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Budget Gaming build

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September 10, 2012 10:50:15 AM

Amd A8 3870k=$160
4gb ram=$40
500gb=already have one
hd 7750 or hd 6670=$140 and $120

will this be good enough to play mw3 and bf3 in medium settings 1440 900 resolution
i live in nz so everything is more expensive then us and i dont want to ship from us all the way to nz

would this be good enough for multiplier and is the proccesor good

More about : budget gaming build

a b 4 Gaming
September 10, 2012 4:22:44 PM

With a 6670, you could do hybrid Crossfire (I think that it's technically called AMD Dual-Graphics or something like that nowadays, but you get the point) with the A8's Radeon 6550D IGP. The 7750 can't do CF with the 6550D, but it should have a considerable performance advantage over that (enough to pay a mere extra $20 for, definitely) despite that loss because it's somewhat faster than the 6550D plus the 6670 while using much less power. Maybe using like 2133MHz dual-channel RAM would let the 6550D+6670 catch up to the 7750, but RAM like that is expensive.

That build will be good enough to play BF3 at ultra in 720p. Medium settings at 1440x900 with either graphics option should get great performance. I recommend getting 8GB of RAM instead of 4GB because it'd be more future-proofed and really is only a little more money.

What is the rest of your build (IE case, PSU, and anything else)?
a b 4 Gaming
September 10, 2012 4:23:39 PM

I would think either gpu will be find at that resolution.


using this as a reference if your going to use the 7750, go get like a FX-4100. if you get the 6670, getting the a8 will get you possible hybrid crossfire.
Related resources
a b 4 Gaming
September 10, 2012 4:53:45 PM

^+1
a b 4 Gaming
September 10, 2012 4:54:52 PM

You'll get MUCH better performance in all aspects (especially gaming) with a $100 CPU and $200 GPU than a $160 APU dual'd with a $140 GPU.

Such as

CPU:
Pentium G2120
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
or
FX-4100
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

paired with

GPU:
HIS IceQ X 7850
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
or
EVGA GTX 480 (bit of a power hog - make sure your PSU's up to it)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Hopefully you can find a setup something like the above in NZ for a reasonable price.

good luck!
a b 4 Gaming
September 10, 2012 5:15:00 PM

Keep in mind that OP is in New Zealand... Their prices are way different. That same APU would cost a little more than $100 in the USA and the 6670 would be like half it's price for OP if OP was in the USA. The 7750 would also be a good $40 or so cheaper in the USA.
a b 4 Gaming
September 10, 2012 5:20:33 PM

blazorthon said:
Keep in mind that OP is in New Zealand... Their prices are way different. That same APU would cost a little more than $100 in the USA and the 6670 would be like half it's price for OP if OP was in the USA. The 7750 would also be a good $40 or so cheaper in the USA.


I mentioned NZ at the end of my post.

Even a G850 and a 384-core 560 ti would be better than the proposed APU/GPU.
a b 4 Gaming
September 10, 2012 6:12:05 PM

quilciri said:
I mentioned NZ at the end of my post.

Even a G850 and a 384-core 560 ti would be better than the proposed APU/GPU.


Your CPU argument is debatable, but yes, the GTX 560 Ti is faster than a Radeon 7750. It's almost as fast as two Radeon 7750s in CF. However, given the New Zealand aspect of this, I don't think that OP will find a comparable system at a price nearly as good as what OP is looking at right now.

@OP
could you give us some links to online stores that you buy from? Maybe we can find better deals.
September 10, 2012 10:56:01 PM

pcpartpicker.com has a New Zealand option in the drop down box at the top of the page.

agasis, you didn't include a motherboard. Do you already have a socket FM1 mobo?

I figure you either have on oem copy of windows that came with the mobo, or a retail
copy if you are going with a new platfrom(have keyboard, mouse, screen, hdd, optical).
If it's an oem copy from an old computer, you can't use it with a new mobo. Retail is ok, though.

Here is a Celeron G550 2.6ghz, ASRock H61M mobo, 2x2GB ram and a HD7750 for 347.69nz

http://pcpartpicker.com/nz/p/h6c8

Edit: I forgot about the power supply. Do you have one or need one? If you have one,
how many amps (A) are on the +12v rail( if unsure, look at label on it inside the case)?
What brand is it? What model?

Edit: What about your case? is it a mid tower(7 expansion slots in the rear), a micro
atx tower(likely 4 expansion slots in rear) or small/slim(optical up and down, not flat)?
The size of your case will determine whether you need a low profile(1/2 width) card.
September 11, 2012 12:04:59 AM

i would suggest that you change your CPU with a Core i3 2120 (better gaming performance and also a bit cheaper) and use the spared money to buy an HD 7770 GPU.

EDIT: For BF3 you actually need a strong CPU or you will get bottlenecked in multiplayer. Aim for at least a quad-core AMD or Core i3 (preferably i5 if you can afford it) CPU.
a b 4 Gaming
September 11, 2012 1:35:40 AM

For BF3 Multiplayer, you'd be much better off with an AMD six core CPU than an i3.
September 11, 2012 4:12:57 AM

case and psu and motherboard still thinking which one to buy
I already have windows 7 dvd
September 11, 2012 4:14:42 AM

in here the a8 3870 same price as i3 and fx 4100
but i might not buy a graphics card for a little while
thats why i picked the a8 3870 cause it has hd 6550d built in until i buy new gpu
a b 4 Gaming
September 11, 2012 6:22:38 AM

agasis said:
in here the a8 3870 same price as i3 and fx 4100
but i might not buy a graphics card for a little while
thats why i picked the a8 3870 cause it has hd 6550d built in until i buy new gpu


That's something that needed to have been mentioned in the original post. Even so, Jtenroj's suggestion (G550 + 7750) is a better option.

I strongly recommend against the more expensive APU's. Only the cheapest of AMD's desktop APU's are good value. Once you get to the A8 3870, you can find more performance with seperate CPU and GPU for the same price, even in New Zealand.


(AMD's mobile APU's, however are great....mostly since there is no cheap discrete option for laptops)
September 11, 2012 9:47:45 AM

can you tell me a good cheap system then same price or near
a b 4 Gaming
September 11, 2012 12:19:12 PM

Llano isn't a poor value at any point. The problem is that it is a quad core part with its highest end models and Intel's Celerons and Pentiums are dual-core parts without HTT. Llano is basically an Athlon II x4 paired with a Radeon 5550 or 6570, depending on your memory frequency. It is cheaper than an Athlon II x4 plus a Radeon 5550 or 6570. Some of the Celerons and Pentiums from Intel are lower end CPUs but are generally adequate for decent gaming (they're still weaker CPUs, especially when overclocking is considered), so they can do the trick, but even then, they're not the best value. They simply let you shift more of your budget towards a graphics card.

A Llano A6 plus a discrete card has better value than a Llano A8 has. It competes with the lower end Intel CPU plus higher end discrete card better than the A8s do. I'll try to builds, one A6 plus discrete and one Intel plus discrete, to see which one is best supported in price today.
a b 4 Gaming
September 11, 2012 12:59:23 PM

http://pcpartpicker.com/nz/p/h9rG
That's my Llano choice.

http://pcpartpicker.com/nz/p/h6c8
This is my Intel choice.

If this is a purely gaming or gaming and very light general work computer, then I'd go for the Intel option here. The Radeon 7750 has an advantage over the Radeon 6530D with dual-channel 1600MT/s RAM plus a Radeon 6670 GDDR5. If this computer will be used for anything that relies on the CPU a little more, then I'd go for the AMD option. AMD's APU has much higher highly threaded performance and that's why it is the better option for a more CPU-bound build. Either choice is good, but you have to choose what suits your needs better. If you play BF3 online, then the Llano build would be better because BF3 MP is a huge CPU eating game that can effectively use up to six threads, plenty to make better use of a quad core CPU than Intel's inferior dual-core CPU.
September 11, 2012 4:21:53 PM

After thinking on it some, I'm not sure a celeron cpu is the best idea after all.

I am concerned about an A8 3870K being a bottleneck in BF3 multi-player for several
reasons. One is older amd architecture versus newer intel(instructions per clock ie ipc).
Another is a fairly low clock speed( can be made up a lot with overclocking on a DECENT
mobo, fast ram w/gpu). Finally is the lack of L3 cache versus Phenom II and Bulldozer FX.

I think it is less the L3 than clock differences. Liano also has 1MB L2 per core vs 512k
L2 per core on all 3+core athlonIIs/phenoms before bulldozer. But bulldozer has 2MB
shared L2 per module. That architecture in not ideally supported right now and I believe
it has far less L1 instruction/data cache per core than Liano, phenoms and athlons too.

Overclocked Phenom II x4s and x6s (and FX4170 at default/4ghz+ fx8120/8150) have
L3 cache(again, big whoop). So several things conspire to limit your performance in BF3
multi-player. However, cpu pricing in New Zealand right now means your best bet as
far as price vs performance is to get a DECENT(A75)FM1 mobo, fast ram?, and A8 3870k
and overclock it with a good air cooler. That'll put you in core i5 quad territory and hope-
fully eliminate any real bottleneck. (Edited from am3+, ok ram and 965BE after taking a
look again at cpu prices. The most appropriate mobo is 50% more than the cpu, tho.)

(Never mind. Not asus F1A75 l deluxe, but F1A75-M pro). In US newegg shows the m pro,
but open box v pro( v pro in nz, no m pro available).

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a8-3870k-apu-overcl...

What components(internal to case or external) do you already have and which ones do
you still need to purchase? What is your total budget for all new purchases? Are the
sites on pcpartpicker.com(New Zealand option) good for you, or are there other sites
that suit you better(price, local store, shipping, taxes, etc)?

I think the closest matching card for the stock gpu in A8 3870K is a HD5570, but I'm not
sure that is one of the hybrid crossfire supported cards. That changes somewhat if you
overclock the gpu. Multi gpu can add undesirable microstuttering into the mix, though.
A8 3870k OCed(cpu and gpu) mated with 6670 ddr3 would be better, but still micro-
stuttering.

(The below 7770 would be paired with a i5 quad/equivalent or better for bf3 multi player)

An OCed hd7770 will play bf3 multi on ultra* at 1080p with fxaa(~2.1 mpixels) and your
1440x900 screen is ~1.3 mpixels(~2/3 1080p). A 7750 is ~2/3 of a 7770. It may be best
to get a cheaper A75 mobo than asus f1a75-m pro(best for gpu OCing) and more normal
speed ram(1600), overclock the snot out of the 3870K(between 3.5-4ghz), and pair it
with a 7750(wouldn't hurt to OC it a ways as well). Maybe if you underclock Liano's gpu
it will allow more thermal headroom to push the cpu side. *no motion blur, ssao vs hbao

http://hardocp.com/article/2012/02/14/xfx_r7770_black_e...

This hardocp article compares and OCed xfx 7770 to hd6870 and gtx560ti and finds it
playable at the same combo of res/settings(note text on mulit player on bf3 page). This
was on an OCed i7k quad platform, but even the slowest(normal power) i5 quad
shouldn't be a bottleneck and a stars core amd cpu with lower ipc should perform similarly
to one of those with enough clock speed to make up for its lower ipc.

http://techreport.com/review/23246/inside-the-second-ga...

See where the i5 655k sits among lesser amd units? It represents LGA1155 i3s in testing.
The x4 980 represents a fairly highly OCed 3870K. Even higher clocks put it around i5 760
which would represent i5 2300 in these tests.(bf3 tested in single to be repeatable, tho).

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/135388-amd-cpu-bon...

These charts show a x4 980 trading blows with i5 2300. These are productivity apps that
make use of multiple cores(just like bf3 multiplayer does).

Actually, you could get a 6670 gddr5 and overclock it(not sure about the headroom, tho)
to play bf3 at 1440x900 on medium(or maybe that won't catch 7750 at stock). GCN based
cards like 7770 and 7750 have seen notable speed boosts with newer drivers in the last
few months compared to what they launched with in February.

http://pcpartpicker.com/nz/p/h9Z6

A8 3870 K obviously

hyper 212+ cheapest decent cooler, fm1 compatible, better than tx3 in tom's article
(4 heatpipes vs 3, 120mm fan vs 92, bigger heatsink/surface area vs tx3)

ASRock A75 EXTREME6 ATX Several customer reviews on newegg cite decent OCing

Kingston Hyper X blu 2x2GB DDR3 1600 CL 9(you could maybe get it to 1866 buy lowering
latencies, but that may defeat the speedup. Kingston Hyper x DDR3 1866 CL9 is 59 bucks)

HIS HD7750(cheapest, decent cooler, best chance of meeting your needs)

Antec 300 TWO ATX mid tower(removable/washable bottom and front dust filters, cpu cut
out, room for 12.5in video cards, 12cm rear and 14cm top exhaust fans( I suggest moving
the 12cm fan to one of the front intake spots), dedicated ssd mounts(should you decide
to add one later. Loading into a map faster than your opponents may give you and your
team a competitive edge),cable management, front usb 3.0 ports.

Antec 400w 80+ psu: 30A on the +12v rail(360w), ball bearing fan for longer life(a little
louder than a sleeve bearing, though) pcie 6pin and 4 molex(use 2molex to 1 pcie 6pin
adapter for a future card that needs 2 pcie 6pin connections), 5 sata, 20+4pin mobo
and 8pin eps12v/4+4pin atx12v connectors.

Is this within your final budget? (Sorry this got long and a bit redundant in spots...)
September 12, 2012 6:00:39 AM

thats out of my budget sory but thanks and is that site in nz or do i have to get it shipped
a b 4 Gaming
September 12, 2012 12:27:47 PM

A 7750 and an A8 with high-speed memory is kinda foolish. The 7750 and the A8's IGP can't be used in unison, so getting high speed memory for that configuration is a waste of money.
September 12, 2012 4:16:06 PM

@blazorthon: In stock ddr3 1600 isn't much more than 1333, and no sense slowing down the cpu cores in 3870k
any more than required. ddr3 1866 is only if dropping the 7750 and using the integrated gpu overclocked.

You spent more on ddr3 1600 in your build than I did in mine, so I don't see the problem.

@agasis aka the OP(original poster):

pcpartpicker.com is just a site that finds what products are available at what sites for what price and usually
shows the vendor with the best price on an item, but if you click the item you will get a list of all vendors and
prices for the item. When putting together a build, I use the system builder button at the top, and you can
edit a build using a button at the top too. The site is switchable between countries via a drop down menu at
the top from Australia to Canada, Germany, France, New Zealand, UK and US. You can also choose to get all
parts for a build from the same vendor when selecting a single component by checking the appropriate box
on the side of the screen.

All the vendors with the best prices on the items I originally picked for you are in New Zealand.

Skip Aquila Technology. Freight cost on their items is kind of a lot(a little less bad if u order a few things, tho).
They (like some others in NZ)also seem to have issues with reasonable memory being in or out of stock.

PB Technologies has 8 retail locations across the country; ships web orders from the Penrose branch; and during
the month of September, all orders over $100 ship for free. If you get both the A8 3870K and the hyper212evo
there, the total is 216.20 including GST and free shipping.

Ascent Technology web page prices include GST and they have free shipping. Same goes for PC Force.

Here is a reworked build without discrete graphics(just OC the snot out of both the cpu cores and gpu in the apu).

http://pcpartpicker.com/nz/p/heQb

Switched to gskill ripjaws memory. Costs a little more and has taller heat spreaders, but it is in stock and only
54.22 at Ascent Technologies inc GST/free shipping. Switch the 212evo's fan from push to pull if fit is an issue.

Switched the psu to Corsair cx500v2. It costs a bit more but has more amps on the +12v rail(34A, 408w) and has
a quieter sleeve bearing fan and 3yr warranty. Unlike the antec neo eco 400c and corsair cx430v2 which are only
available at Aquila Technology, this psu is 99.00 including GST and free shipping at PC Force. 2 pcie 6+2pin, btw.
The neo eco 400c did not include a power cord like the corsairs do, and cx430v2 has only a 28A +12v rail(336w).

The new total is 645.72 including GST and free shipping(if you go with PB technologies for the A8 3870K).

The most important thing for BF3 multi player is not to have a cpu bottleneck. If you oc the quad core 3870 k
heavily, you should eliminate that bottleneck. You may sacrifice some visual quality now with the integrated gpu
(even if you overclock it heavily too and the ram to 1866 by loosening some timings) but my understanding is
BF3 still looks pretty good on lower than hi quality. You can always add a HD7750 later when ur budget permits.

Oh, blazorthon's intel build is identical to the one I did, and that 3 core A6 at 2.1ghz with a locked multiplier isn't
a great idea. You should take a look at the 3870K overclocking guide here at Tom's that I linked in my last post.

Here is a test of intel hd 4000 graphics on i7 3770K in BF3 at 1024x768 w/various qualities in multiplayer mode:

http://www.game-debate.com/news/?news=2128&game=Battlef...

It was only playable on low(just barely). The least expensive i5 with hd4000 in NZ is 3570K, and all cheaper i5s
there have slower hd graphics inside. They all cost $100+ more than A8 3870k, and the cheapest compatible
combos of cpu/mobo are ivy based i5 3330/B75(370) & i5 2400(not s)/H61(390). While 3870k requires a better
cooler than stock to oc well vs the locked i5's, they require a decent discrete gpu to get playable performance on
your screen at the settings you desire. The gpu in 3870k will work just fine once it and your ram are OCed.
a b 4 Gaming
September 12, 2012 4:17:36 PM

I wasn't saying not to use 1600 for the 7750 build, I was saying not to go past i1600 unless OP sticks with a 6670 or lower. Maybe I misread your post.
September 12, 2012 4:42:33 PM

That's cool. My posts can be quite long. I imagine it could potentially be hard to retain it all in one read through.

Edit: I could have been more clear. Lowering latency on 1600 to get 1866... where did that come from? Fixed it
(loosened timings) in the post that followed. Actual ddr3 1866(CL9 or CL11) isn't really an option. 1600 CL9
loosened to CL 11...now that could work(performance will suffer some from the loosened timings, though).
September 12, 2012 7:47:28 PM

I just looked closer at Tom's article on OCing A8 3870k. While the expert makes mention of asus F1A75-M pro,
the mobo used in the article is asus F1A75-V pro, which is available in NZ and a few bucks cheaper than the ASRock
EXTREME 6 mobo I suggested/specced in the previous 2 liano builds. You can get it at Computer Store for 169.00 inc
GST with free shipping (vs the ASRock mobo at Ascent for 171.30 inc GST with free shipping). The updated build:

http://pcpartpicker.com/nz/p/hgan

New total: 643.41nz inc GST/Post(only if you get the A8 3870k at PB Technologies instead of at Aquila Technology)

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a8-3870k-apu-overcl...

If you look at the games in the Tom's article, you see good returns from the OCed cpu&gpu in the APU with ddr3
1866, but diminished returns from the fastest memory clock(both good minimum fps, little added to avg fps).

Also, they stress the importance of a QUALITY 500W PSU and A CASE WITH GOOD AIR FLOW. That is why I would
not drop below the suggested case and psu if you want that A8 3870K to reach its full potential. They also got all
5 3870k samples to between 3.5-3.7 on the cores & 900-960 on the gpu with the hyper tx3(again the hyper212evo
has a bigger fan, another heatpipe and more surface area for cooling). A good cooler is important to keep temps in
check and limit clock speed throttling(maybe you can go higher like the OCing expert they interviewed with the Hyper
212evo vs what the writer got from using a hyper tx3).

Oh, I guess you mentioned MW3 in your OP. If this setup can play BF3, it should max MW3(could maybe do that
game on high at 1080p with some aa thrown in as well).

Edit: The BF3 test in Tom's article shows the various setups at 720p set to low(Operation Swordbreaker FRAPS runs) .
I know intel HD 4000 is slower (24fps min, 30fps avg at 1024x768=786,432 pixels on low) vs an OCed A8 3870K
(30fps+ min, mid30s avg at 720p=921,600 pixels on low), but it is a multiplayer test versus a singleplayer test.

Edit:The 14cm top fan in the antec 300 two should help get heat away from the chipset and ram, and the 12cm fan
on the hyper212evo set to vent out the back or top should help out overall temps. If you put the rear 12cm case fan
either on the side or in front(preferably w/front dust filters) you will introduce fresh cool air to the inside of the case.

Posiitive air pressure in the case will keep dust from coming in the cracks and hampering cooling efficiency. I wonder
if it would be wise to set both the rear case fan and the fan on the hyper212evo to front intake, the hyper212
copper heatpipe/aluminum heatsink airflow facing up, and let the 14cm top fan pull the heat out? Maybe not. 12cm
fans are pretty cheap, though. You could get 2, leave the hyper212 fan where it is facing up, place the new fans in
the front with the dust filter and put the rear case fan on the hyper 212 for some push/pull action(heat rises, right?).

I guess it depends on the airflow where you put what fan and if the hyper 212 is pushing/pulling back or up. It also
depends on if the gskill ripjaws' heat spreaders get in the way of desired cpu heatsink fan placement or not.

Oh, the antec 300 two is like 9 inches wide, so there is plenty of clearance for a cooler like the hyper212evo.
September 13, 2012 7:07:48 AM

would the a8 3870 bottleneck hd 7750
i dont really wanna overclock so do i need the fan
!