BF2 Stats Theory

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

With the coming of BF2, myself and several others have been worried over
recent statements found on websites pertaining to EA/DICE's idea about
statistics and they'll only be collected by EA/DICE *if* the server is
either an EA server or it's rented from EA. Most of the community game-
servers that's aware of this plan aren't very happy with the plan, but
there's not a lot we can do about it, other than send EA complaint
email.

Well, just speculating here, but I bet there's some "folks in the know"
reading this group and they may have a little insight into the
operations of this stat system. I'm aware that certain weapons will only
be available if you "rank" at a certain level, based on EA's stats
database. Therefore, one must assume, when you login to a server,
"something" communicates back to EA. Ok, we can further speculate that
perhaps only certain IP addresses (rented from EA or actual EA servers)
are allowed to communicate with the stats system. Fine. However....

If a player joins a server and if the server communicates with the stats
server to find out the ranking of this person, in order to open weapons
for this person and rank for commander/squad leaders, then we must
assume, "something" communicates back to the server. Now then, I know I
am assuming a lot here, however, this isn't rocket science, I work with
similar software packages daily. What I am getting at:

Since all of this communication is taking place, since never in the
history of EA games has encryption been utilized (which would virtually
eliminate some forms of hacks), I would further speculate that a
enterprising software guru could open up these weapons for everyone, not
just folks with "X" amount of rank. Chances are, it's a simple switch in
the server package that allows the weapons to be opened or a little more
complicated, a switch is set to allow keyhash/player I.D. "Y" to have
weapon "X". That being the case, I don't see why the information cannot
be sniffed on the network, interpreted and then develop our own stats
database, send the information back to the server in question and allow
the weapons/commander mode, etc. to be opened up OR simply open the
weapons up to all players on the server and keep commander mode/squad
leader mode turned off, as suggested by many that's been discussing this
issue. Consider this, sniffing the network for the data being sent and
recieved isn't in it's essence, reverse engineering, as this data will
probably be sent over clear (not encrypted) channels. Therefore, finding
the data and injecting the proper data back into the server (probably)
doesn't break any EULA.

Thoughts?


/CF
15 answers Last reply
More about stats theory
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

    On Tue, 31 May 2005 22:56:32 +0200, Colonel_Flagg
    <colonel_flagg@_NOSOUPFORJ00_internetwarzone.org> wrote:


    >
    > Thoughts?
    >
    >
    >
    > /CF

    I think it will be possible unlock all weapons on unranked servers either
    with a server mod or the option will be added in a patch. I also think
    there will be more ranked servers than the official EA ones. ISP's and
    gaming networks like Boomtown will probbably be allowed to run ranked
    servers if they are approwed by EA.

    --
    Flashhart
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

    "Flashhart" <Flashhart@spamtrap.no> wrote in message
    >
    > I think it will be possible unlock all weapons on unranked servers either
    > with a server mod or the option will be added in a patch.

    Or indeed the functionality will be there from day one as an option for the
    system admin. Currently this is the great unknow.

    > I also think there will be more ranked servers than the official EA ones.
    > ISP's and gaming networks like Boomtown will probbably be allowed to run
    > ranked servers if they are approwed by EA.

    Yea "affilicates" as EA put it.

    L.
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

    In article <429cdb06$0$40241$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>,
    nospam@lorian.nod says...
    >
    > "Flashhart" <Flashhart@spamtrap.no> wrote in message
    > >
    > > I think it will be possible unlock all weapons on unranked servers either
    > > with a server mod or the option will be added in a patch.
    >
    > Or indeed the functionality will be there from day one as an option for the
    > system admin. Currently this is the great unknow.
    >
    > > I also think there will be more ranked servers than the official EA ones.
    > > ISP's and gaming networks like Boomtown will probbably be allowed to run
    > > ranked servers if they are approwed by EA.
    >
    > Yea "affilicates" as EA put it.
    >
    > L.
    >
    >
    >


    yea, and "affiliates" means "screw the little guy".


    /CF
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

    Colonel_Flagg wrote:
    > With the coming of BF2, myself and several others have been worried over
    > recent statements found on websites pertaining to EA/DICE's idea about
    > statistics and they'll only be collected by EA/DICE *if* the server is
    > either an EA server or it's rented from EA. Most of the community game-
    > servers that's aware of this plan aren't very happy with the plan, but
    > there's not a lot we can do about it, other than send EA complaint
    > email.
    >
    > Well, just speculating here, but I bet there's some "folks in the know"
    > reading this group and they may have a little insight into the
    > operations of this stat system. I'm aware that certain weapons will only
    > be available if you "rank" at a certain level, based on EA's stats
    > database. Therefore, one must assume, when you login to a server,
    > "something" communicates back to EA. Ok, we can further speculate that
    > perhaps only certain IP addresses (rented from EA or actual EA servers)
    > are allowed to communicate with the stats system. Fine. However....
    >

    <snip>


    > Thoughts?
    >
    >
    >
    > /CF

    with BF1942 and BFV, if any server, dedicated or non dedicated has the
    correct ports open, then its tracked by EA, DICE, PB and BF-Tracks and
    prob the MIB too ;)

    BF2 will be new and flashy, but when the established Mods transfer over
    and the new ones start up on BF2, whos really going to care about
    official EA stats....
    we play BF1942 for the fun of the total conversion mods.

    I know that you can collect most of the 'new' BF2 style stats already
    with BF1942, just that hardly any private server does it.
    I have seen a Clan webpage with BF1942 gameplay stats including engineer
    medic and similar stats collected for their members.
    regards [AGB] malcolm
  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

    In article <aN6ne.24612$g66.3545@attbi_s71>, m.tamblynREMOVE@mchsi.com
    says...

    >
    > with BF1942 and BFV, if any server, dedicated or non dedicated has the
    > correct ports open, then its tracked by EA, DICE, PB and BF-Tracks and
    > prob the MIB too ;)
    >
    > BF2 will be new and flashy, but when the established Mods transfer over
    > and the new ones start up on BF2, whos really going to care about
    > official EA stats....
    > we play BF1942 for the fun of the total conversion mods.
    >
    > I know that you can collect most of the 'new' BF2 style stats already
    > with BF1942, just that hardly any private server does it.
    > I have seen a Clan webpage with BF1942 gameplay stats including engineer
    > medic and similar stats collected for their members.
    > regards [AGB] malcolm
    >


    it's not the stats that i am worried about it's the opening of the
    weapons, only available to those with "X" amount of stats, as
    accumulated by EA/DICE's stats server. the stories that are being told
    on the different BF websites is, according to your stats, you will be
    ranked by EA/DICE. increased rank will equal new weapons, etc. not
    available to those of a lesser rank. small-time servers, not rented from
    ea, won't be included in the stats database. that being the case, i want
    to find a way to open these weapons up to anyone.

    to counter someone's claim that they *think* it will be a simple setting
    in the configuration file for the server: i don't think that will be the
    case at all. if that is the case, EA/DICE will be losing out because
    their servers will be based on rank and where rank will determine the
    opening of the new weapons. if they allow a simple configuration
    setting, whereby the small-scale game admins, like myself, can simply
    set a flag and allow the opening of these weapons, this would be one
    more reason to NOT visit EA/DICE servers in lieu of visiting small-time
    gaming communities, such as mine, which have the weapons already opened
    up.

    i don't think, in the beginning of all this, it's gonna be as simple as
    setting a flag in the con file and being done with it. i believe it's
    gonna take a little insight into the network communications between the
    server(s) and the EA/DICE stats server and vice-versa, then using this
    information to inject the proper signals back into the server, either
    through our own stats database server (which i currently run, but will
    be dramatically different).

    i could very well be wrong about all this and i am just trying to think
    ahead for "what if" situations and prepare, perhaps form a "team" to try
    and vanquish ourselves from the constraints of EA/DICE. the fact of the
    matter is, folks should have an equal opportunity to use each and every
    weapon in the game without some elitist bastard, which *could* use
    cheats/hacks to gain access to higher rank and priveleges, to only have
    access to a particular weapon.

    *if* by chance one of these weapons is capable of overwhelming power
    (say a 1st generation VSS in DC) and *if* only available to those with
    "X" amount of rank, then what's the difference between this weapon and a
    radar hack that's only used by a few people? it's an advantage over the
    other players in the game, accessible by gaining rank. a cheat is
    accessible by those with enough research skills to find it, but, as with
    "rank" everyone has the opportunity (see www.google.com) to find/use it
    (if you have enough skill to find/download/use it).

    am i comparing a weapon available in the game with a cheat? yes. is this
    a stretch? perhaps. again, it's just a theory and with BF2 around the
    corner, i know we'll need to see the game to find out exactly how it's
    gonna go.


    /CF
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

    "Colonel_Flagg" <colonel_flagg@_NOSOUPFORJ00_internetwarzone.org> wrote in
    message news:MPG.1d06998ab4db0cd3989773@nntp.charter.net...
    > With the coming of BF2, myself and several others have been worried over
    > recent statements found on websites pertaining to EA/DICE's idea about
    > statistics and they'll only be collected by EA/DICE *if* the server is
    > either an EA server or it's rented from EA. Most of the community game-
    > servers that's aware of this plan aren't very happy with the plan, but
    > there's not a lot we can do about it, other than send EA complaint
    > email.
    >

    The reason EA/Dice don't want 'public' servers able to collect rank stat
    points is because of cheating. I can give you a prime example of it that
    WILL (not might) happen in BF2. In the game AA they collect stats, at the
    beginning anyone could run a stats server by simply asking the AA devs. I
    know, because I ran one for a while. What happened was that certain clans
    would run a server , only allow their players to play on it. Except they
    wouldn't actually play per se. They would simply let one side win constantly
    over and over again, collecting points by winning. Since you didn't lose any
    points by losing the round, nothing was lost. In fact, you didn't have to do
    anything to win, if the time ran out then defense would win automatically.

    Make no mistake about it, if public servers can collect stats, this is
    exactly what will happen in BF2, clans or groups will figure out ways to
    cheat the system, in fact, in your explanation it is exactly what you want
    to do, which proves my point.
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

    "Colonel_Flagg"

    > to counter someone's claim that they *think* it will be a simple setting
    > in the configuration file for the server:

    Hardly a claim, I said "Or indeed the functionality will be there from day
    one as an option for the
    system admin. Currently this is the great unknow(n)."

    > gonna take a little insight into the network communications between the
    > server(s) and the EA/DICE stats server and vice-versa, then using this
    > information to inject the proper signals back into the server,

    IF the weapons are locked then it'll just take a mini-mod to unlock them
    all, and there will be a race on to be the first one to produce it.

    L.
  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

    General wrote:
    > "Colonel_Flagg" <colonel_flagg@_NOSOUPFORJ00_internetwarzone.org> wrote in
    > message news:MPG.1d06998ab4db0cd3989773@nntp.charter.net...
    >
    >>With the coming of BF2, myself and several others have been worried over
    >>recent statements found on websites pertaining to EA/DICE's idea about
    >>statistics and they'll only be collected by EA/DICE *if* the server is
    >>either an EA server or it's rented from EA. Most of the community game-
    >>servers that's aware of this plan aren't very happy with the plan, but
    >>there's not a lot we can do about it, other than send EA complaint
    >>email.
    >>
    >
    >
    > The reason EA/Dice don't want 'public' servers able to collect rank stat
    > points is because of cheating. I can give you a prime example of it that
    > WILL (not might) happen in BF2. In the game AA they collect stats, at the
    > beginning anyone could run a stats server by simply asking the AA devs. I
    > know, because I ran one for a while. What happened was that certain clans
    > would run a server , only allow their players to play on it. Except they
    > wouldn't actually play per se. They would simply let one side win constantly
    > over and over again, collecting points by winning. Since you didn't lose any
    > points by losing the round, nothing was lost. In fact, you didn't have to do
    > anything to win, if the time ran out then defense would win automatically.
    >
    > Make no mistake about it, if public servers can collect stats, this is
    > exactly what will happen in BF2, clans or groups will figure out ways to
    > cheat the system, in fact, in your explanation it is exactly what you want
    > to do, which proves my point.
    >
    >

    Well seeing as he's already been caught using cheats in the past... I'm
    not surprised.
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

    In article <9LSdnbIXz__HCwDfRVn-qw@rogers.com>, g@eneral.com says...
    >
    > "Colonel_Flagg" <colonel_flagg@_NOSOUPFORJ00_internetwarzone.org> wrote in
    > message news:MPG.1d06998ab4db0cd3989773@nntp.charter.net...
    > > With the coming of BF2, myself and several others have been worried over
    > > recent statements found on websites pertaining to EA/DICE's idea about
    > > statistics and they'll only be collected by EA/DICE *if* the server is
    > > either an EA server or it's rented from EA. Most of the community game-
    > > servers that's aware of this plan aren't very happy with the plan, but
    > > there's not a lot we can do about it, other than send EA complaint
    > > email.
    > >
    >
    > The reason EA/Dice don't want 'public' servers able to collect rank stat
    > points is because of cheating. I can give you a prime example of it that
    > WILL (not might) happen in BF2. In the game AA they collect stats, at the
    > beginning anyone could run a stats server by simply asking the AA devs. I
    > know, because I ran one for a while. What happened was that certain clans
    > would run a server , only allow their players to play on it. Except they
    > wouldn't actually play per se. They would simply let one side win constantly
    > over and over again, collecting points by winning. Since you didn't lose any
    > points by losing the round, nothing was lost. In fact, you didn't have to do
    > anything to win, if the time ran out then defense would win automatically.
    >
    > Make no mistake about it, if public servers can collect stats, this is
    > exactly what will happen in BF2, clans or groups will figure out ways to
    > cheat the system, in fact, in your explanation it is exactly what you want
    > to do, which proves my point.
    >
    >
    >


    no, it does not prove your point. i want things equal across the board
    for everyone that plays on MY server. i don't want someone, as you say,
    to build up their stats on an easy server, then come to my server and
    open up weapons and play against some of the folks in my community with
    equal skill, but without the weapons. i will mod my server to allow the
    weapons for everyone or, i will turn off the ability of ANYONE to get
    the weapons. it's not fair, simply because EA says so, for one person to
    get a weapon and someone else cannot. furthermore, i cannot see how
    anyone would think it is fair. all it is, it's a marketing ploy by EA to
    sell their server space.

    it's laughable to even think that current EA servers contain players
    with more skill than individual clan and game server communities. at any
    given time, i can take a random sample of players from most any clan or
    game server community, go into an EA server and absolutely pulverize the
    players on the EA server. the same will be said of the next generation
    of BF2 players on EA servers.

    i'm like Lorian in this, except i want everyone to have this mini-mod as
    quickly as possible and i'm not worried about who releases it or who
    gets credit for it. just as long as it's even across the board and
    allows everyone to have access to everything available in the game.


    /CF
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

    In article <66udnVUxha83VADfRVnyuQ@pipex.net>, spam@spam.com says...
    > General wrote:
    > > "Colonel_Flagg" <colonel_flagg@_NOSOUPFORJ00_internetwarzone.org> wrote in
    > > message news:MPG.1d06998ab4db0cd3989773@nntp.charter.net...
    > >
    > >>With the coming of BF2, myself and several others have been worried over
    > >>recent statements found on websites pertaining to EA/DICE's idea about
    > >>statistics and they'll only be collected by EA/DICE *if* the server is
    > >>either an EA server or it's rented from EA. Most of the community game-
    > >>servers that's aware of this plan aren't very happy with the plan, but
    > >>there's not a lot we can do about it, other than send EA complaint
    > >>email.
    > >>
    > >
    > >
    > > The reason EA/Dice don't want 'public' servers able to collect rank stat
    > > points is because of cheating. I can give you a prime example of it that
    > > WILL (not might) happen in BF2. In the game AA they collect stats, at the
    > > beginning anyone could run a stats server by simply asking the AA devs. I
    > > know, because I ran one for a while. What happened was that certain clans
    > > would run a server , only allow their players to play on it. Except they
    > > wouldn't actually play per se. They would simply let one side win constantly
    > > over and over again, collecting points by winning. Since you didn't lose any
    > > points by losing the round, nothing was lost. In fact, you didn't have to do
    > > anything to win, if the time ran out then defense would win automatically.
    > >
    > > Make no mistake about it, if public servers can collect stats, this is
    > > exactly what will happen in BF2, clans or groups will figure out ways to
    > > cheat the system, in fact, in your explanation it is exactly what you want
    > > to do, which proves my point.
    > >
    > >
    >
    > Well seeing as he's already been caught using cheats in the past... I'm
    > not surprised.
    >


    we've been through this before but i'll go ahead and let you troll me
    into again.

    sure, i've checked out the cheats, and i will again and again. i will
    also recommend that my admins check out the cheats they find as well.
    however, the one part of testing cheats i will change is to not do it on
    open-public-servers, i'll create a test server and try the cheats out
    there. was it a mistake to use the cheats on a public server? yes. will
    it stop me from testing these cheats to see if they get around
    punkbuster or whatever anti-cheat system is the flavor of the month? no.
    testing cheats such as this PROVES punkbuster doesn't work effectively.
    for that matter, nothing is 100% effective against cheats. period. the
    best thing we have in our arsenal against cheating is good admins, those
    that "caught" me are perfectly suited for the job. punkbuster didn't do
    it. which is exactly my point.


    /CF
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

    Colonel_Flagg wrote:
    > In article <66udnVUxha83VADfRVnyuQ@pipex.net>, spam@spam.com says...
    >
    >>General wrote:
    >>
    >>>"Colonel_Flagg" <colonel_flagg@_NOSOUPFORJ00_internetwarzone.org> wrote in
    >>>message news:MPG.1d06998ab4db0cd3989773@nntp.charter.net...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>With the coming of BF2, myself and several others have been worried over
    >>>>recent statements found on websites pertaining to EA/DICE's idea about
    >>>>statistics and they'll only be collected by EA/DICE *if* the server is
    >>>>either an EA server or it's rented from EA. Most of the community game-
    >>>>servers that's aware of this plan aren't very happy with the plan, but
    >>>>there's not a lot we can do about it, other than send EA complaint
    >>>>email.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>The reason EA/Dice don't want 'public' servers able to collect rank stat
    >>>points is because of cheating. I can give you a prime example of it that
    >>>WILL (not might) happen in BF2. In the game AA they collect stats, at the
    >>>beginning anyone could run a stats server by simply asking the AA devs. I
    >>>know, because I ran one for a while. What happened was that certain clans
    >>>would run a server , only allow their players to play on it. Except they
    >>>wouldn't actually play per se. They would simply let one side win constantly
    >>>over and over again, collecting points by winning. Since you didn't lose any
    >>>points by losing the round, nothing was lost. In fact, you didn't have to do
    >>>anything to win, if the time ran out then defense would win automatically.
    >>>
    >>>Make no mistake about it, if public servers can collect stats, this is
    >>>exactly what will happen in BF2, clans or groups will figure out ways to
    >>>cheat the system, in fact, in your explanation it is exactly what you want
    >>>to do, which proves my point.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >>Well seeing as he's already been caught using cheats in the past... I'm
    >>not surprised.
    >>
    >
    >
    >
    > we've been through this before but i'll go ahead and let you troll me
    > into again.
    >

    I find it amusing that you consider my making a statement of "FACT" is
    an attempt at trolling. I remember your lies, sudden changes in story,
    the backtracking the avoidance of questions asked. Anyone interested
    should do a little research on google newsgroups to see the whole story.

    All show smacktard behavior. I'm simply pointing out to others that
    might not be aware of you open admission to using cheats on public
    servers... You can try and justify it anyway you like (and boy have you
    tried and tried and tried with no success), you Sir are a cheater,
    you've most likely always been a cheater and will probably always be a
    cheater.

    The sad thing is, by all accounts you are not a bad player when not
    cheating. But there is never going to be any justification for using
    cheats... pass them on to the punkbuster team and let them do it.
  12. Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

    >it's laughable to even think that current EA servers contain players
    >with more skill than individual clan and game server communities. at any
    >given time, i can take a random sample of players from most any clan or
    >game server community, go into an EA server and absolutely pulverize the
    >players on the EA server. the same will be said of the next generation
    >of BF2 players on EA servers.

    I presume that the intention of the stats (besides pushing EA servers)
    is to try and improve public server play, i.e. a good player (with
    special weapons) will have more influence on the game, than a smacktard
    with the basics. I suggest that a smacktard running riot on a public
    server may decide to play a little nicer, if the alternative is a kick
    and subsequent loss of stats and special weapons.

    How it will work on private servers is anyones guess - I would hope
    that the server admin would be able to decide whether stats are used or
    not.
  13. Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

    In article <1117719846.308445.52870@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
    tangerine_sedge@hotmail.com says...
    >
    > How it will work on private servers is anyones guess - I would hope
    > that the server admin would be able to decide whether stats are used or
    > not.
    >


    exactly. the problem is, the private servers, not on EA-rented servers,
    won't have the option, from what EA's been quoted as saying. From what's
    been said and read, EA will have a stats server to issue rank, if you're
    not on an EA-rented server or an actual EA server, then the stats won't
    accumulate and therefore, considering that the special weapons won't be
    open to all, only those with "rank" as issued by the EA stats server
    will be able to open these special weapons, which, in my and other's
    opinions, could be considered a cheat.

    we'll see how it goes, but i speculate:

    1) EA servers will eventually go unattended by admins, smacktards will
    run rampant, skill level will drop.

    2) Once the skill level has dropped, good players will go to the EA
    servers and accumulate score/stats/rank, then go back to the
    clan/community servers that have the weapons turned on, use their EA-
    rank gained from easy servers to grab special weapons on community/clan
    servers and/or use it to gain commander/squad leader mode away from the
    folks that play on the server all the time or away from someone with
    more ability/skill at that particular weapon/mode.

    anyway, it's all speculation at this point. 19 days to go, then we'll
    start seeing the patterns.


    /CF
  14. Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

    tangerine_sedge wrote:
    >>it's laughable to even think that current EA servers contain players
    >>with more skill than individual clan and game server communities. at any
    >>given time, i can take a random sample of players from most any clan or
    >>game server community, go into an EA server and absolutely pulverize the
    >>players on the EA server. the same will be said of the next generation
    >>of BF2 players on EA servers.
    >
    >
    > I presume that the intention of the stats (besides pushing EA servers)
    > is to try and improve public server play, i.e. a good player (with
    > special weapons) will have more influence on the game, than a smacktard
    > with the basics. I suggest that a smacktard running riot on a public
    > server may decide to play a little nicer, if the alternative is a kick
    > and subsequent loss of stats and special weapons.
    >
    > How it will work on private servers is anyones guess - I would hope
    > that the server admin would be able to decide whether stats are used or
    > not.
    >

    lots of cool toys in DC, DCX, DCR, DCF et al, but at the end of the day,
    the M16 and the AK47 are the Kings, 30 bullets, good rate of fire,
    less weapon mass to swing, therefore easier aim in tight spots,
    and very accurate if you practice a lot, prob true is real life too.
    regards [AGB] malcolm
  15. Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

    Flashhart wrote:
    > On Tue, 31 May 2005 22:56:32 +0200, Colonel_Flagg
    > <colonel_flagg@_NOSOUPFORJ00_internetwarzone.org> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >>
    >> Thoughts?
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> /CF
    >
    >
    > I think it will be possible unlock all weapons on unranked servers
    > either with a server mod or the option will be added in a patch. I also
    > think there will be more ranked servers than the official EA ones.
    > ISP's and gaming networks like Boomtown will probbably be allowed to
    > run ranked servers if they are approwed by EA.
    >

    special weapon #1 that we know about so far is a noob rotary shotgun,
    more of a melee weapon than a serious infantry tool.
    imagine the recoil on a heavy gun like that.....
    it will look cool, sound cool and kill noobs with ease,
    but experienced infantry with assault rifles can smile.
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