Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Carryover from Graphics Card...is this build worthwhile?

Last response: in Systems
Share
October 13, 2012 11:47:37 PM

Hi all, I have a running thread going in Graphics as i sorely need to upgrade my graphics card. As it turns out my processor is oldish, and to make a worthwhile replacement i need a new motherboard and PSU....SOOOOO...someone recommended this to me

"this is what a *super cheap* build will get you:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Pentium G850 2.9GHz Dual-Core Processor ($64.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Biostar H61MLC Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($54.91 @ Compuvest)
Memory: G.Skill NS 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7850 1GB Video Card ($169.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 500W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Total (before mail-in rebates): $374.87
Mail-in Rebates: $-30.00
Total: $344.87 "

But said i should come talk to you guys b/c of your vastly superior knowledge.

PLEASE take a look at my other thread for more details and feel free to offer any suggestions, advice, ridicule etc.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/373764-33-games-setti...
October 13, 2012 11:54:41 PM

Would you mind posting a budget?

Just at a glance, this build will be quite limited by the CPU/motherboard combination. Your graphics card, while decent, may not be fully utilized.
October 13, 2012 11:59:53 PM

Regarding the budget...if i'm around $400 and will suffice for another 3 years of gaming, then i'll be happy.

If its more than that, I would likely opt to simply upgrade my PSU and graphics card at the moment and then upgrade in 2 years or so. I'm really sort of stuck in the middle
Related resources
October 14, 2012 12:07:09 AM

mastermoirich said:
Regarding the budget...if i'm around $400 and will suffice for another 3 years of gaming, then i'll be happy.

If its more than that, I would likely opt to simply upgrade my PSU and graphics card at the moment and then upgrade in 2 years or so. I'm really sort of stuck in the middle


Your graphics card is quite decent, my concern is that the rest of your build is pretty out-dated and will not perform well. I'd recommend you consider this before you decide whether to upgrade or not.

At around double your current budget, a very nice gaming build could be built and it would last you for 3 years without having to upgrade in-between.

It's your choice, however.
October 14, 2012 12:27:29 AM

Quote:
upgrade ram to 8 gigs and give the processor a nice little nudge, while switching the mobo to a similarly priced h77 and youll have a very solid little gaming rig for 400. What games are you trying to play and what resolution is your monitor?

EDIT: Post a link to your pcpartpicker and i will edit in what im talking about and post it here


Given that his current build is about $350, I seriously doubt you'd be able to do all of that for $400. You're probably looking closer to $500.

And if he said he's going to upgrade in 2 years, why not spend some extra money and upgrade the entire build?
October 14, 2012 12:52:32 AM

Quote:
PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kfaT
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kfaT/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kfaT/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i3-2100 3.1GHz Dual-Core Processor ($109.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: ASRock H61M-DGS Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($44.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: GeIL Pristine 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($32.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7850 1GB Video Card ($169.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 500W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $392.95

A very solid little machine (3d mark score 25% higher for ~50 bucks, not bad at all :D  )

On an aside, how is MechWarriorOnline? Huge fan of mw2 back in the day, but the delays are killin me and im not tryin to pay to play for minimal content right now.



Just under 4 hundo ;D


Ah, well done. Albeit, its questionable what good this build achieves. I still suggest the OP invest a little more money so that he can get a machine that will last longer.

Another $200-300 gives much more room to add better a better CPU, Motherboard, RAM, and a better GPU.

Also, to the OP, what about other build components? Storage, case, peripherals, OS, etc? Are these needed?
a b U Graphics card
a b V Motherboard
October 14, 2012 12:57:01 AM

Want to take a look of my suggestion build?

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kfgg
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kfgg/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kfgg/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i3-2120 3.3GHz Dual-Core Processor ($109.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: MSI H61M-P31 (G3) Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($46.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Blu 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7850 2GB Video Card ($189.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Cooler Master eXtreme Power Plus 500W ATX12V Power Supply ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $406.95
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
October 14, 2012 12:57:39 AM

1st off, i really appreciate all the replies...as i'm sure you noticed, i'm so lost.

MWO is ok...i just into the beta last week or so. Not buying any ridiculously priced founders packs. And i'm pretty sure my current computer is making things difficult even on the lowest of the low.

Hopefully this doesn't come off as rude, but did you read my original post i linked from Graphics? I thought i had 8 GBs of DDR3 already. Also, some other nice gentlefolk were recommending a 7870 (i realize it costs a little more than the 7850)
October 14, 2012 1:02:17 AM

And this question is going to put the icing on the noobcake...but 1GB or 2GB fro vid cards...does it make much of a difference?

And so its clear. I'm really trying to decide between just getting a new PSU and a graphics card and buying a whole new system in 2 yrs.

OR spending $400 (which is only about $200 more than new psu and graphics card) and do the continual upgrade of pieces of life goes along until i need to just buy a whole damn new comp.

EDIT: Oh and is windows registered to my cpu or my harddrive? if i get a new cpu do i have to buy windows again?

EDIT2: As far as a case and other peripherals, i think i am ok to cannibalize my current machine to make things work.
October 14, 2012 1:04:49 AM

Quote:
Because of the i3 and the 8gigs of ram he wont bottleneck the 7850 which will really improve his overall gaming performance, aside from the benefits of having an i3 over a pentium and 8 gigs of ram over 4. And it fits within his budget.

This system will play most games MAX.


While the CPU and RAM are a lot better, this build will not play newer games at maximum settings. Since the OP wants to keep it functioning for 2-3 years, this problem will only be exacerbated as time passes.

I agree that it's a solid build for $400 and you probably can't get any better - but this build will suffer from a really poor lifespan in terms of its gaming performance.
October 14, 2012 1:14:18 AM

mastermoirich said:
And this question is going to put the icing on the noobcake...but 1GB or 2GB fro vid cards...does it make much of a difference?

And so its clear. I'm really trying to decide between just getting a new PSU and a graphics card and buying a whole new system in 2 yrs.

OR spending $400 (which is only about $200 more than new psu and graphics card) and do the continual upgrade of pieces of life goes along until i need to just buy a whole damn new comp.

EDIT: Oh and is windows registered to my cpu or my harddrive? if i get a new cpu do i have to buy windows again?

EDIT2: As far as a case and other peripherals, i think i am ok to cannibalize my current machine to make things work.


I think it makes much more sense to go with a new build and spend more money there, as opposed to continually upgrading anytime something new comes out.

If you have a larger budget, you're able to make investments that will last longer and thus save you from having to upgrade continually. A good $800 build will last you 3-4 years, and even then, you can consider upgrading your GPU or adding another one, to get some more life out of your system.

In regards to your question about your OS, this depends on how you got it originally. If I'm correct, you old system was a pre-built system that came installed with the OS. If they were kind enough to send you the OS disk, then you may be able to repair your installation in the new system (I'll elaborate about this below). However, if you don't have the OS disk, then you will need to purchase a new OS.

Okay, you may be wondering why you need an OS disk. When you upgrade your hardware, especially your motherboard/CPU/GPU and try to boot with a disk that has an OS, the disk will be confused as it recognizes all of this new hardware, but doesn't have the drivers for it. If you have the OS disk, you may be able to boot from your OS disk and repair the installation (i.e. get the necessary drivers) so that your system will boot off the original disk. Otherwise, your OS disk will allow you to do a fresh install of Windows on your new system. Either way, you will be able to re-use your OS if you have the installation disk (and product key, for that matter).

Given that it was a pre-built system, most likely all they gave you was a repair disk. This will not be of any use if your HDD cannot adapt to the new hardware (even after trying a repair installation). You'll need to purchase a new OS and do a clean install.

Hope that answers your questions!

October 14, 2012 1:17:40 AM

Quote:
my htpc with an i3 3220, 8gb of ram, and oced 7770 plays all but the most demanding of titles MAXed (civ5, dishonored, cs go, torchlight2, sniper elite 2, tf2, mw3, skyrim ALL MAXED) at 1080

Battlefield 3 and Metro 2033 of course will be a different story, but you can keep things pretty high by simply turning down or removing AA.


Apart from Skyrim, none of the games you listed are really considered to be new. Try running Batman AA, or Batman AC, The Witcher, BF3, Metro 2033 on that - won't be too pretty.

Yes, you could always play on lower resolutions, but then why shell out money for continual upgrades if all you are going to end up doing is turning down the resolution/settings. I suppose its a matter of preference.

It takes me back to my point, I would rather spend extra money and get a build that will last for around 3 years without having to upgrade anything, and then think about upgrading then. Having to upgrade every year is a hassle, and I'd much rather avoid it.
October 14, 2012 1:18:38 AM

I don't usually jump at the brand new games unless they really catch me. I bought SC2 right away, and hated it lol.

OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium
System RAM: 8191 MB
CPU Name: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q8300 @ 2.50GHz
CPU Speeds: 2499
Physical CPUs: 1
Virtual CPUs: 4
Video Card Description: NVIDIA GeForce G210
VRAM: 512 MB
Primary Display Resolution: 1920x1080
Multi-Monitor Desktop Resolution: 1920x1080
Microphone: False
Language: English (United States)
Free Hard Drive Space: 425847 MB
Total Hard Drive Space: 702212 MB
Windows Experience Index Rating: 4.7

or this info from belarc advisor

Operating System new – server roles System Model
Windows 7 Home Premium (x64) Service Pack 1 (build 7601)
Install Language: English (United States)
System Locale: English (Canada)
Installed: 25/12/2009 10:43:22 AM HP-Pavilion AU915AA-ABL p6242f
System Serial Number: MXX940008X
Asset Tag: Asset-1234
Enclosure Type: Desktop
Processor a Main Circuit Board b
2.50 gigahertz Intel Core2 Quad
64 kilobyte primary memory cache
2048 kilobyte secondary memory cache
64-bit ready
Multi-core (4 total)
Not hyper-threaded Board: PEGATRON CORPORATION Eureka3 1.02
Serial Number: 101364380002498
Bus Clock: 1333 megahertz
BIOS: American Megatrends Inc. 5.10 09/07/2009
new USB Storage Use in past 30 Days (mouse over last used for details) new Hosted Virtual Machines (mouse over name for details)
Last Used
Generic- Compact Flash -- drive 3, s/n 058F63626476, rev 1.01 11/10/2012 3:22:36 AM
Generic- MS/MS-Pro -- drive 5, s/n 058F63626476, rev 1.03 11/10/2012 3:22:36 AM
Generic- SD/MMC -- drive 2, s/n 058F63626476, rev 1.00 11/10/2012 3:22:36 AM
Generic- SM/xD-Picture -- drive 4, s/n 058F63626476, rev 1.02 11/10/2012 3:22:36 AM
KODAK SD/MMC card -- drive 1, rev 1.00 11/10/2012 3:22:35 AM None discovered
Drives new – drive encryption Memory Modules c,d
750.05 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
448.98 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space

TSSTcorp CDDVDW TS-H653R ATA Device [Optical drive]

Generic- Compact Flash USB Device [Hard drive] -- drive 3
Generic- MS/MS-Pro USB Device [Hard drive] -- drive 5
Generic- SD/MMC USB Device [Hard drive] -- drive 2
Generic- SM/xD-Picture USB Device [Hard drive] -- drive 4
KODAK SD/MMC card USB Device [Hard drive] -- drive 1
ST3750528AS [Hard drive] (750.16 GB) -- drive 0, s/n 9VP1ZBQF, rev HP34, SMART Status: Healthy 8192 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory

Slot 'DIMM0' has 2048 MB
Slot 'DIMM1' has 2048 MB
Slot 'DIMM2' has 2048 MB
Slot 'DIMM3' has 2048 MB
Local Drive Volumes new – volume encryption

c: (NTFS on drive 0) * 736.32 GB 446.52 GB free
d: (NTFS on drive 0) 13.73 GB 2.46 GB free

* Operating System is installed on c:
Network Drives
None discovered
Users (mouse over user name for details) Printers
local user accounts last logon
Chloe 16/08/2012 8:34:16 AM
Rob and Amanda 11/10/2012 4:56:37 PM (admin)
UpdatusUser 11/10/2012 3:25:20 AM
local system accounts
Administrator 30/09/2009 10:52:04 AM (admin)
Guest never
HomeGroupUser$ never

Marks a disabled account; Marks a locked account

KODAK ESP 3200 Series AiO on USB001
Microsoft Shared Fax Driver on SHRFAX:
Microsoft XPS Document Writer on XPSPort:
Controllers Display
ATA Channel 0 [Controller]
ATA Channel 1 [Controller]
Intel(R) ICH10 Family 4 port Serial ATA Storage Controller 1 - 3A20 NVIDIA GeForce G210 [Display adapter]
LG W2361 [Monitor] (23.1"vis, s/n 404508, March 2009)
Bus Adapters Multimedia
Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Enhanced Host Controller - 3A3A
Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Enhanced Host Controller - 3A3C
Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 3A34
Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 3A35
Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 3A36
Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 3A37
Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 3A38
Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 3A39 NVIDIA High Definition Audio (4x)
Realtek High Definition Audio
October 14, 2012 1:38:02 AM

my PSU is ***. bestec 300w output...so i found a corsair 500w for like $35.

other people did suggest the 7770 to me...but others then said i would be better off going to the 7850 or 7870
October 14, 2012 1:45:11 AM

and when u say Bottlenecked....does that just mean my vid card is ready to run, but my cpu is out for a stroll?

October 14, 2012 1:47:50 AM

mastermoirich said:
and when u say Bottlenecked....does that just mean my vid card is ready to run, but my cpu is out for a stroll?


It means that your CPU will reach its limit in terms of its processing ability before your GPU reaches its own.

EDIT: So in your terms, it means that your CPU can only go for a stroll while your GPU, which is ready for a run, is slowed down to stroll along with the CPU
October 14, 2012 1:53:50 AM

Ok great...couple more questions and i will let you nice folks get back to your lives.

1) Does the brand matteR? i see powercolor, sapphire, HIS, gigabyte, visiontek etc...all different prices. Why are there different brands when the card is an AMD or an NVIDIA etc. (see how i snuck two questions into one)

2) am i correct in saying 7770 and the linked psu is worthwhile over just the 7750

3) what about used cards? worth it since i'm not getting an extremely new/powerful card? or not b/c its less powerful and therefore not that expensive anyway.
October 14, 2012 1:58:04 AM

In terms of a build now, you really have two good choices:
IMHO, the best *overall* build right now on $400 would be something like this:
PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kfxG
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kfxG/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kfxG/benchmarks/

CPU: AMD A10-5800K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor ($124.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($27.98 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: MSI FM2-A55M-E33 Micro ATX FM2 Motherboard ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Patriot Viper 3 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($45.55 @ NCIX US)
Storage: OCZ Agility 4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($74.48 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 500W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $357.98 (after rebate)
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

That would IMHO give you better day-to-day performance than the build you have listed (A10 better at multitasking/threaded tasks + SSD speed boost), but less gaming framerate than the ones people above have listed.

Or, if you are willing to upgrade later, something like this build, would give you the ability to later swap in an I5-3570k + aftermarket cooler and overclock, without needing to change any other parts (so best for upgrading)
PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kfzZ
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kfzZ/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/kfzZ/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Pentium G860 3.0GHz Dual-Core Processor ($72.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Biostar TZ77B ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($87.55 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($38.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: XFX Radeon HD 7850 1GB Video Card ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 500W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $394.51
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

RE: Bottlenecking - Something has to be the slowest part of your computer, holding you back from getting better framerates. I general, for a computer for most people that should be the graphics card, since you use the processor for *everything* but the graphics card only for gaming. When they say the CPU bottlenecks you, people mean that you could get significantly better framerates in almost all games with a better CPU/same graphics card.


October 14, 2012 2:01:33 AM

mastermoirich said:
Ok great...couple more questions and i will let you nice folks get back to your lives.

1) Does the brand matteR? i see powercolor, sapphire, HIS, gigabyte, visiontek etc...all different prices. Why are there different brands when the card is an AMD or an NVIDIA etc. (see how i snuck two questions into one)

2) am i correct in saying 7770 and the linked psu is worthwhile over just the 7750

3) what about used cards? worth it since i'm not getting an extremely new/powerful card? or not b/c its less powerful and therefore not that expensive anyway.


1) The names that you are seeing are all board partners of nVidia and AMD. To be clear, it is still the nVidia/AMD GPU that you are getting - but these board partners make some modifications in terms of the cooling, power delivery, clock speeds, and RAM capacity compared to the stock versions that are released by AMD and nVidia.

It does make quite a big difference, certain lines from certain partners will typically perform better and be of more value for the price you are paying. Therefore, it isn't fair to just say Gigabyte makes good cards. While they typically do, it depends on the specific card, and the specific model of the card.

2) Since you are going to be upgrading soon (I'd still recommend you scrap any thoughts about what you're doing ATM and just build a new system already) I'd suggest you go for the cheapest price you can find. If you think you can get the card used and save money (provided that it isn't completely beaten-up or defective) then I'd say go for it. Same with the PSU unless you plan to use that in your new build.
October 14, 2012 2:09:55 AM

Hey, I didn't see your system post before. Seeing that you already have a Core 2 Quad, and 8GB ram, I agree with the guy who says upgrade what you have. A new power supply, new graphics card, and an SSD will be well under $400. Maybe a Hyper 212 Evo and an overclock if the motherboard you have supports it. I actually think a Core 2 Quad + 7850 are reasonably well matched. The CPU will bottleneck you a *little* bit, but not a lot.

Note the comparisons between what you have, and what you are considering
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/289?vs=52
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/404?vs=52
In everything but gaming, pretty similar to I3/Pentium. In Gaming I3/Pentium are up to 20% better, which is big, but probably not worth it unless you plan to reuse some of the parts (like the motherboard) later.
October 14, 2012 2:12:50 AM

I completely know what you are saying about a new system. I would buy a whole new system if i could, but i went back to college as a mature student and still have a year left, so telling the wife i want to spend $600+ on a comp so my games will be prettier right now just will not fly. So while it might technically be a waste of money in the long run, its a means to an end...(the means being just getting me through until "the end" where i can buy a new one)

It might be easier to ask, if there any board partner you WOULD NOT buy from?
October 14, 2012 2:20:53 AM

jacobsta811 said:
Hey, I didn't see your system post before. Seeing that you already have a Core 2 Quad, and 8GB ram, I agree with the guy who says upgrade what you have. A new power supply, new graphics card, and an SSD will be well under $400. Maybe a Hyper 212 Evo and an overclock if the motherboard you have supports it. I actually think a Core 2 Quad + 7850 are reasonably well matched. The CPU will bottleneck you a *little* bit, but not a lot.

Note the comparisons between what you have, and what you are considering
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/289?vs=52
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/404?vs=52
In everything but gaming, pretty similar to I3/Pentium. In Gaming I3/Pentium are up to 20% better, which is big, but probably not worth it unless you plan to reuse some of the parts (like the motherboard) later.


No idea what a Hyper 212 Evo is, and i saw in some other post that pre-builts (like mine from HP) are BIOS locked and therefore cannot be overclocked.
October 14, 2012 2:22:55 AM

mastermoirich said:
I completely know what you are saying about a new system. I would buy a whole new system if i could, but i went back to college as a mature student and still have a year left, so telling the wife i want to spend $600+ on a comp so my games will be prettier right now just will not fly. So while it might technically be a waste of money in the long run, its a means to an end...(the means being just getting me through until "the end" where i can buy a new one)

It might be easier to ask, if there any board partner you WOULD NOT buy from?


Haha, I feel you. Anyway, we're here to help irrespective of the decision you make :D 

With regards to the board partners, I'll answer it this way:

I'd usually trust boards from Asus, Gigabyte, Sapphire, MSI, and Galaxy. These partners have good reputations and usually don't muck things up too much. Again, it's always best to read reviews for the specific card, and line that you are looking into. That way, any random missteps by these partners won't catch you off guard.

Cheers!
October 14, 2012 2:25:49 AM

Well holy ***..i just looked at those comparisons...and the intel " i"makes the other look like crap.
October 14, 2012 2:27:21 AM

mastermoirich said:
No idea what a Hyper 212 Evo is, and i saw in some other post that pre-builts (like mine from HP) are BIOS locked and therefore cannot be overclocked.


Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo is a aftermarket CPU heatsink cooler - completely useless if you cannot overclock as your stock fan will be fine.

If you are upgrading, stick with your plan and do it dirt cheap for a video card and a PSU. You can spend a little extra money on the PSU as it will likely carry-over to your new build.

No point in upgrading anything else, as in 2 years there will be newer products that will be better than the upgrades you are making now.
!