Need Advice for Programming/Gaming Rig

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Doggman9

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Approximate Purchase Date: Between now and Christmas
Budget Range: Trying to stay under $1500
System Usage from Most to Least Important: Programming, Gaming, Surfing Internet, Watching Movies, Music
Parts Not Required: Mouse
Preferred Website(s) for Parts: newegg
Country: US
Parts Preferences: Intel, EVGA, ASUS, Asrock, SeaSonic, Corsair
Overclocking: Yes
SLI or Crossfire: Not right now
Monitor Resolution: 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 -- I might try and get two monitors.

This is what I have right now:
CPU: i5 3570k + Hyper 212 Evo
Mobo: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (comes with 2x4GB RAM for free right now)
GPU: nVidia GTX 660 Ti 2GB
Case: Corsair Obsidian 550D
PSU: SeaSonic M12II 620w
RAM: Corsair 2x4GB Vengeance Low Profile 1600 (16GB total RAM)
Storage: Crucial M4 256GB SSD
Keyboard: Microsoft Sidewinder X4
Screen: ASUS PB238Q 23" IPS Display (1920x1080) -- this screen is pretty pricey but I think it will be nice for programming and gaming. It's $230 off newegg right now but I think it would be worth it for the nice IPS display and the really nice adjustable stand that it comes with. I know its more for graphical design work but I think it could be a nice programming screen as well. I think I want to get two screens eventually (again for programming). Would two 23" screens side by side be a bit much or badass? I was originally thinking about getting 2x21.5" IPS panels from the start that were cheaper than this 23" screen but now I'm thinking get this one first and if I need more space then get a second one of these. Whats the difference in pixel density/clarity between a 21.5" (1920x1080) and a 23" (1920x1080)? Is it noticeable? Also I'm kinda considering the ASUS PA248Q (1920x1200) but it's even more pricey at $310... What would everyone recommend?

Any other opinions on the build are welcome. Total price for all that is just under $1500.
 
Solution
You pretty much nailed it, only some small changes.

OCZ Vertex 4 over the Crucial M4. They are about the same price and the Vertex is faster.
If you are going to add more RAM, make its the same as the kit that comes free with the Extreme4. Mixing different RAM kits is not a good idea. Generally a gaming rig (programming isnt that intensive) only requires 8GB though.
Makes sure that 660Ti is from a good brand like ASUS or Gigabyte. For the time being MSI 660Ti's and 670's have a manufacturing fault in them, so avoid those. Not EVGA either, reference design cooling runs louder and hotter.

You are correct in that IPS panels are more for design work where the vibrant colours are better appreciated, but ultimately you can do whatever with your build.
Two screens helps a lot with productivity, its a good idea. It is pretty badass as well, most people when they see you have more than one screen are impressed (coming from someone with three).
Usually pixel density is only a concern when you have 27" 1920x1080 screens, dont think there would be much difference between a 21.5 and 23" screen. You are paying for an IPS screen, great clarity is guaranteed.

EDIT: Was debating whether to include this, but since Someone Somewhere brought it up I guess I should.
The HD7950 is a pretty good alternative to the 660Ti. Both are ~equal in terms of performance, with the 7950 being a bit faster overall. But the 660Ti is faster in some popular games like BF3. So which one is better will come down to the games you play.
However, if you want the possibility of triple screen gaming later on, the HD7950 is a much better option.
Also if your programming or any applications can take advantage of OpenCL and GPGPU, the 7950 also offers superior performance there as well.
 

Doggman9

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The Samsung 830 256GB is only $170 so I think I'll get that one. Thanks for the tip. I was originally only gonna get 8GB of RAM but newegg is gonna give me 8GB free with my mobo. After reading the below post that says mixing RAM types is bad, I probably won't use the patriot RAM that comes free with the mobo. I like the corsair RAM more and it's only $40. The free RAM deal will probably be over before I end up ordering this anyways.

I'll have to look into the 7950. Which brand 7950 would you recommend?



That's what I wanted to hear as far as the screen goes. I think I'll plan on the ASUS 23" IPS for now and get another one down the road. That'll be sweet :D

What's your opinion of the Samsung 830 series SSD?

Like I said earlier, I'll have to take a look at the 7950. Which brand would you recommend for it?


Also to everyone, what about the 7870? Could I save some money here and still be good to go? Games I play are SC2, Diablo 3, WoW, League of Legends, Borderlands 2, and F1 2012. I generally leave the FPS's for xbox 360 and play RPG's and RTS's on the computer. How does the 7870 compare to the 660 Ti?

Thanks for the replies and help.
 
Samsung 830 is also a good SSD. Either it or the Vertex4 will be good.

Sapphire, Gigabyte, ASUS or MSI (their Radeon cards are all good).

The 7870 matches the 660Ti in some aspects, but is generally behind.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/548?vs=647

But that said, if you are going to be mainly playing RTS/RPG games on the PC, the performance loss wouldn't really be noticed. The 7870 is still a good card anyway, I'm happy with the performance mine is giving (and overclocks like a beast as well).
 

Doggman9

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Yeah I don't really think I need a huge GPU to be honest. I'm still leaning towards the GTX 660 Ti because I play mostly Blizzard games and I heard Blizzard games favor nVidia over AMD and I like EVGA's design (I know looks don't really matter but EVGA makes some pretty sweet lookin cards IMO) plus the precision X software should make it pretty simple for me to overclock which I will be doing for the first time.

What about the EVGA GTX 660 Ti FTW and SC versions?
http://www.evga.com/Products/ProductList.aspx?type=0&family=GeForce+600+Series+Family&chipset=GTX+660+Ti
The signature 2 FTW is only $290 on the cart and the SuperClock version is $290 too. Would those be better than the 7950? Also, if I plan to overclock the GPU myself is it pointless to buy it already overclocked from EVGA or can I overclock them even more myself?

Which cooling design would be better for my Corsair 550D case? The regular EVGA setup or the Signature 2?



I wanna stay all SSD. I went SSD with my laptop last year and I'll never go back. 256GB will be more than enough for me for awhile and if its not I can always just add more storage at anytime.
 

Nw333

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^This isnt a place for advertising. :/

Anyways, you will run out of storage quite fast if you download/store a lot of data.
I wouldnt get EVGA cards. They have reference cooling. Better get one from Gigabyte or Asus.
 
^ Gotta hate these Spam bots.

Of those cards, I would say this one.
http://www.evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=02G-P4-3664-KR
Only due to the slightly non-reference cooling design. Other manufacturers like Gigabyte and ASUS make custom design cooling that works better.

Also any overclocking software will work on any card. I use MSI Afterburner (recommend using this) on my Sapphire card.

With the SSD+HDD solution. You put the OS and any important programs/games on the SSD, with unimportant stuff like files (movies, music, downloads) and leftover programs/games on the HDD. That way you get the speed of an SSD where its needed and the capacity of a HDD.
 

Doggman9

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I don't download or store a lot of data. I'll be good with the 256GB SSD for awhile. What about that Signature 2 GTX 660 Ti FTW? Its not a reference cooling design. I'm trying to find some benchmarks on it to see if it's any better than the reference designs though.



I understand the whole SSD+HDD combo thing but I'd rather just have all SSD storage. I don't use that much storage space at all so 256GB will be more than enough for quite some time.

I like the sound of that Signature 2 FTW version from EVGA. I was looking at it when you posted back haha. I'm trying to find some benchmarks and comparisons to see how much better it is over the stock 660 Ti.

Do you think a dual fan design like the sig 2 would be better in the 550D or the reference design that sends all the hot air out of the back of the case? The 550D is geared towards being silent so I think it loses a little bit of cooling performance unless you add more fans to it.
 
The dual fan design is barely different from reference, all the air is exhausted from the back of the case anyway.

Silent doesn't mean low airflow. Just a proper choice of of fans and a heavy case. If you want to add more, Corsair Quite Edition fans are quite good (especially for heatsinks). For 200mm fans, then Coolermaster Megaflows are the ones to get.
 

Doggman9

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Okay sounds good. I'll stick with the 550D and for now I think I like the EVGA GTX 660 Ti FTW Signature 2. I think it'll be enough for me and I might try and get Borderlands 2 for free (already have it for xbox but whatever will be fun to play on my new PC too :D).

What about my screen choice? Any opinion on that?
Right now I'm considering three different options:
1) One ASUS PB238Q 23" (1920x1080) IPS Display ($230)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6824236292
2) Two ASUS VS229-H 21.5" (1920x1080) e-IPS Display ($300 @ $150 each)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 5%22%20ips
3) One ASUS PA248Q 24" (1920x1200) IPS Display ($310)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] s%20pa248q
 

dyc4ha

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I dont think anyone has mentioned this yet, but if you are going dual monitors, it would be very beneficial to have MORE vram especially for gaming. Having said that, I would go for a 7950 over a 660Ti if you decide on 2x monitors.

BTW, I think the 660Ti cards you are considering are a bit too closely priced to the 7950 to justify it. Regardless of the number of monitors you choose, and with MSI afterburner (I wholeheartedly recommend it too; overclocking is a breeze), you will get more performance and be better future-proofed by virtue of having a whole extra 1GB of vram.

My 2c on SSDs: I have had bad experiences with OCZ vertex 3. Bought 3, 2 ended up being RMA'd. I prioritize speed the least, and reliability the highest. To be very honest I do not think the difference in speed (not that I can notice any too) can ever make up for a peace of mind. Samsung 830 SSDs are probably your best bet out there, there are very reputable for being extremely reliable (free of SF2xxx problems) and very darn fast. I also personally use the Crucial M4 which replaced the 2 vertex3 and I have 0 problems with it (did have to flash a firmware ONCE though to fix a bug which i never experienced, but good to know crucial is on top of things). Although listed as slower, I did not see any tangible difference.
 

Doggman9

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Thanks for the tips on the SSD's. I think I will go with the Samsung because I too think reliability is greater than the potential miniscule speed difference I might get from going with a faster brand.

Soo many people are suggesting the 7950... I like nvidia alot more than AMD for no particular reason at all but I still do regardless and I my favorite GPU brand is EVGA and they only make nvidia's (again no particular reason that I like them more other than I just do.. ha) If I decided to get a 7950 I think I like XFX's Double D design the best. How does that one sound? What about the Black Edition? Can I overclock a stock one to be the same as the Black Edition or does XFX add more to it than just simply overclocking it before they send it to you?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&N=-1&isNodeId=1&Description=xfx+hd+7950+double+d&x=0&y=0

Is there a difference between the $330 one and the $305 out of stock one? I couldn't find a difference so I guess I would shoot for the $305 one coming back in stock...

What about this one from MSI?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127651&name=Desktop-Graphics-Cards
That one atleast looks cool unlike all the other AMD cards... haha I know looks doesn't matter but still...

Which 7950 would you recommend?




I was originally looking at the Razer BlackWidow mechanical keyboard but when I researched mechanical keyboards a bit I realized that it might not be what I want. I am a huge fan of laptop chiclet keyboards which I think mechanical keyboards are quite the opposite. I like very low resistance when I press the key so I should NOT get a mechanical keyboard right? If I'm wrong here please let me know. That CM you linked does look pretty sweet tho..

Thanks for the help everyone.
 
XFX GPU coolers aren't particularly good. I'd be looking at MSI, Sapphire, ASUS, or Gigabyte, and only their dual/triple fan coolers. I don't like reference coolers because they are usually comparatively ineffective and noisy. That goes for both AMD and nVidia.

The reason I don't recommend nVidia normally is AMD currently has very competitive pricing. The 660Ti performs only slightly better than a 7870 but costs the same as a 7950.
 

Doggman9

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Yeah I understand what your saying with the competitive pricing. Weren't the 7950's $400 when they launched? It does seem like a very nice card and if EVGA made one I'd probably get it. What if the GTX 660 Ti drops in price to say $260 over the next month or two, would it be worth taking a look at then?

Why is the ASUS 7950 $370 and all the other ones are around $320...? The ASUS is the only 7950 I like but it's way more expensive... I could almost get a GTX 670 for that.
 
What about these for looks?
MSI: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127667
Sapphire: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202003
Gigabyte: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125414
ASUS 3-slot: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=68756&vpn=HD7950-DC2-3GD5&manufacture=ASUS&promoid=1389

Those are the ones I'd recommend; though don't get the ASUS if you want to CF. ASUS makes a two-slot version of the DCuII cooler, but I can't find a 7950 with it.
 


You cant game on dual monitors, it will just display the game on the primary monitor. The other screen will either go black or sit at the desktop depending on the game, no resources are being used on that screen.

Links be broken on the monitors by the way.

The cheaper XFX model has an extra DVI-D port, so you could run up to three screens without using DisplayPort. Thats all as far as I can tell.
This also probably means it has a non-reference PCB, so it wouldn't be good for water-cooling if you are considering that later.
The Black edition only has 100Mhz more on the Core Clock, a fairly easy overclock for the 7950's.

Recommend the cards Someone put up, in particular the Sapphire one.
Just remember when you install the card, the cooler is face down. If the case had a window (which it doesn't), you would only see the PCB of the card.

AMD have been pretty competitive with their pricing as of late. When Nvidia released their Kepler cards, was quite embarrassing for AMD to have the GTX670 (a mid/high end card) beat their kingpin. Was only after the 12.7 driver updates that AMD reclaimed some ground, and then they had to have a $50 price cut on near everything to compensate for the 660 and 660Ti releasing.

ASUS components being expensive is almost a given, from motherboards to sound cards to graphics cards. They'r one of the bigger names in the computer industry, and are known for good quality. So they can easily charge more just because they are a well known and respected name, and people will buy it because of that name.
Almost like Apple, but not as vicious in their pricing (love how with the Mac Pro's they will charge you $90 for a 2GB stick of 1333Mhz RAM).

 

Doggman9

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I think I like the MSI Twin Frozr the best. I'll probably get that if I decide on the 7950. If I could find the two-slot ASUS 7950 I'd probably go for that but I couldn't find it either. What about a GTX 670 for $360 off newegg?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130782



Sorry about the broken links for the monitors.
Here they are:
1) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236292&Tpk=pb238q
2) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236205&Tpk=asus%2021.5%22%20ips
3) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236287&Tpk=pa248q

I'm also considering the GTX 670 now. What about that compared to the 7950?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130782

EDIT: After researching the GTX 670 again I think I will shoot for that. It's what I originally wanted anyways. I was going to try and save a few $'s by not getting the 670 but considering I want Nvidia and I want EVGA AND the 670 is a beast I'm just gonna get it. The money isn't that big of an issue so I figure why not.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/550?vs=598

EDIT2: So far I've updated the original build as follows:
GPU: Changed to an EVGA GTX 670 2GB
SSD: Changed to a Samsung 830 Series 256GB
Screen: Changed to the ASUS PA248Q 24"(1920x1200) IPS Display

Even with the more expensive GTX 670 and the really expensive ($310) screen I'm only at $1,554 + a $45 newegg giftcard so that's not bad at all. Any opinions on the two ProArt ASUS screens? I'm still not sold on the 24" (1920x1200) over the 23" (1920x1080) for another $80. Any opinions? As far as I can tell the only major difference between the two is the 1200 vertical pixels but there might be more to it. One is PB and one is PA so there could be a bigger difference than I think.
 

dyc4ha

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You know, if price is not that big of a deal to you, you have no reason to consider the 7950 if you are more comfortable with nvidia and evga. People recommend 7950 because of the competitive pricing, but what is a few bucks to you when you KNOW you will be happier with the 670? BTW 670 is a great gaming card, close to 680 performance at $100 cheaper.

About the above poster saying that you can't game on multi-monitors, that's just flat out misleading. I think what he meant was that not ALL games support multi-monitor gamings, but many of the popular titles do, including BF3, AC, WoW, Deus Ex, etc... look up the game you want to play if you want multi-monitor goodness.

About the 24" vs 23" screen: I was in the same spot as you about a year ago, I went with the 23" saved $100 and never regretted. It still looks drop dead gorgeous. Asus really surprised me with how good the screen was.

EDIT: Just noticed that you plan on SLI/xfire in the future, you might wanna invest in a 750W+ psu (e.g. Corsair HX750). The savings from the monitor should make it possible!

Cheers
 

Doggman9

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You make a good point about the graphics card. I think I will just get a 670 at this point.

Have you heard anything about the new PB series?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236292&Tpk=pb238q

I wish a PB248Q was out with 1920x1200 resolution. I'm leaning towards the PB238Q right now to be honest.

Thanks for the reminder about the PSU. Honestly I don't think I'm ever going to go down the SLI road so I may not change that.

Thanks for the help everyone.
 
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