A powerful workstation design looking for a few good man!

cemster

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Hello everyone..

A LITTLE ABOUT ME
Organically speaking, I am adequately matured, otherwise relentlessly foolish 'young' musician. I use the word 'young' with precaution hence the low level of testosterone and highly level of wisdom crumbs accumulated over the course of years along with handsome amount of experience and necessaries to make music. However due to predicaments of life, sadly I pretty much failed to accommodate my inner demands and became a film maker for shorts and a screenwriter for TV instead, and got severed myself from music...

Many years later as my bowels became more conformist and I became very aware of my culpability, I realized that I have to correct at least one of these situations. So I decided that I can fart as much as I want given that I can start to make music again... Okay now that you have a bit insight about me I should come terms with my suffocating future...

This is going to be my first serious attempt to put a system together...
Although I wanted to make one for over ten years, I kept putting off my desire based on the worries of the upcoming Intel upgrades that were always in the horizon... Yes! The technology was never good enough for me! :) Yes! It is a sickness but I am in control of the sickness now... :na:

Finally when I was ready, I realized that I was a bit outdated with my system knowledge... And when I say a bit, I mean enormously... Thus I began researching and researching finally to realize just the basics, the elementary.
That's why I am here today hopping that your expertise and wisdom would save me from lots of afterwards pain...

MY GOAL
I would like to build a Workstation Rig that is mute! "0" DB is going to be my main objective...
(Please don't laugh! And if you have to do it, do it with compassion... )
The work load of the Rig will be VIDEO/AUDIO production with as many virtual and physical OSs as machinely possible... Not to mention I would like to have at least three monitors...

My MOBO/CPU COMBO
ASUS P9X79 WS / INTEL i7-3960X

RAM
For RAM I will have Corsair 64GB (8x8GB) 1600MHz

CASE
For the Case I like to get the COOLER MASTER COSMOS II PURE BLACK ALUMINYUM FULL TOWER
Lian Li PC-A77 was an option and I really wanted the MAGNUM TH10 ( Who wouldn't?) But can't get those ones where I live.. I need a case that would accommodate TWO PSUs and still be very roomy fo WC & HDDs.

PSU
At first I was planning to get a Koolance 1000W Liq[/u]uid-Cooled Power Supply...
But 1000W wasn't going to do it and unfortunately or fortunately 1200W &1600W models are discontinued so are1300W &1700W models. Not very assuring..

So I decided to get two PSUs...
If the Liquid-Cooled Fanless Power Supply is not a mistake of choice then I can get one Koolance 1000W and one Koolance 500W and call it a day...

The other attractive solution is a TWIN Corsair AX1200i Digital ATX Power Supply...

I also heard that Seasonic SSP-650RT Active PFC is pretty quiet as well.

The reason behind for two PSUs is the fanless operational capability of the Corsair unless a certain workload is reached. So two of them sharing the load, will reduce the PSU's need to ventilate... Obviously I will have to do some alterations to the case to accommodate the twin PSUs...

GPU
This is another taffy. After lots of reading and comparing I came up with few ideas which belong to other people... Pathetic really... The only sure thing I know is my multi-monitoring ambition... Now I know that I will not go with SLI setup because I don't need to...

QUADRO 4000 is the Video Guys' DIY 2012 top choice...

Of course the best combination would be to have best of both of the worlds.
So maybe as a second GPU one of these ...

GForce GTX 580 3GB
GForce GTX 590
GForce GTX 670
GForce GTX 680

EVGA GeForce GTX 670 4GB Superclocked+ w/Backplate ???

I am not going to pretend like I know much about GPUs except that I know I will not use SLI and I need a QUADRO card for serious HD video editing...

I'm obviously not going much for a gaming rig here... Having said that I was a game designer back in the days... Does anybody remember a game called Magic Candle? Don't feel bad if you don't! Well let me put it this way, my Rig was consist of x486 Intel processor! Can you say "Aga, Gugu" ?! Dos and 3,5 inch floppy disks were a must! I remember how amazed I was with the velocity that the 'DIR' command being executed!!!

Having subjected you to all to this nostalgic crap, I would like to address a little fantasy of mine. And that is to have a decent GPU muscle that can chew and handle some serious game tasting if I really wanted to. That’s the idea behind the best of both of the worlds...

WATER COOLING
My obsession with Water cooling is not because of OC possibilities but because of less audibility and obviously better cooling capability it possesses...

For the water cooling scenarios, I realized that the most important issue for me, would be a long lasting WC system that would not need maintenance too often... And the second achievement should be the simplicity in doing so. Like carefree liquid filling and easy plug/unplug capabilities with the tubes and quick disconnects couplings.. So that I don't have to drain the system when I make any changes or replacements and upgrades and so forth so on...

Also ideally I would have love to build a WC system that the Pomp and reservoir units is placed outside of the Case. And preferably far enough from the machine so that I don't have to hear any of the fans...

Still, I presume I will have to have some fans in the case no matter what. At least to exhaust the heat that might accumulate in the case. If there is any way not to need any fan, PLEASE LET ME KNOW HOW...

FANS
So if it is a must, then I would love to have the most silent fans available to me... I checked many reviews and forums for that but I cannot get a clear view to figure out... So this is an area that I need your experience for sure...

That brings us to open loops versus stuff like Corsair H100 and alike... Now, I believe that I do want a real WC operation in my machine, unless that totally crashes with my little maintenance and longest longevity possible objectives... Having said that I did a lot of reading throughout the forums and various sources... So I have names! I have a few of them alright.. But do I feel I know what I need? Hardly... Here are some candidates for basic water cooling members... I have them purely because other people seem to like them, not because I have any idea... I only did a statistical work...

CPU BLOCKS
Enzotech Sapphire
Heatkiller 3.0 LT

PUMPS
MCP655
Laing DDC 3.25

Swiftech MCR-320 Drive Rev3 Series Heat Exchanger w/ Pump and Reservoir... ???

RADS
Hardware Labs Black Ice GT Xtreme 360mm

And there is also a Radiator/Pump/Reservoir combos like:
Aquacomputer Airplex Modularity System 240 Radiator / Pump / Reservoir Combo - Copper Fins - D5 Pump
Aquacomputer Airplex Modularity System 360 Radiator / Pump / Reservoir Combo - Copper Fins - D5 Pump
Aquacomputer Airplex Modularity System 420 Radiator / Pump / Reservoir Combo - Copper Fins - Eheim Compact 600/12V Pump

So at the moment I have no idea what kind of capacity my rig will require...
BUT
Incidentally I want a loop for everything... For GPU, PSU, RAM!, MOBO... North, south, east, west... Perhaps in the end consequently for my ass too!
Did I conduct a research for them? Yes I did! But this is not very different then searching for a friend by going through The City Phone Directory... Lots of phone numbers but no one to call... :)
So this is another poor areas of my intellect... I can add that I don't care for beauty aspect of the system. Like if Clamps means more to me I won't care how they look... I don't want it to be ugly as hell but if that's what it takes, so be it...

CHIPSET BLOCKS
HEATKILLER MB Chipset Cooling Kit ASUS-P9X79 Nickel
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/hembchcokita.html

MOTHERBOARD HEATSINKS
Zalman ZM-NBF47

RAM BLOCKS
RAM-33 Water Block (Memory)
http://koolance.com/ram-33-memory-water-block

GeIL EVO Cyclone Memory Cooler

Also I was advised not to put a complex water loop together until a system has been thoroughly tested. Always spend a week or so on air cooling before starting to add water blocks.
So that notion presents more hurtle to me... Fans! Lots of them probably! We will see about that...

Okay... So that's a lot of question to ask not to mention a lot of questions to answer! I apologize for that but desperate times need desperate measurements... And boy am I desperate!...

Obviously there will be some aspiring enthusiasts and hopefully some experienced specialist and if I am lucky even a few wizards and if I am really really really fortunate a Yoda will come to rescue me from agony of making the wrong decisions and thus eliminate serious afterwards crying...

Thank you for even reading through... Seriously if you made this far, yet there is hope for me :))

I appreciate your efforts to help and thank you for your willingness to put up with my idiocrasy before hand...
Cheers...
 

cemster

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Jul 24, 2012
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Thank you for your replay. I would appreciate if you could elaborate a little bit more though...

 
1: why would you want dual power supplies? you cant even run 2 cpus at once since x79 doesnt support that.
2: if it is a workstation, get a quadro 6000 but they are loud under load

if you are looking for a watercooled system, go look at the watercooling section of the forum and people will help you out

if you need to contact someone, id go to youtube or facebook and search up singularity computers and give him a message (private message or just comment on his videos).
 

cemster

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Thank you for your replay.. The reason behind for two PSUs is to allow Very low fan spin operation. Shared workload would allow me to boost the machine. Two of them sharing the load, will reduce the PSU's need to ventilate... Yes there is a way to use 2x PSUs in X70...

Thank you for the tip about singularity computers and posting at WC section..
 

rishiswaz

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For the watercooling you can have it a bit more simple by having the rad, pump, and res in one like a Koolance Exos 2, it has been serving me well and I like Koolance in general for their stuff. Also I agree with the Quadro 6000 over the 4000, and I do like AMD FirePro but that is because the 1 workstation I have I need Eyefinity not really CUDA so if you are using a lot of Adobe software or any of the other software that supports Nvidia hardware acceleration CUDA is the way to go but if you do not really need it and would prefer larger monitor size via Eyefinity or have a program with APP (AMD Parallel Processing) or OpenCL then go with AMD.
 

idroid

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i really liked your story...it seems like an interesting case so i am interested :sol: (fell lucky)

i am definitely gonna help you with this but there are a few things i will like you to know/answer first:

*Forget about getting a PC that will last you 10 Years.... not even the best hardware in the world (right now) will be "good-enough" in five years.

*An i7 3960x IS NOT worth the money, it will give a 1-2% improvement over the 3930k for 500$ MORE!... the 3930k is a much better CPU BUT.... given the kind of tasks you will be doing you might want to consider a Xeon CPU (if your budget allows it)

*a GTX 6xx GPU IS NOT GOOD for editing/rendering... a 7970 has FOUR TIMES the GPGPU power of a GTX 680 for almost 100$ less but if the apps you will use support CUDA a quaddro card might be your best bet.

*Watercooling doesn't mean quietness... depending on what you want to cool it might be a little loud (but regular air cooling will be 10 times louder) so MUST buy rubber silencers and some sound absorbing foam to sound-proof your case

*RAMs produce NO sound so there is absolutely no need to watercool them.

*Do you care about aesthetics?

*whats your budget?

*if sound is your concern but not cooling performance you might want to consider a OIL COOLED PC.... an oil cooled PC is basically a PC placed (most of the time) inside of an aquarium and filled with oil (oil is not conductive so there is no need to isolate anything) this is mostly used so reduce the sound of PCs by a LOT, watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtufuXLvOok

*1000W of power is extremely overkill for a system that will easily work on a 500w PC
 

rishiswaz

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Yeah RAM heatsinks IMO only waste time on the loop and are for extreme RAM OC, so if you are not overclocking the RAM to very high speeds you do not need it.
 

idroid

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Heat is not a crucial factor when overclocking RAM...
 

rishiswaz

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Well when you overclock your RAM to 3000+ like on the new ASRock Z77 board I would imagine that it produces quite a bit of heat
 
yeah but there is like zero performance gain with 3000+ mhz ram

as for the psu, most psu s have very quiet fans so i dont see the point of having 2. you are just reducing efficency if you dont make the 2 units work at 50%
 

idroid

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IF you can overclock it.... most RAM dimms are HIGHLY unstable past 2200MHz and only the HIGHEST quality ones can reach 2400mhz+ and lets be honest.... anything beyond 1600mhz will have VERY little effect in the overall performance of the PC
 

rishiswaz

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well I mean practically you are never going to have your CPU at 6+ GHz but people pull out the LN2 and the liquid helium to show that they can and they will try.
 

g-unit1111

Titan
Moderator
*An i7 3960x IS NOT worth the money, it will give a 1-2% improvement over the 3930k for 500$ MORE!... the 3930k is a much better CPU BUT.... given the kind of tasks you will be doing you might want to consider a Xeon CPU (if your budget allows it)

Especially when you take into account that with some creative overclocking you can have the 3930K match or beat the 3960X's advertised speeds. Not worth it if you ask me.

QUADRO 4000 is the Video Guys' DIY 2012 top choice...

Keep in mind that the Quaddro 4000 is only for professional editing and rendering apps. If you plan to play any sort of games then that won't be an option. Also keep in mind that NVIDIA is planning to update the Quaddro based around the Keppler platform in the next couple of months.

Well when you overclock your RAM to 3000+ like on the new ASRock Z77 board I would imagine that it produces quite a bit of heat

Yeah that can seriously be quite dangerous when you reach those speeds. The memory multiplier is only meant to handle so much and can't take over a certain limit or risk frying your whole build.

*if sound is your concern but not cooling performance you might want to consider a OIL COOLED PC.... an oil cooled PC is basically a PC placed (most of the time) inside of an aquarium and filled with oil (oil is not conductive so there is no need to isolate anything) this is mostly used so reduce the sound of PCs by a LOT, watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtufuXLvOok

Interesting - I've never heard of oil cooled PCs before - I shall have to investigate this.

That brings us to open loops versus stuff like Corsair H100 and alike... Now, I believe that I do want a real WC operation in my machine, unless that totally crashes with my little maintenance and longest longevity possible objectives... Having said that I did a lot of reading throughout the forums and various sources... So I have names! I have a few of them alright.. But do I feel I know what I need? Hardly... Here are some candidates for basic water cooling members... I have them purely because other people seem to like them, not because I have any idea... I only did a statistical work...

If you want a real water cooling operation then the H100 isn't going to cut it. To use the comparison from Breaking Bad last week - using an H100 vs. a real liquid loop is like grade school t-ball vs. the New York Yankees. :lol:
 
Well, glad I came by. I can help with most of this.

First up, when designing a water cooling system there is an element of experience that cannot be supplemented with knowledge. I read your list and immediately wondered, "How is that going to work?" I suggest you head over to the build logs section here:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=70
and look for similar builds. You can dream about any parts you like, but when it all goes together you will always encounter obstacles.... I recommend building the PC first then adding the water cooling. Take it in steps, because doing it all at once will be overwhelming unless you have a lot of practice.

There is no such thing as 0 Decibels of course. Even in the absence of all fans you would still have small buzzes or whines, just not audible at a normal distance.

Your strategy for water cooling and low noise is sound. This is NOT done primarily through careful fan selection.... it is done with low RPM fans, and lots of them. The more radiator space you have the quieter the system is, but that also means more fans.
I'm guessing you already have this link:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/

You are right of course, the Case Labs cases are best suited for this. I use one myself.

Because you need a lot of rad space, consider an external enclosure. They can be built. You could also route the tubes through a wall into another room, if you really want quiet. Use quick disconnects.

Now onto the power. This idea of massive overkill on the power needs to go. Let me list some of my parts:

2600K sometimes overclocked
5870 (Uses more power than most new cards) sometimes overclocked
HDD
SDD
14 fans
1 pump
Seasonic X650

The only time my PSU fan ever spins is a half turn as the power comes on, just to let me know it can. The total power draw of my system from the wall right now is 82W. While gaming it's in the high 200's and under full synthetic stress tests it's in the mid 300s. Actual power draws on the PSU are less, due to efficiency.
(I use a Kill-a-watt meter)

I can't say what the best CPU for you is, unless I know what programs you will use. You should know that the way the software is designed dictates how many cores will be used and how many will be optimum. Unless your programs are heavily mullti-threaded your best bet will be Ivy Bridge.

You also need to be very certain about the Quadro. As far as I know, you only need a workstation card for CAD and 3D work. Make sure you are getting good advise there and not just some clueless engineers throwing money around with no benefits. Demand hard evidence that your work will actually benefit. Did I miss some reference? Is there a link with benchmarks?

You may not benefit from the workstation card in editing, but it will certainly hurt any gaming plans. I cannot think of a single thread I have dealt with in recent years, where the person wanted to edit 2D and game, that the solution was not a gaming card.

I do agree with the res/pump combo. Be very careful with this though. The wrong one can cause much grief. Oil cooling is a nice experiment and not practical for anything. It's the kind of thing your company puts in the lobby as a novelty.






 
True, I was considering Koolance myself, when I needed one.

I just saw the bit about RAM. The memory controller of the newer Intel CPUs is VERY susceptible to damage from overclocked RAM. This is not like the old days when the memory controller was separate in the northbridge.

If you end up using memory clocked higher than 1600Mhz with Ivy Bridge, make very sure you have Intel tweaking insurance.
http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/
 
It's not about the RAM voltage, it's about that voltage to the RAM controller. A separate issue.
This is why Intel is very clear about allowed frequencies and timings with their new CPUs, and why tech support will ask specifically when you call for a CPU RMA.
 
Here is the marketing
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/gaming-computers/intel-extreme-memory-profile-xmp.html

And here is the fine print at the bottom:

1. Warning: Altering clock frequency and/or voltage may: (i) reduce system stability and useful life of the system, processor, and other system components; (ii) cause the processor and other system components to fail; (iii) cause reductions in system performance; (iv) cause additional heat or other damage; and (v) affect system data integrity. Intel has not tested, and does not warranty, the operation of the processor beyond its specifications. Intel has not tested, and does not warranty, the operation of other system components beyond their industry standard specifications. Intel assumes no responsibility that the processor and other system components, including if used with altered clock frequencies and/or voltages, will be fit for any particular purpose.

If you go to the actual Intel support site you can find PDF docs that specifically state what the actual limits are for different processor families. SB is 1333Mhz, IB is 1600Mhz. I think both are CL9. I honestly don't know about LGA 2011 CPUs, but I think it's the same.

Here:
http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/datasheets/3rd-gen-core-desktop-vol-1-datasheet.pdf
Actually much clearer and more informative than it used to be. Memory stuff starts on page 21.
 

cemster

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Thank you all for stopping by I appreciate your ideas very much...

@Rishiswaz
Koolance EX2-755 (Exos-2 V2) Liquid Cooling System, Aluminum

Koolance EX2-1055 (Exos-2.5) Liquid Cooling System, Aluminum

So there are these two options which do you think is better for me?

Adobe it is... So I do need CUDA... A problem with Quadro that it only supports two displays.. I'd like to have at least three... And that's why I am wondering if can I have Quadro 4000 working along with a FirePro V7900. Since FirePro supports up to four displays, and it would be just great for games as well... But it is highly unlikely that they would sit together without any dispute... So GPU needs further figuring out!

As far as Quadro 6000 goes, of course it is an incredible piece of electronic with 6GB 384bit specs and $3,998.00 price! My budget, is around $5.000... So there you go...

@idroid
Thank you for taking interest..
*Forget about getting a PC that will last you 10 Years....
Well I guess you misunderstood me... The ten years was representing how long I was planning to build a powerful PC. Because I was never satisfied with the present technology and I was constantly wrapped up in Intel's upcoming upgrades, future developments I kept putting it off... Until now! :heink:

I use CS6 so I need CUDA.. But its two display limits pushes me to use a secondary card... A FirePro V7900 would have been great but I have no knowledge if they would work together in piece... FirePor has four display capability and would play games as well ;) There are options like to leave Quadro unconnected to external displays and is only used for processing, while another GPU can handle displays. So one card for CUDA and one for GUI... This needs further figuring out! I will also be using Blackmagicdesign DeckLink 4K and DeckLink HD Extreme 3D...

In the beginning I had INTEL E5-2687W & Asus Z9PE-D8 WS in my mind. But those are priced out of this world around here and if I get them from US and anything goes wrong with them I will have a serious problem since I cannot use mail (custom taxes) and I don't have luxury to go back and forth more than once a year really... Also I cut back my budget So that's why I settled for i7... But now I'm considering maybe to get a single E5-2687W... Not entirely sure though...

*Water cooling doesn't mean quietness...
So I hear.. :) I am looking into Koolance Exos-2 V2 or Exos-2,5 as Rishiswaz kindly suggested...
My idea to place them out side of the room so loose the noise in the process...

I MUST buy rubber silencers and some sound absorbing foam to sound-proof your case... Like you mentioned...
I have not checked my options on that yet but I will... I will need further suggestions on that...

The oil PC is some crazy sh*t, looks weird and scary... But very intriguing... But I doubt that is for me though...
And probably it is not so good for HDDs... But that's not really something I wanna be worrying about...

I gave up on RAM & MOBO cooling...

I do not care about the aesthetics. I am not praying for ugly but I care about efficiency, practicality and functionality first.. Then if I have choices of white or purple I'd go for purple... :sol:

I have about $5Gs for this project...

@g-unit1111
The Quadro K5000 (with Kepler) is a great card no doubt. Allowing 4 display controllers, PCI-Express 3.0 support, and much faster processing with many improvements for $2249... Yet it is going to be available in October which sadly a date I cannot wait for...

The New York Yankees it is then... :D

@Proximon
Thank you for stopping by, I appreciate it...

I have of course checked lots of threads in Xtremesystem.org that's how I mostly educated myself. But they are to advanced for me to even grasp the ideas... But I've learned some pointers... Basics and some terminology.. Just enough to put together my questions...

About the “0DB”, Well obviously that is a myth... :pt1cable: However, in my old studio I had the opportunity to open a hole on the wall and put the PC in the closet room and seal the hole after sticking all the cables through... That was like reaching Nirvana... It was a bliss, a joy... NO NOISE! from the case what so ever ... But now I've moved to home and I don't have such a room to expel the case... So with 0DB I wanted to project how strong my desire was... I do have a balcony next to my office room and I wouldn't mind to put the noisy WC components out there though... I can make a box for it, for rainy days and stuff…

There is also an alternative suggestion from overclock.net. Using a passive radiator cooling... I have to learn about that yet...

I've missed the silentpcreview.com so I have to check that out. Thank you for that... I have been checking the endpcnoise.com but I believe it's weaker than silentpcreview at first glance... So after I finish posting this I'll be heading there...

“Because you need a lot of rad space, consider an external enclosure. They can be built.”
Hallelujah for that.. :) And I gladly admit I need sound suggestions on the topic...

I am sure I need more than 650W... I need to power up at least two GPUs... Quadro 4000 can only support two monitors, I'd like to have at least three... So I will figure out if there is any way to have a FirePro V7900 along with a Quadro. That would be so great. Since FirePro supports up to four displays but I have my doubts...
Not to mention, I will be using two more cards from Blackmagicdesign. DeckLink 4K and DeckLink HD Extreme 3D...

I was thinking to get Corsair AX1200i Digital ATX Power Supply. I know it is over kill but unless a certain workload is reached like %40, fans won’t spin at all on Corsair... That was my genius plan :kaola:
I gave up on Koolence 1000Watt WC PSU... Since it is an older PSU technology wise... I did learned that the Seasonic SSP-650RT Active PFC is pretty quiet... I wonder if I could get 750W Seasonic with same specs and if 750W would be enough for me... Also this is the second time I've heard Kill-a-watt meter and I want to add it to my shopping list now...

Quadro is pretty much essential for me because of CUDA. CS5 supports it heavily... It is an industry standard for Adobe stuff... And I am also considering a single E5-2687W as oppose to i7. Originally I wanted to have double Xeon but then I cut the budget in half...

"You may not benefit from the workstation card in editing!"
You don't like my MOBO?

I have to figure out the res/pump combo since I know Jack sh*t about it... "Exos 2" seems a good advice though...

I don't think I am much keen on Ivy bridge tell you the truth.. Even considering that would put me out of track for months..

As far as pushing the ram over 1600MHz is pointless to me... For X79 platform 1600Mhz is unmistakably THE sweet spot.. As long as you don't OC your CPU I guess...

For a month I stumbled all around the forums in agony... And just I thought I started to figure things out, I feel like am in hell again... :cry: I hope I can build this *&^*^ before the world ends on me... You know!

Again, thank you putting up with me and with my miles long posts.. I can’t even begin to express my gratitude… Thank you all…