I7 3930k vs i7 2600k, OC AIR! Help.

[irlwizard]

Edit: Made a mistake in the title. It should be i7 3770k vs 2600k. Sorry! =)

Hello. I am helping a friend put together a PC. Since the difference between the Sandy and Ivy seems very minimal when overclocked on air I adviced my friend to go for a cheap PC now and spend a lot on a haswell later. But the friend insists on i7 processor.

Now, we have already decided on the GFX card. $300.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125440

and Intel 520 SSD (size not decided, probably 180GB).

I was leaning toward buying an i7 2600k BUT the GFX card is PCI Express 3.0 x16. Do any Z68 mobos have PCIe 3.0? I checked out the award winning ASUS Maximus IV Extreme Z, and it does not.

Q1) Will using that card in a PCIe 2.0 slot, slow down its performance (I was reading before that you lose about 5% performnce).
Q2) Do cheap and reliable i7 2600k mobos with PCIe 3.0 exist?
Q3) What overclocks and runs better on air. Ivy Bridge or Sandy Bridge? And how big is the difference.

I have been out of the game for a while so I don´t know anything about Ivy except that it has problems with temperatures.
Budget is $1000-1250. US part prices.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[TheBigTroll]

ivy bridge doesnt have problems with temps unless you crank the voltages above 1.3v. heres what i would get. if he is gaming, this would be better

get a i5 3570k. getting a i7 is pretty much useless unless you do CAD, video rendering, and work

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/fHCz

it offers room for future SLI

 

[malbluff]

Q1) There is a small difference. I wouldn't argue with your figure.
Q2) No. PCIe 3.0 needs Ivybridge, to actually get that boost.
Q3) Depends what you mean by better. In terms of the frequency you can acheive, without destroying processor, Sandybridge would probably win. However, Ivybridge starts with a better performance, which equates to about a 0.2 GHz "headstart", the REAL difference in terms of performance, at max overclock, for each, is actually quite small.

 

[moornix]

+1 TheBigTroll

Aside from that, I believe you mean to compare the i7 3770k vs 2600k. The 3930k is a Sandy Bridge-E CPU that costs over $500 and fits into the LGA 2011 socket, which would require a X79 motherboard.

 

[TheBigTroll]

there is a minimal performance difference between the i7 3770k and the 2600k in terms of regular gaming performance. the biggest performance increase would be quick sync which from what i know is around 30% faster and the intergrated GPU is about 30% faster as well (not that it matters much in games)

 

[redeemer]

My suggestion is always buy the latest tech, if you have your heart set on an i7 then go for an 3770k with a z77 board. Sandy E is a waste unless your doing 3-4 way sli

 

[blade of grass]

My suggestion is always buy the latest tech, if you have your heart set on an i7 then go for an 3770k with a z77 board. Sandy E is a waste unless your doing 3-4 way sli

Or you do lots of video rendering/photo editing.

 

[jerm1027]

Hello. I am helping a friend put together a PC. Since the difference between the Sandy and Ivy seems very minimal when overclocked on air I adviced my friend to go for a cheap PC now and spend a lot on a haswell later. But the friend insists on i7 processor.

Now, we have already decided on the GFX card. $300.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125440

and Intel 520 SSD (size not decided, probably 180GB).

I was leaning toward buying an i7 2600k BUT the GFX card is PCI Express 3.0 x16. Do any Z68 mobos have PCIe 3.0? I checked out the award winning ASUS Maximus IV Extreme Z, and it does not.

Q1) Will using that card in a PCIe 2.0 slot, slow down its performance (I was reading before that you lose about 5% performnce).
Q2) Do cheap and reliable i7 2600k mobos with PCIe 3.0 exist?
Q3) What overclocks and runs better on air. Ivy Bridge or Sandy Bridge? And how big is the difference.

I have been out of the game for a while so I don´t know anything about Ivy except that it has problems with temperatures.
Budget is $1000-1250. US part prices.

Thanks for all the help.

I've read about a 5% performance hit from going PCI-e 16x to PCI-e 4x when investigating SLI/Crossfire on 1155 platforms. It demonstrates that PCI-e 2 bandwidth isn't even being utilized, so PCI-e 3 is only for bragging rights. I'd just get the 2600k because Sandy Bridge overclocks better (4.2GHz vs 4.8GHz). Actually, if the rig is for gaming, I'd opt for a 2500k, or other Sandy Bridge i5.

 

[TheBigTroll]

4.2ghz, thats kinda bull right there. it will hit 4.5ghz but after that, it gets too hot due to the extra voltage. at 4.5-4.6ghz it should perform like the sandy bridge at 4.8ghz.

you do get a large increase in performance with quick sync on the i5 3570k compared to the i5 2500k

 

[jerm1027]

4.2ghz, thats kinda bull right there. it will hit 4.5ghz but after that, it gets too hot due to the extra voltage. at 4.5-4.6ghz it should perform like the sandy bridge at 4.8ghz.

you do get a large increase in performance with quick sync on the i5 3570k compared to the i5 2500k

Really? you must have missed this article:

As we proceeded in our overclocking efforts, regardless of whether we used a higher core voltage or not, we observed something frustrating: even below 4.5 GHz, our Ivy Bridge-based Core i7-3770K began thermal throttling. That is to say it reduced its clock rate in order to bring its temperature down. In other words, our overclocked -3770K was already running too hot, even at its default voltage setting.

Core Temp 1.0 RC3 reports that our Core i7-3770K reaches 90-100°C (194-212°F) internally when it's overclocked to 4.5 GHz. No wonder the chip's thermal monitor tripped, throttling the CPU. This phenomenon dropped the effective clock rate of our chip to approximately 3.5 GHz, corresponding to the CPU’s nominal frequency.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ivy-bridge-overclocking-core-i7-3770k,3198-2.html

Ivy Bridge at 4.5GHz put up higher temps than the six-core Sandy Bridge-E at 4.7GHz. Ivy bridge sucks at overclocking.

 

[TheBigTroll]

every chip is different. pretty sure he reached 4.7ghz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCIWTX-jy9A

 

[jerm1027]

every chip is different. pretty sure he reached 4.7ghz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCIWTX-jy9A

He reached 4.6GHz, on a closed loop water cooling unit, and still hit 85. I'm not sure if you missed the part of the all caps AIR! cooling in the title. The article I posted used an Arctic Cooler Freezer 13 which is a bit more realistic and closer to the needs of the OP.

 

[TheBigTroll]

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/276084-29-cooler-3570k

 

[jerm1027]

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/276084-29-cooler-3570k

Linus used an H70 which has a larger surface area, in addition to using a push/pull config. Seriously dude, the H70 Push/Pull is significantly better than a stock H60.

Also, 85 is way too high for every day temp. 3770k temp is spec'd at 67.4c.
http://ark.intel.com/products/65523/Intel-Core-i7-3770K-Processor-%288M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz%29

The 2600k is spec'd at 72.6. So in addition to running cooler overclocked, Sandy Bridge also has higher thermal tolerance.
http://ark.intel.com/products/52214/Intel-Core-i7-2600K-Processor-%288M-Cache-up-to-3_80-GHz%29

 

[TheBigTroll]

bro, fudoka711 got 57c after 9 hrs of prime95 on his 3570k at 4.4ghz with a hyper 212

 

[irlwizard]

"i7 3770k vs 2600k" oh ya that is correct.

The CPU cooler you found in the list is very interesting for that price.
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2655&page=5

Almost as good as my Noctua C14. But the thing I like about the C14 is that it blows DOWN, cooling the mobo as well.

As for SSD. I think 520 cherryville is the best option here because that is the only thing my friend will be saving if he ends up taking the SSD out and selling the PC a month before haswell release. But very good list.

As for PSU I only trust 3 brands on a OC system. Seaonic, Corsair and Antec.

I made some changes to the list I´ll post it here. Let me know what you think.
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/fWgT
750W PSU would leave room for future SLI. But I might edit that one later if I find something cheaper. Have to look up reviews of ripple and vdroop. But I have a 750W Seasonic and it has served me very well. xD

The GFX I found and linked is actually faster and cheaper then the 670 version, pretty sad. xD
http://www.guru3d.com/article/gigabyte-geforce-gtx-660-ti-windforce-oc-review/26

PS: I don´t count the OS in the final sum. My friend can buy a cheap key from collage. But lets include it just for laughs.

 

[jerm1027]

bro, fudoka711 got 57c after 9 hrs of prime95 on his 3570k at 4.4ghz with a hyper 212

What were the ambient temps? Case? voltage? Thermal compound. I've gotten 62 on my 2500k with a Dark Knight (I'd argue the 212 is a better cooler due to heatpipe count) at 4.6GHz in the middle of winter with a fresh application of thermal grease, but I'm flirting with 70 now at 4.2Ghz on the same system right now because my room is hotter than the devils a**hole.

 

[TheBigTroll]

well obviously he wasnt running it in the middle of winter because he posted it in may.with a fresh application of thermal grease, he would only get a 3-4c max reduction

 

[TheBigTroll]

"i7 3770k vs 2600k" oh ya that is correct.

The CPU cooler you found in the list is very interesting for that price.
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2655&page=5

Almost as good as my Noctua C14. But the thing I like about the C14 is that it blows DOWN, cooling the mobo as well.

As for SSD. I think 520 cherryville is the best option here because that is the only thing my friend will be saving if he ends up taking the SSD out and selling the PC a month before haswell release. But very good list.

As for PSU I only trust 3 brands on a OC system. Seaonic, Corsair and Antec.

I made some changes to the list I´ll post it here. Let me know what you think.
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/fWgT
750W PSU would leave room for future SLI. But I might edit that one later if I find something cheaper. Have to look up reviews of ripple and vdroop. But I have a 750W Seasonic and it has served me very well. xD

The GFX I found and linked is actually faster and cheaper then the 670 version, pretty sad. xD
http://www.guru3d.com/article/gigabyte-geforce-gtx-660-ti-windforce-oc-review/26

PS: I don´t count the OS in the final sum. My friend can buy a cheap key from collage. But lets include it just for laughs.

the 520 isnt worth it for the price. a samsung 830 is a better option

on a psu, you left out xfx. xfx provides a better value given its made by seasonic and most of their units are identical to corsair models (other than the fan). the tx series are the same as the xfx core series and the ax series are the same as the pro series from xfx. the hx are made by CWT but there was a refresh

 

[jerm1027]

well obviously he wasnt running it in the middle of winter because he posted it in may.with a fresh application of thermal grease, he would only get a 3-4c max reduction

The point is, ambient temps are critical factors. Comparing two different results without knowing the ambient temps of each is just like comparing apples and oranges. Winters in the bay area aren't particularly cold.

 

[TheBigTroll]

it wouldnt really change the fact that he could hit 4.4ghz with 60c if it was 20c. i highly doubt he would put himself under colder temps just to prove his point.

i live in a colder area so temps are no problem for me

 

[jerm1027]

it wouldnt really change the fact that he could hit 4.4ghz with 60c if it was 20c. i highly doubt he would put himself under colder temps just to prove his point.

i live in a colder area so temps are no problem for me

well considering room temp is 22-24, that would effect the temp of the OC, which, along with voltage, will affect the stability.

The underlying point is Sandy Bridge OC's much better than Ivy Bridge, all things equal. In a controlled environment, Toms proved it. Same temp, same cooler, same RAM, etc. There are also other articles from Anadtech, ExtremeTech, and any other tech review site indicating the same thing. If that guy could reach 60c with Ivy Bridge at 4.4GHz, I'd bet Sandy Bridge would reach 4.8GHz under the same conditions with similar temps.

 

[TheBigTroll]

yes i know it wont overclock as well but what is the point of reaching 4.8ghz when you can do fine with a 4.2 to 4.4 and not see a whole lot of a difference?

 

[jerm1027]

yes i know it wont overclock as well but what is the point of reaching 4.8ghz when you can do fine with a 4.2 to 4.4 and not see a whole lot of a difference?

The performance difference heavily depends on the application. All we know is the OP wants to OC, and SB provides the better Oc. If the application was web-browsing, you wouldn't see a lot of difference from a 4.8GHz i7 and a Celeron G530

 

[irlwizard]

the 520 isnt worth it for the price. a samsung 830 is a better option

on a psu, you left out xfx. xfx provides a better value given its made by seasonic and most of their units are identical to corsair models (other than the fan). the tx series are the same as the xfx core series and the ax series are the same as the pro series from xfx. the hx are made by CWT but there was a refresh

Thanks for the tip about xfx being built by Seasonic. I haven´t really looked into PC parts since the X58 mobo so it is always nice to be refreshed.

Samsung has bad write speeds, is a dirty pirate and price-fixing company. Plus, you can always trust intel software to be very good when they release better firmware for the SSD etc. I think it is worth it in the long run. =)


How many Ghz do you guys think I can hit on stable OC with i5 or i7 Ivy using the CM or Noctua C14 cooler.
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2655&page=5

e.g. for Ivy
i5 CM 4.2Ghz
i7 CM 4.4Ghz
i5 Noc 4.4Ghz
i7 Noc 4.6Ghz


Jerm1027 said PCIe3.0 is just for braging rights. Is this true? Almost every review I have seen show that, even tho GFX cards do not use up all the bandwith of PCIe2.0. They still get better results when slotted into PCIe3.0 slots. Maybe because of efficiency or something?