A Couple Questions: New Hardcore Gaming Rig (My First Build ≤$6000)

L1ghtF00t

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Sep 5, 2012
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Hi guys, i've been researching everything there is to research about this build (except for anything i already know), and I would appreciate it if you all would please take a look at this build and tell me if this build:

1. Uses too much voltage
2. Uses more than 20 Amps (Anything over 20 amps will flip the breaker in my house)(This includes any spikes that might go over 20 amps, so please include your thoughts about that)

also, can you answer these questions please? thanks!

1. How do i know what AC Suppression Joule Rating I will need for this PSU:
EVGA SuperNOVA NEX1500 Classified 120-PG-1500-XR 1500W SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Power Supply?

2. Also, can you recommend a high quality surge suppressor that will provide an Output Watt Capacity of at least 1600 Watts and a high enough AC Suppression Joule Rating for the above mentioned PSU? (again, im not worried about cost. i want quality, not cheap).

3. Any other thoughts/concerns i should be aware of? Any improvements?

Here's The Build:

1. Computer Case: $399.99
LIAN LI PC-P80NB Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case

2. Motherboard: $469.98
ASUS Rampage IV Extreme LGA 2011 Intel X79 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Extended ATX Intel Motherboard

3. Processor: $599.98
Intel Core i7-3930K Sandy Bridge-E 3.2GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 2011 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80619i73930K

4. RAM: $489.98
(2 Sets) CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2400 Desktop Memory Model CMZ16GX3M4A2400C9R

5. Graphics Card: $1357.84
DUAL  EVGA 04G-P4-3688-KR GeForce GTX 680 Classified 4GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

6. Audio Card: $201.98
Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D Fatal1ty Champion (70SB135400000) 5.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Express x1 Interface Sound Card with Sound Blaster I/O

7. Network Card: $80.99
Intel EXPI9400PTBLK Gigabit Copper Connection for Servers 10/ 100/ 1000Mbps PCI-Express 1 x RJ45 – OEM

8. CPU Cooling Device: $139.99
CORSAIR H100 (CWCH100) Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler

9. SSD: $226.99
SAMSUNG 830 Series MZ-7PC256B/WW 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

10. HDD: $289.99
Western Digital VelociRaptor WD1000DHTZ 1TB 10000 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

11. Blu-Ray Drive: $99.99
LG Black 14X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 12X BD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA BDXL Blu-Ray Burner with SW, 3D Play Back - BH14NS40

12. DVD Drive: $43.98
PLEXTOR Internal DVD Super Multi 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 24X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA Model PX-L890SA LightScribe Support

13. Power Protection: $68.78
TRIPP LITE ISOBAR6DBS 6 ft. 6 Outlets 2850 joules Home/Business Theater Surge Suppressor (may need higher joule rating, definitely need a higher wattage rating)

14. PSU: $464.08
EVGA SuperNOVA NEX1500 Classified 120-PG-1500-XR 1500W SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Power Supply

15. Other Basic Accessories: Mouse, Keyboard, Etc. (if it matters)
 
Solution
FINAL BUILD

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($314.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Gigabyte G1.Sniper 3 EATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($289.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($88.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($88.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: OCZ Vertex 4 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($183.04 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 670 4GB Video Card (4-Way SLI) ($459.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 670 4GB Video Card (4-Way SLI) ($459.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 670 4GB...

g-unit1111

Titan
Moderator
For $6K you can get a way better cooling system than an H100. Go with a Swiftech Edge or something like a custom loop, but an H100 is a plastic toy compared to the real thing. And there's absolutely no reason to purchase a WD Velociraptor, the extra NIC, or the sound card - those things are unnecessary.

But everything on that build is major overkill for a gaming system. No combination of GPUs - especially Keppler and Radeon 79XX will come close to using 1500W of power. You could pay $1500 and still get a rig that does everything you need:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 65.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($84.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($203.49 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($41.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung Spinpoint F4 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Plextor M3 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($274.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 680 2GB Video Card ($527.55 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT Switch 810 (White) ATX Full Tower Case ($179.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: PC Power & Cooling 950W 80 PLUS Silver Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($133.98 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHBS212-08 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($109.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium Full (32/64-bit) ($179.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $2086.93
(Prices include shipping and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2012-09-10 20:04 EDT-0400)

If you're going to pay that much for a PSU though I'd go with the Corsair AX1200i instead of the EVGA one and get full digital control of the whole PSU and the ways it uses power. But if gaming is the primary focus of this build - everything on it is massive overkill and X79 isn't worth the price difference.
 

idroid

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Aug 18, 2012
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let me point out a few things:

*Most PSUs work @110v/10amps... you're ok.

*an X79 platform is NOT going to give you any performance gain in games.

*8GB of RAM are hardly needed and 16GB is way more than enough... no need for 32GB

*Those cards are good but the 7970Ghz edition outperforms it, and with the watercooling mod included you can overclock the hell out of them.

*The on-board sound of the Gigabyte Assassin 3 is superior to any other motherboard's on-board sound and so is the NIC (internet card)

*No need for velociraptor when you have an SSD.


Get this:

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($314.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Gigabyte G1.Sniper 3 EATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($280.01 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($105.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($88.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: OCZ Vertex 4 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($183.04 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Diamond Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card (CrossFire) ($419.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Diamond Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card (CrossFire) ($419.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Diamond Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card (CrossFire) ($419.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Azza Fusion 4000 ATX Full Tower Case ($219.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 1250W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($212.50 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-222BB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($16.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $2682.45



Watercooling MOD :

Raditaor 1: XSPC RX360 Triple 120mm Radiator Rev 2 ($94.99 @ FrozenCPU )
Radiator 2: EK CoolStream 480 XT Series Liquid Cooling Radiator ($97.95 @ FrozenCPU )
Fittings: 10x Alphacool Compression Fitting - G 1/4 Thread 3/8" ID x 1/2" OD ($6.99 each @ FrozenCPU )
GPU Blocks: 3x Heatkiller GPU-X³ 7970 Reference Design Full Coverage Water Block ($119.99 each @ FrozenCPU)
SLI/CF fitting: Heatkiller GPU-X² / GPU-X³ X Triple Link Bridge Block ($24.95 @ FrozenCPU )
CPU Block: XSPC RayStorm High Performance Acetal CPU Liquid Cooling Block ($76.99 @ FrozenCPU )
Fans: 7x Cooler Master Excalibur 120mm x 25mm High Performance Fan ($23.99 each @ FrozenCPU)
Tubing 10ft of PrimoChill PrimoFlex PRO LRT Tubing 3/8"ID 1/2" OD ($2.25 @ FrozenCPU )
Pump&Reservoir: EK DDC X-Top Pump Top Rev. 2 - Acrylic w/ Swiftech MCP355 Series Pump ($109.99 @ FrozenCPU)
Total: $1022.63


*How to build and take care of a full watercooling loop:

Water Cooling Guide Part 1
Water Cooling Guide Part 2
Water Cooling Guide Part 3
Water Cooling Guide Part 4
Cool watercooling loop assembly animation
 

nsouter853

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Jul 14, 2011
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Okay okay, like both other posts have said, you really need to work on this build. First of all, in the modern sense, a "hardcore" gaming build is NOT the most expensive one, but the best performing one that isn't overkill.

Second, there is no reason you should spend $400 on a case.

Third, there is no reason to spend $450 on a motherboard for gaming.

Fourth, there is no reason to spend $600 on a 6/12 core processor for gaming.

Fifth, there is no reason to spend $500 on RAM (lol).

Sixth, there is no reason to spend $1400 on two graphics cards when you could get a 690 for cheaper, or a 670 for $400 that is overkill by itself anyways.

Seventh, there is no reason to spend $200 on a sound card unless you produce high-quality music for a living. For a living.

Eighth, DON'T buy a network card for a gaming computer. It would be a shame to bottleneck a nice rig with slow wireless internet wouldn't it? Just get a 50mps or faster CAT6.

Ninth, there is no reason to spend $140 on an H100, I got mine for $99.

Tenth, there is no reason to buy a veliciraptor HDD, no matter what your purposes are.

Eleventh, there is no reason to spend $450 on a PSU unless you are making a nuclear energy plant.


I agree with g-unit1111's build that he posted. I would even go as far as saying save the $100 and get a GTX 670 instead of a 680 since the performance difference is marginal at best (my overclocked 670 is faster than a 680).

If you must waste $6000 on a "gaming" build (you should really call it a "will be outdated in 3 years money sink build") just get what g-unit1111 said, but with a GTX 690 and a bunch of huge screens and peripherals.

If you know who Sigmund Freud is and don't feel like blowing money away, just get what g-unit1111 said and keep the extra $4000 for yourself.

Good luck!
 

idroid

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what the hell are you talking about kiddo?? there isn't such thing as a "professional PC parts picker" this kind of forums are much better for picking parts because of the participation of multiple people.
 

idroid

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according to your logic there is no reason to spend 50k on a weekend in Las Vegas, right? you know, some people like luxury, and this is ALL this PC is going to be, an expensive "toy" but that's alright, if you can do it, why not? why the **** should you compare yourself to people with lower standards of life??? if you can do it, DO IT.
 

redeemer

Distinguished
Mmm 6K

Cosmos 2
i7 3960x
Asrock Extreme 11
4X sapphire reference 7970's
Corsair AX1200i
32GB Corsair Dominator Platinums 2400
Intel 520 480GB SSD
2 TB WD Black HDD
Corsair H100
Replace stock H100 fans with 4 Cougar Vortex 120mm
 

idroid

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That's just stupid, you're just throwing out the most expensive parts you know from the top of your head.
 

Tavo_Nova

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well I do agree about the i7 3770k build from above but if you really want a x79 lga 2011 gaming rig you can use the same thing as mine and just improve it a bit.

imo you don't really need all those extra power but if you are like me who just like things to be overboard and have the cash to back it out, go ahead. although there are not much gain from getting ivy from sandy e.

except just feeling leet.

but if you do video editing and you also do gaming, you can actually get the i7 3770k and buy your self a 3930k like mine although I use a 3960x for my line of job and a 3930k for gaming, but well as I did notice for some time already no improvement on gameplay compared to the previous i7 2600k and i5 2500k, so more with the new ivy,

well I'm more like doesn't want my ram usage to go above 40% on gaming ^_^

but really the i7 3770k is actually worth more your money and they are quality (the build posted above)
 

Nanekud

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There probably isn't, but there are professionals; which is what I said. And you're right, the information that people get off of this forum is just as good as any. I'm just making the point that spending $6,000 on a gaming rig is straight insane.
 

nsouter853

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I get your point, and don't want to start a flame war, but a weekend in Vegas isn't the same. A 50k weekend in Vegas will not be out of date in a few years, and spending less than $50k on a weekend in Vegas could affect its enjoyment/performance. Spending less than $6k on a computer will not affect its enjoyment/performance, and will be out of date in a few years.

Let's stop the argument here, though. No need for that. My point is given, yours is, it's his or her choice what to do with his or her money.
 

idroid

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Really? well adding furniture, monitors, peripherals, accessories,chairs, games, wiring, tools, sound system, modding, watercooling system and the build itself i spent close to 25k on my gaming rig so.... i guess you can call me insane based on your point of view :lol:
 
G

Guest

Guest


I couldn't agree with you more. Unless the point of the OP's build is to brag that he has the most expensive system this is an absolute waste of $6000. Unless you got an advance copy of Crysis 5 that no one else has keep your money, and follow Toms 2k guide.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pc-building-overclocking-buyers-guide,3282.html

or

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pc-building-overclocking-buyers-guide,3277.html

Hope that helps.
 

nsouter853

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Woot! Someone who is level-headed lol.

"Unless the point of the OP's build is to brag that he has the most expensive system" ------- Hence my Freud reference LOL
 

L1ghtF00t

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ok, so idroid seems to know what he is talking about, so ill address his comment and anyone can respond:

let me point out a few things:

*Most PSUs work @110v/10amps... you're ok. - ok, cool

*an X79 platform is NOT going to give you any performance gain in games. - can u suggest something else that will give me just as good as performance and would apply for hardcore gaming?

*8GB of RAM are hardly needed and 16GB is way more than enough... no need for 32GB - i was gonna do 64GB, lol, but i figured that was overkill. i wanted to have 32GB . . . just cause :D

*Those cards are good but the 7970Ghz edition outperforms it, and with the watercooling mod included you can overclock the hell out of them. - i don't want/need to OC, its pointless for dual 680's in SLI

*The on-board sound of the Gigabyte Assassin 3 is superior to any other motherboard's on-board sound and so is the NIC (internet card) - it can't support my DDR3 2400 RAM

*No need for velociraptor when you have an SSD. - its a backup and my main storage for anything other than games and OS


Get this:

CPU:Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($314.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard:Gigabyte G1.Sniper 3 EATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($280.01 @ Newegg)
Memory:Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($105.99 @ Newegg)
Storage:Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($88.98 @ Newegg)
Storage:OCZ Vertex 4 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($183.04 @ NCIX US)
Video Card:Diamond Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card (CrossFire) ($419.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card:Diamond Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card (CrossFire) ($419.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card:Diamond Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card (CrossFire) ($419.99 @ Newegg)
Case:Azza Fusion 4000 ATX Full Tower Case ($219.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply:SeaSonic 1250W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($212.50 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive:Samsung SH-222BB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($16.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $2682.45

- im building a cheetah on cocaine here. no blu-ray? 7200 rpm HDD, why not 10k rpm or better? motherboard won't support my RAM. the video cards have less VRAM and a slower effective memory clock (no, i don't want to OC). anyways, i've always had problems with radeon cards, nvidia has never once caused me a problem.



Watercooling MOD :

Raditaor 1:XSPC RX360 Triple 120mm Radiator Rev 2 ($94.99 @ FrozenCPU )
Radiator 2:EK CoolStream 480 XT Series Liquid Cooling Radiator ($97.95 @ FrozenCPU )
Fittings:10x Alphacool Compression Fitting - G 1/4 Thread 3/8" ID x 1/2" OD ($6.99 each @ FrozenCPU )
GPU Blocks:3x Heatkiller GPU-X³ 7970 Reference Design Full Coverage Water Block ($119.99 each @ FrozenCPU)
SLI/CF fitting:Heatkiller GPU-X² / GPU-X³ X Triple Link Bridge Block ($24.95 @ FrozenCPU )
CPU Block:XSPC RayStorm High Performance Acetal CPU Liquid Cooling Block ($76.99 @ FrozenCPU )
Fans:7x Cooler Master Excalibur 120mm x 25mm High Performance Fan ($23.99 each @ FrozenCPU)
Tubing10ft of PrimoChill PrimoFlex PRO LRT Tubing 3/8"ID 1/2" OD ($2.25 @ FrozenCPU )
Pump&Reservoir:EK DDC X-Top Pump Top Rev. 2 - Acrylic w/ Swiftech MCP355 Series Pump ($109.99 @ FrozenCPU)
Total: $1022.63

- 1000 bucks for a liquid cooling system? a closed loop system will cool it nearly as well (you can't cool it below room temperature anyway, so why try?). i am willing to take suggestions for better closed loop systems. so, what would be the BEST closed loop cooling system?


*How to build and take care of a full watercooling loop:

Water Cooling Guide Part 1
Water Cooling Guide Part 2
Water Cooling Guide Part 3
Water Cooling Guide Part 4
Cool watercooling loop assembly animation


- good to know, if i were gonna use open/custom loop
 

L1ghtF00t

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can we answer my original questions please about my rig? thanks

1. Does it use too much voltage for a regular U.S. outlet of, i think it's 110V?

2. Does it use more than 20 Amps (Anything over 20 amps will flip the breaker in my house)(This includes any spikes that might go over 20 amps, so please include your thoughts about that)

3. How do i know what AC Suppression Joule Rating I will need for this PSU:
EVGA SuperNOVA NEX1500 Classified 120-PG-1500-XR 1500W SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Power Supply?
(if you want me to change this, then someone needs to calculate the wattage for the rig i have given you, and give me the breakdown of how many watts each component uses and the total wattage).

4. Also, can you recommend a high quality surge suppressor that will provide an Output Watt Capacity of at least 1600 Watts and a high enough AC Suppression Joule Rating for the above mentioned PSU? (again, im not worried about cost (as long as its within the budget ofc. i want quality, not cheap).

5. Should I run this PSU on single rail or 8-rail mode. ( i was told to run it on single-rail or else i would overload the 2 vid cards, however i think there is less safety if i do this. but as long as i have an appropriate surge suppressor would that matter?
 

idroid

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*no it doesn't use too much power, the PSU i linked is FINE, do not worry about that. it uses 100-240v @6.5-13amps

*i am not an electrician but i know a bit about electric circuits, a joule is a really high unit of electricity, you should be more than ok with any voltage regulator/protector from home depot. and btw... the PSU has NOTHING to do with the "joule rating" you need, all you should care about is what comes out of your wall plug.

*Get the PSU i linked (the seasonic one)
 

idroid

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*The gigabyte sniper 3 DOES support your memory, it even supports 2666MHz RAM (anyways....anything beyond 1600+ will void your CPU warranty and WILL NOT give you any performance advantage)

*Z77 gives you more performance than X79 CPUs in games

*i have 64GB too :lol: and i have never seen my PC use more than 9GB

*what do you mean by pointless??????? at this price range you MUST overclock even if you don't want too (if not.... why do you need cooling :lol:) overclocking your CPU might not give you much of a performance gain but overclocking your GPU does, Triple 7970s have enough VRAM to run 3 monitors with ease and even faster than a GTX680 (because of the faster architecture) and Crossfire scales better than SLI with more than 3 cards (even in BF3)

*a velociraptor drive is POINTLESS, its freaking noisy and there isn't a big difference between 7200 and 10000rpm drives...specially for backup purposes.

*you can include the BD player if you want.

*you're not getting any watercooling loop, you're getting THE BEST watercooling loop for that price range, it will make your PC extremely quiet and it will make it run at almost ambient temperatures and.... are you sure you can't run your stuff below ambient temperature??????

26528945.jpg


you would need a car radiator, a small fridge, a 1/2HP water pump and some other stuff :lol:

*TBH watercooling is more of a luxury than anything :kaola:

 

idroid

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hahahaha you gotta love Lamborghinis!! my father has an old school 1992 Diablo SV and a Spyder Performante... i wish i had as much money as he does but i am currently working on it... if everything goes as i planned i will beat him in no time :D
 

g-unit1111

Titan
Moderator


Kind of makes me wish I could get paid for doing this. :lol:

If you know who Sigmund Freud is and don't feel like blowing money away, just get what g-unit1111 said and keep the extra $4000 for yourself.

Yeah you could take a nice vacation and buy a 55" LED monitor and still have money left over. :lol:
 

L1ghtF00t

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Sep 5, 2012
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*The gigabyte sniper 3 DOES support your memory, it even supports 2666MHz RAM (anyways....anything beyond 1600+ will void your CPU warranty and WILL NOT give you any performance advantage) - ok, i guess i looked at the wrong one last time, but i don't want to void my warranty, it only supports dual channel and only has 4 RAM slots.

*Z77 gives you more performance than X79 CPUs in games - z77 only supports dual channel RAM, only 16 PCI-E lanes for z77 vs. 40 for x79, x79 has more threads.

*i have 64GB too and i have never seen my PC use more than 9GB - lol, im getting 32GB just cause.

*what do you mean by pointless??????? at this price range you MUST overclock even if you don't want too (if not.... why do you need cooling ) overclocking your CPU might not give you much of a performance gain but overclocking your GPU does, Triple 7970s have enough VRAM to run 3 monitors with ease and even faster than a GTX680 (because of the faster architecture) and Crossfire scales better than SLI with more than 3 cards (even in BF3) - I may decide to OC in the future, so i want everything to be there in case i do, and even if i don't OC, the liquid cooling will still bring he temp down, which will allow the CPU to perform better and more eficiently. ill take the vid cards into consideration.

*a velociraptor drive is POINTLESS, its freaking noisy and there isn't a big difference between 7200 and 10000rpm drives...specially for backup purposes. -ok

*you can include the BD player if you want. - cool

*you're not getting any watercooling loop, you're getting THE BEST watercooling loop for that price range, it will make your PC extremely quiet and it will make it run at almost ambient temperatures and.... are you sure you can't run your stuff below ambient temperature??????
you would need a car radiator, a small fridge, a 1/2HP water pump and some other stuff

- guess i could just put the whole pc into my refrigerator (or better yet, my freezer), but it may become too cold then.

*TBH watercooling is more of a luxury than anything - idk what this is. can u clarify?