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PC upgrade help

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October 8, 2012 1:08:06 PM

I'm looking to do some upgrades on my custom built PC as I've been seeing some performance issues on graphics intensive games, especially MMO's. I'm seeing 100% CPU usage when in the game, and especially when in crowded areas that require a lot of rendering. Looking to spend no more than $500 if possible. I'd like to try and upgrade the memory, vid card and harddrive for that amount if possible. I'm up for suggestions of course on whether upgrading any of these might provide more bang for the buck.

Current Build:
Case: Eagletech Sidewinder Gaming Tower

Power Supply: 600 Watt -- XION SuperNova XON-600R14

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E6850 (2x 3.0GHz/4MB L2 Cache)

Board: Asus Striker Extreme nForce® 680i SLI Chipset w/7.1 Sound, Gb LAN, S-ATA Raid, USB 2.0, IEEE-1394 Dual PCI-E MB
http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_775/Strik...

Memory: PNY Brand DDR2 4GB (2x2G)

Drive: 320 GB HARD DRIVE [Serial-ATA-II, 3Gb, 7200 RPM, 16M Cache)

Video: Nvidia GTS 250 1GB


Again, I'm looking to get the biggest bang for my buck in terms of improved performance. I'd like to upgrade all 3 but would be up for spending more on say a SSD drive and vid card. I'm really at a loss though as there are so many options out there right now.

More about : upgrade

a b B Homebuilt system
October 8, 2012 4:22:51 PM

A10-5800k cpu $130 bucks it is a 3.8 quad core with a built in card into its cpu a HD 7660D so you are getting a quad core at 3.8 ghz as well as a HD 7660D graphics card for a 130 price tag. Plus it is about like a i3 in comparison

Throw in the fastest ram you can (the faster the ram the better this cpu performs) and a decent FM2 socket motherboard and you will have one sweet gaming machine. In fact i made a build http://pcpartpicker.com/p/jIlh making a whole new tower from scratch. Grand price for it all? 487.28 and you can adjust that build to how you like it.
October 8, 2012 4:43:31 PM

Not really sure about that integrated vid card. Really looking for something beefy.
Related resources
a b B Homebuilt system
October 8, 2012 4:54:25 PM

ukman408 said:
Not really sure about that integrated vid card. Really looking for something beefy.



The igp allows for crossfire plus the mobo i suggested allows for crossfire. Add that the cpu compares to an i3 cpu. Add that the fm2 socket is new so allows for you to have a future upgrade path later down the road. And if the igp seems not to be enough you can always later either crossfire or get a newer gpu to put in. The cpu performs as well as an i3 and is a quad core cpu. at 3.8ghz. Only way i could see you improving over the costs of this build would be to buy an i3 2100 ($105) buy a discrete gpu a 7750 ($105) plus a new mobo 1155 ivy which will run you about $85-100 for a decent one. So about $295-$310 compared to the cost of the mobo and apu cost of $205. But ultimately the choice is yours.
October 9, 2012 1:16:21 PM

After talking to a few other guys, I think what you're suggesting zolton is right. The board I have now, while not crappy doesnt support the better, cheaper DDR3 memory so it might be time to just upgrade that as well. Anyone else got any suggestions?
October 10, 2012 2:27:55 AM

Lemme ask another question if I may as a n00b. Would I even need to add a vid card to the setup you suggested Z? If I added one would it work in conjunction or simply replace it? Since video processing seems to be one of the drags on the system I have now, I just want to make sure that what you suggested is better than the Nvidia GTS 250 I currently have. I guess tech's improved as I'm used to integrated graphics processors being far below the stand alone models.
October 10, 2012 12:15:25 PM

I dont see the 7660 on that gpu chart. I did read a few reviews of the A10-5800k last night and it does seem to be a good mid-tier set which is probably what my budget will dictate I get. I did read a few reviews that stated that if u wanted a higher end graphics card that it might be best to go with an i3 or i5 board/processor since the chip has a cpu and gpu on it, it sort of limits the upside on the cpu alone. I guess I'm just trying to see if the onboard gpu will assist and make a vid cards gpu better of it it'll just override it.
October 10, 2012 12:25:04 PM

Sorry for making so many posts...disregard that last question. I reread that review with some coffee in me and took this out of it....

"If you find that you need more graphics horsepower than the onboard solution provides, the Dual Graphics feature makes it possible to add a discrete graphics card to work in conjunction with Trinity’s GPU. Fortunately, you don’t have to spend a lot of money either. AMD recommends anywhere from a HD 6450 to HD 6670 discrete video card, depending on the the APU being used."

Now onto a different question. I'm definitively going with a SSD Drive. A few questions on those....What should I install on the SSD exactly? Unless I spend several hundred dollars I wont be able to install all of even my most recent games on it. Should I just load the OS on the SSD and keep my games on my 7500RPM drive which I will make the secondary drive? If that's the case I can just get one of the 120GB cards. Otherwise I'd need to go more to the 256GB drives to get most of my newer games on the SSD.

As with the CPU and vid cards, I'm not sure what specs to look for on the SSD's themselves. I'm seeing a lot of things like 4k random read speeds up to 100,000 IOPS and sustained sequential read speeds of 540MB/s. Are those the numbers to pay attention to? One card for example that caught my eye was the Samsung 840 MZ-7PD256BW 2.5

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
October 10, 2012 12:30:41 PM

Whats your budget?

The APU is not for serious gamers its good yes but for budget gamers. If your building with a half way decent budget you will beat anything it can offer graphically with a dedicated card.
October 10, 2012 12:45:45 PM

I posted my build and budget in the first post but basically I'd like to stay at or under $500 for the whole project. I might be able to convince the wife to let me go up maybe to $600 overall but I personally would like to keep it lower if possible.

Now having said that, most of the games I typically run are MMO's, with the occasional game like Batman: Arkham City or LOTR: War in the North. I'm really not in a rush so I'm very grateful for multiple peoples views on what I can do with what I currently have. I just need something better than I have that'll last me for another 3-5 years before my next upgrade.

Being a noob though, I just get overloaded with all the various options. I built my first set through ibuypower.com and almost assuredly overspent years ago when I first got it. Back then though I was using school loans to pay for it and didnt have a budget. Doesn't help me either that a lot of the comparison tools on sites like newegg, don't always have the same categories to compare cards/boards/cpu's across the board.

Perhaps I'm also maybe looking too much into my upgrade? With what I mentioned above maybe I am just a mid-tier gamer who might be overspending/overcompensating?
October 10, 2012 12:52:20 PM

Sorry i missed the budget part in the OP my bad.

I stick by what I said though The APU option is for very low budget gamers, the fact you already have parts of a machine we can cannibalise means you dont need to stoop that low

Reusing your Case, PSU, HDD, DVD

EVGA SuperClocked 02G-P4-2662-KR GeForce GTX 660 2GB 192-bit GDDR5
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

COOLER MASTER Hyper TX3 RR-910-HTX3-G1 "Heatpipe Direct Contact" 92mm CPU Cooler
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

GIGABYTE GA-970A-UD3 AM3+ AMD 970 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Those parts total $503.95

Graphically that APU cant get near this not even close to the same league.
a b B Homebuilt system
October 10, 2012 1:00:51 PM

Not for serious gamers? I would guess that would mean what definition of serious gamer you are talking about. As there are all kinds. There are those who wear diapers while gaming to avoid trips to the restroom. There are those that shell out cash for each new cpu and gpu when they come out. regardless of how good their system already is. For these two types of gamers i would agree it would not be for them.

But some one looking for a great cpu and a decent gpu that will play games it suits just fine. Would a person with a huge budget and wanting max fps be better suited to an i5 and a discrete gpu? Yes they would. But this apu can keep up with and at often times beat an i3 3220. I would not call that a cpu that is not for serious gamers.

If a budget can get you an i5 quad and a great discrete gpu thatis the best choice for max fps. But not every one can afford to shell out $750+ for a build. And for those who can not this cpu works quite well.
a b B Homebuilt system
October 10, 2012 1:07:57 PM

wr6133 said:
Sorry i missed the budget part in the OP my bad.

I stick by what I said though The APU option is for very low budget gamers, the fact you already have parts of a machine we can cannibalise means you dont need to stoop that low

Reusing your Case, PSU, HDD, DVD

Graphically that APU cant get near this not even close to the same league.


And you recommend a phenom x4 over a 5800k? I suggest you do a little home work on the 5800k. A phenom ii x4 barely competes with:

Core 2 Extreme QX6850, QX6800
Core 2 Quad Q9550, Q9450, Q9400
Core i5-650, -655K, -660, -661, -670, -680
Core i3-2100T, -2120T

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-o...

While the 5800k can compete with and at often times beat a i3 3220 putting it on par with:

Core i7-980, -970, -960
Core i7-870, -875K
Core i3-3225, -3220,-2100, -2105, -2120, -2125, -2130

So you are recommending a cpu that is in the fourth bracket tier of the cpu hierarchy over one that competes with the tier two bracket with intel? Really? Mind boggling.
October 10, 2012 1:10:23 PM

zolton33 said:
Not for serious gamers? I would guess that would mean what definition of serious gamer you are talking about. As there are all kinds. There are those who wear diapers while gaming to avoid trips to the restroom. There are those that shell out cash for each new cpu and gpu when they come out. regardless of how good their system already is. For these two types of gamers i would agree it would not be for them.


Not for serious gamers or for budget gamers meaning its not suited for running the latest titles at high settings with solid FPS. Look because its new and shiney doesn't mean you need to recommend everybody looking to build a rig buys it. The APU is for a niche market now for a gamer who already has a working rig it makes more sense to reuse parts you have and get a dedicated GPU and a better CPU for more or less the same cost. The build I list will outgame your A10 in any scenario. Why should he have lower performance with your build?

Quote:
But some one looking for a great cpu and a decent gpu that will play games it suits just fine. Would a person with a huge budget and wanting max fps be better suited to an i5 and a discrete gpu? Yes they would. But this apu can keep up with and at often times beat an i3 3220. I would not call that a cpu that is not for serious gamers.


Actually read my post he can do better for nearly the same price

Quote:
a budget can get you an i5 quad and a great discrete gpu thatis the best choice for max fps. But not every one can afford to shell out $750+ for a build. And for those who can not this cpu works quite well


Again actually READ my post its not a $750 i5 build
October 10, 2012 1:12:14 PM

zolton33 said:
And you recommend a phenom x4 over a 5800k? I suggest you do a little home work on the 5800k. A phenom ii x4 barely competes with:

Core 2 Extreme QX6850, QX6800
Core 2 Quad Q9550, Q9450, Q9400
Core i5-650, -655K, -660, -661, -670, -680
Core i3-2100T, -2120T

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-o...

While the 5800k can compete with and at often times beat a i3 3220 putting it on par with:

Core i7-980, -970, -960
Core i7-870, -875K
Core i3-3225, -3220,-2100, -2105, -2120, -2125, -2130

So you are recommending a cpu that is in the fourth bracket tier of the cpu hierarchy over one that competes with the tier two bracket with intel? Really? Mind boggling.



Now you show your actually not worthy of advising people

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/675?vs=102

look at the benchmarks the Phenom II is a stronger CPU
a b B Homebuilt system
October 10, 2012 1:13:52 PM

wr6133 said:
Not for serious gamers or for budget gamers meaning its not suited for running the latest titles at high settings with solid FPS. Look because its new and shiney doesn't mean you need to recommend everybody looking to build a rig buys it. The APU is for a niche market now for a gamer who already has a working rig it makes more sense to reuse parts you have and get a dedicated GPU and a better CPU for more or less the same cost. The build I list will outgame your A10 in any scenario. Why should he have lower performance with your build?

Quote:
But some one looking for a great cpu and a decent gpu that will play games it suits just fine. Would a person with a huge budget and wanting max fps be better suited to an i5 and a discrete gpu? Yes they would. But this apu can keep up with and at often times beat an i3 3220. I would not call that a cpu that is not for serious gamers.


Actually read my post he can do better for nearly the same price

Quote:
a budget can get you an i5 quad and a great discrete gpu thatis the best choice for max fps. But not every one can afford to shell out $750+ for a build. And for those who can not this cpu works quite well


Again actually READ my post its not a $750 i5 build


Try reading up on some thing before dismissing it. The 5800k with the same discrete card as you put into a phenom will game circles around it. Disable the igp and it will push even further past not that it needs to. I do not recommend it as it is new. I recommend it as all tests be it in gaming or benchmarks prove my point in that it is a great cpu.
October 10, 2012 1:17:21 PM

*Offensive Comments are not permitted on this forum*

So
Phenom II + GTX660

or

a10 -5800k + integrated graphics

The phenom and dedicated card are going to run higher settings and FPS in any game you play thats a simple fact.

Or are you going to read the actual benchmarks i posted and still insist that the A10 with IGP is better than the Phenom II with GTX660?????
a b B Homebuilt system
October 10, 2012 1:20:05 PM

wr6133 said:
Now you show your actually not worthy of advising people

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/675?vs=102

look at the benchmarks the Phenom II is a stronger CPU



/rolls eyes does this not show it is a great cpu?

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a10-5800k-trinity-e...

Look at all the reviews packed withinthat one review. Then look even further into it

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6347/amd-a10-5800k-a8-560...

Then look into putting the a10-5800k with the fastest clock ram you can and watch it fly. In tests the i3 2100 was shredding the phenoms look intoit. And the i3 3220 is the ivy equivalent of the 2100. Then look at the tests they ran as well as other places pitting it against the i3 3220. If it can keep up with and at times beat an i3 3220 that shreds phenoms what would you say is bad about the 5800k?
a b B Homebuilt system
October 10, 2012 1:23:17 PM

wr6133 said:
Are you too stupid to read the actual benchmarks in the link i posted....... the phenom II is a stronger CPU

So
Phenom II + GTX660

or

a10 -5800k + integrated graphics

The phenom and dedicated card are going to run higher settings and FPS in any game you play thats a simple fact.

Or are you going to read the actual benchmarks i posted and still insist that the A10 with IGP is better than the Phenom II with GTX660?????



You do realize that if you pair the 5800k with a discrete gpu the same as with the phenom it will shred it right? Try reading more into tests and reviews then pairing two cpus through a benchmark tool that does not even show a setup to how they got their results.
a b B Homebuilt system
October 10, 2012 1:26:48 PM

wr6133 said:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/675?vs=102

That link is actual benchmarks between the 2

Answer me this

DO you actually think the a10-5800k will perform better in gaming than the Phenom II and a GTX660?



Do you think an a10-5800k paired with the same discrete gpu as the phenom will under perform it? You keep trying to make a point of pairing a phenom with a discrete gpu and leaving the 5800k with only its integrated gpu and comparing them. If you put a discrete gpu to a cpu for comparison you need to do the same to the other cpu other wise you are comparing apples to oranges.
October 10, 2012 1:33:10 PM

zolton33 said:
Do you think an a10-5800k paired with the same discrete gpu as the phenom will under perform it? You keep trying to make a point of pairing a phenom with a discrete gpu and leaving the 5800k with only its integrated gpu and comparing them. If you put a discrete gpu to a cpu for comparison you need to do the same to the other cpu other wise you are comparing apples to oranges.


Learn to read the benches I provided test using a dedicated GPU the Phenom wins granted by a TINY margin but thats still a win. Also your now out of context the options presented to the OP dont include an a10 with a GTX660 so the comaprsion is an a10 with IGP or phenom II with gtx660. The Phenom and 660 clearly will game better
a b B Homebuilt system
October 10, 2012 1:45:40 PM

You seem to miss the part where you are suggesting they buy your cpu plus the mobo plus a discrete gpu to beat out a cost of just the cpu and mobo right?


Phenom price $100
Mobo price $110
Gpu price $230

Grand total? $440

Compared to the price of
A10-5800k $130
Mobo $75

Grand total? $205

For your costs i could recommend an i3 2100 a decent 1155 mobo and a great discrete gpu that would easily dance circlesaround the phenom.

I3 2100 $105
1155 board a decent one at least $100
And that would give me $235 to recommend a decent gpu.

The 5800k is better for price versus performance. Other main differences in the build you recommended and mine? With the fm2 socket you have an upgrade path later on for a newer apu later on. But of course the phenom is the better route? Pahlease
a b B Homebuilt system
October 10, 2012 1:53:49 PM

wr6133 said:
Learn to read the benches I provided test using a dedicated GPU the Phenom wins granted by a TINY margin but thats still a win. Also your now out of context the options presented to the OP dont include an a10 with a GTX660 so the comaprsion is an a10 with IGP or phenom II with gtx660. The Phenom and 660 clearly will game better


I did not recommend a discrete gpu for several reasons. But even if i subtract the build i recommend with the one you did gives me $225 to put into a gpu. But i saw no huge gain right off the bat with putting in anew gpu right away. The 7660 built it may not be top of the line but games well and left money in the op's budget for an ssd. They could always either crossfire later or go with a newer better gpu within their price range later. I do suggest you go read up some more on the 5800k and how well it performs. And i certainly hope you do not go to only one place for all your answers. With any thing it is always best to read reviews from multiple sources not just 1 or 2.
October 10, 2012 1:53:55 PM

zolton33 said:
You seem to miss the part where you are suggesting they buy your cpu plus the mobo plus a discrete gpu to beat out a cost of just the cpu and mobo right? Stop trying to twist the topic the OP has $500 my suggestion will allow him to game at higher settings than yours. You inefficiently spent his money

For your costs i could recommend an i3 2100 a decent 1155 mobo and a great discrete gpu that would easily dance circlesaround the phenom.
Again you show now you dont understand hardware. Mildly overclocked the Phenom will game equally with the i3 outside of gaming the Phenoms cores make it better. Again you cant argue that the a10 is a stronger CPU so you try to alter the subject... also as a sidenote if you say the i3 is a better choice than the phenom then by default you (as its proven the phenom is a stronger cpu than a10) reverse earlier statements saying the a10 was better than an i3

The 5800k is better for price versus performance. Other main differences in the build you recommended and mine? With the fm2 socket you have an upgrade path later on for a newer apu later on. But of course the phenom is the better route? PahleaseShow me a map saying FM2 socket will have further releases? There isn't if its like FM1 it will have this single generation with that a10 being the best that can ever be used on the socket. The AM3+ socket I recommend will have at the least the upcoming new FX series and possibly more so you fail here I provide the better upgrade path

a b B Homebuilt system
October 10, 2012 2:15:12 PM



I love how you point to one let me repeat this again you point at 1 synthetic bench mark comparing 2 cpus and claim you are right? I never twisted your words in any way shape or form. I pointed out the holes in your logic saying that spending $440 for a build to beat a cheaper build of $205 does in no way make sense.

And now you are pulling over clocking into it? So to you it makes more sense to over clock a phenom to compete with a stock cpu that uses less power and does just as well making any sense? Never mind that the costs are far more expensive without the over clock and extra heat considerations?

And to point out the fm2 socket was released with the 5800k line of amds latest chips. With the fm1 they released 3 rounds of chips for it in 2011. So i would not be surprised to see a second round of chips released with the fm2 socket would you? And they did not have a single generation release for the fm1 it was 3 different releases. So if amd follows suit as usual then we can expect at least 1 maybe 2 releases for the fm2 socket.

http://www.cpu-world.com/Releases/Desktop_CPU_releases_(2011).html

July
A6-3650
2.6GHz / 4MB L2 / 4 cores / Socket FM1
A8-3850
2.9GHz / 4MB L2 / 4 cores / Socket FM1

August
A4-3300
2.5GHz / 1MB L2 / 2 cores / Socket FM1
A4-3400
2.7GHz / 1MB L2 / 2 cores / Socket FM1
A6-3500
2.1GHz / 3MB L2 / 3 cores / Socket FM1
A6-3600
2.1GHz / 4MB L2 / 4 cores / Socket FM1
A8-3800
2.4GHz / 4MB L2 / 4 cores / Socket FM1
Athlon II X4 631
2.6GHz / 4MB L2 / 4 cores / Socket FM1

December
A4-3300 (HX)
2.5GHz / 1MB L2 / 2 cores / Socket FM1
A4-3400 (HX)
2.7GHz / 1MB L2 / 2 cores / Socket FM1
A4-3420
2.8GHz / 1MB L2 / 2 cores / Socket FM1
A6-3620
2.2GHz / 4MB L2 / 4 cores / Socket FM1
A6-3670K
2.7GHz / 4MB L2 / 4 cores / Unlocked / Socket FM1
A8-3820
2.5GHz / 4MB L2 / 4 cores / Socket FM1
A8-3870K
3GHz / 4MB L2 / 4 cores / Unlocked / Socket FM1
E2-Series E2-3200 (4th quarter)
2.4GHz / 1MB L2 / 2 cores / Socket FM1
a b B Homebuilt system
October 10, 2012 3:06:27 PM

First off you posted 1 link to 1 site that compared the 2 cpus and compared them and base your whole argument on it.

Car A and car B race. Car A wins by a large margin. Car A races car C and car C barely wins. By your logic you say car B is better then car C? 0_0 really?

http://vr-zone.com/articles/amd-trinity-a10-5800k-vs-in...

A comparison of the i5 3470 vs 5800k a decent read and the 5800k did remarkably well competing often times keeping right up with it. So no i would not call it a bad cpu or bad for gaming. Especially for its price point.
October 10, 2012 3:14:46 PM

What's your thoughts on these 2 SSD drives? The first one is the SAMSUNG MZ-7PD256BW. Its not out yet but I could preorder it and its currently listed at $270
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
256GB
Sustained Sequential Read 540 MB/s
Sustained Sequential Write 520 MB/s
4KB Random Read Up to 100,000 IOPS
4KB Random Write Up to 90,000 IOPS

The other one is the daily deal on tigerdirect and is only $169.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...
240GB
Max Sequential Read
Up to 550 MB/s (SATAIII)
Up to 280 MB/s (SATAII)
Max Sequential Write
Up to 520 MB/s (SATAIII)
Up to 260 MB/s (SATAII)
4KB Random Read
Up to 50,000 IOPS
4KB Random Write
Up to 60,000 IOPS
October 10, 2012 3:20:20 PM

zolton33 said:
First off you posted 1 link to 1 site that compared the 2 cpus and compared them and base your whole argument on it.

Car A and car B race. Car A wins by a large margin. Car A races car C and car C barely wins. By your logic you say car B is better then car C? 0_0 really?

http://vr-zone.com/articles/amd-trinity-a10-5800k-vs-in...

A comparison of the i5 3470 vs 5800k a decent read and the 5800k did remarkably well competing often times keeping right up with it. So no i would not call it a bad cpu or bad for gaming. Especially for its price point.


*Offensive Comments are not permitted on this forum*

I compared Car A (a10) to Car B (Phenom II) ..... Car B won therefore car B is a faster CPU. THere is no Car C/third option it was a straight comaprison showing that by a very slim margin the Phenom II is a faster CPU

Next your linking articles showing how the a10 works with a discrete GPU against another CPU in a game that is GPU bound and the GPU is the limiting factor in the test. OF COURSE THEY HAVE SIMILAR RESULTS GIVEN THOSE FACTS A QUAD CORE ATHLON WOULD HAVE HAD SIMILAR FIGURES.

The OP's choice is a APU with IGP or a CPU with a STRONG dedicated GPU all your links dont show this comparison because its obvious to even a blind monk that has never used a computer that the CPU and dedicated GPU option wins.

If you READ the articles you link they nearly all mention at some point that the APU is not for serious gaming its for light gaming at lower resolutions.

You need to see there are 2 things at issue here

1 - Is the A10 a stronger CPU than the Phenom II...... this requires looking at CPU benchmarks

2 - Is the A10 IGP stronger than a GTX660.... this requires GPU benchmarks

You just hurr and durr over some benches showing its performance in a GPU bound game (and using a deicated GPU not its IGP) and say this shows its better as a CPU and a GPU than the Phenom II and GGTX660 i suggested to the OP

So to summise


STOP trying to change the arguement

The debate is whats better for the OP to game with a new build using the a10 and relying on integrated graphics or a Phenom II and a GTX660

The answer is the Phenom and GTX660 they will give higher settings and higher FPS figures in games.
October 10, 2012 3:24:05 PM

ukman408 said:
What's your thoughts on these 2 SSD drives? The first one is the SAMSUNG MZ-7PD256BW. Its not out yet but I could preorder it and its currently listed at $270
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
256GB
Sustained Sequential Read 540 MB/s
Sustained Sequential Write 520 MB/s
4KB Random Read Up to 100,000 IOPS
4KB Random Write Up to 90,000 IOPS

The other one is the daily deal on tigerdirect and is only $169.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...
240GB
Max Sequential Read
Up to 550 MB/s (SATAIII)
Up to 280 MB/s (SATAII)
Max Sequential Write
Up to 520 MB/s (SATAIII)
Up to 260 MB/s (SATAII)
4KB Random Read
Up to 50,000 IOPS
4KB Random Write
Up to 60,000 IOPS


Neither will likely give those actual figures in real world performance but both will be blisteringly fast. I would say ask yourself though do you need such a large expensive SSD. You can get perfectly good cheaper ones (OCZ make many) that will still be blisteringly fast. All the SSD will do is improve load times performance (frames per second) comes from investing in the GPU then CPU.

Though to answer the question I would take whichever was cheapest on the day of ordering

*Edit for typos*
October 10, 2012 3:38:17 PM

wr6133 said:
Neither will likely give those actual figures in real world performance but both will be blisteringly fast. I would say ask yourself though do you need such a large expensive SSD. You can get perfectly good cheaper ones (OCZ make many) that will still be blisteringly fast. All the SSD will do is improve load times performance (frames per second) comes from investing in the GPU then CPU.

Though to answer the question I would take whichever was cheapest on the day of ordering

*Edit for typos*


Ok then. I asked this earlier but didnt see an answer. Would going with a 120GB drive be sufficient then since those are obviously cheaper than the 256gb drives? What exactly would I install on it? Obviously I couldnt fit all of my games on a 120GB drive and wouldn't want to have to play musical chairs with having to install/uninstall whatever game I wanted to play, especially with the MMO's I play (I rotate between 2-3 MMO's which counting updates are about 20-40GB a piece). Right now I have 2 partitions setup on my main drive. One is using about 50GB of 150 allocated for basically the OS, PC tools and my programming tools like GIMP, 3dstuido, maya, etc.... The 2nd I setup for just my games. I know it most likely comes to a personal choice but would running the OS on the SSD and the games on my 2nd drive (300+gb 7200rpm) be redundant?

BTW I do appreciate the help from both of you. Didnt mean to start an argument between the two of you. I thought I knew PC's somewhat pretty well but I can see I'm a "bit" behind the times
October 10, 2012 3:49:41 PM

ukman408 said:
Ok then. I asked this earlier but didnt see an answer. Would going with a 120GB drive be sufficient then since those are obviously cheaper than the 256gb drives? What exactly would I install on it? Obviously I couldnt fit all of my games on a 120GB drive and wouldn't want to have to play musical chairs with having to install/uninstall whatever game I wanted to play, especially with the MMO's I play (I rotate between 2-3 MMO's which counting updates are about 20-40GB a piece). Right now I have 2 partitions setup on my main drive. One is using about 50GB of 150 allocated for basically the OS, PC tools and my programming tools like GIMP, 3dstuido, maya, etc.... The 2nd I setup for just my games. I know it most likely comes to a personal choice but would running the OS on the SSD and the games on my 2nd drive (300+gb 7200rpm) be redundant?


Whatever goes on the SSD will load faster thats the only benefit no FPS gains, no performance boosts, so its a choice for you if you want to spend X amount an an SSD of X size that can hold all your games and OS or maybe less on a smaller one that will hold OS and main games or maybe just games (I have toyed with the idea myself of removing my OS from my SSD as I dont actually care if windows takes a few extra seconds to load). Only you can really decide there how you want to play it what I see as acceptable loading times or distribution of my games on my drives may not suit you. I would say though upgrade your GPU and CPU before this SSD as load times dont mean alot if your grinding low settings and low FPS.

Short version is only you can decide what size your needs require but really an SSD is the cherry on the cakes icing..... ice your cake 1st it will taste better
a b B Homebuilt system
October 10, 2012 3:57:09 PM

wr6133 said:
It took you that long to come up with this answer and you still have to try and alter the entire arguement because
1 - You were wrong at the start
2 - You are an idiot

Ok to address your next lot of rubbish

I compared Car A (a10) to Car B (Phenom II) ..... Car B won therefore car B is a faster CPU. THere is no Car C/third option it was a straight comaprison showing that by a very slim margin the Phenom II is a faster CPU

Next your linking articles showing how the a10 works with a discrete GPU against another CPU in a game that is GPU bound and the GPU is the limiting factor in the test. OF COURSE THEY HAVE SIMILAR RESULTS GIVEN THOSE FACTS A QUAD CORE ATHLON WOULD HAVE HAD SIMILAR FIGURES.

The OP's choice is a APU with IGP or a CPU with a STRONG dedicated GPU all your links dont show this comparison because its obvious to even a blind monk that has never used a computer that the CPU and dedicated GPU option wins.

If you READ the articles you link they nearly all mention at some point that the APU is not for serious gaming its for light gaming at lower resolutions.

You need to see there are 2 things at issue here

1 - Is the A10 a stronger CPU than the Phenom II...... this requires looking at CPU benchmarks

2 - Is the A10 IGP stronger than a GTX660.... this requires GPU benchmarks

You just hurr and durr over some benches showing its performance in a GPU bound game (and using a deicated GPU not its IGP) and say this shows its better as a CPU and a GPU than the Phenom II and GGTX660 i suggested to the OP

So to summise


STOP trying to change the arguement

The debate is whats better for the OP to game with a new build using the a10 and relying on integrated graphics or a Phenom II and a GTX660

The answer is the Phenom and GTX660 they will give higher settings and higher FPS figures in games.



No some people have lives out side of the forums and do not have all day to sit around and argue with a brick wall that refuses to look up information rather then parroting 1 link they posted that supports their argument. And your childish antics are getting beyond old and tiring. So after this reply feel free to find some one else to kick and scream at please as i won't bother responding to you making personal attacks because you do not get your way.

The car analogy was car A (i3) beating car B (phenom) and car C (5800k). Look at any benchmarks out there and you will see how far behind an i3 a phenom is. Then look at the comparisons of an i3 and a 5800k. The 5800k keeps up with an i3 pretty easily.

I do love how you do trip over your own twisted logic. You keep trying to put a cpu with a newer gpu into a comparison with a cpu with an older gpu integrated into it. If that was the case then you would need to put the phenom up against the apu without a discrete gpu. And the 5800k would beat out all intel cpus by your logic. If you compare two cpus the only fair comparison is to put them against each other with the same components. You do not wish to do this as then you have to admit that you are wrong and that the costs would be much greater for your build with little gain.

Most of them minus the recent one compared the 5800k against intel cpus using lower clocked ram and no discrete gpu. Admittedly they should of compared it to an i3 rather then an i5 as the cost differences are huge. This cpu games well though using a discrete gpu though if you were to get a discrete gpu any way then you would want a better cpu like the i3 which is cheaper. And in either argument the phenom is not an option in price versus performance.

I have not changed my point of argument for the 5800k from post 1 in this topic. Of course if you were to buy a discrete gpu any way from the start an i3 would be a better solution over the 5800k. But if you were just hoping to game right now without the added cost of a discrete gpu then the 5800k does this in spades and cheaper. But if you get this and want to push your gaming further later on you could throw in a discrete gpu and game well or crossfire for even more gains. In either case the i3 and the 5800k would be your best options not a $100 phenom.

*Offensive Comments are not permitted on this forum*

As far as an ssd drive goes i would go with a 120 gig intel to use for the os and programs (about $100 bucks) and use a second regular hdd for storage and such.
October 10, 2012 4:11:43 PM

Quote:
The car analogy was car A (i3) beating car B (phenom) and car C (5800k). Look at any benchmarks out there and you will see how far behind an i3 a phenom is. Then look at the comparisons of an i3 and a 5800k. The 5800k keeps up with an i3 pretty easily.


You actually can't grasp a basic point here.... I showed the 2 CPU's tested as CPU's thats relevent to the builds we recommended. You are posting things that show the APU against an i5 where both have been GPU limited or an APU against an i3 where pure CPU performance is not being tested, graphical performance is. You then use this to say the a10 is a s good as an i3 and better than a Phenom II as a CPU... its not. The ONLY benches posted in this thread comparing performance as a CPU are the ones I posted and as I said the Phenom wins (by a very small margin). This is relevent to the arguement as you advocate the OP uses a APU and it's IGP, I advocate he should use a CPU and a dedicated graphics card. My combination provides a stronger CPU element and a stringer GPU element.

I mean seriously you still evade this basic question that is the only thing that applies to this thread, if you answered this a load of posts ago this whole long winded arguement wouldnt have happened..... as I said you alter the arguement every time

why cant you answer this?

What is better gaming

A10 5800k and IGP

or

Phenom II X4 965BE + GTX660

*Offensive Comments are not permitted on this forum*
October 10, 2012 4:58:49 PM

^ Nicely argued.

But your efforts probably have gone to waste. :) 

As a moderator, I will point out to the original poster that a Phenom II + GTX 660 will be faster than an A10 Trinity.

If I were the OP, I would keep the current setup buy a beefy GTX 660/HD 7870 (or faster, like a HD 7970) and a nice new PSU.

Core 2 Duo isn't bad in this day and age, just a little overclock. :) 

Now continue your discussion. Just with a little more civility please.
a b B Homebuilt system
October 10, 2012 6:11:28 PM

amdfangirl said:
^ Nicely argued.

But your efforts probably have gone to waste. :) 

As a moderator, I will point out to the original poster that a Phenom II + GTX 660 will be faster than an A10 Trinity.

If I were the OP, I would keep the current setup buy a beefy GTX 660/HD 7870 (or faster, like a HD 7970) and a nice new PSU.

Core 2 Duo isn't bad in this day and age, just a little overclock. :) 

Now continue your discussion. Just with a little more civility please.



But would it be faster then an a10 Trinity with a GTX 660? That is my argument. Even without the 7660d integrated graphics this is not a bad quad core cpu. for its price range.
October 10, 2012 6:45:50 PM

I found this. Someone else debating between the A10 and the Phenom.

http://teksyndicate.com/comment/1276574

Someone suggested this build:

CPU (Intel Core i3-3220 Ivy Bridge 3.3GHz LGA 1155 55W Dual-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 2500 )
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

MBO (ASUS P8H61-M LX PLUS R2.0 LGA 1155 Intel H61 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

MEM (G.SKILL Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-1600C9D-8GAB)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

VIDEO (VisionTek 900505 Radeon HD 7850 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Someone on there pointed out that they think the A10 really only shines when you DONT add a vid card. This seems that if I were to want an upgrade down the line on the vid card, it would be better to go with the Phenom or the one I just listed.

I know adding more builds to the fire just makes it more confusing for myself but I'm trying to get as many angles as I can to make sure I get the best available for the money. It took me giving in and letting my wife get a new living room set just to talk her into letting me finally get an upgrade after 5 years.
October 10, 2012 7:04:49 PM

Well AMD fangirl made a valid point that with a bit of overclocking your core2duo does have some legs left.

Between an i3 and a Phenom II............. this is a very heated debate that has occured many times here. At stock speeds the i3 wins gaming by a small amount outside of gaming the Phenom is better in anything that uses its cores. Now to muddy the water you can overclock the Phenom easily at which point it games as well as the i3. If you thought people argued in this thread DO NOT start one called "Phenom 965BE VS i3". All the above applies to the A10 also when using a dedicated GPU and comparing.

A10 with a dedicated GPU would be about the same as a Phenom II with a dedicated GPU the benches I posted show the Phenom has a very slim lead in CPU grunt. The Phenom would put you on an AM3+ socket which could last longer than the A10's FM2. AM3+ at least gives you acces to the nextgen of FX beyond that is unknown.

I posted what I would spend your $500 on and hopefully explained it better here than in the preceeding 9999999 posts of rage.

TLDR version - i3, phenom II or A10 with a dedicated GPU all will actually perform in the same ballpark, each has merits but really no option is so great as to scream GET THIS
a b B Homebuilt system
October 10, 2012 7:07:16 PM

The i3 3220 is the better choice unless you can afford to put an i5 quad into the build you will not get much better then the i3 3220. And the i5 is hands down the best gaming build you can make right now with the best possible performance vs the costs.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... best gaming cpu but costs $229.99

A cheaper i5 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... $189.99

And either of these would work in any ivy 1155 board the same as the i3 3220.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... The i3 2100 not a bad cpu $119.99

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_1155 Just so you know which mobo is compatible with what 1155 chip be it sandy or ivy bridge.

If you can swing it the i5 is the best possible gaming cpu choice but comes at the higher price. And i would suggest the i3 or i5 with a discrete gpu over almost all the amd builds for price vs performance.
October 10, 2012 7:53:38 PM

wr6133 said:
Well AMD fangirl made a valid point that with a bit of overclocking your core2duo does have some legs left.

TLDR version - i3, phenom II or A10 with a dedicated GPU all will actually perform in the same ballpark, each has merits but really no option is so great as to scream GET THIS


Ok so if the Phenom, A10 and i3 are roughly ballpark, then it comes to cost. The A10 is cheaper and if I dual the A10 with a crossfire board and vid card, it would likely see some kickass performance right? But as you mentioned, the Phenom would give me more upgrade options down the line due to the chip connectors?
October 10, 2012 8:11:43 PM

When I say same ballpark I mean if you paired the A10 with a GPU not relied on its IGP. The hybrid crossfire is a bit overhyped if you get a good dedicated GPU it will likely be better than a model that can hybrid corssfire so your APU simply gets used as a CPU.

Upgrade options.... this is a thorny area there's some fact and some speculation

Phenom II using the baord I listed... This is an AM3+ board so will support the soon to be released Piledriver (new FX) it may support the gen after that too.

A10 - There may be more APU's but this is likely the top model, nothing new is confirmed after these trinity series (there will be some athlons which are basically the AP without the IGP) and FM1 only saw 1 series (llano) before being ditched so confidence is not strong

i3 - Socket 1155 will be replaced next May wth the next gen from Intel. That said you could upgrade with an i5 or i7 (the ones around now) and see a significant CPU upgrade, so while the socket wont see any new generations it does have some form of path.

I would take the Phenom in your shoes I run a Phenom rig still and while not my primary gamer it is still a solid worker (and more fun than Intel if you like overclocking and tinkering). It is easy to overclock and the quad is good for things beyond gaming.

i3 second choice but simply as I would be looking to make it an i5!

A10 would be bottom on my list its not a serious gaming proposition unless your $500 had to literally buy everything from scratch rather than be able to use parts from your current rig (and really if that was the case I would tell you to save up longer and get better than this).
October 10, 2012 8:40:40 PM

wr6133 Originally I was just looking at Vid card, memory and drive. I've been enlightened though that while those might help, its not the best approach to get a better performing PC. Memory upgrade is a must for me obviously and probably 90% of the people I've talked to here, at work and throughout other forums have said to go Board/CPU, then mem/video and drive last.

I'm gonna have to look more into each of your suggestions and of course I'm fully open to get more since Im not in a big rush on this. I do see where I need to spend the larger chunk of my budget and just need to decide which one to go with. I'd love to go i5 based on everything I read, but I fear it might limit what I can do with the rest of the machine. We'll hopefully with some more reading/research and help I can come to a decision soon to get the parts ordered.
a b B Homebuilt system
October 10, 2012 9:41:35 PM

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/jX46 $313.97

A pretty basic board no bells and whistles the best cpu and 2 4gb sticks of ram. You could boost your budget up from this a bit to get a better board. If you go with this and use your old gpu until you can get the funds to up the gpu you should be ok.

If you get these the next move i would do is to get a better psu then video card then any other upgrades you need. You already have a gaming case and 600w power supply that should do you over until you get the psu to a better one and a newer gpu. I would think this would be the best to do. But if you can get a better mobo i would. But just changing these 3 out right now in your build you will see some huge gains.
October 11, 2012 12:51:53 AM

Ok I begged and pleaded with the wife and got her to up my budget a bit. Here's a preliminary build. The only thing that's locked in is the SSD because it's been ordered. The only thing I'm not sure of is what CPU cooler to get. I wanted to make sure it was compatible. This one was mentioned above but I dont see it on the pcpartpicker site. The one thing my wife asked though, was if there was a similar but maybe cheaper card to the gtx660 Thoughts?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/jYap
October 11, 2012 2:13:45 AM

^ Basically a Coolermaster Hyper212+ is compatible with basically all modern processors.

To be honest, I would buy the GTX 660, see how that works out for your games before upgrading further. It might just be enough for you. If it say makes your Core 2 Duo last 2 years longer, we'll have 2 more new generations of CPUs for you to pick from (faster). You can always buy a new CPU/motherboard at any time. GPUs will fit into any modern motherboard. Perhaps you can save up for a Core i5 or the like.
October 11, 2012 7:36:22 AM

I have the 120GB version of that SSD

Here's a cooler
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Its cheap, cheerful and very effective

AMDfangirl is making a good point you may please the wife and spend less by first buying the Graphics card and CPU cooler putting them with your current platform, overclocking and seeing how that works out.

However I'm a married man and I also understand that sometimes if you get your wife to agree to a big spend now its good to spend it before she changes her mind!

I wouldn't spend less on the Graphics card gaming is largely reliant on the Graphics card so for each step up or down you take on that you see a real world change in your frame rates and quality settings. I think the way to justify it to her is that spending this now on the Graphics card means it's likely to last alot longer than if you bought a cheap card so the 660 now is cheaper in the long run than a 650ti now followed by a 660 or maybe a 750ti (or whatever the next gen is) next year. A good example would be the 2 setups in my signature the 670 runs anything maxed out it will do that for a while to come and cost £300 the 550ti (2 of them in SLi... long story) can't run things anywhere near as well as the 670 will definitley be replaced as soon as my wife gets mad at the awful performance (she games on that rig now) and had they cost me retail prices would have totaled near £200..... their replacement will be another £200 likely so their total will end up about £400 and still get outperformed by my 670.

*EDIT* for just woke up typos
October 11, 2012 1:25:53 PM

Well I figured it was at least worth a shot :)  I'd love to go with an i5 but it looks like I'd have to spend at least a hundred more than I currently have planned to get even the cheapest i5. Pricing both the A-10 + Board and the Phenom + board, both are about $200. The Phenom is actually a few bucks cheaper.
!