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New cpu and motherboard or gpu?

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September 5, 2012 2:45:19 PM

Hi all,

I am planning on playing borderlands 2 when it comes out. The recommended
specs state I need a quad core processor and a gtx560.

I currently have:

Amd athlon x3 455 3.3ghz
asus gtx560 direct cu II (factory overclocked to 850mhz)
asus M5A78L/USB3 AMD Socket AM3+ (non-sli)
Kingston 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 1600MHz HyperX Blu Memory Kit CL9 1.65V
OCZ ModXStream Pro 500W Modular PSU Single 12V Rail 135mm Fan SLI Certified
(I also have a spare gt430 which i could use physx)


I would like to upgrade the cpu, motherboard and the graphics but I can't do them all at the same time.

The question is:

A. Should I Update the cpu and motherboard to a i5 3570k 3.4ghz and msi z77a-gd-55 (sli motherboard), plug in the spare gt430 for physx and then upgrade the graphics and psu at a later date to a gtx670 and 1000w psu?

B. Go with the gtx670 and 1000w psu first and then upgrade the cpu and motherboard later on?

C. You tell me!

The reason for the 1000w psu is an upgrade path to dual gtx670's.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

David

More about : cpu motherboard gpu

a c 315 à CPUs
a c 243 V Motherboard
September 5, 2012 3:00:05 PM

Since the requirements are for a quad, upgrading the gpu first will not let you meet the requirements.
Upgrading the cpu first will let you meet them since you already have the required gpu.

You seem to be planning on sli as an upgrade path.
Let me give you my canned rant on that:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dual graphics cards vs. a good single card.

a) How good do you really need to be?
A single GTX560 or 6870 can give you great performance at 1920 x 1200 in most games.

A single GTX560ti or 6950 will give you excellent performance at 1920 x 1200 in most games.
Even 2560 x 1600 will be good with lowered detail.
A single 7970 or GTX680 is about as good as it gets.

Only if you are looking at triple monitor gaming, then sli/cf will be needed.
Even that is now changing with triple monitor support on top end cards.

b) The costs for a single card are lower.
You require a less expensive motherboard; no need for sli/cf or multiple pci-e slots.
Even a ITX motherboard will do.

Your psu costs are less.
A GTX560ti needs a 450w psu, even a GTX580 only needs a 600w psu.
When you add another card to the mix, plan on adding 150-200w to your psu requirements.
A single more modern 28nm card like a 7970 or GTX680 needs only 550W.
Even the strongest GTX690 only needs 650w.

Case cooling becomes more of an issue with dual cards.
That means a more expensive case with more and stronger fans.
You will also look at more noise.

c) Dual cards do not always render their half of the display in sync, causing microstuttering. It is an annoying effect.
The benefit of higher benchmark fps can be offset, particularly with lower tier cards.
Read this: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-geforce-stut...

d) dual card support is dependent on the driver. Not all games can benefit from dual cards.

e) cf/sli up front reduces your option to get another card for an upgrade. Not that I suggest you plan for that.
It will often be the case that replacing your current card with a newer gen card will offer a better upgrade path.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a b à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
September 5, 2012 3:06:29 PM

I'd bet money the "quad core" recommended requirement is B.S. You'll be fine with your current triple core and video card with a little overclocking.

Buy a decent cpu cooler if you don't already have one (coolermaster hyper 212 runs ~$30), and overclock your 455. Despite being a multiplier-locked processor, they reach nice overclocks just on FSB frequency (mine is @ 4.0 ghz).

grab MSI afterburner to overclock your 560
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/273623-29-overclock

good luck!
Related resources
a c 132 à CPUs
a c 141 V Motherboard
September 5, 2012 3:09:05 PM

The recommended specs say a GTX560, and you have a GTX560? If that's the "recommended," what is the "minimum?"
I would suggest a CPU/mobo upgrade first. Fanboys may wish otherwise, but AMD just isn't competing on performance in games any more; certainly not without high, power-sucking overclocks. As to the mobo, I would choose Asus, ASRock, or Gigabyte over MSI, especially if you plan to overclock (although you may not, and shouldn't feel like you have to).
You may or may not care about PhysX. Few games use it. I'd make that a secondary concern right now.
You should be able to run a pair of GTX670s with a quality 750W PSU; 1kW is [expensive] overkill. You can run one of them on your existing PSU, which will at least let you see how much, if any, graphics upgrade is needed.

Edit: Oh, and that's a good rant from geofelt.

September 5, 2012 3:21:41 PM

TheCheeseGoat said:
Hi all,

I am planning on playing borderlands 2 when it comes out. The recommended
specs state I need a quad core processor and a gtx560.

I currently have:

Amd athlon x3 455 3.3ghz
asus gtx560 direct cu II (factory overclocked to 850mhz)
asus M5A78L/USB3 AMD Socket AM3+ (non-sli)
Kingston 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 1600MHz HyperX Blu Memory Kit CL9 1.65V
OCZ ModXStream Pro 500W Modular PSU Single 12V Rail 135mm Fan SLI Certified
(I also have a spare gt430 which i could use physx)


I would like to upgrade the cpu, motherboard and the graphics but I can't do them all at the same time.

The question is:

A. Should I Update the cpu and motherboard to a i5 3570k 3.4ghz and msi z77a-gd-55 (sli motherboard), plug in the spare gt430 for physx and then upgrade the graphics and psu at a later date to a gtx670 and 1000w psu?

B. Go with the gtx670 and 1000w psu first and then upgrade the cpu and motherboard later on?

C. You tell me!

The reason for the 1000w psu is an upgrade path to dual gtx670's.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

David



*That CPU/motherboard MUST go, buy a i5 3570k with a CM 212 EVO cooler and This motherboard and overclock it to 4.2Ghz

*4GB are.... well, i'd say enough but will definitely benefit from having 8GB of 1600Mhz (~40$)

*forget about the GTX670... 7970Ghz edition is the way to go.

*1000w PSU???? are you gonna do 3/4 way SLI/Crossfire with GTX680s/7970s??

*Dual GTX670/680/7970 + overclock on the CPU and GPU will not consume more than 700w... therefore a 750w PSU is recommended...get this PSU
September 5, 2012 3:31:40 PM

geofelt said:
Since the requirements are for a quad, upgrading the gpu first will not let you meet the requirements.
Upgrading the cpu first will let you meet them since you already have the required gpu.

You seem to be planning on sli as an upgrade path.
Let me give you my canned rant on that:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dual graphics cards vs. a good single card.

a) How good do you really need to be?
A single GTX560 or 6870 can give you great performance at 1920 x 1200 in most games.

A single GTX560ti or 6950 will give you excellent performance at 1920 x 1200 in most games.
Even 2560 x 1600 will be good with lowered detail.
A single 7970 or GTX680 is about as good as it gets.

Only if you are looking at triple monitor gaming, then sli/cf will be needed.
Even that is now changing with triple monitor support on top end cards.

b) The costs for a single card are lower.
You require a less expensive motherboard; no need for sli/cf or multiple pci-e slots.
Even a ITX motherboard will do.

Your psu costs are less.
A GTX560ti needs a 450w psu, even a GTX580 only needs a 600w psu.
When you add another card to the mix, plan on adding 150-200w to your psu requirements.
A single more modern 28nm card like a 7970 or GTX680 needs only 550W.
Even the strongest GTX690 only needs 650w.

Case cooling becomes more of an issue with dual cards.
That means a more expensive case with more and stronger fans.
You will also look at more noise.

c) Dual cards do not always render their half of the display in sync, causing microstuttering. It is an annoying effect.
The benefit of higher benchmark fps can be offset, particularly with lower tier cards.
Read this: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-geforce-stut...

d) dual card support is dependent on the driver. Not all games can benefit from dual cards.

e) cf/sli up front reduces your option to get another card for an upgrade. Not that I suggest you plan for that.
It will often be the case that replacing your current card with a newer gen card will offer a better upgrade path.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I HAVE A QUESTIOON!

are you really saying that because you mean it or because you don't have money for SLI or Crossfire????


*Have you ever tried SLI/CF with dual powerfull cards???

*dude, i've played a LOT with dual 7970s and that microstuttering thing is bull sh!it it has never happened to me and it didn't happen back when i had dual GTX460s.

*for some 1080p games CF and SLI ARE required to max them out on 3D @120Hz!

*a lot of games benefit from SLI/CF @1080p because of the higher framerate.... and before you say anything i DO notice the difference between 60 120 and 240 Hz.

*of course the cost of dual cards is higher, what were you expecting?

*who really cares about power consumption when you have the right PSU?

*i partially agree with the temperature thing...the lower card runs a bit hotter but not if you have a decent case, besides... the heat issues were greatly reduced since the introduction of 28nm GPUs.

*did you really recommended a 6950 when the 7850/7870 are out???
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a b V Motherboard
September 5, 2012 4:09:21 PM

Onus said:
Fanboys may wish otherwise, but AMD just isn't competing on performance in games any more; .


I agree that AMD processors don't compete with Intel's high end processors.

The elephant in the room you fail to mention is that the 2500k/3570k's, etc are complete overkill. Even at stock clocks, there aren't any games that push these processors, not to mention unless your video card solution runs $500 or more, the video card is going to run out of juice long before even AMD's processor.

With my 7850 @ 1200mhz core and the 455 i have @ 4.0 ghz, I have yet to run into a game that tops out the processor before the video card. (play metro 2033, crysis 1, 2, deus ex, rage, witcher 2, etc)
September 5, 2012 4:23:45 PM

quilciri said:
I agree that AMD processors don't compete with Intel's high end processors.

The elephant in the room you fail to mention is that the 2500k/3570k's, etc are complete overkill. Even at stock clocks, there aren't any games that push these processors, not to mention unless your video card solution runs $500 or more, the video card is going to run out of juice long before even AMD's processor.

With my 7850 @ 1200mhz core and the 455 i have @ 4.0 ghz, I have yet to run into a game that tops out the processor before the video card. (play metro 2033, crysis 1, 2, deus ex, rage, witcher 2, etc)


What? 2500k/3570k are overkill??? since when?
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a b V Motherboard
September 5, 2012 4:33:38 PM

idroid said:
What? 2500k/3570k are overkill??? since when?


for exactly the reasons i wrote in the rest of the post you quoted...
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a b V Motherboard
September 5, 2012 4:38:52 PM

I haven't played Skyrim, that game is notoriously CPU dependent and might top out my processor before the 7850 hits full usage, but other than that, upgrading your platform while keeping a 560 will generally leave you with an underused CPU in games.
September 5, 2012 5:42:42 PM

I have the same Dilemma. I have a Toshiba Qosimo. Will it play it?
a b à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
September 5, 2012 5:45:19 PM

In your shoes, I would grab the 670 first, then upgrade the platform later. You'll see greater game perfromance from an overclocked 455/gtx 670 than a 3570k/overclocked 560. You'll want to overclock your 455 to prevent it from hampering the 670 too much.

have fun!
September 5, 2012 5:46:01 PM

Being new to the forums after a very long absence, these posts are great for accessing tons of information and opinions before taking the plunge and buying components. I am in a similar situation as it is time for a significant upgrade with my PC.

After spending hours reading post after post, I have come to the conclusion that when upgrading or building a new system, the foundation is the Motherboard/processor/ram/video card.

From a perfromance standpoint and scalability for future upgrades, spending a little extra on a 2500k/3570k is well worth it versus scaling back to save 50 100 dollars.

With my limited budget, I may not be able to feed my kids for a week, but I would rather spend a bit extra to ensure my system will last a bit longer. I'll just send the kids to grandmas for a few days so they don't starve. lol

As you can tell I'm gonna put my money into a 2500k/3570k even if it takes me longer to build.
a c 315 à CPUs
a c 243 V Motherboard
September 5, 2012 6:44:05 PM

idroid said:
I HAVE A QUESTIOON!

are you really saying that because you mean it or because you don't have money for SLI or Crossfire????
>>>I have enough money to buy any graphics configuration I want. But, not everyone does.

*Have you ever tried SLI/CF with dual powerfull cards???
>>>No, I have never used sli/cf regardless of the power of the cards.

*dude, i've played a LOT with dual 7970s and that microstuttering thing is bull sh!it it has never happened to me and it didn't happen back when i had dual GTX460s.
>>> The microstuttering effect is more prevalent with lower power cards, not with top end cards as the article indicates.

*for some 1080p games CF and SLI ARE required to max them out on 3D @120Hz!
>>> along with triple monitor gaming as I point out in my rant.

*a lot of games benefit from SLI/CF @1080p because of the higher framerate.... and before you say anything i DO notice the difference between 60 120 and 240 Hz.
>>> I believe you. My monitors refresh at 60hz, and 60fps is a hard coded limit for some games.
When CRT monitors were prevalent, it took a refresh rate to keep the image steady. Today's LCD monitors refresh differently.
No doubt faster is better.

*of course the cost of dual cards is higher, what were you expecting?
>>> If you are on a budget, cost is an issue.

*who really cares about power consumption when you have the right PSU?
>>> Nobody, at least if you don't have to pay your own electric bill. Ans, probably not much then either. But, a stronger psu than needed will cost more.

*i partially agree with the temperature thing...the lower card runs a bit hotter but not if you have a decent case, besides... the heat issues were greatly reduced since the introduction of 28nm GPUs.
>>> True enough. I also happen to like smaller cases. A M-ATX motherboard may support cf/sli, but of necessity, the cards must be adjacent.

*did you really recommended a 6950 when the 7850/7870 are out???

>>> It is not a recommendation. It was merely an example of what level card is needed for gaming @1080P.
Today, I recommend the newer 28nm cards, the Nvidia GTX6xxx and AMD 7xxxx cards. They run cooler and quieter.

a c 315 à CPUs
a c 243 V Motherboard
September 5, 2012 6:50:44 PM

jcsully71 said:
Being new to the forums after a very long absence, these posts are great for accessing tons of information and opinions before taking the plunge and buying components. I am in a similar situation as it is time for a significant upgrade with my PC.

After spending hours reading post after post, I have come to the conclusion that when upgrading or building a new system, the foundation is the Motherboard/processor/ram/video card.

From a perfromance standpoint and scalability for future upgrades, spending a little extra on a 2500k/3570k is well worth it versus scaling back to save 50 100 dollars.

With my limited budget, I may not be able to feed my kids for a week, but I would rather spend a bit extra to ensure my system will last a bit longer. I'll just send the kids to grandmas for a few days so they don't starve. lol

As you can tell I'm gonna put my money into a 2500k/3570k even if it takes me longer to build.


I can't really disagree with you.
But, consider that technology is continually changing. Today's parts will be obsolete in two years. Not because they will deteriorate, but because new parts will have better performance for the price.
"future proofing" does not seem to be a winning strategy. My thought is to buy what you need for today, plus what you can forecast for the near future.

As a rule of thumb planning a gaming PC, I suggest you budget about twice the cost of your cpu for the graphics card.

And... don't starve your kids.
September 5, 2012 7:02:04 PM

geofelt said:
are you really saying that because you mean it or because you don't have money for SLI or Crossfire????
>>>I have enough money to buy any graphics configuration I want. But, not everyone does.

*Have you ever tried SLI/CF with dual powerfull cards???
>>>No, I have never used sli/cf regardless of the power of the cards.

*dude, i've played a LOT with dual 7970s and that microstuttering thing is bull sh!it it has never happened to me and it didn't happen back when i had dual GTX460s.
>>> The microstuttering effect is more prevalent with lower power cards, not with top end cards as the article indicates.

*for some 1080p games CF and SLI ARE required to max them out on 3D @120Hz!
>>> along with triple monitor gaming as I point out in my rant.

*a lot of games benefit from SLI/CF @1080p because of the higher framerate.... and before you say anything i DO notice the difference between 60 120 and 240 Hz.
>>> I believe you. My monitors refresh at 60hz, and 60fps is a hard coded limit for some games.
When CRT monitors were prevalent, it took a refresh rate to keep the image steady. Today's LCD monitors refresh differently.
No doubt faster is better.

*of course the cost of dual cards is higher, what were you expecting?
>>> If you are on a budget, cost is an issue.

*who really cares about power consumption when you have the right PSU?
>>> Nobody, at least if you don't have to pay your own electric bill. Ans, probably not much then either. But, a stronger psu than needed will cost more.

*i partially agree with the temperature thing...the lower card runs a bit hotter but not if you have a decent case, besides... the heat issues were greatly reduced since the introduction of 28nm GPUs.
>>> True enough. I also happen to like smaller cases. A M-ATX motherboard may support cf/sli, but of necessity, the cards must be adjacent.


*yeah, i know not everyone does but... we're talking about the OP, he might have some money to spare.

*Well, i've used Quad 7970s, dual 7970s and dual GTX460s and not even with the GTX460s i experienced any kind of microstuttering.

*well... i was born and lived in germany for a long time and well.... electricity in the states if free compared to the prices in here....anyways... how much can a few watts save you a year?
September 5, 2012 7:04:53 PM

jcsully71 said:

With my limited budget, I may not be able to feed my kids for a week, but I would rather spend a bit extra to ensure my system will last a bit longer. I'll just send the kids to grandmas for a few days so they don't starve. lol


i don't know if that's true but if it is then you're disgusting....how can you prefer buying a TOY over food for your children?
September 5, 2012 8:01:15 PM

The reason I want a motherboard with sli is for a quick upgrade path in the future. If I had of bought an sli board last time I wouldn't have this dilema now, I would have just dropped in another gtx560 and 4gb extra of ram. I may never use that option, but for the difference of 20 - 30 pounds on the motherboard, I think its worth it.
If amd hadn't messed up with it's bulldozer chip I would have upgraded to that as well. Now I have to jump ship from amd to intel, which I am not happy about because amd have always been good value for money ever since the late 90's early 00's.


@ geofelt - A very interesting link you posted about microstuttering. I didn't know this issue even existed. The artical did suggest that two high end nvidia sli cards suffered less, however it is still present. - I would probably find this to be just as annoying as screen tear with v-sync turned off.

@ quilciri - Overclocking is an option. I have an ocz gladiator max cpu cooler. I had prime95 running for 1 hour and the temp maxed out at 46c ambient temp at 28c, so that does leave some room for overclocking before I hit the 55c max.
You made a good point about a maxed out gpu vs a maxed out cpu. In light of this, I will wait until I receive the game run some benchmarks to see if I max out the gpu before the cpu and vice versa.

@ idroid - Yeah the 1000w psu is overkill, a 750w would leave some overhead to cover all possible future configurations and they are at a affordable price point. I do like amd cards but the borderlands 2 game does make use of physx and I do like the extra eyecandy even if it doesn't add to the gameplay. I know there is only handfull of games that use it but I do own four of them.


Thanks to everyone else who took part in this discussion for all your thoughts and advice.
September 5, 2012 8:05:49 PM

@ jcsully71 - I Hope your joking, your children should come first.
a c 132 à CPUs
a c 141 V Motherboard
September 5, 2012 10:30:33 PM

As a long-time proponent of "good enough," which most AMD CPUs actually still are, too many current reviews are beginning to suggest that Intel is really pulling ahead, and that "good enough" may soon no longer allow an AMD processor.
And, it IS the processor that needs to be replaced here; the GPU meets the recommended requirements, but the AMD Athlon II does not.
An AMD 965BE meets those recommendations, certainly; but where do you go from there? I'm sure a hyperthreaded i3 does too, and when that becomes weak, you can just pop in an i5 and you're good for a few more years at least. Need more? Then overclock the i5, or if it's a matter of cores (so far it isn't, at least not in games), get an i7.
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September 5, 2012 10:46:35 PM

TheCheeseGoat said:
If amd hadn't messed up with it's bulldozer chip I would have upgraded to that as well. Now I have to jump ship from amd to intel, which I am not happy about because amd have always been good value for money ever since the late 90's early 00's.
.


I'm in the same boat. I'm going to wait on reviews for the piledriver chips before bailing.

AMD shipped the 4130 last week. I'm surprised/worried that AMD didn't send samples out for review before then, but gonna wait for the reviews on 'em anyway, esp. how they overclock.
September 6, 2012 9:18:38 AM

The amd fx4130 is the same as a 4100 and a 4170 - just a different clock speed.
September 6, 2012 9:19:35 AM

Smelly_Pickle said:
I have the same Dilemma. I have a Toshiba Qosimo. Will it play it?


Sure it will - What a quality laptop you have.
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a b V Motherboard
September 6, 2012 1:36:35 PM

TheCheeseGoat said:
The amd fx4130 is the same as a 4100 and a 4170 - just a different clock speed.


The 4130 is the first of the piledriver chips. it is meant to replace the 4100. the 4100 and 4170 are both bulldozer chipsets.
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a b V Motherboard
September 7, 2012 2:46:21 PM

Derp. My mistake. Reading is fundamental.

In any case, the piledrivers are due out this fall; unless your gaming itch has to be scratched immediately, it's worth waiting on the reviews.
!