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Frank E wrote:
> Hmm, if you're bringing up crits to hold agro, I think you've already
> lost that part of the debate. <g>
Naah. I realise we're the poor man's tank. We're just not as poor as
the Paladins.
I have done MT on everything short of Onyxia and MC,
including 5 man Baron. Having a 19% crit rate isn't bad. I'd like to
get it higher and have plans to do so.
> Unless we're talking about trivial mobs, I've never found a way to
> hold just heal agro against say 4 elites without pulling out all my
> warrior's tricks. There's just too much damage coming in that has to
> be healed. It's actually working out better for our group to let my
> warrior handle 3 while everyone else concentrates on the 4th.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Let the MA peel it and everyone
melt while you dance with the others. Then, they come back and peel
another one and you dance with the remaining 2. That's how it's
supposed to work.
> Do druids ever get a true AoE taunt or just their version of
> demoralizing shout?
No, we get both. We have Challenging Roar. Does the exact same thing as
Challenging Shout. Same cooldown and everything. Supposedly, taunts
resets aggro, so I'm careful to not spam it as a crutch. I certainly
don't use it as a tool to maintain aggro, which is the biggest mistake
I see made.
> The warrior always has the option to pop out of defensive and hit
> mocking blow, it's a longer cooldown than taunt but it's also much
> better when it lands since it locks the target on your for 5(?)
> seconds. If that fails, you have a true AoE taunt (on a 10 minute
> cooldown though). ... but usually revenge will light up somewhere in
> there and that can pretty much overcome any heal agro.
I loved tanking as a Druid so much that I rolled a Warrior. So I do
have some basis for personal comparison. If I lose aggro on a mob after
I've taunted it, I'll hit 'em with a 5 second stun, which gives me
plenty of time to get their attention. I try to reserve the AoE taunt
for when multiple Elites have strayed.
The one thing that I find irritating with a Warrior is that you have so
*many* tools in various stances that most of them feel like they go to
waste and it doesn't occur to me to use something that would be
helpful...Mocking Blow, for example. Granted, I'm only level 40, so I'm
sure it'll improve with time. The thing I like about tanking as a bear
is that it's very simple. I have one bar of attacks to use. When I'm
frantically trying to control a situation, I'm not fighting extra
keystrokes and a dizzying array of tools. Taunt it. Discouraging Roar
it. Faerie Fire it. Stun it. Maul it. Swipe it and two of its closest
friends. Maul it. Swipe it and.... You get the idea.
> If that regen has the same taunt as a real heal, that might well be
> what I'm missing. I can see where hitting that early in a bad fight
> (before your healer heals you) could do an excellent job of locking
> the mobs on you.
Yeah, it does a pretty good job.
> I haven't had many chances to group with a tanking druid so I'll admit
> that I might be wrong about them. Maybe the few I grouped with just
> didn't know their job very well, it's hard enough to find a good
> tanking warrior, which was the main reason I started one.
Very, very true. I've been on runs where the Warrior asked me to be the
MT because it was obvious I was better at it. For a simple job (keep
mobs beating on you and protect the healers/casters) it's a LOT of hard
work. It takes the proper gear and a lot of player skill. I don't doubt
that you've experienced some druids that thought they were some divine
gift to the tanking world and couldn't protect the clothies to safe his
life. I've experienced it with warriors, too. The factor that really
counts is that a Druid has to work harder at it than a warrior. Lack of
skill will become obivous really quickly.
> I always called that the 'death loop' but that was from the
> perspective of our alliance group that had a druid main healing up to
> 60 and a paladin tanking. Once the druid went into self-heal mode, we
> usually couldn't grab agro back before it was too late.
That's a limitation of the Paladin, not the Druid. A good warrior will
pull them off of me as soon as they see the help message. If that
doesn't happen, I'll run past the warrior, self healing only what's
necessary, hoping he can catch them on the way past. A true tank such
as a warrior or a Druid bear have the taunts to handle that situation.
A paladin really doesn't.
> They have more ways to wipe a group than any other class. ... and as
> you mentioned, the fact that they can easily solo up to 60 doesn't
> help matters. The good hunters do have a lot of ways to help a group
> and I love grouping with hunters that I know and trust.
As do, I. A player that knows his role within the group and plays it
well is fun to run with. I've made a habit of putting good hunters on
my friends list so I know who to go look for when I have a spot to
fill.
> The fact that anyone can solo to 60 doesn't help matters when it comes
> to finding competent groups in WoW. It's pretty easy to spot the
> difference between someone who grew up soloing or grouping in
> instances.
Absolutely agreed.
Regards,
Noal
--
Dharzhak - Night Elf Druid (60) on Stormrage
Kemwer - Tauren Warrior (40) on Stormrage
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