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Will i be bottlenecking

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September 23, 2012 7:39:37 AM

ok i was wondering if i get a amd phenom II 965 black http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... and overclock it to 4.4 Ghz will i bottleneck an ASUS 7950 directCU2 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

More about : bottlenecking

September 23, 2012 7:59:14 AM

i most likely think it will bottleneck i just needs someone else's advice
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September 23, 2012 8:27:42 AM

no it wont

or to be more exact it depends on what you intend to do with it but gaming no it wont.
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a c 150 K Overclocking
a b Ĉ ASUS
a b À AMD
September 23, 2012 8:43:25 AM

Well, sort of.
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September 23, 2012 9:10:30 AM

amuffin said:
Well, sort of.

sort of being 5 fps
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September 23, 2012 9:10:47 AM

and yes mostly gaming and web browsing(youtube)
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September 23, 2012 10:45:52 AM

Your not going to (or unlikely too) get a stable 4.4GHz overclock though, 4.0 is more the norm.

My answer is still the same though at 4.0GHz
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September 23, 2012 11:37:40 AM

You should get 4ghz pretty easy with a decent air cooler like a hyper 212. That won't create a significant bottleneck
in any current game. Here's how processors from current to a few years old rate on an xfx 7950(whole article good) :

http://techreport.com/review/23246/inside-the-second-ga...

The x4 980 is a 965BE with a few extra bins on the stock cooler, and is close to i5 760 and i7 875 which are not
significant bottlenecks(a few more bins on a decent cooler and a voltage bump make them roughly equal). It's far
superior to i5 655k(representing LGA1155 i3s in this test). You also have an upgrade path to FX8350 with new bios:

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/135388-amd-cpu-bon...

These charts show x4 980 trading blows with i5 2300( between i5 760 and i7 875) and fx8350 trading blows with i7
quads in multi threaded apps. More games are coming out that make use of quad core processors(BF3 multi player,
Skyrim, various RTSs, etc) and while i5 2300 is locked down, all the other amd and intel processors are not and
will overclock even higher. Besides a few more speed bumps on ivy, LGA1155 is done(Haswell will be on LGA1150).
AM3/AM3+ will let you put in a piledriver FX cpu(like fx8350) and possibly a steamroller cpu as well. Hope this helps.
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September 23, 2012 7:54:46 PM

and yes i do have a hyper 212 plus but what cpu would you guys suggest for $100-$150
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September 23, 2012 8:37:35 PM

I take issue with that benchmark page, and I'll explain why. First, a few things. devilofdeaths is wondering if a
4ghz+(4.4 actually) phenom II x4 with 6MB of L3 cache will bottleneck an asus dc2 7950(which I imagine should
easily oc past 7970 levels). The tom's benchmark linked uses an hd7970 for testing. Now to my beefs:

The first game listed, Star Craft 2, is tested with no aa(would switch the onus back to the gpu). That should lower
average framerate and may impact minimum frame rate, but it won't be due to the cpu. In an rts like sc2, 15fps
is pretty decent(like what the 955BE OCed to 4ghz got for a minimum, 45fps avg.).

Just Cause 2 has fairly high settings in place and runs at 38fps minimum(69.5fps avg.) on that OCed 955BE.
Unless you need more than 60fps at all times on a 60hz screen(which even a 4ghz 2500k can't provide), u r o k.

Finally there's Skyrim. 29fps minimum, 37fps avg(vs i5 2400 with 36 and 45). I wonder if the 955 is throttling.

4ghz didn't become easy til the new stepping on 965be dropped it from 140w tdp to 125w(like the one linked by
devilofdeaths on newegg). I believe 955(BE) is 140w. Since x6s are also 45nm, are larger(more cores), and also
hit 4ghz easy, a 956be should go a bit past 4ghz w/o trouble. Also, in a value sense, this inexpensive, unlocked
quad core(combined with an inexpensive but feature rich, performance mobo) is a bettter bang for your buck than
a more expensive combo of i5/i7 and supporting mobo or a cheap i3(or lower) and similarly feature rich mobo.

If you factor in the extra cost of cooling(decent air cooler vs stock cooler for both amd cpu and intel k series) and
maybe a better psu for an x4, it's still a better proposition when on a tight budget. If you go online against other
players in the likes of sc2, you will want the extra cores in an x4 over an i3 or pentium(sc2 tested in SP mode).

Oh yeah, fraps doesn't tell the whole story. If you read gpu reviews for the last 12 months or so at techreport,
you will see how a gpu with a higher fps in fraps may actually give you an inferior gaming experience compared to
one that has a lower fraps score. Hardocp has been on this track for years, but can't yet fund the kind of equip-
ment techreport has to scientifically show what they've been "feeling" for years in their gpu reviews.

And that tom's article compares bulldozer fx(crap), amd APUs(best overclocked with a decent cooler on a decent
mobo like every other cpu, possibly turning down the gpu part to give more headroom to the cpu part) and
pentium(not worth it over an x4 or A8k when they are similarly priced). A8 has no upgrade path(piledriver based
APUs will be on fm2), but on am3 you can upgrade to piledriver fx soon and maybe steamroller too. Besides the
chance of intel releasing a few slightly faster ivy procs, LGA1155 is dead(Haswell will be on the new LGA1150).

Edit: phenom II x4 965BE for 85.99 with free shipping, without question. Find it here:

http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=46281&vpn=HDZ965FBGMBO...
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September 23, 2012 8:37:41 PM

i dont care if its amd or intel im not bias
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a c 150 K Overclocking
a b Ĉ ASUS
a b À AMD
September 23, 2012 8:39:21 PM

Might as well get an i5!
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September 23, 2012 8:45:49 PM

amuffin said:
Might as well get an i5!

but the loswest(in price) is the i5-2300 at $175 and very little ability tho overclock.should i just save up and get a 2500k?
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September 23, 2012 8:46:15 PM

@amuffin: Pray tell, good sir... where can one find this i5(quad) for less than 150?

@devilofdeaths: If you missed the edit to my last post, please look again. 965BE es muy cheapo right now!

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September 23, 2012 8:49:27 PM

jtenorj said:
@amuffin: Pray tell, good sir... where can one find this i5(quad) for less than 150?

@devilofdeaths: If you missed the edit to my last post, please look again. 965BE es muy cheapo right now!

yes i know im using PCPartPicker to pick the parts so i already know and you're right the cheapest i5 is $175 so if i do decide to get a i5 should i just save up for the 2500k because i will be overclocking
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September 23, 2012 8:56:11 PM

@devilofdeaths: I noticed you posted a post like 6 seconds after I posted that long one(which I edited a bit later).
Did you read the whole thing? An i5 k cpu and a mobo that will OC it will cost a lot more than 965BE and a quality
am3+ OCing mobo. If you really crank up the details on your gpu, any real bottleneck will switch to that.
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Best solution

a c 150 K Overclocking
a b Ĉ ASUS
a b À AMD
September 23, 2012 8:56:38 PM

You don't need to OC with an i3 or i5 to meet the performance of an overclocked Phenom II X4.
Share
September 23, 2012 8:59:49 PM

jtenorj said:
@devilofdeaths: I noticed you posted a post like 6 seconds after I posted that long one(which I edited a bit later).
Did you read the whole thing? An i5 k cpu and a mobo that will OC it will cost a lot more than 965BE and a quality
am3+ OCing mobo. If you really crank up the details on your gpu, any real bottleneck will switch to that.

yes i did read it the thing was is that i didnt refresh the page before you posted so i didnt see it before i posted the bias thing but right after i posted it i read the whole thing
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September 23, 2012 9:01:05 PM

amuffin said:
You don't need to OC with an i3 or i5 to meet the performance of an overclocked Phenom II X4.

i know but i just feel like im not getting a cpu's true potential if i don't overclock it
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a c 150 K Overclocking
a b Ĉ ASUS
a b À AMD
September 23, 2012 9:03:12 PM

You shouldn't overclock unless you have to.
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September 23, 2012 9:05:37 PM

amuffin said:
You shouldn't overclock unless you have to.

ok :(  but should i get a higher end i3 or a lower end i5
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September 23, 2012 9:10:32 PM

Save up some money and go with the 2500k or the 3570k. You won't have to over clock but you want to be able to in the future.
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September 23, 2012 9:12:26 PM

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/iklX this is the best system i can build any suggestins i had to cut out the 7950 and add a 7870 HAWK and also i will be waiting until black friday to order my parts
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September 23, 2012 9:15:54 PM

man, ya'll post fast. So microcenter is out. Even if you can't oc a i5 quad, it's ok(for now). It is still much more
expensive. I want to refer you to what I believe is my first post in this thread and that article at techreport:

http://techreport.com/review/23246/inside-the-second-ga...

If anything, an i5 655k may be faster than an LGA1155 i3(similar clocks, same ram, similar design, but the i5 has
fairly aggressive boost clocks where the i3 has none). It also has broader instruction set support than i3, despite
being an older cpu. And it you look where it sits on that chart(the little blue dot amongst the lesser green dots)
you will see that the 980(a 965BE with a few extra speed bins on the stock cooler) is quite a bit faster. Overclock it
to 4ghz+ and you enter the territory of the locked down i5 quad, which is fine for not being a significant bottleneck
in current games. You could even go a little higher than that for some future proofing(or swap in a piledriver fx).

Also, I goofed on that second link in my first post that was supposed to be to extremetech. Fixed it and added here:

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/135388-amd-cpu-bon...

You might want to take a look at that post again in a new light.
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a c 150 K Overclocking
a b Ĉ ASUS
a b À AMD
September 23, 2012 9:18:55 PM

What games are you going to play?
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September 23, 2012 9:21:42 PM

jtenorj said:
man, ya'll post fast. So microcenter is out. Even if you can't oc a i5 quad, it's ok(for now). It is still much more
expensive. I want to refer you to what I believe is my first post in this thread and that article at techreport:

http://techreport.com/review/23246/inside-the-second-ga...

If anything, an i5 655k may be faster than an LGA1155 i3(similar clocks, same ram, similar design, but the i5 has
fairly aggressive boost clocks where the i3 has none). It also has broader instruction set support than i3, despite
being an older cpu. And it you look where it sits on that chart(the little blue dot amongst the lesser green dots)
you will see that the 980(a 965BE with a few extra speed bins on the stock cooler) is quite a bit faster. Overclock it
to 4ghz+ and you enter the territory of the locked down i5 quad, which is fine for not being a significant bottleneck
in current games. You could even go a little higher than that for some future proofing(or swap in a piledriver fx).

Also, I goofed on that second link in my first post that was supposed to be to extremetech. Fixed it and added here:

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/135388-amd-cpu-bon...

You might want to take a look at that post again in a new light.

i had a 8150 in my last pc and it was nowhere near a 2500k
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September 23, 2012 9:24:30 PM

amuffin said:
What games are you going to play?

BF3,metal of honor:war fighter,indie games,GTA 4 and 5,skyrim,dayz games like that mostly FPS's
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September 23, 2012 9:32:52 PM

Here's your intel build with a less maligned z68 mobo, a 7950, better case, and what I think is a better psu:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ikuo

Same cost as before after rebate(cheaper before). Mod that case with a window and led fan up front if you want.

Edit: You may have to paint the inside black to match the look of the other case. Also, get the dvd burner at newegg
for a dollar more. Shipping at Superbiiz is expensive.
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September 23, 2012 9:47:58 PM

jtenorj said:
Here's your intel build with a less maligned z68 mobo, a 7950, better case, and what I think is a better psu:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ikuo

Same cost as before after rebate(cheaper before). Mod that case with a window and led fan up front if you want.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ikA2 this is actually how i would build it because im ordering on black friday so i will be getting great deals and also is the case that picked out better than the one i did
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a b K Overclocking
a b Ĉ ASUS
a b À AMD
September 23, 2012 9:51:15 PM

This topic has been moved from the section CPU & Components to section Systems by Mousemonkey
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September 23, 2012 9:58:15 PM

i know that sapphire makes great cards but i like the ASUS version because its the quitest and one of the best preformance 7950's
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September 23, 2012 11:00:14 PM

Are you asking why I think the case I picked is better than the one you picked? If yes, here's why:

You buy a case to last. The antec 300 two has many features found only on more expensive cases(save the HAF
912, but I like the looks of the Antec 300 TWO better and it's easier to mod). First of all, the antec is 9in wide vs
the 7.5in wide elite 430. It will more easily accept tall air coolers like hyper 212. The antec has cable manage-
ment holes for a tidy inside(more of an issue of you go non-modular like corsair cx600 vs ocz modstream 700w).

The antec has both front and bottom air filters that are removable/washable. If you place say a 120mm led fan
and the rear 120mm fan up front, you may be able to achieve positive pressure in your case with the 140mm top
fan and the video card vent. That will keep dust out of the cracks, and the bottom filter and front filter will stop
dust those places. Dust insulates against heat being conducted out of your system and so is a bad thing. 300 two
can take video cards up to 12.5in long & has built in 2.5in ssd mounts in addition to the standard 5.25in and
3.5in drive bays. It has a large cpu cutout in the mobo tray letting you easily install or remove larger model air
coolers with supporting back plates like the hyper 212. It has 2 usb 3.0 ports up top in front next to the audio
jacks. The somewhat plain exterior will let you dremel a whole in the side for a clear plexiglass or acrylic window.

You might want to paint the interior black first though. Moving on to our choices in gpu(mine has changed):

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ikS1

That sapphire card I picked at first only has a 2yr warranty and is unproven(based on an utter lack of reviews by
users at newegg). The asus card you selected has a 3yr warranty but poor reviews at newegg. It was also $50
more than the sapphire. The xfx double dissipation in the build now has a lifetime warranty and very favorable
reviews at newegg. It's pretty good at overclocking as well. Lastly, it's 40 bucks cheaper than the asus.

Edit: forgot to mention the antec 300 two has tool-less drive bays(5.25in and 3.5in. Not sure about the ssd spots.).
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September 23, 2012 11:01:52 PM

Best answer selected by devilofdeaths.
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September 23, 2012 11:32:33 PM

Did you read my last post(I don't care about getting best answer, just that you get the info you want/need)?

You can pm me if you want by clicking the envelope below my name(if mousemonkey closes the thread soon).
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September 23, 2012 11:41:35 PM

jtenorj said:
Are you asking why I think the case I picked is better than the one you picked? If yes, here's why:

You buy a case to last. The antec 300 two has many features found only on more expensive cases(save the HAF
912, but I like the looks of the Antec 300 TWO better and it's easier to mod). First of all, the antec is 9in wide vs
the 7.5in wide elite 430. It will more easily accept tall air coolers like hyper 212. The antec has cable manage-
ment holes for a tidy inside(more of an issue of you go non-modular like corsair cx600 vs ocz modstream 700w).

The antec has both front and bottom air filters that are removable/washable. If you place say a 120mm led fan
and the rear 120mm fan up front, you may be able to achieve positive pressure in your case with the 140mm top
fan and the video card vent. That will keep dust out of the cracks, and the bottom filter and front filter will stop
dust those places. Dust insulates against heat being conducted out of your system and so is a bad thing. 300 two
can take video cards up to 12.5in long & has built in 2.5in ssd mounts in addition to the standard 5.25in and
3.5in drive bays. It has a large cpu cutout in the mobo tray letting you easily install or remove larger model air
coolers with supporting back plates like the hyper 212. It has 2 usb 3.0 ports up top in front next to the audio
jacks. The somewhat plain exterior will let you dremel a whole in the side for a clear plexiglass or acrylic window.

You might want to paint the interior black first though. Moving on to our choices in gpu(mine has changed):

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ikS1

That sapphire card I picked at first only has a 2yr warranty and is unproven(based on an utter lack of reviews by
users at newegg). The asus card you selected has a 3yr warranty but poor reviews at newegg. It was also $50
more than the sapphire. The xfx double dissipation in the build now has a lifetime warranty and very favorable
reviews at newegg. It's pretty good at overclocking as well. Lastly, it's 40 bucks cheaper than the asus.

Edit: forgot to mention the antec 300 two has tool-less drive bays(5.25in and 3.5in. Not sure about the ssd spots.).

the problem with the XFX is that you chose the non black edition and when i look at benchmarks all i see is the black edition which is about $340.thats more than the asus one by $10 and the sapphire one by $30 and warranty is a life time one but i expect to upgrade within 2-3 years which is what the asus and sapphire warranties expire so i will most likely get the sapphire one because it's cheaper and just as good as the asus and xfx BE
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September 24, 2012 12:05:23 AM

idk if xfx still has double lifetime warranty(transfers to new owner on resale), but if it does, that would boost its
resale value. The non black edition with the same cooler should oc as well, you just do it yourself and save money
vs the factory doing it and you pay more up front. That sapphire with dual fans and copper heat pipes looks like it
should both keep the card cool and quiet and allow for a decent oc. Sounds like you've picked some good kit.
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September 24, 2012 12:15:16 AM

jtenorj said:
idk if xfx still has double lifetime warranty(transfers to new owner on resale), but if it does, that would boost its
resale value. The non black edition with the same cooler should oc as well, you just do it yourself and save money
vs the factory doing it and you pay more up front. That sapphire with dual fans and copper heat pipes looks like it
should both keep the card cool and quiet and allow for a decent oc. Sounds like you've picked some good kit.

thank you and amuffin for helping me out
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September 24, 2012 12:20:17 AM

Glad to contribute on some small way.
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!