Questions About SAS, SATA, and Hard Drives

[L1ghtF00t]

Ok, so im planning on getting two hard drives (both internal):

1. SAMSUNG 830 Series MZ-7PC256B/WW 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
2. HP Enterprise 516828-B21 600GB 15000 RPM SAS 6Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive

Now, what i need to know is, if I use both of these in my PC:

1. Will i need a SAS controller card?

2. If i do need a SAS controller card, will i need a SATA controller card as well or can i just hook up the SATA drive like normal?

3. Will i need SAS cables to connect the HDD to the controller card? And which of these would be the best for my HDD for a hardcore gaming rig?

4. What's the difference between internal and external connectors, in relation to the SAS controller card?

5. Despite cost, what would be the best SAS controller card for a hardcore gaming rig, if a card is needed at all?

6. Anything else I need to know?


One last thing I need to know about surge suppressors:

How do i know what AC Suppression Joule Rating I will need for this PSU:
1. EVGA SuperNOVA NEX1500 Classified 120-PG-1500-XR 1500W SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Power Supply?

2. Can you recommend a high quality surge suppressor that will provide an output of at least 1600 Watts and a high enough AC Suppression Joule Rating for the above mentioned PSU? (again, im not worried about cost. i want quality, not cheap).

Thanks for replying! I know it's alot of questions, but I don't know alot about SAS. I've always used SATA in the past, but i like the fact that SAS provides much higher RPMs than SATA.

 

[L1ghtF00t]

bump. i need these questions answered within a day or two, so i can get the components i need to start my build. thanks guys.

 

[TheBigTroll]

bumping will get you banned sometimes just saying

1: why are you using a SAS drive? you dont need it unless you are building a server
2: 15k rpm drives arent as good as SSDs
3:the evga power supply is TOTAL OVERKILL. all you need is 500w for a normal rig

You can use sata drives in a SAS controller but you cant use a SAS drive on a sata controller

 

[L1ghtF00t]

bumping will get you banned sometimes just saying - sorry i didn't know

1: why are you using a SAS drive? you dont need it unless you are building a server - i assumed that they would be faster than 10k HDD and SSD

2: 15k rpm drives arent as good as SSDs - ok, cool so if i get another SSD, then i will get a faster drive, but it will cost a little more money if i get an equivalent capacity.

3:the evga power supply is TOTAL OVERKILL. all you need is 500w for a normal rig - im not exactly building a "normal rig", lol, more like a super hardcore gaming rig, so i am going to need the power.

You can use sata drives in a SAS controller but you cant use a SAS drive on a sata controller - yes, i knew that much, but thanks anyway.

also, can you answer these questions please? thanks!

How do i know what AC Suppression Joule Rating I will need for this PSU:
1. EVGA SuperNOVA NEX1500 Classified 120-PG-1500-XR 1500W SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Power Supply?

2. Can you recommend a high quality surge suppressor that will provide an Output Watt Capacity of at least 1600 Watts and a high enough AC Suppression Joule Rating for the above mentioned PSU? (again, im not worried about cost. i want quality, not cheap).

 

[TheBigTroll]

what are you building exactly? there are better units out there than the evga

ac suppressors are not really my thing but i do recommend a UPS given it cleans out power and provides a battery backup and it takes any spikes in your electrical system instead of putting it through the psu causing damages

you are much better off with a 256gb SSD instead of 2x128gb given lower chances of failure. RAID 0 wont give you noticeable differences in speed

10k rpm drives are also dumb given SSDs are yet again faster.

 

[L1ghtF00t]

im building a hardcore gaming rig. here's a list of the components i plan on using, but im still working out kinks:

also, i've got a couple of questions about my 2 hard drives.
1. I know i will need cables for the bare drive, but will i need cables for the SSD because i didn't see any cables in the pictures on newegg.com?
2. Can you tell me which cables i will need and give me some links to them at newegg.com? thanks

why don't i just get 2 SSDs? i need 1TB of space, and i don't want to pay 2k for a 1TB SSD.

Hardware –

Computer Case: $399.99
LIAN LI PC-P80NB Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case

Motherboard: $469.98
ASUS Rampage IV Extreme LGA 2011 Intel X79 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Extended ATX Intel Motherboard

Processor: $599.98
Intel Core i7-3930K Sandy Bridge-E 3.2GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 2011 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80619i73930K

RAM: $489.98
(2 Sets) CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2400 Desktop Memory Model CMZ16GX3M4A2400C9R

Graphics Card: $1357.84
DUAL  EVGA 04G-P4-3688-KR GeForce GTX 680 Classified 4GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

Audio Card: $201.98
Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D Fatal1ty Champion (70SB135400000) 5.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Express x1 Interface Sound Card with Sound Blaster I/O

Network Card: $134.99
Intel EXPI9402PTBLK Two Gigabit Copper Server Connections 10/ 100/ 1000Mbps PCI-Express 2 x RJ45 – OEM

CPU Cooling Device: $139.99
CORSAIR H100 (CWCH100) Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler

SSD: $226.99
SAMSUNG 830 Series MZ-7PC256B/WW 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

HDD: $289.99
Western Digital VelociRaptor WD1000DHTZ 1TB 10000 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

Blu-Ray Drive: $99.99
LG Black 14X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 12X BD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA BDXL Blu-Ray Burner with SW, 3D Play Back - BH14NS40

DVD Drive: $43.98
PLEXTOR Internal DVD Super Multi 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 24X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA Model PX-L890SA LightScribe Support (needs SATA power cable)

Power Protection: $68.78
TRIPP LITE ISOBAR6DBS 6 ft. 6 Outlets 2850 joules Home/Business Theater Surge Suppressor (may need higher joule rating, definitely need a higher wattage rating)

PSU: $464.08
EVGA SuperNOVA NEX1500 Classified 120-PG-1500-XR 1500W SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Power Supply

 

[TheBigTroll]

honestly,i can build a rig for 1500 that would perform the same in games.

get this
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/h5us

and this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131819


1: my i5 3570k will perform the same as the 3930k in games
2: x79 is useless to you if you are not doing rendering work or 4 way SLI (which is useless to you)
3:the h100 is not what i would get. either go full out and build a custom loop or get a good air heatsink like the noctua nh-d14. if you dont like the colour, you can get a phanteks cooler in different colours
4:you dont need that much of ram unless you are doing video work
5:creative sound cards are crap compared to asus cards like the dx 7.1. if you dont have good headphones, you wont even see much of a difference
6:yep velcoraptors wont benefit you
7:do you even watch blu-rays? if you do, just get a blu-ray drive. you dont need 2 given optical media is dying out
8:you definitly dont need that level of wattage.
9:get a ups

if you are gaming on a 60hz monitor, id say skip SLI given you cant even see the extra frames provided

 

[TheBigTroll]

and you also definitly dont need the NICs given your internet router wont even provide that much speed that they are capable of putting out

if you want to spend a little more on the motherboard, you can get the maximus v formula (thunderfx if you want a sound card and a diablo 3 mousepad).

 

[L1ghtF00t]

and what about the cables for the two hard drives? can u give me some links to newegg for these?

1. I know i will need cables for the bare drive, but will i need cables for the SSD because i didn't see any cables in the pictures on newegg.com?
2. Can you tell me which cables i will need and give me some links to them at newegg.com? thanks

 

[TheBigTroll]

and what about the cables for the two hard drives? can u give me some links to newegg for these?

1. I know i will need cables for the bare drive, but will i need cables for the SSD because i didn't see any cables in the pictures on newegg.com?
2. Can you tell me which cables i will need and give me some links to them at newegg.com? thanks

look at my build first

all cables are included in the motherboard. there should be nothing else you need. the only thing you might need is a 8pin extension cable as the one from the power supply i suggest might be a bit short

 

[L1ghtF00t]

i don't see any SATA power cables in the pictures that come with that motherboard. so how do you plan on powering your hard drives?

 

[TheBigTroll]

i don't see any SATA power cables in the pictures that come with that motherboard. so how do you plan on powering your hard drives?

the power supply has SATA power plugs. i thought everyone knew that. the motherboard comes with a SATA cable to transfer data

 

[L1ghtF00t]

oh, ok, of course. i should've known that.

ok, thanks Troll, u've been a big help.

 

[TheBigTroll]

so what build are you going with now?

 

[L1ghtF00t]

dude, im not worried about money. and i5? please! im building a cheetah on cocaine here, the best that I can without just pulling the benjamins outta my wallet and lighting them up with a blow torch.
the build you have suggested would be a step down from what i have now, let alone what i plan to build. so, please don't be offended, but I think you know the answer to your question.
HOWEVER, i have thought about changing up my sound card, if that makes you feel any better. i have also thought about getting rid of the optical media drive as well, but to be honest its a backup in case the blu-ray ever fails. i don't understand why a 10k rpm velociraptor won't benefit me, it'll be better than the 7200 rpm i have now, and its the fastest/best HDD i could get without going to a SSD or a SAS drive. and i don't see a need for a UPS, if the power goes out, it goes out, i don't care. if it mattered that much i would just start my generator up with an exhaust pipe out the window beside me. the h100 is a closed loop and it will be much easier than an open/custom loop system to install, and it will do a good enough job of cooling the CPU. so, please respect my decision to decline your build suggestion.

 

[TheBigTroll]

if you are building a beast, then it makes even more sense to get a full out watercooling loop

if the power goes out on you, your 2000 dollar rig could die

10k rpm hard drives will probably give you 1 sec overall increase in movie loading and thats about it. games are to be stored on a SSD.

if you are looking for a extreme build, this should be better
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/h6Ih

-msi lightning 680s are better than evga classifieds. unlocked voltage=more oc headroom=it runs faster. also runs cooler
-the phanteks is the best cooler other than going with custom. h100 isnt quite worth it
-a slightly bigger case would be the 800D. i chose the 650d for compactness
-regular 7200rpm drive is more than enough speed for loading movies and files
-the sound card is great for the money. if you want a metal shroud for it, get the asus pheobus. but you will hear near 0 difference with a regular headset
-3d monitor is necessary to see the extra performance provided by the 680 SLI
-keyboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823129004

 

[L1ghtF00t]

if you are building a beast, then it makes even more sense to get a full out watercooling loop - i don't want to fool with an open or custom loop, it would be easier to just get/install a closed loop system. so which of these would be the better closed loop system?http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008008&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&ActiveSearchResult=True&CompareItemList=575%7C35%2D106%2D190%5E35%2D106%2D190%2DTS%2C35%2D106%2D189%5E35%2D106%2D189%2DTS%2C35%2D181%2D017%5E35%2D181%2D017%2DTS

if the power goes out on you, your 2000 dollar rig could die - that's why i will be getting a surge suppresor ( i may have forgotten to tell you that, my bad)

10k rpm hard drives will probably give you 1 sec overall increase in movie loading and thats about it. games are to be stored on a SSD. - i will be getting an SSD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147164

if you are looking for an extreme build, this should be better
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/h6Ih - ok, i might take a look at them

-msi lightning 680s are better than evga classifieds. unlocked voltage=more oc headroom=it runs faster. also runs cooler - if this is true, it probably won't last as long, and with 2, 680s i won't need to OC and i don't want to OC
-the phanteks is the best cooler other than going with custom. h100 isnt quite worth it - i don't see how a fan could ever beat liquid cooling, but ok
-a slightly bigger case would be the 800D. i chose the 650d for compactness - it is 1/2 of a cubic inch larger, lol, don't make me laugh. it has 3 less case fans and doesn't have any USB 3.0 ports
-regular 7200rpm drive is more than enough speed for loading movies and files - but didn't u say that 10k were crap, so wouldn't 7.2k be even worse?
-the sound card is great for the money. if you want a metal shroud for it, get the asus pheobus. but you will hear near 0 difference with a regular headset - ok, ill take a look; i have an above average Turtle Beach headset
-3d monitor is necessary to see the extra performance provided by the 680 SLI - ok
-keyboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6823129004 - has Cherry MX brown switches that can rather loud if i bottom out. i would prefer Cherry MX Black switches, as these will help prevent accidental keystrokes, which is perfect for hardcore gamers.

ok, i gotta go for tonight, talk more tommorow.

 

[TheBigTroll]

1: if you are not overclocking (which is easy), the lightnings are still better given they run much cooler and quieter
2:if you are not overclocking, you should just get a hyper 212 evo and call it a day. yes the h100 would perform better during very high overclocks but you said you wont so yeah...
3:10k are not crap, just not worth the money. they are double the price, and half the capacity but only give you a small bump in speed
4:red makes more sense. lower actuation force required and feel like black switches. i personally like blues since i type a lot but yeah
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823129008

if you want some backlighting
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823816002&Tpk=k90

 

[Idonno]

Well yea, I understand that this thread is old but, just in case someone stumbles across it like I did I have to post this.

Why anyone with any semblance of sanity would recommend a air cooler like the Noctua NH-D14 over a closed loop water cooling system like the H100 absolutely boggles the mind.

The sheer size that the best Air cooler has to be to be competitive is almost beyond ridiculous. The best air cooler, the Noctua NH-D14 is HUGE and can make doing anything in your case like getting to your ram a real pain. Many people that have it also secure it to the top of their case to take some of the strain off their motherboard. It's big and heavy and the only thing i would use it for is a boat anchor, It also only cools your CPU about 4 degrees cooler than the H70, 2 degrees cooler than the H80 and It loses the H100 by one degree.

I use an H70 to run a 24/7 4.4GHz OC on my 980X without any heat issues. Here's a good review with comparisons to the NH-D14 among others: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/corsair_hydro_series_h100/4.htm

The Corsair H100i @ $105.99 only costs $12 more than the Noctua NH-D14 @ $93.99 and is well worth it considering the sheer size and weight of the NH-D14

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=35-181-032&Tpk=35-181-032

For some reason traditional water cooling purists seem to hate these closed loop systems and while I agree that they are no match for more traditional water cooling, they are also much easier, require little to no maintenance and are a great alternative to the very best Air CPU coolers available.

the fact is (like it or not) a closed loop CPU cooler is an excellent alternative to a CPU air cooler for many reasons like: even a third tier closed loop CPU cooler like the H70 only has one air cooler that can beat it in CPU cooling and a top level closed loop CPU cooler like the H100 can't be beat by any air coolers for CPU cooling and their relatively small foot print and ease of use make them an an excellent alternative to a ridiculous, boat anchor sized behemoth like the Noctua NH-D14 .