Frailty of US-Pakistan relations.

[badge]

Quote:

"The fact that the world's most-wanted terrorist was found on the outskirts of the capital, will only fuel suspicions Pakistan takes US money to fight terrorism, while covertly harbouring its perpetrators."

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/strike-compounds-frailty-of-uspakistan-relations-20110502-1e5bv.html

My comment: India would swallow Pakistan if not for the United States presence in the region and our position as Pakistan's ally. Looks like we have been in bed with Pakistan long enough. U.S. policy changes regarding Pakistan's place in the world are nearing.

 

[wanamingo]

Cool another war.

 

[buwish]

I don't think India would necessarily swallow them- remember, they both have nukes. Frankly, if those two "sworn enemies" went at it, regardless of conventional forces, it would be a blood bath and a half I'm afraid. I, along with most do not want to see that happen.

But yes, I agree with the statement that the Pakistanis were harboring bin Laden. There are two potential, yet disturbing issues. One, Ali Zardari (the Pakistani president) may not have known about it in the sense that he has minimal control over his intelligence forces and military. Two, if he knew, he has some explaining to do and a lot of it.

 

[geekapproved]

The US will continue to give 1billion a year to Pakistan, regardless of our relationship because of their value to us in Afghanistan against Al Qaeda and as a nuclear deterrent to India and China.

India and China are a regional superpower, soon to be joined by Russia. The US needs Pakistan as our military partner.

 

[4745454b]

My paranoid ex military co worker contacted me last night after this happened trying to tell me it was a fake, doctored stuff,etc. He said something about a photo on the net that was obviously faked. I told him I thought it was real, but I was reading about some other stuff. Looks like they had been watching this courier for a number of years according to something I read. The fact that he was so close to the beloved patriot capital and surrounded by military complexes to me speaks highly of what might have really been going on. I told him I'm much more interested in what fallout might happen between us and Pakistan then another "is he really dead" conspiracy.

 

[Onus]

Well, the problem of Pakistani hypocrisy will go away when the US Dollar becomes worthless (especially outside the country) over the next year or two.

 

[badge]

Frankly, if those two "sworn enemies" went at it, regardless of conventional forces, it would be a blood bath and a half I'm afraid. I, along with most do not want to see that happen.

China and Russia and the rest of the world would be drawn in. WWIII.

The US will continue to give 1billion a year to Pakistan, regardless of our relationship because of their value to us in Afghanistan against Al Qaeda and as a nuclear deterrent to India and China.

Very true Pakistan is a strategical ally. But what good is having a strategical ally if they are keeping our enemy Al Quaeda alive? I don't know how the United States can do this, but we will have won the war against Al Quaida when nations like Pakistan who fund (with our money) and provide safe haven for our enemy understand they will pay the harshest reality should such a government even think about harbaoring and supporting enemies like Bin Laden.

I told him I'm much more interested in what fallout might happen between us and Pakistan then another "is he really dead" conspiracy.

Kill them all and let god sort it out later.

El Kabong.

 

[buwish]

If Pakistan is so vital strategically speaking, I say we get the heck out of Afghanistan and Iraq and go for them next.

 

[Reynod]

badge I think you underestimate the ties between India and other Western countries ... which has been long and positive.

The US has interfered with Pakistan on a greater level ever since they obtained nuclear weapons, and, as the previous thread rightfully asserts, Pakistan's internal political divisions have threatened to destabilise the region for a number of years.

India has a much larger and better trained army, and nuclear weapons program which is much more responsive, flexible, and efficient.

In a war India would overwhelm Pakistan on any level - be it conventional or other.

India's main concern is that Pakistan would quickly resort to nuclear weapons as they are well aware they are undermanned, have lower level technology, and poorer tech support in terms of resupply and repairs.

Pakistan has a small number of small fission devices and argueably the capacity for a small boosted fission device up to 40 KT ... India has boosted fission and thermonuclear (megaton) capacity, despite weapons tests asserting anything to the contrary. China supplied technology to Pakistan for their program and probably feels responsible. India's program is largely self developed. India has argueably better missiles for delivering physics packages.

India has therefore placed a large number of small asset targetted nuclear weapons on 24 hr readiness ... in that event ... and spend significant intelligence on identifying where Pakistan's main firing points (mobile and fixed) are located.

It would all be over in 3 hrs ... time from confirmation that Pakistan had ordered a nuclear strike till India had turned 35 % of Pakistan into rubble.

You will find at the backend of every significant discussion between the US and Pakistan there is a reciprocal call to India to ensure they stay calm.

The border is very active ... and has been for years.

It is the spot on the planet where some sort of nuclear incident is most likely to happen.

If radical extremists in the ISI ever do gain control of Pakistan the place would be wiped off the map twice ... first by India and then 2 hrs later from submarine fired US assets off the coast ... just to make sure.

China knows this ... hence their call today for non-intervention, and support for Pakistan's current moderate government.

The Chinese are equally as worried about Pakistan.

 

[4745454b]

I think its about time we follow what Stephen Hawking has been saying and pack up the "smart people" on this planet and leave. On our way out we can nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Seeing as we lack interstellar travel, I do believe it's about time for another world war. Unpopular as it is, it will get rid of a lot of jocks, and let us "nerds" father some kids for once. Perhaps we can raise the avg IQ a bit? (I'm mostly serious about this idea btw. Sad that people will die, but SOMETHING has to happen.)

 

[badge]

Politics regarding the death of Bin Laden

- After campaigning against most of the things Bush did to protect the American people, Obama when in office decided to support those very things.

-What President Bush did to support, train and prepare the U.S. Special Forces is still in place and Bush deserves a lot of credit for it.

-Guantanomo, military commisions and the Patriot Act, all criticized by Obama during the 2008 election, are key to getting Bin Laden.

- Obama said he wants to cut another $400 billion in defense spending over a ten year period. That would come on top of the $40 billion in cuts he proposed in the 2012 budget He released two months earlier. The rationale will simply be that America is safer, so a smaller military will do just fine. Obama won’t have to say this explicitly, but others in his political camp are bound to. Those decisions – troop withdrawals, going light on Libya, defense cuts – may come back to haunt the president later. But in the short term, he’ll have an easier time.

- the 9% increase in Obama's approval rating will be shortlived. The poor economy, jobs and pump prices will be the issues at hand 16 months from now at election time.

Politics of Pakistan

-The U.S. relationship with Pakistan gives us a relationship with a muslim country who has nuclear weapons who did not need to participate and assit the U.S. in it's war on terror. Pakistan allows the U.S. to use their bases to resupply our troops in Afghanistan. The U.S. Has overflight rights. We have had understanding with the various Pakistani governments we would go in and seek high value terrorists targets, seek them out by what ever means necessary including the use of the many drones used over the years.

My comment: Pull financial aid to Pakistan until that nation's (corrupt) government answers why Bin Laden was financed, harbored and protected. In other words, our relationship with Pakistan as a bedpartner in the region needs to change. Pakistan's corrupt government presently supporting Al Queda must cease to exist. Any governemt who supports, harbors, provide weapons and financial aid to Al Queda should cease to exist. That is how an end to Al Queda will be accompolished. Well, we have the...

Obama Seals to count on.

 

[badge]

If Pakistan is so vital strategically speaking, I say we get the heck out of Afghanistan and Iraq and go for them next.

Party on Garth!


"I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you Ef with me, I'll kill you all."

-Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders

 

[neo700]

Quote:

"The fact that the world's most-wanted terrorist was found on the outskirts of the capital, will only fuel suspicions Pakistan takes US money to fight terrorism, while covertly harbouring its perpetrators."

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/strike-compounds-frailty-of-uspakistan-relations-20110502-1e5bv.html

My comment: India would swallow Pakistan if not for the United States presence in the region and our position as Pakistan's ally. Looks like we have been in bed with Pakistan long enough. U.S. policy changes regarding Pakistan's place in the world are nearing.

You are a thick headed fool just like the majority of American public who instead of doing some rational thinking contends with what is spoon fed to them by American Government. You have no idea what you are talking about. Well boy here are the facts

1. You said India will swallow Pakistan. Hun! Pakistan First fought with India In 1948 right after independence over Kashmir . British at the time of partition of India and Pakistan made sure that that only rusty old weapons are handed over to Pakistan moreover there was not a single ordinance factory in Pakistan at that time (I don’t think you know what ordinance factory is. It’s a factory which produces weapons).
Now think if you can that is. That Pakistan a newly born country which have to weapons production means and the only weapons it gets are old and rusty and are not fit to be taken to a war. Now what chance this country has in a battle against an enemy (India) whose army is the size of its entire population and who has multiple weapon manufacturing units and all the latest weapons of that time?
Well Pakistan fought in such a way that just in a couple of weeks it liberated a part of Kashmir and Pakistan army was way inside India’s territory. India ran to its daddy i.e. UN to stop Pakistan. Pakistan honored UN wishes and stopped. (which I think was a mistake as UN is nothing but a puppet show dancing at the tunes of America). However that’s another discussion for another time.

2. In 1965 Pakistan again kicked India’s Ass so hard that its bleeding to this day. America promised that it will aid Pakistan in that war but it didn’t (which should not come as a surprise as America never in history of Pakistan came to it’s aid or fulfilled its promise because Pakistan is the sole Muslim country which has the ability and capability to rise to the top of the ranks in the world order. And America and all the west knows it!).

3. Then in 1971 due to internal conflicts within Pakistan , East Pakistan got separated, which indian’s think is there victory( Hun! What can I say muslim ruled over them for a thousand years that insult is unbearable for them and they have to console themselves in some way

4. in Kargil in1999 Pakistan was again kicking that already bleeding Indian ass. But America intervened and Pakistan stopped.


And you say America is in bed with Pakistan for a long time now and it should get out. You foolish Boy its Pakistan who is preventing the mujahedeen from raping America from front and back. The day America stepped out of the bed Mujahedeen will force it to the ground and at that time nothing and noone will be able to save america

 

[4745454b]

If you're going to throw personal insults, you should at least do some digging to see if what you are trying to sling is even remotely accurate. I am 100% certain Badge comes from a military family, 95% certain he has served himself, and "reasonably certain" from your writing styles that he is older then you are.

What happens is that you come in talking about someone you know nothing about, and I (and perhaps others) won't believe you when you talk about things that have happened in Pakistan. If you want people to believe you, stop the insults and a few links would be nice.

 

[Reynod]

Neo lives in Pakistan and I give some credit to his insights so lets forget the personal slights and listen to some alternative viewpoints ... thats how we move forward as a planet.

Neo tell us more about the mujahedeen mate?

 

[4745454b]

I had a feeling as much. To much national pride in his statements.

 

[badge]

If you're going to throw personal insults, you should at least do some digging to see if what you are trying to sling is even remotely accurate. I am 100% certain Badge comes from a military family, 95% certain he has served himself, and "reasonably certain" from your writing styles that he is older then you are.

What happens is that you come in talking about someone you know nothing about, and I (and perhaps others) won't believe you when you talk about things that have happened in Pakistan. If you want people to believe you, stop the insults and a few links would be nice.

Yeah, my father served in the marines during the Korean War and was on the on the ground on the front lines for one year there. He was with the First marine division and received the Purple Heart and Distniguished Service medals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Marine_Division_(United_States)

4745454b I am willing to bet this guy has never served a day for his country. If He lives here He's the kind of guy you hate to see walk into your place of business. I'm sure He is the kind that creates a public disturbance where ever He goes with his Anti American attitude. Insult and argument is all He knows in the English world. I'm sure is highly disliked in his community. And for misquoting me I will say I trust a snake before I trust him.

I'm in the midst of some research and if Heebie Jeeb sticks around He can read my views on the [strike]powerful and feared world leader[/strike] derilict nation of Pakistan. Hopefully the guy will get beat to death in Walmart this morning for insulting some dumb American.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Actually for a fairly good depiction of the partition of Pakistan from India, I suggest renting a copy of Deepa Mehta's "Earth" - seems a real tragedy on both sides.

Personally I think Pakistan, esp. the ISI, is going to have to prove themselves as allies in the coming months or risk a backlash by Congress, no matter what Hilary Clinton or Barack Obama may have to say. The Paks seem to have a vested interest in not permitting Afghanistan to become safe and secure, and certainly not a democracy, so that they can continue to exert influence in the region.

@ Neo - reading the news, it seems the Taliban mujahedeen are much more of a threat to Pakistan than they are to Americans, seeing as how they were routinely blowing up your military bases and taking over sections of your country just a couple of years ago. If the American military had been given free reign to operate across the border, many Pak lives would have been spared.

I guess however if you favor Sharia law, including stoning to death women who marry outside their father's wishes and the female friends who attempt to help them, denying any education to females, treating them not even as second-class citizens but as chattels (i.e., property) as apparently Bin Laden did with his 5 wives who were not permitted to speak unless spoken to, then you would be in favor of protecting the Taliban..

 

[Reynod]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/05/world/asia/05compound.html

Seems Pakistan is very serious about getting to the bottom of this ...

Good news for international relations.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

It still reads like:
Ali Ben Khan bought a house, right next to the learning of pakistanni military, a huge house, no one ever came or went, so the Pakistannis couldnt figure it out.....
if only theyd gotten past the name Ali Ben Khan

 

[neo700]

If you're going to throw personal insults, you should at least do some digging to see if what you are trying to sling is even remotely accurate. I am 100% certain Badge comes from a military family, 95% certain he has served himself, and "reasonably certain" from your writing styles that he is older then you are.

What happens is that you come in talking about someone you know nothing about, and I (and perhaps others) won't believe you when you talk about things that have happened in Pakistan. If you want people to believe you, stop the insults and a few links would be nice.

I dont give a damn if anyone believes me or not. He insulted my country and what i could do i have done it and you say say HE COMES FROM MILITARY BACKGROUND now what does that suppose to mean han? from his writing it is clear that he doesnot have a faintest of clue what pakistan is what it stand for and what it is capable of

 

[4745454b]

He insulted my country

Really? Where? Is it an insult to say that India would "swallow" Pakistan? I'm sorry you take offense to that, but what if it were true? Just after WWII (and then again after the first gulf war in 1990/91.) there were jokes about how many gears Italian tanks had. (three in reverse, and one forward gear in case they got attacked from behind.) Its not an insult per se to the Italians, but a commentary about how fast those nations gave up land during the war. I didn't see where he called you names (S*nd n*gg*r) or anything of that sort.

HE COMES FROM MILITARY BACKGROUND now what does that suppose to mean

I was trying to point out that he is familiar with what an "ordinance factory" is. I'm sure there are readers here who have no idea so thank you for the explanation, but I was trying to point out that he doesn't.

it is clear that he doesnot have a faintest of clue what pakistan is what it stand for and what it is capable of

Perhaps, but instead of calmly explaining to us how he was so wrong, you decided to just insult him as many times as you could. Not everyone is as Vulcan as I so I'm sure there are some that agreed with you. I would argue that a reasonable person can debate something without calling others names. As a matter of fact my debate instructor in college said "those who resort to personal attacks first have the weaker side".

 

[neo700]

He insulted my country

Really? Where? Is it an insult to say that India would "swallow" Pakistan? I'm sorry you take offense to that, but what if it were true? Just after WWII (and then again after the first gulf war in 1990/91.) there were jokes about how many gears Italian tanks had. (three in reverse, and one forward gear in case they got attacked from behind.) Its not an insult per se to the Italians, but a commentary about how fast those nations gave up land during the war. I didn't see where he called you names (S*nd n*gg*r) or anything of that sort.

HE COMES FROM MILITARY BACKGROUND now what does that suppose to mean

I was trying to point out that he is familiar with what an "ordinance factory" is. I'm sure there are readers here who have no idea so thank you for the explanation, but I was trying to point out that he doesn't.

it is clear that he doesnot have a faintest of clue what pakistan is what it stand for and what it is capable of

Perhaps, but instead of calmly explaining to us how he was so wrong, you decided to just insult him as many times as you could. Not everyone is as Vulcan as I so I'm sure there are some that agreed with you. I would argue that a reasonable person can debate something without calling others names. As a matter of fact my debate instructor in college said "those who resort to personal attacks first have the weaker side".

you forget the bed comment and another thing

Americans say love america or leave america.OK every patriotic citizen should think in the same way. But do not think that people of other countries are inferior. america is sole super power of today nobody denies it. my country doesnot compare to america in any way i know it but i repeat dont it is inferior

 

[4745454b]

"to be in bed with" is not an insult. It could also have been phrased "we have co-operated with". It means we have had ties with or assisted/helped, etc. America is "in bed with" many countries, such as England or Canada. Looking over Badge's statement he seemed to be saying its time we end our ties with Pakistan.

Edit: Do you realize you write the word "hun" in your posts often? I wasn't sure what that meant so I looked it up. It seems its Punjabi for "Yes". Even if you know the language, each country can apply the words differently.

 

[badge]

Speaking of insulting you old horseradish aroma.

quoting the entry to this discussion:

You are a thick headed fool just like the majority of American public who instead of doing some rational thinking contends with what is spoon fed to them by American Government. You have no idea what you are talking about. Well boy here are the facts

You foolish Boy its Pakistan who is preventing the mujahedeen from raping America from front and back. The day America stepped out of the bed Mujahedeen will force it to the ground and at that time nothing and noone will be able to save america

[strike]You are [/strike]I am a thick headed fool just like the majority of [strike]American public [/strike] my aromatic countrymen who instead of doing some rational thinking contends with what is spoon fed to them by [strike]American Government[/strike] Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves. [strike]You[/strike] I have no idea what [strike]you are [/strike] I am talking about. Well I'm a little boy here are the facts...I smell like unwashed balz/fixed

I dont give [strike]a damn [/strike] a perfectly good head diaper if anyone believes me or not. [strike]He insulted [/strike]I insult my country and what i could do i [strike]have done it [/strike] failed miserably at life by not washing for one year and 40 days and [strike]you[/strike] I say say HE COMES FROM MILITARY BACKGROUND and I from a derilict hebe jebe country now what does that suppose to mean handsome? from his writing [strike]it is clear that he doesnot have a faintest of clue what [/strike] pakistan is [strike]what it stand for [/strike] the land of smell, reak and fundamental beady eyed political idjuts and what it is capable of, besides being the lowest life country known to mankind with the most dirty people on earth...I am lower than a snake and not to be trusted. /fixed

I see advancing the frontiers of human understaning is not an integeral part of any discussion you have on this forum 'stinky'. My eyes are watering and will be two days after you leave the room. You and your country don't belong. Stinky, you are the enemy.