Which cpus is better? K10 or Bulldozer?

[Ikmalhidayat]

now, im really in tight budget (around $97 in USD or EUR73 in Euro)
i had reviewed these today cpus (AMD only) and choose for best value for me.
i want to keep my mobo, ASRock N68C-GS (AM3+ ready at ver P1.30)(8-core supported)(max TDP: 95W)(HT: 1024MHz)

AMD Athlon II X2 270 ($64 in USD or EUR48 in Euro)(including shipping)
Core: 2 / Regor
Speed: 3.4GHz
L1: 2X 64KB/instruction cache, 2X 64KB/data cache
L2: 2X 1024KB
L3: none
Technology: 45mm
TDP: 65W (pass my mobo)

AMD Athlon II X3 455 (unlockable to Phenom II X4 B50) ($75 in USD or EUR56 in Euro)(including shipping)
Core: 3 (Rana) / unlocked 4 (Propus)
Speed: 3.3GHz
HT link: 4000MHz
L1: 3X/4X 64KB/instruction cache, 3X 64KB/data cache
L2: 3X/4X 512KB
L3: none
Technology:45mm
TDP: 95W (max supported cpu)

AMD FX-4100 ($116 for USD or EUR87 in Euro)(available at local)
Core: 4 / Bulldozer
Speed: 3.6GHz (Turbo Boost to 3.8GHz)
L1: 32KB instruction cache per core, 16KB data cache per core
L2: 1024KB per core
L3 12MB shared cache (correct me if im wrong)
Technology: 32mm
TDP: 95W (max supported cpu)

funny, FX-4300 sold for USD156, EUR116 , locally. is it an actual prize cuz i see the prize for around $124 mostly in internet.
for FX-4100, i can wait for investment (a month or few) but available locally
for other option, i need to order online (but i dont know how and i dont have credit card, just cash). hope my relatives help me to do so...

questions: what should i buy for one of the followings? for cpu with TDP of 95W, can i OC safely with my mobo?

(i can upgrade from ddr2 to ddr3 later on)

 

[FinneousPJ]

Value depends most on your intended usage

 

[Ikmalhidayat]

i want to try multi-task cpu since i always use single core cpu (Sempron)

 

[FinneousPJ]

I would definitely go for the FX-4300 if you can save up.

 

[Ikmalhidayat]

at first i really want fx 4300 but check again... its spec is too... somewhat... the same like Bulldozer and same/lower level as i3 with its L1 cache memory (plus, its too expensive locally at here... weird)

L1: 32KB instruction cache and 16KB data cache per core (64KB instruction cache per module and 1 module = 2 cores)
L2: 1024KB per core (2048KB per module, sharing)
L3: 4MB cache shared to all module.
plus, i dont see any difference between bulldozer and piledriver although i know piledriver is better though.

Not seeing i5 though...

thats why im thinking again...
i want to buy athlon ii x3 455 cuz its propus based (Phenom II X4 B50) but with its TDP 95W is my maximum TDP for my mobo, i wonder can i unlock it and overclock it... im scared if i broke my mobo again (my last mobo failed cuz of unstable psu, old psu which is very low watt in 12V rail).

for athlon ii x2 270 though, im ok with ocsince it has 65W TDP.

am i wrong about OC thing here?

 

[FinneousPJ]

There's no guarantee the X3 will unlock so if you want a quad, you need to buy a quad.

 

[simon12]

If you get an FX CPU you need to get DDR3 RAM with it as they will not run with DDR2. Note if you unlock the 445 it will be over 95W TPD my brother did this on a similar board and it runs OK but the board temps are high. The Athlon x3 is definitely worth it over the x2 so cross the x2 athlon off. Its up to you if you think the FX + cost of new RAM is worth it over the Athlon x3.

 

[Ikmalhidayat]

FinneousPJ said:

There's no guarantee the X3 will unlock so if you want a quad, you need to buy a quad.

I know (since my Sempron was failed to unlock second core) but i will try my best. even if it fails, i still got tri-core good enough for my usual purpose (emulating games, video decoding, audio synthesizing, etc).

If you get an FX CPU you need to get DDR3 RAM with it as they will not run with DDR2. Note if you unlock the 445 it will be over 95W TPD my brother did this on a similar board and it runs OK but the board temps are high. The Athlon x3 is definitely worth it over the x2 so cross the x2 athlon off. Its up to you if you think the FX + cost of new RAM is worth it over the Athlon x3.

1. Yeah, i know about FX cpu that i need to use only ddr3 (my mobo max ddr3-1600) so i will be upgrading it for 4GB (i i brought K10 instead, will it support and fully use ddr3-1600 ram?)

2. board temp, thats fine but the only think i scared is will it damaged my mobo?? since when your brother used the spec? i usually use my pc and oc it till it dies~~

3. yeah. i think i should go for X3 since its prize is not that difference (plus, it fast too) except X3 has lower L2 cache memory...

4. for FX cpu... im thinking most about its L1 cache, all models of FX (Bulldozer and Piledriver). maybe thats why these FX cpus are weak for single-thread programs. im comparing FX L1 cache with my Intel Atom N475 and VIA C7-M netbooks (its instruction cache is the same as n475 but n475 has higher cache for L1 in total)
(C7-M has way as high as K10 in L1, 128KB but low in L2, 128KB. maybe thats why VIA C7-M is faster than Intel Atom N475 even C7-M has 1.2GHz which lower than N475 which has 1.833GHz)


Comparing FX-4300 and Intel Atom N475
FX-4300
core/s: 4 cores (2 cores in module)
speed: 3.8GHz
L1: X2 64KB shared instruction caches, X4 16 data cache (64KB shared instruction cache per module, 16 data cache per core)
L2: X2 2MB shared exclusive caches (2MB shared cache per module)
L3: 4MB shared cache
Technology: 32mm

Atom N475
core/s: 1 core, 2 thread per core (hyper-threading technology)
speed: 1.833GHz
L1: 32KB instruction cache, 24KB write-back data cache
L2: 512KB
L3: none
Technology: 45mm

so.. since 2 cores per module, 64KB is then cut by half and.. 32KB per core, not directly divided cuz its is shared.

so.. L1 cache of FX is... smaller than Atom N475 when combined together with data cache... even with larger L3 cache, what do i know is cpu tends to use L1 cache first, if not enough memory, moves to L2, then L3. My netbook is very slow.. slower than mere 1.2GHz cpu...

guess thats why most test bench said single-thread performance for FX cpus are worse than Phenom II and most intel cpu...
great architecture but looks the same like intel architecture (hyper-threading tech) which FX's 2 cores per module feels like 2 thread per core (hyper-threading), even with turbo boost...

not to offense since im always with AMD for a decade (using Athlon 64 cpu since then, i think even before that). i like AMD more than Intel, the best when they released K10 architecture. but of course i like both of them, just more to AMD. im been using intel not that long (notebook intel core 2 duo, 1.6GHz and currently netbook Atom)(never had Intel desktop pc)

(sorry for long thread)

 

[stark11]

Hi,
I have a FX 8350 (8Core 4.0 GHz), Phenom II X 840 (4core, no L3, 3.2 GHz), i3 3220 (@3.3GHz) and dual core like pentium E5700 @ 3.00GHz (also others too long list to continue).
The reason i have mentioned above is to validate my observation as a end user:
Now i think best route for you is following:
1. get the Athlon X3 455
but DO CHECK that your motherboard supports unlocking third core.
the reason for this is, even though the new FX is delight to use (piledriver) but as you would need to upgrade your RAM for it, so wait for Steamroller next year SAVE UP and get a hexa-core with high speed RAM.
2.Also if you could get your hands on a quad Athlon go for it. on my Phenom II X840 i was able to play all games 60+ (like cpu intensive Borderland,Far cry 3 etc) @ 1920*1080 resolution. Also in general application it beats dual core of same generation weather from AMD or intel hands down; Hence i would suggest you to avoid dual core, way to slow after a quad-core. you would surely benefit in video trans-coding, emulation or Virtual machines (i was easily running on x840) with a Quad core.
hope this helps.

 

[logainofhades]

FX 4300 is better than the 4100. FX 4300 is Piledriver based, also called Vishera, which is an improvement over Bulldoze. Sadly, your DDR2 will not work with FX as stated above. That leaves you with the X3 unless you can hunt down an X4 Athlon II or Phenom II.

 

[simon12]

FinneousPJ said:

There's no guarantee the X3 will unlock so if you want a quad, you need to buy a quad.

I know (since my Sempron was failed to unlock second core) but i will try my best. even if it fails, i still got tri-core good enough for my usual purpose (emulating games, video decoding, audio synthesizing, etc).



1. Yeah, i know about FX cpu that i need to use only ddr3 (my mobo max ddr3-1600) so i will be upgrading it for 4GB (i i brought K10 instead, will it support and fully use ddr3-1600 ram?)

2. board temp, thats fine but the only think i scared is will it damaged my mobo?? since when your brother used the spec? i usually use my pc and oc it till it dies~~

3. yeah. i think i should go for X3 since its prize is not that difference (plus, it fast too) except X3 has lower L2 cache memory...

4. for FX cpu... im thinking most about its L1 cache, all models of FX (Bulldozer and Piledriver). maybe thats why these FX cpus are weak for single-thread programs. im comparing FX L1 cache with my Intel Atom N475 and VIA C7-M netbooks (its instruction cache is the same as n475 but n475 has higher cache for L1 in total)
(C7-M has way as high as K10 in L1, 128KB but low in L2, 128KB. maybe thats why VIA C7-M is faster than Intel Atom N475 even C7-M has 1.2GHz which lower than N475 which has 1.833GHz)


Comparing FX-4300 and Intel Atom N475
FX-4300
core/s: 4 cores (2 cores in module)
speed: 3.8GHz
L1: X2 64KB shared instruction caches, X4 16 data cache (64KB shared instruction cache per module, 16 data cache per core)
L2: X2 2MB shared exclusive caches (2MB shared cache per module)
L3: 4MB shared cache
Technology: 32mm

Atom N475
core/s: 1 core, 2 thread per core (hyper-threading technology)
speed: 1.833GHz
L1: 32KB instruction cache, 24KB write-back data cache
L2: 512KB
L3: none
Technology: 45mm

so.. since 2 cores per module, 64KB is then cut by half and.. 32KB per core, not directly divided cuz its is shared.

so.. L1 cache of FX is... smaller than Atom N475 when combined together with data cache... even with larger L3 cache, what do i know is cpu tends to use L1 cache first, if not enough memory, moves to L2, then L3. My netbook is very slow.. slower than mere 1.2GHz cpu...

guess thats why most test bench said single-thread performance for FX cpus are worse than Phenom II and most intel cpu...
great architecture but looks the same like intel architecture (hyper-threading tech) which FX's 2 cores per module feels like 2 thread per core (hyper-threading), even with turbo boost...

not to offense since im always with AMD for a decade (using Athlon 64 cpu since then, i think even before that). i like AMD more than Intel, the best when they released K10 architecture. but of course i like both of them, just more to AMD. im been using intel not that long (notebook intel core 2 duo, 1.6GHz and currently netbook Atom)(never had Intel desktop pc)

(sorry for long thread)

1 Yes any CPU will fully use any DDR3 RAM you put in it
2 My brothers PC would not overclock past stock with the extra core but reached 3.7GHz with only 3 but al this will vary between different chips.
3 & 4 Look at benchmarks instead of specs as no intel and AMD CPUs specs really show the true performance difference and atoms perform way below anything else regardless of the cache amounts.

 

[Ikmalhidayat]

Hi,
I have a FX 8350 (8Core 4.0 GHz), Phenom II X 840 (4core, no L3, 3.2 GHz), i3 3220 (@3.3GHz) and dual core like pentium E5700 @ 3.00GHz (also others too long list to continue).
The reason i have mentioned above is to validate my observation as a end user:
Now i think best route for you is following:
1. get the Athlon X3 455
but DO CHECK that your motherboard supports unlocking third core.
the reason for this is, even though the new FX is delight to use (piledriver) but as you would need to upgrade your RAM for it, so wait for Steamroller next year SAVE UP and get a hexa-core with high speed RAM.
2.Also if you could get your hands on a quad Athlon go for it. on my Phenom II X840 i was able to play all games 60+ (like cpu intensive Borderland,Far cry 3 etc) @ 1920*1080 resolution. Also in general application it beats dual core of same generation weather from AMD or intel hands down; Hence i would suggest you to avoid dual core, way to slow after a quad-core. you would surely benefit in video trans-coding, emulation or Virtual machines (i was easily running on x840) with a Quad core.
hope this helps.

I really want to get FX-4300 but its expensive locally and hard to get it too... still, im worried about its architecture like L1 cache, etc.
I do want at least Athlon X2 for performance and cheapness but due to Athlon II X3 455 are basically phenom ii x4 propus with 4th core disabled, maybe i could enable it with ACC (yeah. my mobo support Core Unlocker despite its Nvidia nForce 630a chipset. yeah i know this chipset is not OC friendly but its cheap that features unlocker). go for unlocker~~!!

It depends on your GPU too... later, i will buy Sapphire HD 7750 low-profile (order...) cuz its the only fastest yet uses less wattage from 12V rail (good enough for 300W psu with/without 6-pin power connector)

logainofhades said:

FX 4300 is better than the 4100. FX 4300 is Piledriver based, also called Vishera, which is an improvement over Bulldoze. Sadly, your DDR2 will not work with FX as stated above. That leaves you with the X3 unless you can hunt down an X4 Athlon II or Phenom II.

ehem~~~ did u forget my mobo supports both ddr2 and ddr3 ram? plus, ddr2-1066 and ddr3-1600 max~~~ i can buy ddr3-1366 ram since nowadays ddr3 ram is cheaper than ddr2 (old).
i know ddr2 will not be supported by FX or any future AM3+ cpu. good thing is my mobo, great for compatibility~~

even so, maybe i will stick to K10 cpu (AM3 cpu) since im quite unsatisfied with Bulldozer/Piledriver architecture except for its OC performance since Sandy bridge era~~

simon12 said:

1 Yes any CPU will fully use any DDR3 RAM you put in it
2 My brothers PC would not overclock past stock with the extra core but reached 3.7GHz with only 3 but al this will vary between different chips.
3 & 4 Look at benchmarks instead of specs as no intel and AMD CPUs specs really show the true performance difference and atoms perform way below anything else regardless of the cache amounts.

1. but, i read that most of am3 cpu only uses ddr2-1066 and ddr3-1333 (or ddr3-1366) or am i wrong?
2. you mean he cannot oc the unlocked cpu or he didnt want to oc it? yeah. i know every chip may vary but this might be a good experiences~~
3&4. yeah... i might be wrong with comparison. but i do see the test benchmark and single-thread performance was bad for FX series but for multi-thread performance, FX can be comparatively with i7. thats why im looking at its spec why so weak with single-thread performance and Lx cache might be the reason.

 

[simon12]

1 if the motherboard supports it at 1600MHz then all CPUs will use it at that.
2 With 4 cores active no overclock is stable I suspect due to the board not supporting 125W CPUs
3 there is alot more to performance than the cache sizes when comparing different chips

 

[logainofhades]

logainofhades said:

FX 4300 is better than the 4100. FX 4300 is Piledriver based, also called Vishera, which is an improvement over Bulldoze. Sadly, your DDR2 will not work with FX as stated above. That leaves you with the X3 unless you can hunt down an X4 Athlon II or Phenom II.

ehem~~~ did u forget my mobo supports both ddr2 and ddr3 ram? plus, ddr2-1066 and ddr3-1600 max~~~ i can buy ddr3-1366 ram since nowadays ddr3 ram is cheaper than ddr2 (old).
i know ddr2 will not be supported by FX or any future AM3+ cpu. good thing is my mobo, great for compatibility~~

even so, maybe i will stick to K10 cpu (AM3 cpu) since im quite unsatisfied with Bulldozer/Piledriver architecture except for its OC performance since Sandy bridge era~~

If your budget is only $97 then FX shouldn't even be a consideration at this point since you would have to buy ram. That was my point regarding the ram and FX.

 

[Ikmalhidayat]

1 if the motherboard supports it at 1600MHz then all CPUs will use it at that.
2 With 4 cores active no overclock is stable I suspect due to the board not supporting 125W CPUs
3 there is alot more to performance than the cache sizes when comparing different chips

1. depends to mobo too huh~~
2. make sense... bad news for 95W mobo user
3. then, i should make more research about it... but what makes me furious is like my netbook HPmini 2133 which uses VIA C7-M ULV 1.2GHz is totally faster than my current Intel Atom N475 despite of its 1.86GHz clock speed (it has hyper-threading). C7-M ULV is totally a true single-core cpu and Atom N475 is hyper-threading cpu which has 2 thread in one core. is it makes it slower? (Via C7-M is older, 65mm while Atom N475, Pineapple is newer, 45mm and faster in speed.
What do i found is C7-M has more L1 cache, 128KB (instruction+data) but less L2 cache, 128KB (i think is 16-way). Atom N475 is 630MHz faster but has lower L1 cache, 32KB instruction and 24KB data cache despite has bigger L2 cache, 512KB.

Really funny... really funny... just cant believe it... VIA C7-M uses ddr2-667 and Atom N475 uses DDR3-1066

logainofhades said:

If your budget is only $97 then FX shouldn't even be a consideration at this point since you would have to buy ram. That was my point regarding the ram and FX.

yeah... might be true...
plus, i cant wait to test my first time ever, multi-core pc desktop pc~~~. can wait to test it with cpu-hunger programs like PCSX2 emulator. so, maybe i should choose Athlon x3 455 then. if possible, i might unlock the core and truns out be Phenon II X4 B50~~~~

 

[Motopsychojdn]

I'm not sure where you are from as you post quoting euros but http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1724262&CatId=4432 is a 95w chip,
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4904562&CatId=7339 if your plate supports it
any chance you could grab one of those?
Moto

 

[Ikmalhidayat]

I'm not sure where you are from as you post quoting euros but http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1724262&CatId=4432 is a 95w chip,
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4904562&CatId=7339 if your plate supports it
any chance you could grab one of those?
Moto

well, im living at most popular AMD chip main manufactured centre, (open your AMD CPU and see made in what) and thats where im living currently.
since this is international website, i use EUR or USD currency only (as reference), mostly USD.

thats quite cheap compare to the one that sales locally!! FX6300 for USD129 is incredible!!! (unless, maybe shipping fee is) Phenom II X6 1045T for USD99.99 too!! (also, the shipping fee..)

is the shipping fee included?

by the way, my mobo support those cpus (but for FX-6300, i need to buy DDR3 ram)

 

[FinneousPJ]

AMD's made in Malaysia I think?

The free shipping's in USA only.

 

[Ikmalhidayat]

AMD's made in Malaysia I think?

The free shipping's in USA only.

1. yeah, its true. but some cpus made in China too. i dont know about intel cpus. but what do i found that usual quality one should written, 'DIFFUSED IN GERMANY | MADE IN MALAYSIA'

2. free shipping in USA only... if shipping to here... i wonder how long and the fee... Locally, in my area, theres no K10 cpu available in stores but most of it is Intel i3 i5 i7 Pentium and few of FX series available (except online stores which im scared of been rip)

Sapphire graphic cards is not available widely on my area too... only Gigabyte and Asus which the prize is not rebated.

 

[FinneousPJ]

You'll want to buy locally. Which FX CPUs are available?

 

[Ikmalhidayat]

You'll want to buy locally. Which FX CPUs are available?

There are FX-4100, FX-4300 and FX-8320 (FX-4300) sold for a higher prize.... above $144 in USD. FX8320 though is cheaper than retail prize.

i checked FX8320 doesnt not fitted for my mobo cuz of 125W.


maybe i should choose to buy AMD Athlon X3 455 for now. maybe i could unlock it to 4-core, Phenom ii X4 B50 (without L3 cache). but, phenom ii x2 is kinda fast too (although is more expensive in local online)

i wonder second hand (used) CPU will do for me?

 

[FinneousPJ]

You could buy a used CPU if you think you can trust the sellers.

 

[Ikmalhidayat]

You could buy a used CPU if you think you can trust the sellers.

i mean by used cpu/s, do they function like as new even been used for 2-4 years?

should i buy used cpu/s or unopened (not yet used) cpu/s?

 

[FinneousPJ]

Yes, they do function. If they do function. They're used after all :lol:

 

[Ikmalhidayat]

right.. time to close this thread...

Maybe, i should just use K10 architecture for now. I will choose AMD Athlon II X3 455 and when i bought it, will tell you guys~~

Thanks!!!!
[choosing answer...]