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N/G looting

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Anonymous
September 2, 2005 6:08:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

I was in a (noob) party where we had N/G (as I always ask for that). And
the lock was upset that he could not role on N items like mail and axes.
Then we wend to a system of typing n and g at every item, which I
thought was stupid and delaying. And I was told not to loot while the
battles were still in progress (makes sense, but also costs time,
especially when the battle has progressed to a point where a healer is
no longer needed and I can regen my mana).

I understand that the 1.7 patch will have a greed button (which I like).
I only loot low level monsters while in battle and left overs from
earlier battles (otherwise I end up falling behind my party as I am
often the last to loot, which is worse because I think mosts healers
work in the rear ranks of the party).

I want some 50+ levels opinion on all of this,
Thomas
--
Life is like a videogame with no chance to win - ATR

More about : looting

Anonymous
September 2, 2005 6:08:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Thomas J. Boschloo wrote:
> I was in a (noob) party where we had N/G (as I always ask for that). And
> the lock was upset that he could not role on N items like mail and axes.
> Then we wend to a system of typing n and g at every item, which I
> thought was stupid and delaying. And I was told not to loot while the
> battles were still in progress (makes sense, but also costs time,
> especially when the battle has progressed to a point where a healer is
> no longer needed and I can regen my mana).
>
> I understand that the 1.7 patch will have a greed button (which I like).
> I only loot low level monsters while in battle and left overs from
> earlier battles (otherwise I end up falling behind my party as I am
> often the last to loot, which is worse because I think mosts healers
> work in the rear ranks of the party).
>
> I want some 50+ levels opinion on all of this,
> Thomas

Need before greed is the only system that makes any sense. Roll on items you
need and not on items you don't. If nobody rolls then either decide who gets
the item, roll for it with /rand or all just take turns looting something to
sell. If you can't trust your group to do that properly then what on earth are
you doing grouping with them anyway?

Under no circumstances loot while a fight is in progress. There is nothing more
distracting than a loot box popping up while you are trying to fight, and even
then you might have to check your gear etc to see if you actually want the
item. People occasionally loot stuff during a fight by accident but I wouldn't
expect anyone to ever do it on purpose.
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 6:08:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Thomas J. Boschloo wrote:
> I want some 50+ levels opinion on all of this,

I find looting during fighting to be inconsiderate, and in
my view the number of seconds you save by doing it are more
than lost in after-battle arguments and wipes caused when
somebody gets distracted while they're still fighting and
you aren't. When I reach a point where I don't think I'll
need to heal any more I'll start pitching in a few moonfires.
What I will NOT do is anything that would even suggest that
I'm paying attention to anything other than my party's health
bars.

--
Nathan Engle Computer Support, IUB Psych Dept
nengle@indiana.edu http://mypage.iu.edu/~nengle
"Some Assembly Required"
Related resources
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Anonymous
September 2, 2005 6:17:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Thomas J. Boschloo wrote:
> I was in a (noob) party where we had N/G (as I always ask for that). And
> the lock was upset that he could not role on N items like mail and axes.
> Then we wend to a system of typing n and g at every item, which I
> thought was stupid and delaying. And I was told not to loot while the
> battles were still in progress (makes sense, but also costs time,
> especially when the battle has progressed to a point where a healer is
> no longer needed and I can regen my mana).
>
> I understand that the 1.7 patch will have a greed button (which I like).
> I only loot low level monsters while in battle and left overs from
> earlier battles (otherwise I end up falling behind my party as I am
> often the last to loot, which is worse because I think mosts healers
> work in the rear ranks of the party).
>
> I want some 50+ levels opinion on all of this,
> Thomas

1st and most important. NEVER LOOT MID-BATTLE. If I was group leader and
you did it more than once, I would kick you off my group. The reason? An
extra window appears at the middle of the screen, which :

a) Hides my heal bar (not everyone uses auto-cancel mods)
b) Restricts my view of the battle
c) Forces me and everyone else to look at the item and roll/pass/decide
who gets it. In Scarlet Monastery this is not a problem, do it in DM
West and you'll be dead before you read the item description.

The only place where you are allowed to mid-battle IMO is when there is
only a sheep/sapped guy left and you are in a hurry. Otherwise, take
your time. Most of the times in bigger instances the group stops anyway
for mana rests.

As for N/G rules, I believe that the only reasonable options are the
group roll or master looter (for boss fights). Other than that, lvl 60
groups always use the so-called "raid rules". That means:

1) Roll on all green BoE and if someone needs they can just ask afterwards
2) ALWAYS pass on set items of other class, even if you could use it
well. If everyone passes, then say you N.
3) ALWAYS pass on BoP items you cannot use, if everyone passes just do a
random /roll afterwards.
4) If there is a BoP item you can use but is destined for another class
(for example, if you are a druid and eye of rend drops), then ask the
"primary" class if they mind you rolling. Unless they really need or are
jerks, they should allow it.

5) Epics. These are a special case, but if you get mature groups they
will usually follow the above rules for epics too.

At least on my server (Silvermoon, EU), these are standard practices.
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 6:17:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

> a) Hides my heal bar (not everyone uses auto-cancel mods)

I don't understand. Explain please. As a priest, I have never had the
problem about the roll window popping up.

I like to loot during battles, it saves time. But if I'm ask nicely not to,
I won't. But honestly, I don't see the problem.
September 2, 2005 6:44:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Stavros Christoforou wrote:

> 1st and most important. NEVER LOOT MID-BATTLE.

I give you an other advise. If someone politely asks you to not loot in
mid battle, because the said person is not able to concentrate on 2
trivial tasks at once, be a nice guy and dont loot mid-battle anymore.

If someone tries to be an ass, going like "OMFG! DON'T LOOT IN BATTLE"
all in caps, give him a /slap and /ignore and Hearthstone out.
Very effective while playing a MT or Healer.

> If I was group leader and
> you did it more than once, I would kick you off my group. The reason? An
> extra window appears at the middle of the screen, which :
>
> a) Hides my heal bar (not everyone uses auto-cancel mods)

Move your heal bar to another place, if its so important to you, which
it is, in fact not.

> b) Restricts my view of the battle

I hope you never have to install CTRAID assist or attend raids where you
have to have them installed, if such a tiny loot window already
distracts your view ;) 

> c) Forces me and everyone else to look at the item and roll/pass/decide
> who gets it. In Scarlet Monastery this is not a problem, do it in DM
> West and you'll be dead before you read the item description.

Never happened to me. I main-tank bosses while comparing items and
chatting silly stuff.
Optionally you could still chosse to wait until the fight is over, to do
the loot talk, you are given plenty of time to do so.
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 7:02:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Dave wrote:
> Stavros Christoforou wrote:
>
>> 1st and most important. NEVER LOOT MID-BATTLE.
>
>
> I give you an other advise. If someone politely asks you to not loot in
> mid battle, because the said person is not able to concentrate on 2
> trivial tasks at once, be a nice guy and dont loot mid-battle anymore.
>
> If someone tries to be an ass, going like "OMFG! DON'T LOOT IN BATTLE"
> all in caps, give him a /slap and /ignore and Hearthstone out.
> Very effective while playing a MT or Healer.

Ah, let the flaming begin. First of all, everytime I join a group/raid,
I put it simple: if anyone mid-battle loots more than once, I kick them
(if I am leader) or leave (if I am not). "OMFG! DON'T LOOT IN BATTLE"
things are for kids. Oh, and being a druid main healer is far from
trivial, at least from my view.

>> If I was group leader and
>> you did it more than once, I would kick you off my group. The reason? An
>> extra window appears at the middle of the screen, which :
>>
>> a) Hides my heal bar (not everyone uses auto-cancel mods)
>
> Move your heal bar to another place, if its so important to you, which
> it is, in fact not.

It is the most important thing as a healer, if you want to conserve
mana. And as a druid, you DO want to conserve mana. You claim to have a
tank, so since I won't tell you how to play your tank don't tell me how
to play my healer.

>> b) Restricts my view of the battle
>
> I hope you never have to install CTRAID assist or attend raids where you
> have to have them installed, if such a tiny loot window already
> distracts your view ;) 

It doesnt restrict it by taking up space on my screen (and yes, I do
have ctra), it restricts it by having a popup window appearing out of
nowhere, which is the most annoying thing I can have on my screen.

>> c) Forces me and everyone else to look at the item and roll/pass/decide
>> who gets it. In Scarlet Monastery this is not a problem, do it in DM
>> West and you'll be dead before you read the item description.
>
>
> Never happened to me. I main-tank bosses while comparing items and
> chatting silly stuff.
> Optionally you could still chosse to wait until the fight is over, to do
> the loot talk, you are given plenty of time to do so.

Oh, I am sorry I do not have the concentration or lee7ness (or however
it is written) of your tank, but I find it quite a lot of work when
healing, and I like to do it properly. Then again, what exactly is your
problem with looting while resting after the fight?
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 7:05:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

And as a note to the OP, please feel free to counter argue my views or
read everyone else's. I just don't like it when others attack your views
personally instead of stating constructively their own. I won't take
this further, as I can't bother to. Happy instancing :) 
September 2, 2005 7:21:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Stavros Christoforou wrote:

> Ah, let the flaming begin. First of all, everytime I join a group/raid,
> I put it simple: if anyone mid-battle loots more than once, I kick them
> (if I am leader) or leave (if I am not).

sounds good to me.

>>>If I was group leader and
>>>you did it more than once, I would kick you off my group. The reason? An
>>>extra window appears at the middle of the screen, which :
>>>
>>>a) Hides my heal bar (not everyone uses auto-cancel mods)
>>
>>
>>Move your heal bar to another place, if its so important to you, which
>>it is, in fact not.
>
>
> It is the most important thing as a healer, if you want to conserve
> mana. And as a druid, you DO want to conserve mana. You claim to have a
> tank, so since I won't tell you how to play your tank don't tell me how
> to play my healer.

i actually play both classes, a tank a healer and a hybrid of the 2
(warrior, priest and druid), so please dont take it personally when i
say: "healers are slackers!" its my own experience, your milestone may vary.

>>>b) Restricts my view of the battle
>>
>>I hope you never have to install CTRAID assist or attend raids where you
>>have to have them installed, if such a tiny loot window already
>>distracts your view ;) 
>
>
> It doesnt restrict it by taking up space on my screen (and yes, I do
> have ctra), it restricts it by having a popup window appearing out of
> nowhere, which is the most annoying thing I can have on my screen.

ah ok then im sure, you are going to forfeit all the pop-up functions
ctraid assist has to offer.

>>>c) Forces me and everyone else to look at the item and roll/pass/decide
>>>who gets it. In Scarlet Monastery this is not a problem, do it in DM
>>>West and you'll be dead before you read the item description.
>>
>>
>>Never happened to me. I main-tank bosses while comparing items and
>>chatting silly stuff.
>>Optionally you could still chosse to wait until the fight is over, to do
>>the loot talk, you are given plenty of time to do so.
>
>
> Oh, I am sorry I do not have the concentration or lee7ness (or however
> it is written) of your tank, but I find it quite a lot of work when
> healing, and I like to do it properly. Then again, what exactly is your
> problem with looting while resting after the fight?

as i already said, i have no problems with looting after combat if this
is the groups consense. however, i do have problems with people trying
to make a _law_ out of their personal opinions, which ar in fact only
subjective, and go in all caps "DONT LOOT IN COMBAT" trying to be "teh
1337 enforcr of rulez or else im gonna kickxxor you ffs!

relax man :) 
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 7:27:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Stavros Christoforou wrote:
<s>
> The only place where you are allowed to mid-battle IMO is when there is
> only a sheep/sapped guy left and you are in a hurry. Otherwise, take
> your time. Most of the times in bigger instances the group stops anyway
> for mana rests.

I am always in a hurry and I only did it when all the tanks had aggro,
full health and maybe one or two mobs (not end bosses) left.

Still, our leader had a very strong opinion on this looting thing, so I
stopped doing it.

I wish you could loot bandages and coins from previous kills without
getting the roll for it pop up :-( I left a lot of (minor) stuff behind
in WC. Didn't even gather herbs most of the time (though they were good
there)

> As for N/G rules, I believe that the only reasonable options are the
> group roll or master looter (for boss fights). Other than that, lvl 60
> groups always use the so-called "raid rules". That means:
>
> 1) Roll on all green BoE and if someone needs they can just ask afterwards
> 2) ALWAYS pass on set items of other class, even if you could use it
> well. If everyone passes, then say you N.

g?! In fact, an aggility set item fell in WC (and I speced for cat form,
just got shred, which is cool to try and take aggro of a tank ;-) ), but
I passed on it as I thought I would never get it complete and I don't
play the game for the items so much (unless they look cool).

It was an item from the Embrace of the Viper set I think (found it on
thott). Thought it was a rogue/hunter set (we had a hunteress).

> 3) ALWAYS pass on BoP items you cannot use, if everyone passes just do a
> random /roll afterwards.

I always pass on BoP. I am very aware of what it does. When I know what
it does and if I want it I type, "can I have it pls", "anyone else wants
it", "do you have a need for it". That sort of thing.

> 4) If there is a BoP item you can use but is destined for another class
> (for example, if you are a druid and eye of rend drops), then ask the
> "primary" class if they mind you rolling. Unless they really need or are
> jerks, they should allow it.
>
> 5) Epics. These are a special case, but if you get mature groups they
> will usually follow the above rules for epics too.
>
> At least on my server (Silvermoon, EU), these are standard practices.

Good rules, post makes sense (though I still think it slows you down and
even distracts you from the game (the n, g, /rnd)). Group leader is on
my friends list. I will whisper him about it and talk things through
with the knowledge I have gained here today.

Salutation!
Thomas
--
Life is like a videogame with no chance to win - ATR
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 7:31:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Dave wrote:
> as i already said, i have no problems with looting after combat if this
> is the groups consense. however, i do have problems with people trying
> to make a _law_ out of their personal opinions, which ar in fact only
> subjective, and go in all caps "DONT LOOT IN COMBAT" trying to be "teh
> 1337 enforcr of rulez or else im gonna kickxxor you ffs!
>
> relax man :) 

See, you could have worded the whole thing like this and avoided me
having to quote many different thing with my little mind. :) 

What you say here makes perfect sense, as someone might not know the
general concensus and mid-battle loot. That person should not be shouted
at or flamed or whatever, simply told to by the party member that doesnt
like it why he/she doesn't like it, as for the looter it might look -
and be - perfectly reasonable to do so.

However, at least on my server, most healers (and not only healers) will
usually at the beginning, like when going through the UBRS door, state
that they dont want anyone mid-battling looting. And if someone does,
after being told not to, they are IMO stupid to do so, since they risk
losing probably the most valuable members of the group/raid. But if
noone says so and noone minds, I do not see why not loot mid-battle, but
that is a completely different story :) 
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 7:35:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Stavros Christoforou wrote:
> And as a note to the OP, please feel free to counter argue my views or
> read everyone else's. I just don't like it when others attack your views
> personally instead of stating constructively their own. I won't take
> this further, as I can't bother to. Happy instancing :) 

I am used to usenet, don't worry. It doesn't get to me much anymore
after all these years ;-)

But flaming in WoW might spoil the fun in the game for me. I don't feel
confident behind the keyboard there yet. Here I agree with Dave. I did
it too as I stated in WC that I wouldn't heal the locks imp and that
didn't make him happy (he went silent after that and told me not to heal
him either).

I also feel I will experience a lot more ninja looters and unneeded
wipes than I have done so far as I am still a low level. Wish I was
level 45 :-(

Thomas
--
Life is like a videogame with no chance to win - ATR
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 7:39:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Thomas J. Boschloo wrote:
> Stavros Christoforou wrote:
> <s>
>
>>The only place where you are allowed to mid-battle IMO is when there is
>>only a sheep/sapped guy left and you are in a hurry. Otherwise, take
>>your time. Most of the times in bigger instances the group stops anyway
>>for mana rests.
>
>
> I am always in a hurry and I only did it when all the tanks had aggro,
> full health and maybe one or two mobs (not end bosses) left.
>
> Still, our leader had a very strong opinion on this looting thing, so I
> stopped doing it.

And correctly you did, as you were not the leader. If you are the
leader, state the rules when forming the group, so that they can
postively/negatively react to your opinion. Your leader should have
stated it earlier though.

> g?! In fact, an aggility set item fell in WC (and I speced for cat form,
> just got shred, which is cool to try and take aggro of a tank ;-) ), but
> I passed on it as I thought I would never get it complete and I don't
> play the game for the items so much (unless they look cool).
>
> It was an item from the Embrace of the Viper set I think (found it on
> thott). Thought it was a rogue/hunter set (we had a hunteress).

I am talking about the full blue sets that drop in strat/scholo/brs.
These are the main goal of many lvl 55-60 players, and IMO they should
not be deprived of it just because someone else could use it too (like
rolling for the Rogueish Shadowcraft set as a druid or the Priesty
Devout set as a mage/lock). Of course, if the rogue/priest did not mind
(or wasnt there), I dont see why people couldnt roll.

>
>>3) ALWAYS pass on BoP items you cannot use, if everyone passes just do a
>>random /roll afterwards.
>
>
> I always pass on BoP. I am very aware of what it does. When I know what
> it does and if I want it I type, "can I have it pls", "anyone else wants
> it", "do you have a need for it". That sort of thing.
>

Agreed

>
> Good rules, post makes sense (though I still think it slows you down and
> even distracts you from the game (the n, g, /rnd)). Group leader is on
> my friends list. I will whisper him about it and talk things through
> with the knowledge I have gained here today.

When you get experience from long/high level raids (like BRD, Strat or
UBRS), the whole thing becomes much faster and more trivial than you
think, also because by then you will have an experience on
who-drops-what and be prepared for possible need rolls. Oh, and by the
time you have done the 50th UBRS run for your set chest, the game will
look so boring that /random rolls will be the last thing you'll care about!

>
> Salutation!
> Thomas

Greetings.
Stavros
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 7:54:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Stavros Christoforou wrote:
> Thomas J. Boschloo wrote:
>
>>Stavros Christoforou wrote:
>><s>
>>
>>>The only place where you are allowed to mid-battle IMO is when there is
>>>only a sheep/sapped guy left and you are in a hurry. Otherwise, take
>>>your time. Most of the times in bigger instances the group stops anyway
>>>for mana rests.
>>
>>
>>I am always in a hurry and I only did it when all the tanks had aggro,
>>full health and maybe one or two mobs (not end bosses) left.
>>
>>Still, our leader had a very strong opinion on this looting thing, so I
>>stopped doing it.
>
>
> And correctly you did, as you were not the leader. If you are the
> leader, state the rules when forming the group, so that they can
> postively/negatively react to your opinion. Your leader should have
> stated it earlier though.

He did actually. I got off lucky ;-) Leader likes me though and I hope
he always will.

>>Good rules, post makes sense (though I still think it slows you down and
>>even distracts you from the game (the n, g, /rnd)). Group leader is on
>>my friends list. I will whisper him about it and talk things through
>>with the knowledge I have gained here today.
>
>
> When you get experience from long/high level raids (like BRD, Strat or
> UBRS), the whole thing becomes much faster and more trivial than you
> think, also because by then you will have an experience on
> who-drops-what and be prepared for possible need rolls. Oh, and by the
> time you have done the 50th UBRS run for your set chest, the game will
> look so boring that /random rolls will be the last thing you'll care about!

I was pumping with adrenaline after WC and couldn't sleep for hours.
Told my party that I needed to kill something! Dueled a bit (lose, lose,
win), talked a bit, did a normal quest. Then went to bed and lay awake
for hours. Couldn't get up at all next morning, but it was worth it.

Not boring at all ;-)

Regards,
Thomas
--
Life is like a videogame with no chance to win - ATR
September 2, 2005 8:00:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Stavros Christoforou wrote:

> I am talking about the full blue sets that drop in strat/scholo/brs.
> These are the main goal of many lvl 55-60 players, and IMO they should
> not be deprived of it just because someone else could use it too (like
> rolling for the Rogueish Shadowcraft set as a druid or the Priesty
> Devout set as a mage/lock). Of course, if the rogue/priest did not mind
> (or wasnt there), I dont see why people couldnt roll.

again, please forgive me, i presume to a slightly variated opinion on
the blue class sets. :) 

First of all, the blue class sets are not restricted to just one class
(in a way the tier1/tier2 class sets are, which clearly state: can only
be equipped by <insert single class here>) so some of the set items are
in fact useful for other classes as well.
I know for example a shadow priest, who thinks of the Dreadmist Set
(considered to be the property of warlocks by many people) as of better
suited for him then the Devout one, to which i fully agree.
So Warlocks who whappened to group with that priest were ususally going
to be all pissed when he rooled for this items, although he had a very
valid reason to state N on that piece.
On the other hand, the Valor set is so utterly useless for a warrior
tank (defense speced) i would consider it rude if the warrior tank would
roll for it, if there was only a sigle arms/fury warrior in the party
who could actually need it.
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 8:04:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Dave wrote:
> First of all, the blue class sets are not restricted to just one class
> (in a way the tier1/tier2 class sets are, which clearly state: can only
> be equipped by <insert single class here>) so some of the set items are
> in fact useful for other classes as well.
> I know for example a shadow priest, who thinks of the Dreadmist Set
> (considered to be the property of warlocks by many people) as of better
> suited for him then the Devout one, to which i fully agree.
> So Warlocks who whappened to group with that priest were ususally going
> to be all pissed when he rooled for this items, although he had a very
> valid reason to state N on that piece.
> On the other hand, the Valor set is so utterly useless for a warrior
> tank (defense speced) i would consider it rude if the warrior tank would
> roll for it, if there was only a sigle arms/fury warrior in the party
> who could actually need it.

I do not see where we disagree here. As long as the shadow priest states
"I am full shadow and therefore I will roll if dreadmist drops, as it is
better than (insert item here) for me", they have every right to do so,
same goes for cat druids and SC. However, I (and many I know) would be
very pissed off at a priest that got to the end of a class run and
suddenly rolled on a dreadmist item, which would be the main -if not
only- reason that the lock was there. Wouldn't you be pissed off if you
were the lock?
September 2, 2005 8:19:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Stavros Christoforou wrote:

> I do not see where we disagree here. As long as the shadow priest states
> "I am full shadow and therefore I will roll if dreadmist drops, as it is
> better than (insert item here) for me", they have every right to do so,
> same goes for cat druids and SC. However, I (and many I know) would be
> very pissed off at a priest that got to the end of a class run and
> suddenly rolled on a dreadmist item, which would be the main -if not
> only- reason that the lock was there. Wouldn't you be pissed off if you
> were the lock?

well if its the goal of a class run to get a set item with no
competition (which i think it is, but cant say for sure, because on our
server only alliance makes class runs, so i dont know exactly whats the
concept behind it) i think i were pissed too, _if_ i was not told before
the run started that the priest is after the same item then me. but in
that case it would proably be best to do class raids only with the 08/15
designed classes anyway.

Whatever, my point was, altough i might have put it somewhat unclear,
warlocks were still going to get pissed even tho they knew the priest
was collecting "their" items, which striked my as a bid odd, but oh well...
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 9:34:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Thomas J. Boschloo" <nospam@hccnet.nl> wrote:

> I was in a (noob) party where we had N/G (as I always ask for that). And
> the lock was upset that he could not role on N items like mail and axes.

You mean greed items? Yes, that would upset me too. If noone can use an
item, why should a warrior have more rights to roll on it than the
warlock?

People on my server use group loot with "manual" n/g, or master looter at
boss encounters in raid groups.

> And I was told not to loot while the
> battles were still in progress (makes sense, but also costs time,
> especially when the battle has progressed to a point where a healer is
> no longer needed and I can regen my mana).

I hate it when people loot in battle. It's not that bad if you're a
healer and have nothing to do, but a mage for example you prefers to
pick up the loot instead of kicking buts multiple times will not cause
much happyness in me.

On the other hand: I've been to an UBRS raid where the leader stated
"if you loot in battle it's treated like a greed roll, no matter what".
This made me close to quit that party - when player a decides to combat
loot, why should player b who could need the item be punished?
I've won a tome of arcane brilliance that way and asked afterwards if
someone could use it, and the leader even had the balls to tell me I
should keep it because it was combat loot. If someone could've needed
I would've told him he'd better stick that stupid rule to a very dark
bodypart or he'll have to continue with one healer :o )

> I understand that the 1.7 patch will have a greed button (which I like).
> I only loot low level monsters while in battle and left overs from
> earlier battles (otherwise I end up falling behind my party as I am
> often the last to loot, which is worse because I think mosts healers
> work in the rear ranks of the party).

After the battle, loot the corpses, rest, start next fight. If your
teammates decide to pull before you're ready and you wipe because you'er
oom, it's not your fault.

> I want some 50+ levels opinion on all of this,

#1 Moo.
#2 don't panic

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (60) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Lonewalker - Striding Tauren (18) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 1:39:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Nathan Engle wrote:
> Thomas J. Boschloo wrote:
>
>> I want some 50+ levels opinion on all of this,
>
>
> I find looting during fighting to be inconsiderate, and in
> my view the number of seconds you save by doing it are more
> than lost in after-battle arguments and wipes caused when
> somebody gets distracted while they're still fighting and
> you aren't. When I reach a point where I don't think I'll
> need to heal any more I'll start pitching in a few moonfires.
> What I will NOT do is anything that would even suggest that
> I'm paying attention to anything other than my party's health
> bars.

I run oom occasionally. And if I estimate the situation correctly I
don't use a mana potion but start chatting and stuff (which probably
also is annoying to my team mates).

Thomas
--
Life is like a videogame with no chance to win - ATR
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 1:45:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Christian Stauffer wrote:
> "Thomas J. Boschloo" <nospam@hccnet.nl> wrote:
<snip>
>> I want some 50+ levels opinion on all of this,
>
>
> #1 Moo.

Have a glas of milk!
/cheer

> #2 don't panic

Not unless I am feared by some mob :-)

hi,
Thomas
--
Life is like a videogame with no chance to win - ATR
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 3:30:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Ly" <bluong@onlinesupplier.com> wrote in message
news:Ti%Re.6552$tB5.2105@okepread06...
>> a) Hides my heal bar (not everyone uses auto-cancel mods)
>
> I don't understand. Explain please. As a priest, I have never had the
> problem about the roll window popping up.
>
> I like to loot during battles, it saves time. But if I'm ask nicely not
> to,
> I won't. But honestly, I don't see the problem.

If the fight is enough of a challenge to even call it a 'battle' then I do
not want to divert my attention to decide whether the item is better or
worse than what I have. Wipes do happen because of people not paying
attention.
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 3:29:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Stavros Christoforou wrote:
> As for N/G rules, I believe that the only reasonable options are the
> group roll or master looter (for boss fights). Other than that, lvl 60
> groups always use the so-called "raid rules". That means:
>
> 1) Roll on all green BoE and if someone needs they can just ask afterwards
> 2) ALWAYS pass on set items of other class, even if you could use it
> well. If everyone passes, then say you N.
> 3) ALWAYS pass on BoP items you cannot use, if everyone passes just do a
> random /roll afterwards.
> 4) If there is a BoP item you can use but is destined for another class
> (for example, if you are a druid and eye of rend drops), then ask the
> "primary" class if they mind you rolling. Unless they really need or are
> jerks, they should allow it.
>
> 5) Epics. These are a special case, but if you get mature groups they
> will usually follow the above rules for epics too.
>
> At least on my server (Silvermoon, EU), these are standard practices.
Our guild looting policies are

1 ALWAYS pass on BoP, we will random it off after the fight.
2 NBG on BoE, with the ability to swap greens around afterwards if
something different drops, or someone else can use it
also....negotiating during downtime can be fun=)
3 No combat looting
4 we greed roll if nobody needs, and in general at elast one person is
in group that can disenchant if the winner of the unneeded BoP item
wants a shard/dust instead of the item.

One thing I would like to make policy is that if you get a BoP you dont
roll on another one until everybody has one, but right now we are in the
equiping upgrade phase for many of our 50+ members, and I would like to
make it the same on BoE greens [you pass on rolls after you win one
until everybody has a BoE green item] but I am not GL, I can only suggest=)

We can generally make up to a 10 person raid from guild only, but we
will include friends frequently enough. Nobody has ever complained that
we are unfair, I have been in almost guildonly groups that only guild
got to roll - we let anybody along roll=)

Actually as guilds go, we are doing pretty well, we have 23 50-60
members, and another 19 40-50 - and leveling fast. I cant wait until we
actually can fill out a 40 man MC raid with just guild =) Our 60 members
are working on alts to round out the roster with additionally needed
classes, I have both a warrior and a priest in the works in addition to
my warlock. I think another of our strengths is we have a good bunch of
guildies who will pass out green drops to guildies that werent along to
help everybody upgrade. We also help each other out with tradeskill
drops, and quest item farming [I am working on collecting the
dragonscales for my lil epic pony so one of our skinning shammies has
been helping me] Sort of the best combination between a family guild and
a raid guild. We want to end up with a good raid force and do regularly
scheduled MC raids without the rosco alliance.
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 3:33:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Stavros Christoforou wrote:

>
> I do not see where we disagree here. As long as the shadow priest states
> "I am full shadow and therefore I will roll if dreadmist drops, as it is
> better than (insert item here) for me", they have every right to do so,
> same goes for cat druids and SC. However, I (and many I know) would be
> very pissed off at a priest that got to the end of a class run and
> suddenly rolled on a dreadmist item, which would be the main -if not
> only- reason that the lock was there. Wouldn't you be pissed off if you
> were the lock?

Only if he rolled without letting us know beforehand...

I happen to want magister and i am a lock [already have the gloves]
because i want certain features of the set that work with my build and
play style. Hell, if a tank wanted the dreadmist and told us in the
beginning I wouldn't mind him rolling [might think he was truely insane
to forgo the ac of plate, but it is his armor, but I probably wouldnt
play with him again unless he could tank in cloth and not burden the
healer.]
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 3:36:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

John Burton wrote:
> People occasionally loot stuff during a
> fight by accident but I wouldn't expect anyone to ever do it on purpose.

blushes and raises her hand ...

I have oopsed and looted by accident before trying to target by mouse
because the tab wasnt working. *sigh* at least it was BoE and not BoP.
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 6:47:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 17:34:32 +0200, "Christian Stauffer"
<wildcard666@bluewin.ch> wrote:

>On the other hand: I've been to an UBRS raid where the leader stated
>"if you loot in battle it's treated like a greed roll, no matter what".
>This made me close to quit that party - when player a decides to combat
>loot, why should player b who could need the item be punished?
>I've won a tome of arcane brilliance that way and asked afterwards if
>someone could use it, and the leader even had the balls to tell me I
>should keep it because it was combat loot. If someone could've needed
>I would've told him he'd better stick that stupid rule to a very dark
>bodypart or he'll have to continue with one healer :o )


I hope you didn't mean me with that remark!

My personal habit is indeed: when a roll window pops up mid-fight, i
click roll. Even if it's teh Uber-staff of Healzinga - which i can't
use.
It just shows disrespect to those that still fight. I mean, i beat up
a monster and others in the party have the nerves to pick their noses
and go around, looking for sparkles? Sheesh. If you would help killing
the monster, it would be dead faster, you could loot faster, those
pesky casters can start drinking faster, less downtime.
It's not only disrespect, it can also be dangerous as hell.

So, i don't like it. I will continue to roll on everything that pops
up during battle.

Kai
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 12:33:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Sonnenschein wrote:
> One thing I would like to make policy is that if you get a BoP you dont
> roll on another one until everybody has one, but right now we are in the
> equiping upgrade phase for many of our 50+ members, and I would like to
> make it the same on BoE greens [you pass on rolls after you win one
> until everybody has a BoE green item] but I am not GL, I can only suggest=)

That's the way we do it with BoPs, sort of: if two or more people want
an item, only those who have not already gotten something roll.

So if a Sword of Pwning drops, and you're the only person who wants it,
and then Boots of Pwn-Avoiding drop, and you're the only person who
wants them, you get both.

So if a Sword of Pwning drops, and you're the only person who wants it,
so you take it, and then Boots of Pwn-Avoiding drop, and another guy
wants them as well as you, he gets them automatically because you've
already got something. Or if two other guys wanted them, they'd both
roll, but you wouldn't be allowed to.

I got bitten by this yesterday in UBRS.. Truestrike Shoulders dropped,
and I grabbed them (pretty "meh" item, but better than the green
shoulders I was wearing). Then Drakk dropped the Shadowcraft Tunic, and
I had to shrug (in my new shoulderpads) and say "them's the breaks!" as
another rogue took them unopposed.

Some people play by a stricter "one need" rule, which would have the
Boots in the first situation above randomed, and the person who wanted
them would have to pay a fair sum (i.e. the value of a shard) to the
person who won the roll. I certainly don't think that's appropriate for
guild runs, and wouldn't even want to use it in a pickup group, it just
seems a bit greedy to me. If multiple items drop that only one person
wants, I'm happy to see them getting geared up, not grumpy that I'm
missing out on the chance at some large brilliant shards from unwanted
blues.

Cheers!
David...
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 12:33:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

David Carson wrote:

> Some people play by a stricter "one need" rule, which would have the
> Boots in the first situation above randomed, and the person who wanted
> them would have to pay a fair sum (i.e. the value of a shard) to the
> person who won the roll. I certainly don't think that's appropriate for
> guild runs, and wouldn't even want to use it in a pickup group, it just
> seems a bit greedy to me. If multiple items drop that only one person
> wants, I'm happy to see them getting geared up, not grumpy that I'm
> missing out on the chance at some large brilliant shards from unwanted
> blues.
>
> Cheers!
> David...

DAmn ... never heard of that! We like gearing people up, even if they
arent guildies - some day they *might* be guildies=) or we may be
depending on them to keep us functional in some manner so any way you
cut it, better equipment = better capable groups.

I will confess, one run through marudon [we were after the princess
specifically so otherwise it was pretty much a greed run] so almost all
the blues got disenchanted - and i think all 5 of us ended up with a
large glowing shard, at least 2 green drops, and a bunch of otherwise
sellable greys and usable tradeskill goodies. ALso IIRC 6 or 7 ghost
shrooms and some good ore.
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 12:40:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Sonnenschein wrote:
> David Carson wrote:
>
>> Some people play by a stricter "one need" rule, which would have the
>> Boots in the first situation above randomed, and the person who wanted
>> them would have to pay a fair sum (i.e. the value of a shard) to the
>> person who won the roll.
>
> DAmn ... never heard of that! We like gearing people up, even if they
> arent guildies - some day they *might* be guildies=) or we may be
> depending on them to keep us functional in some manner so any way you
> cut it, better equipment = better capable groups.

I agree! Not to mention that better gear on random members of my faction
= better for my faction in the battlegrounds. :-)

Cheers!
David...
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 2:15:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Kai Scholz-Starke" <bergzwerg@arcor.de> wrote:

> On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 17:34:32 +0200, "Christian Stauffer"
> <wildcard666@bluewin.ch> wrote:
>
>>On the other hand: I've been to an UBRS raid where the leader stated
>>"if you loot in battle it's treated like a greed roll, no matter what".
>>This made me close to quit that party - when player a decides to combat
>>loot, why should player b who could need the item be punished?
>>I've won a tome of arcane brilliance that way and asked afterwards if
>>someone could use it, and the leader even had the balls to tell me I
>>should keep it because it was combat loot. If someone could've needed
>>I would've told him he'd better stick that stupid rule to a very dark
>>bodypart or he'll have to continue with one healer :o )
>
> I hope you didn't mean me with that remark!

Nah, that was a pickup group.

> My personal habit is indeed: when a roll window pops up mid-fight, i
> click roll. Even if it's teh Uber-staff of Healzinga - which i can't
> use.

As long as it's BoE - go on, no harm done. If it's BoP, well sorry,
but you just wasted an item that could've been of use for one of your
teams members. And there's a big chance that the person who looted in
combat wasn't the one who could have used the item.

> So, i don't like it. I will continue to roll on everything that pops
> up during battle.

Bad habit imho.

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (60) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Lonewalker - Striding Tauren (18) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jazrah - Brutal Troll (16) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Jivarr - Charming Troll (12) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 12:28:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:35:22 +0200, Dave <dave@news.tk> wrote:

>Later on in high level instance you probably still stick to the Group
>Loot system, but instead of N and G it, you will roll on all BoE and
>Pass all BoP by default, since by then you wont need 99% of BoE items
>anymore and BoP s you want to discuss anyway. This system is very
>vulnerable to ninja-looters but by then you will probably also have a
>fair stock of trusted players in your friend list.

I've never understood why people even bother to roll on the greens.
We always run with Group loot set (since round robin is still screwed
up) and set the roll threshhold to Epic. If it's a BoE item, whoever
is up for looting that corpse just grabs it. If someone calls need,
they're given the item later. If it's a BoP item, you stop and discuss
it and then roll by /rand if more than one person could use. You
rarely do more than 1 or 2 rolls during an instance and you never need
to worry about accidentally screwing up and rolling on the wrong
thing. Might not work on raid sized groups but we've never had a 5 man
where people had a problem with doing it that way.

Rgds, Frank
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 3:25:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Thomas J. Boschloo left a note on my windscreen which said:

> I was in a (noob) party where we had N/G (as I always ask for that). And
> the lock was upset that he could not role on N items like mail and axes.
> Then we wend to a system of typing n and g at every item, which I
> thought was stupid and delaying. And I was told not to loot while the
> battles were still in progress (makes sense, but also costs time,
> especially when the battle has progressed to a point where a healer is
> no longer needed and I can regen my mana).
>
> I understand that the 1.7 patch will have a greed button (which I like).
> I only loot low level monsters while in battle and left overs from
> earlier battles (otherwise I end up falling behind my party as I am
> often the last to loot, which is worse because I think mosts healers
> work in the rear ranks of the party).
>
> I want some 50+ levels opinion on all of this,
> Thomas

Do you mean you used the Need before Greed system? I hate that -
totally unfair IMHO.

A N/G vote is probably the best way to do it until you get into 10+ raid
groups where Master Looter can control the loot better and G rolls are a
single /random 1-(number of ppl in group).

The inclusion of the greed button would be a welcome change - I hope
people will quickly get out of hitting the dice for greed rolls though.
Because the looting is faster people will be watching the log to make
sure no-one is cheating them with need rolls. Hopefully any need rolls
will be quite obvious to the rest of the party.

And please don't loot in battle. There really is no reason for it and
if the loot is something to be rolled for then all players will find the
roll box pop up on screen in the midst of fighting mobs. I would
welcome a change to the looting system so that you *cannot* loot if your
character is flagged as in battle.
--
Stoneskin

My personal army of Coalition members on Sunstrider are...

Necrofear - lvl 60 Undead Priest
Relinquished - lvl 22 Undead Warlock
Wartorn - lvl 23 Tauren Warrior
Jigen - lvl 12 Orc Rogue
Squeak - lvl 14 Troll Hunter
Stoneskin - lvl 8 Orc Shaman
Nightmane - lvl 2 Tauren Druid
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 3:58:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Thomas J. Boschloo <nospam@hccnet.nl> wrote:
> I stated in WC that I wouldn't heal the locks imp and that
> didn't make him happy (he went silent after that and told me not to heal
> him either).

From level 12 on warlocks are able to heal their pets themselves, no
need for healers to bother with them. Furthermore imps are
expendable. They die too quickly once they get out of phase-shift and
only cost mana to be summoned. Let them die and complain about the
missing buff until the 'lock learns when the imp should stay in
phaseshift.


> I also feel I will experience a lot more ninja looters and unneeded
> wipes than I have done so far as I am still a low level.

You will. Since it only takes time to reach higher levels I
encountered quite a number of level 60 players who didn't know how to
play their class just waiting for a moment to wipe the
party.

--
Erick
September 6, 2005 4:47:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Well, I'm sure all those people who haven't been able to roll beacause
they were either dead at the wrong time or ported would love to play
with you combat looters.

When you're playing with mages, you have plenty of time to loot after
the combat, whilst we drink and then loot our share. You should be
waiting for us anyway, so what time does the combat loot save you?

And a healer that only heals is a bit of a waste..... our guilds best
healer also gets 1500 criticals in there! Like a mage only doing buffs
and dps and forgetting water & bread....


(the only place I've every been on Master Loot is MC. I've only seen two
ninja rolls (since March!), once I did (by mistake, it was a combat loot
and when you play on 800x600 any extra screen trash is annoying... I
clicked, in a hurry, on the wrong button) and once that was on a rare
green BoA, an error also be a warrior)


(by the way, our server standard rules are pass on BoA, rand Set,then
need then greed rand with enchanters invited to give the shard to the
winner.... but amongst friends the enchanter roll is also common

It's interesting to note that the standard Set/need roll on BoA varies
from server to server.)



Mage, Kirin Tor






Kai Scholz-Starke a écrit :
> On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 17:34:32 +0200, "Christian Stauffer"
> <wildcard666@bluewin.ch> wrote:
>
>
>>On the other hand: I've been to an UBRS raid where the leader stated
>>"if you loot in battle it's treated like a greed roll, no matter what".
>>This made me close to quit that party - when player a decides to combat
>>loot, why should player b who could need the item be punished?
>>I've won a tome of arcane brilliance that way and asked afterwards if
>>someone could use it, and the leader even had the balls to tell me I
>>should keep it because it was combat loot. If someone could've needed
>>I would've told him he'd better stick that stupid rule to a very dark
>>bodypart or he'll have to continue with one healer :o )
>
>
>
> I hope you didn't mean me with that remark!
>
> My personal habit is indeed: when a roll window pops up mid-fight, i
> click roll. Even if it's teh Uber-staff of Healzinga - which i can't
> use.
> It just shows disrespect to those that still fight. I mean, i beat up
> a monster and others in the party have the nerves to pick their noses
> and go around, looking for sparkles? Sheesh. If you would help killing
> the monster, it would be dead faster, you could loot faster, those
> pesky casters can start drinking faster, less downtime.
> It's not only disrespect, it can also be dangerous as hell.
>
> So, i don't like it. I will continue to roll on everything that pops
> up during battle.
>
> Kai
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 1:07:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Stoneskin wrote:
<snip>
> And please don't loot in battle. There really is no reason for it and
> if the loot is something to be rolled for then all players will find the
> roll box pop up on screen in the midst of fighting mobs. I would
> welcome a change to the looting system so that you *cannot* loot if your
> character is flagged as in battle.

Or even better, if you can't loot items above the looting treshold in
battle. I tend to get behind in my parties (also because I am a herbalist).

Thomas
--
Life is like a videogame with no chance to win - ATR
!