed new features

Haswell New Instructions (includes Advanced Vector Extensions 2 (AVX2), gather, bit manipulation, and FMA3 support).[15]
New sockets — LGA 1150 for desktops and rPGA947 & BGA1364 for the mobile market.[16] It is possible that Socket R3 will replace LGA 2011 for server Haswells[17][18]
Intel Transactional Synchronization Extensions (TSX).[19]
Graphics support in hardware for Direct3D 11.1 and OpenGL 4.0.[20]
DDR4 for the enterprise/server variant (Haswell-EX).[21]
Variable Base clock (BClk)[22] like LGA 2011.[23]
Supervisor mode access prevention (SMAP)[24]

Expected features

Shrink PCH[25] from 65 nm to 32 nm.
A new cache design.
Up to 32MB Unified cache LLC (Last Level Cache).[26]
Support for Thunderbolt technology.[27]
There will be three versions of the integrated GPU: GT1, GT2, and GT3. According to vr-zone, the fastest version (GT3) will have 20 execution units (EU).[28] Another source, SemiAccurate, however says that the GT3 will have 40 EUs[29] with an accompanying 64MB cache on an interposer.[30] An additional source, AnandTech, agrees that GT3 will have 40 EUs, and states there will be a version with up to 128MB of embedded DRAM, but makes no mention of an interposer.[31][32] Haswell's predecessor, Ivy Bridge, has a maximum of 16 EUs.
New advanced power-saving system.
Fully integrated voltage regulator, thereby moving a component from the motherboard onto the CPU.[33]
37, 47, 57W thermal design power (TDP) mobile processors.[12]
35, 45, 65, 84, and ~100W+ (high-end, Haswell-E) TDP desktop processors.[12]
10W TDP processors for the Ultrabook platform (multi-chip package like Westmere)[34] leading to reduced heat which results in thinner as well as lighter Ultrabooks, but performance level will be lower than the 17W version.[35]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell_%28microarchitectu...

My opinion is you have to answer the question of a need now basis. If you can't honestly state you "need" it now then wait. If you do then build now.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
January 9, 2013 7:09:18 PM

I can't see having haswell having any features that will be needed in games. That just locks out the entire sandy/ivy/lga2011 group which is pointless.

They are most going for igp and power as the other guys say. So maybe a slight more jump than sandy to ivy at stock.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
January 9, 2013 7:16:16 PM

darth pravus said:
That just locks out the entire sandy/ivy/lga2011 group which is pointless.

They are most going for igp and power as the other guys say. So maybe a slight more jump than sandy to ivy at stock.

pointless to us. But to all the mobo makers etc...
More $$$$$$$$$$$ ;) .
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
January 9, 2013 7:28:28 PM

True but gaming companies usually just utilize whats most popular. Hence DX10 didnt lift off cos not many people got dx10 GPU's.

The next CPU arch after Haswell is said to be motherboard soldered.
m
0
l
January 9, 2013 8:59:08 PM

Since you haven't used quick sync, then go for the upgrade now. Other than that, there is going to be very little difference in performance between the two.
m
0
l
January 10, 2013 5:09:27 PM

So If I go with the IB upgrade (leaning towards it), how would this be:
Corsair CX750
Corsair CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9 8GB 1600MHz CL9 DDR3 Vengeance
Asus P8Z77-V PRO Motherboard
Intel Core i7-3770K

Sorry if I have made any obvious mistakes, also decided to go k but not buy the HS/F for now.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
January 10, 2013 6:08:56 PM

tech3475 said:
So If I go with the IB upgrade (leaning towards it), how would this be:
Corsair CX750
Corsair CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9 8GB 1600MHz CL9 DDR3 Vengeance
Asus P8Z77-V PRO Motherboard
Intel Core i7-3770K

Sorry if I have made any obvious mistakes, also decided to go k but not buy the HS/F for now.

Looks good. The psu might be a bit overkill. (not sure what your doing GPU wise thou) Good brand choice.
But that will be a solid gaming / vid editing system
m
0
l
January 10, 2013 6:53:03 PM

tech3475 said:
So If I go with the IB upgrade (leaning towards it), how would this be:
Corsair CX750
Corsair CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9 8GB 1600MHz CL9 DDR3 Vengeance
Asus P8Z77-V PRO Motherboard
Intel Core i7-3770K

Sorry if I have made any obvious mistakes, also decided to go k but not buy the HS/F for now.


Looks pretty good to me. Like unoriginal1 said, good brands, and that PSU might be a bit much depending on what you are doing for graphics. Unless you are going for the highest end video card, or want the option to run SLI, a 600-650W should be fine. It'll save you a bit of money for the upgrade :) 
m
0
l
January 10, 2013 6:53:22 PM

unoriginal1 said:
Looks good. The psu might be a bit overkill. (not sure what your doing GPU wise thou) Good brand choice.
But that will be a solid gaming / vid editing system


I was going to go 600w but the unit I wanted was out of stock at my preferred supplier so for the money this was the next best option I found..

I may also in the future have a second gpu depending on what happened with the current one when I upgrade.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
January 10, 2013 7:45:30 PM

tech3475 said:
I was going to go 600w but the unit I wanted was out of stock at my preferred supplier so for the money this was the next best option I found..

I may also in the future have a second gpu depending on what happened with the current one when I upgrade.

Looks good then! I'd say your ready for purchase. Enjoy the much improved system.. I'm patiently waiting for haswell (and funds) to roll around :D .
m
0
l
January 11, 2013 5:50:01 AM

unoriginal1 said:
Looks good then! I'd say your ready for purchase. Enjoy the much improved system.. I'm patiently waiting for haswell (and funds) to roll around :D .


A month ago id be doing the same, but Ive found upgrading now has too many immediate benefits.

Ok thanks eveyone, ill order the parts later.

m
0
l
a c 186 à CPUs
January 11, 2013 6:05:35 AM

Core 2 to Haswell is the most optimal upgrade path.
m
0
l
January 11, 2013 9:21:28 AM

amuffin said:
Core 2 to Haswell is the most optimal upgrade path.


I know, but as I said as long as I don't face compatibility issues I'm ok with the loss.
m
0
l
January 12, 2013 10:27:54 AM

Ok so I've ordered the stuff (ended up ordering different RAM to the above otherwise I'd be waiting till February), but I just thought about the HSF, since stock may be noisy I've thought about just buying one now, how is the 212 evo? Or are there better ones for a budget of £30?
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
January 12, 2013 10:33:12 AM

I was in the exact same situation last week. Then i read that steam roller will be on the am3+ platform. Now its complety up to you lots of people dislike amd cpus i have nothing against them. i choose the am3+ socket just cause of the upgrade path, i didnt wanna buy the lga 1155 socket since its bassically a dead socket. i choose the 6300. paired it with the 7970 and its fine. Id reccmoend either waiting for haswell if your patient for jumping on the am3+ getting piledriver 6300/8320 and getting steam roller when it comes out too. Its your money your choice. im just giving my 2 cents Good day and good luck :-)
m
0
l
January 12, 2013 10:48:40 AM

stantheman123 said:
I was in the exact same situation last week. Then i read that steam roller will be on the am3+ platform. Now its complety up to you lots of people dislike amd cpus i have nothing against them. i choose the am3+ socket just cause of the upgrade path, i didnt wanna buy the lga 1155 socket since its bassically a dead socket. i choose the 6300. paired it with the 7970 and its fine. Id reccmoend either waiting for haswell if your patient for jumping on the am3+ getting piledriver 6300/8320 and getting steam roller when it comes out too. Its your money your choice. im just giving my 2 cents Good day and good luck :-)


Unfortunately I've already got everything but the CPU/RAM (LOL), now I just need to get a HSF.

My main problem was a concern for compatibility with future software, originally I was going to wait like you but I've just found myself needing things now for non-gaming issues (but that's still important to me which is why I ignored AMD after what I heard about BD).

That said, I hope AMD get their act together, it would be nice to see some competition again especially since they're better with their sockets for my next build in 4 years.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
January 12, 2013 11:20:57 AM

tech3475 said:
Unfortunately I've already got everything but the CPU/RAM (LOL), now I just need to get a HSF.

My main problem was a concern for compatibility with future software, originally I was going to wait like you but I've just found myself needing things now for non-gaming issues (but that's still important to me which is why I ignored AMD after what I heard about BD).

That said, I hope AMD get their act together, it would be nice to see some competition again especially since they're better with their sockets for my next build in 4 years.


Yea bulldozer is pretty bad, however i must say this new piledriver cpu i got is great bang for the buck i paid 148 im playing each game over 60fps bf3,borderlands,saints row 3, etc. so i cant complain about amd. I know intel is faster. but someone has to support amd and thatill be me. i really hope amd pulls through. anyway i went off topic. are you gonna pair it up with the 3570k? thats a great gaming cpu.
m
0
l
January 22, 2013 7:14:21 AM

So I put the build together last thursday and I have had slightly high temps so I'm think about reapplying the thermal paste but I have also discovered that my usb floppy doesn't work and when it did gave me compatibility issues.

For £18 more I can get an Asrock Fatality z77 Pro which includes onboard floppy and IDE (both I would use), is this a good motherboard or should I just stick with the Asus?

Since I'm taking off the thermal paste anyway this wouldn't too much of an pain for me.
m
0
l
!