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20D Battery Grip and AA's

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Anonymous
December 14, 2004 7:36:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Just got my new 20D with battery grip. But I have quickly discovered that I
can only get one shot out of a fresh set of alkalines installed in battery
grip and then upon the next shutter release...I get a blank display and dead
battery indicator flashing. I called Canon Canada...and their phone rep told
me that the tech behind said I need to use high milliamp output batteries.
Obviously referring to rechargeable NiMH. But why do they claim it will run
for about 80 shots on regular alkalines??? I find this VERY disappointing
for one big reason I got the grip is to have that "limp home" ability with
widely available alkalines!
Anyone else having this problem?

More about : 20d battery grip

Anonymous
December 15, 2004 11:46:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Doesn't sound right to me.
I got 50 or so shots from a set of 2 year old (new) batteries from mine.
Maybe your lens is a high drain affair?

"Scott Evans" <mbsevans@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103059512.789244@Virginia.BMTS.Com...
> Just got my new 20D with battery grip. But I have quickly discovered that
I
> can only get one shot out of a fresh set of alkalines installed in battery
> grip and then upon the next shutter release...I get a blank display and
dead
> battery indicator flashing. I called Canon Canada...and their phone rep
told
> me that the tech behind said I need to use high milliamp output batteries.
> Obviously referring to rechargeable NiMH. But why do they claim it will
run
> for about 80 shots on regular alkalines??? I find this VERY disappointing
> for one big reason I got the grip is to have that "limp home" ability with
> widely available alkalines!
> Anyone else having this problem?
>
>
Anonymous
December 15, 2004 11:46:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Well I tried a 2 year old set of Duracell ProCells and a newer set of
Memorex alkalines all with same results.
Now...I did peform the firmware update to 1.1.0 with AA installed, but my
assumption there was all will be fine as long as camera has uninterrupted
power during the upgrade. So I do NOT think that is anything to do with the
issue. As far as the lens...I have the 17-85 IS but even with auto focus and
stabilization turned off...still same result. VERY frustrating! Anyone else?

"Ryadia" <ryadia@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3298fgF3i2hnjU1@individual.net...
> Doesn't sound right to me.
> I got 50 or so shots from a set of 2 year old (new) batteries from mine.
> Maybe your lens is a high drain affair?
>
> "Scott Evans" <mbsevans@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1103059512.789244@Virginia.BMTS.Com...
> > Just got my new 20D with battery grip. But I have quickly discovered
that
> I
> > can only get one shot out of a fresh set of alkalines installed in
battery
> > grip and then upon the next shutter release...I get a blank display and
> dead
> > battery indicator flashing. I called Canon Canada...and their phone rep
> told
> > me that the tech behind said I need to use high milliamp output
batteries.
> > Obviously referring to rechargeable NiMH. But why do they claim it will
> run
> > for about 80 shots on regular alkalines??? I find this VERY
disappointing
> > for one big reason I got the grip is to have that "limp home" ability
with
> > widely available alkalines!
> > Anyone else having this problem?
> >
> >
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 1:16:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

It is a problem common to many if not all BG-E2s Canon is dealing with
it soon.
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 1:16:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

It is a problem common to many if not all BG-E2s Canon is dealing with
it soon.
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 8:11:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Where does this come from? Is this your opinion or based upon information
read elsewhere? Your own experience? Huh?

"ZONED!" <zoned@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103220993.469812.247140@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> It is a problem common to many if not all BG-E2s Canon is dealing with
> it soon.
>
Anonymous
December 17, 2004 12:00:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

The first part (It is a problem common to many if not all BG-E2s ) Is a
fact based on personal experience (multiple bodies and grips), not to
mention posts in DPreview
http://search.dpreview.com/forums/search.asp?query=20d+...
.. The second part (Canon is dealing with it soon ) is what a Canon rep.
told me in a face to face meeting on Saturday 12/11 at a major camera
store nearby. I cannot attest to the validity of his statement.
Anonymous
December 17, 2004 1:34:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Don't use Alkaline batteries !

Get AA Lithium.

Dave




"Scott Evans" <mbsevans@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103059512.789244@Virginia.BMTS.Com...
| Just got my new 20D with battery grip. But I have quickly discovered that I
| can only get one shot out of a fresh set of alkalines installed in battery
| grip and then upon the next shutter release...I get a blank display and dead
| battery indicator flashing. I called Canon Canada...and their phone rep told
| me that the tech behind said I need to use high milliamp output batteries.
| Obviously referring to rechargeable NiMH. But why do they claim it will run
| for about 80 shots on regular alkalines??? I find this VERY disappointing
| for one big reason I got the grip is to have that "limp home" ability with
| widely available alkalines!
| Anyone else having this problem?
|
|
Anonymous
December 17, 2004 5:08:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Read Canon batter grip documents.
Lithiums are not meant to work in this grip.
I swear to God.

"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
news:w3owd.23$_62.0@trnddc01...
> Don't use Alkaline batteries !
>
> Get AA Lithium.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> "Scott Evans" <mbsevans@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1103059512.789244@Virginia.BMTS.Com...
> | Just got my new 20D with battery grip. But I have quickly discovered
that I
> | can only get one shot out of a fresh set of alkalines installed in
battery
> | grip and then upon the next shutter release...I get a blank display and
dead
> | battery indicator flashing. I called Canon Canada...and their phone rep
told
> | me that the tech behind said I need to use high milliamp output
batteries.
> | Obviously referring to rechargeable NiMH. But why do they claim it will
run
> | for about 80 shots on regular alkalines??? I find this VERY
disappointing
> | for one big reason I got the grip is to have that "limp home" ability
with
> | widely available alkalines!
> | Anyone else having this problem?
> |
> |
>
>
Anonymous
December 17, 2004 8:52:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Scott Evans wrote:
> Read Canon batter grip documents.
> Lithiums are not meant to work in this grip.
> I swear to God.

Minolta too. No Lithium batts in the VC-9 grip.

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 12:45:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

I'm from Missouri

Show me.

Dave



"Scott Evans" <mbsevans@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103309810.470824@Virginia.BMTS.Com...
| Read Canon batter grip documents.
| Lithiums are not meant to work in this grip.
| I swear to God.
|
| "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
| news:w3owd.23$_62.0@trnddc01...
| > Don't use Alkaline batteries !
| >
| > Get AA Lithium.
| >
| > Dave
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > "Scott Evans" <mbsevans@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > news:1103059512.789244@Virginia.BMTS.Com...
| > | Just got my new 20D with battery grip. But I have quickly discovered
| that I
| > | can only get one shot out of a fresh set of alkalines installed in
| battery
| > | grip and then upon the next shutter release...I get a blank display and
| dead
| > | battery indicator flashing. I called Canon Canada...and their phone rep
| told
| > | me that the tech behind said I need to use high milliamp output
| batteries.
| > | Obviously referring to rechargeable NiMH. But why do they claim it will
| run
| > | for about 80 shots on regular alkalines??? I find this VERY
| disappointing
| > | for one big reason I got the grip is to have that "limp home" ability
| with
| > | widely available alkalines!
| > | Anyone else having this problem?
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 2:47:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

There are a huge number of different posts listed in the link I
provided, some sound like the same problem that I have while others
address numerous different problems. I can only attest to my own
experiences. The problem that I have (with the BG-E2 grip) occurs with
no flash, manual focus (both intended to limit drain) and brand new
AAs. The camera shuts down completely, no error, no LCD activity save
for an empty battery sign which flashes indicating a dead battery. This
occurs more than 50% of the time before the shutter is triggered once.
All is reset after switching off, ejecting the cartridge for a few
seconds, reloading it and powering up. And around and around it goes.
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 11:08:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"ZONED!" <zoned@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103259608.744821.248790@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> The first part (It is a problem common to many if not all BG-E2s ) Is a
> fact based on personal experience (multiple bodies and grips), not to
> mention posts in DPreview
> http://search.dpreview.com/forums/search.asp?query=20d+...
> . The second part (Canon is dealing with it soon ) is what a Canon rep.
> told me in a face to face meeting on Saturday 12/11 at a major camera
> store nearby. I cannot attest to the validity of his statement.
>
So I have some news here.

I use a Sigma 24~70 f2.8 on my 20D. It sits on a tripod most of the day
shooting santa pics this time of the year. Last night I followed the link
above and did some investigation on my own. The Sigma lens is what I would
call a "High drain" device. I used an oscilloscope to measure the battery
output with a variety of (Canon and Sigma) lenses in use.

The Canon lens which draws the least power is the plastic affair which comes
with the "kit". The lens drawing the most power is Sigma 100~300 f4 lens.
The 24~70 is next highest drain. When the batteries are at 30% or less, the
drain from running the focus motor and charging the internal flash at the
same time, kills the camera. Sometimes with error 99 which is basically a
fault it can't find and others just dead!

Doug
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 11:29:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
news:CrIwd.63$L7.39@trnddc05...
> I'm from Missouri
>
> Show me.
>
> Dave
>
>
Copied from the data sheet:
"If using throw away AA size batteries, Alkaline batteries are recommended.
<snip>
Lithium batteries cannot be used since they do not operate in this camera.
For rechargable batteries, use fully charged Nickel-hydride batteries that
are the same brand."

Doug
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 11:29:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

The following sounds like a bunch of BS. --
"Lithium batteries cannot be used since they do not operate in this camera"

A "AA" battery is a AA battery. The above sentence says NOTHING since the
BP-511/511A/512/514 are Lithium batteries with AA batteries being an alternate power source.

I would not believe *any* camera manufacturer unless they stated specific reasons a Lithium
battery can not be used. I use Lithium AA's in all sorts of devices. The only device that
shows a difference is a AA flashlight where the bulb has a shorter life. The flashlight
bulb has a shorter life for a simple reason, Lithium holds its voltage longer (which is just
slightly higher than Alkaline) without a voltage decay as a function of time while standard
and Lithium AA will have a voltage decay's a function of time. Since the life of a bulb is
dependant on the temperature of the filament and the filament burns hot longer, the bulb's
resultant life is shorter. This is not the same as any electronic device which uses active
electronic components not passive components.

Since the BP-511/511A/512/514 ARE in fact rechargeable Lithium batteries it is most likely a
Japanese to English language conversion mistake . In all the Canon web based documents I
found, the following is noted "* With Battery Grip BG-E2, size-AA batteries can be used."
This includes the PDF Manual for the 20D.

Unless a device SPECIFICALLY states use of Lithium batteries will void a given warranty, I
would not believe the manufacturer.

Dave

"Ryadia" <ryadia@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:32h4ksF3m6ilfU1@individual.net...
| Copied from the data sheet:
| "If using throw away AA size batteries, Alkaline batteries are recommended.
| <snip>
| Lithium batteries cannot be used since they do not operate in this camera.
| For rechargable batteries, use fully charged Nickel-hydride batteries that
| are the same brand."|
| Doug
|
|
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 11:29:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 23:55:15 GMT, "David H. Lipman"
<DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote:

>The following sounds like a bunch of BS. --
>"Lithium batteries cannot be used since they do not operate in this camera"
>
>A "AA" battery is a AA battery. The above sentence says NOTHING since the
>BP-511/511A/512/514 are Lithium batteries with AA batteries being an alternate power source.
>
>I would not believe *any* camera manufacturer unless they stated specific reasons a Lithium
>battery can not be used. I use Lithium AA's in all sorts of devices. The only device that
>shows a difference is a AA flashlight where the bulb has a shorter life. The flashlight
>bulb has a shorter life for a simple reason, Lithium holds its voltage longer (which is just
>slightly higher than Alkaline)

What part of "Lithium's voltage is just slightly higher than Alkaline"
isn't a credible reason for the caution to not use Lithium batteries?

If the manufacturer says "don't use Lithium batteries" and the OP is
having power related problems when using Lithium batteries, then the
first step is to stop using Lithium batteries and see if the problem
remains, or goes away.

jc
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 4:15:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

The OP is not using Lithium batteries. The Canon stock rechargeable batteries are Lithium
and a .1v higher voltage is insignificant. If it was significant why would Canon uses
Lithium in the BP-511/511A/512/514.

A Camera, *any* Camera will work with Lithium AA batteries for the same reason all the CD
Players, Radios, Toothbrushes, etc, have worked happily with Lithium and for a longer period
than Alkaline batteries do.

Dave



"JC Dill" <jcdill04@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:8em7s0lqvn9nkquml6herl95collpn8nfi@4ax.com...
|
| What part of "Lithium's voltage is just slightly higher than Alkaline"
| isn't a credible reason for the caution to not use Lithium batteries?
|
| If the manufacturer says "don't use Lithium batteries" and the OP is
| having power related problems when using Lithium batteries, then the
| first step is to stop using Lithium batteries and see if the problem
| remains, or goes away.
|
| jc
|
|
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 6:56:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

David H. Lipman wrote:

> The OP is not using Lithium batteries. The Canon stock rechargeable batteries are Lithium
> and a .1v higher voltage is insignificant. If it was significant why would Canon uses
> Lithium in the BP-511/511A/512/514.
>
> A Camera, *any* Camera will work with Lithium AA batteries for the same reason all the CD
> Players, Radios, Toothbrushes, etc, have worked happily with Lithium and for a longer period
> than Alkaline batteries do.

There appears to be something particular about Lithium batteries in AA format.

My cameras take lithium for the main battery compartment but the manual for my
VC-9 grip says not to use lithium AA's in the grip. The manual for the grip
states that the compatible batteries are:

CR123A Lithium (two)
2CR5 6V Lithium (one)
AA alkaline (four)
AA Ni-Cd (four)
further, Two CR123A's and one 2CR5 can be in the grip at the same time (a
switch on the grip selects either set, or the in camera batt).

Then the grip manual states, clearly: "AA lithium batteries cannot be used".

So, something about AA lithiums specifically is funny enough that the
manufacturer does not want them installed.

I've never heard a convincing reason why. 4 batts in series * 0.1 V = 0.4V
over... but on 6V that's not much. One hypothesis is that camera turn on causes
a current rush that is too much when AA-Li are used. Who knows?

IAC, I will not try it on my camera.

Cheers,
Alan.


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 11:05:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"ZONED!" <zoned@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103356071.939863.216760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> There are a huge number of different posts listed in the link I
> provided, some sound like the same problem that I have while others
> address numerous different problems. I can only attest to my own
> experiences. The problem that I have (with the BG-E2 grip) occurs with
> no flash, manual focus (both intended to limit drain) and brand new
> AAs. The camera shuts down completely, no error, no LCD activity save
> for an empty battery sign which flashes indicating a dead battery. This
> occurs more than 50% of the time before the shutter is triggered once.
> All is reset after switching off, ejecting the cartridge for a few
> seconds, reloading it and powering up. And around and around it goes.
>
I suppose you could take solace in the knowledge that the 10D grip never had
AA battery holder!
You can use the grip with just one battery. When that discharges, replace it
with the fresh one. I had thought originally the grip would provide deep
power but it doesn't. All you get is the portrait functionaltiy and the
ability to use hand strap.

I shot another 300 frames today, this time with the grip but only one
battery in it. I'm as confussed now as I've ever been. No idea what you or
my cameras problem is!! Sigh.

Doug
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 1:43:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Comparing the specifications from Energizer [http://www.energizer.com]. From the POV of the
device requiring the power, there is no difference. The two are rated at the SAME voltage
(and I had thought that Lithium was .1v higher)

However, the operating ambient temperature range is wider...
Operating Temp: -18ºC to 55ºC (0ºF to 130ºF) - Alkaline
Operating Temp: -40ºC to 60ºC (-40ºF to 140ºF) - Lithium <--best
Discharge @ 0.1C: -20ºC to 50ºC (- 4ºF to 122ºF) - NiMH
Discharge @ 0.1C: -20ºC to 50ºC (- 4ºF to 122ºF) - NiCd

And the capacity to hold its charge is better...
Average Capacity: 2,850 mAh (to 0.8 volts) - Alkaline
Average Capacity: 3000 mAh (to 1.0 volts) - Lithium <--best
Average Capacity: 2500 mAh (to 1.0 volts) - NiMH
Rated Capacity: 650 mAh (to 1.0 Volt) - NiCd

And its weight is lighter...
Average Weight: 23.0 grams - Alkaline
Average Weight: 14.5 grams - Lithium <--best
Average Weight: 28.1 grams - NiMH
Average Weight: 22.7 grams - NiCd

ENERGIZER NO. X91
-----------------------------------
Chemical System: Alkaline
Zinc-Manganese Dioxide (Zn/MnO 2)
(No Added Mercury or Cadmium)
Designation: ANSI-15A, IEC-LR6
Battery Voltage: 1.5 Volts
Internal Resistance: 146 Milliohms (Fresh)
Operating Temp: -18ºC to 55ºC (0ºF to 130ºF)
Average Capacity: 2,850 mAh (to 0.8 volts)
(Rated capacity at 25 mA continuous drain)
Average Weight: 23.0 grams (0.8 oz.)
Volume: 8.1 cubic centimeters (0.5 cubic inch)
Cell: One No. 3-315 (size 'AA')
Jacket: Plastic Label
Shelf Life: 7 years (80% of rated capacity)

ENERGIZER NO. L91
-------------------------------
Chemical System: Lithium
Lithium/Iron Disulfide (Li/FeS 2)
Designation: ANSI-15LF, IEC-FR6
Battery Voltage: 1.5 Volts
Average Weight: 14.5 grams (0.5 oz.)
Volume: 8.0 cubic centimeters (0.5 cubic inch)
Storage Temp: -40ºC to 60ºC (-40ºF to 140ºF)
Operating Temp: -40ºC to 60ºC (-40ºF to 140ºF)
Average Capacity: 3000 mAh (to 1.0 volts)
(Rated capacity at 200 mA drain.)
Max Discharge: 2 Amps Continuous
3 Amps Pulse (2 seconds max)
Lithium Content: Less than 1 gram (0.04 oz.) per cell
Jacket: Non-magnetic Plastic Label
Transportation: Meets requirments of 49CFR 173.185 (b)

ENERGIZER NO. NH15
--------------------------
Description: Rechargeable 1.2V
Chemical System: Nickel-Metal Hydride (NiMH)
Designation: ANSI-1.2H2
Battery Voltage: 1.2 Volts
Average Capacity: 2500 mAh (to 1.0 volts)
(Based on 500 mA (0.2C) discharge rate)
Average Weight: 28.1 grams (1.0 oz.)
Volume: 8.3 cubic centimeters (0.5 cubic inch)
Jacket: Plastic Label

ENERGIZER NO. CH15
-----------------------------
Chemical System: Nickel-Cadmium (NiCd)
Designation:ANSI / NEDA-10015, IEC-KR157/51
Battery Voltage: 1.2 Volts
Millimeters Inches Average Weight: 22.7 grams (0.8 oz.)
Volume: 8.3 cubic centimeters (0.51 cubic inch)
Terminals: Flat Contact
Rated Capacity: (to 1.0 Volt): 650 mAh
(Based on 130 mA (0.2C) discharge rate)
Maximum Charge Rate: 195 mA
Jacket: Plastic


Now look at the specs on; CR123A and 2CR5

ENERGIZER NO. EL123
-------------------------------
Chemical System: Lithium
Lithium/Manganese Dioxide (Li/MnO2)
Designation: ANSI / NEDA-5018LC, IEC-CR17345
Battery Voltage: 3.0 Volts
Average Weight: 16.8 grams (0.59 oz.)
Volume: 7.1 cubic centimeters (0.4 cubic inch)
Storage Temp: -40ºC to 60ºC (-40ºF to 140ºF)
Operating Temp: -40ºC to 60ºC (-40ºF to 140ºF)
Average Capacity: 1500 mAh to 2.0 volts
(Rated Capacity at 100 ohms at 21ºC)
Maximum Reverse
Charge Current: 2 microampere
Max Discharge: 1500 mA continuous - 3500 mA pulse
Cells: One 2/3A


ENERGIZER NO. 123
-------------------------------
Chemical System: Lithium
Lithium/Manganese Dioxide (Li/MnO2)
Designation: ANSI / NEDA-5018LC, IEC-CR17345
Battery Voltage: 3.0 Volts
Average Weight: 15.5 grams (0.55 oz.)
Volume: 7.1 cubic centimeters (0.4 cubic inch)
Average Capacity: 1300 mAh to 2.0 volts
(Rated Capacity at 100 ohms at 21ºC)
Maximum Reverse
Charge Current: 2 microampere
Max Discharge: 1500 mA continuous - 3500 mA pulse
Cells: One 2/3A

ENERGIZER NO. 2CR5 (EL2CR5)
---------
Chemical System: Lithium
Lithium/Manganese Dioxide (Li/MnO2)
Designation: ANSI / NEDA-5032LC, IEC-2CR5
Battery Voltage: 6.0 Volts
Average Weight: 39.5 grams (1.39 oz.)
Volume: 26.0 cubic centimeters (1.6 cubic inch)
Average Capacity: 1500 mAh to 3.5 volts
(Rated Capacity at 200 ohms at 21ºC)
Maximum Reverse
Charge Current: 2 microampere
Max Discharge: 1500 mA continuous - 3500 mA pulse
Cells: Two 2/3A-P
~~~~
Information obtained from data specifications posted in PDF format for Energizer models:
X91, L91, CH15, NH15, 123, EL123 and ELCR5 on
http://data.energizer.com/SearchResult.aspx

So, Lithium last longer, have a wider useable temperature range and weigh less. In
conclusion based upon comparing specifications for different batteries, use of Lithium AA
batteries is not and should not be considered contrindicated.
Note: Energizer CH15 (NiCd) have been discontinued due to environmental concerns of
Dadmium - http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/CH15.pdf )

Dave
BTW: The information I found on the VC-9 "The blurb advises you not to use AA zinc carbon
batteries..."
Minolta specifically states "Specially designed for the 9, 7, the multi-function grip lets
you hold and use the camera vertically with the same ease the camera body gives you during
horizontal operation. The grip allows you to use a choice of AA-size or lithium batteries to
run the camera (the camera by itself accepts only lithium batteries)."


"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:cq25hh$317$1@inews.gazeta.pl...

| There appears to be something particular about Lithium batteries in AA format.
|
| My cameras take lithium for the main battery compartment but the manual for my
| VC-9 grip says not to use lithium AA's in the grip. The manual for the grip
| states that the compatible batteries are:
|
| CR123A Lithium (two)
| 2CR5 6V Lithium (one)
| AA alkaline (four)
| AA Ni-Cd (four)
| further, Two CR123A's and one 2CR5 can be in the grip at the same time (a
| switch on the grip selects either set, or the in camera batt).
|
| Then the grip manual states, clearly: "AA lithium batteries cannot be used".
|
| So, something about AA lithiums specifically is funny enough that the
| manufacturer does not want them installed.
|
| I've never heard a convincing reason why. 4 batts in series * 0.1 V = 0.4V
| over... but on 6V that's not much. One hypothesis is that camera turn on causes
| a current rush that is too much when AA-Li are used. Who knows?
|
| IAC, I will not try it on my camera.
|
| Cheers,
| Alan.
|
|
| --
| -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
| -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
| -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
| -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 9:32:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
news:h4Wwd.174$Y57.126@trnddc08...
> The OP is not using Lithium batteries. The Canon stock rechargeable
batteries are Lithium
> and a .1v higher voltage is insignificant. If it was significant why
would Canon uses
> Lithium in the BP-511/511A/512/514.
>
> A Camera, *any* Camera will work with Lithium AA batteries for the same
reason all the CD
> Players, Radios, Toothbrushes, etc, have worked happily with Lithium and
for a longer period
> than Alkaline batteries do.
>
> Dave
>
>
Hey David...
It's OK to get passionate about a belief but we're talking here about a
statement from Canon that says explicitely not to use Lithium batteries. If
you argue with Canon, I can understand it but shooting the messenger because
you don't like what they say is very Romanish, don't you think?

Doug
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 9:32:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Maybe Doug, but, I can't find any real documentary information barring the use of AA Lithium
batteries.

If I had that unit, I would be using AA Lithium Batteries and I bet there would be no
problems in doing so.

Dave




"Ryadia" <ryadia@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:32ji4cF3niirjU1@individual.net...
| Hey David...
| It's OK to get passionate about a belief but we're talking here about a
| statement from Canon that says explicitely not to use Lithium batteries. If
| you argue with Canon, I can understand it but shooting the messenger because
| you don't like what they say is very Romanish, don't you think?
|
| Doug
|
|
December 19, 2004 9:32:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in
news:sK0xd.203$L7.164@trnddc05:

> Maybe Doug, but, I can't find any real documentary information barring
> the use of AA Lithium batteries.
>
> If I had that unit, I would be using AA Lithium Batteries and I bet
> there would be no problems in doing so.

Personally, I don't think that would be a good idea!

Lithium AA Cells produce about 1.6V each and 6 x 1.6 = 9.6V
Canon BP-511 is rated at 7.4V
Ni-MH AA Cells produce about 1.2V each and 6 x 1.2 = 7.2V
Alkaline AA Cells produce less than Ni-MH under a load, so they will be
lucky to provide 7V.

Canon say not to use Lithium AA cells.

So how do you have a better understanding than Canon about what the 20D is
designed to tolerate in its power input?


--
Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 12-Nov-04)
"There are 10 types of people, those that
understand binary and those that don't"



-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
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Anonymous
December 19, 2004 3:11:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

David H. Lipman wrote:

> BTW: The information I found on the VC-9 "The blurb advises you not to use AA zinc carbon
> batteries..."
> Minolta specifically states "Specially designed for the 9, 7, the multi-function grip lets
> you hold and use the camera vertically with the same ease the camera body gives you during
> horizontal operation. The grip allows you to use a choice of AA-size or lithium batteries to
> run the camera (the camera by itself accepts only lithium batteries)."

Please provide the link for the info above.

I have the VC-9 grip, which is designed solely for the Maxxum 9. The Maxxum 7
has a different grip VC-7, the contact connector being ~2 inches off and the
hard alignment pin near the shutter release being over an inch away from where
it is on the VC-9.
VC-9 grip: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/items/241999.jpg
VC-7 grip: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/items/212609.jpg

The VC-9 and the manual for same are 8 inches to the right of my keyboard as I
type this. The information I give below is exact. Further, on the grip itself
is repeated the admonition: "Do not use AA-size lithium and carbon-zinc batteries."

There is (as clearly stated below) no restriction on CR123A and 2CR5 lithium
batteries in the grip. The restriction is for the AA format alone.

The same restriction applies to the VC-7 grip for the Maxxum 7.

The restriction on carbon-zinc does not appear in the manual.

Regardless of the specs for AA-lithium, the restriction against their use on the
Maxxum product and on other (Canon) camera products indicates that there is some
specific issue. I don't know _what_ the issue is. One hypothesis I've read is
that the current surge at start from the AA-Li's is high. I don't know if that
is true.

Cheers,
Alan



> | There appears to be something particular about Lithium batteries in AA format.
> |
> | My cameras take lithium for the main battery compartment but the manual for my
> | VC-9 grip says not to use lithium AA's in the grip. The manual for the grip
> | states that the compatible batteries are:
> |
> | CR123A Lithium (two)
> | 2CR5 6V Lithium (one)
> | AA alkaline (four)
> | AA Ni-Cd (four)
> | further, Two CR123A's and one 2CR5 can be in the grip at the same time (a
> | switch on the grip selects either set, or the in camera batt).
> |
> | Then the grip manual states, clearly: "AA lithium batteries cannot be used".
> |


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 6:43:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
news:No2xd.2740$tG3.1534@trnddc02...
> Comparing the specifications from Energizer [http://www.energizer.com].
From the POV of the
> device requiring the power, there is no difference. The two are rated at
the SAME voltage
> (and I had thought that Lithium was .1v higher)
>
So tell me David...
Who will be the first to put forbiden batteries in their new camera?
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 6:43:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

ME !

There aren't any devices I own that use AA batteries where I don't use Lithium. When I was
photographing a Phan Phest a taper didn't have spare batteries for their 4mm DAT tape drive.
I gave them a four pack of Energizer Lithium AA. They were surprised how long they lasted
and thanked me -- four months later.

It is too bad I don't own the indicated devices :-(

Dave




"Ryadia" <ryadia@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:32kiemF3ntshtU1@individual.net...
|
| "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
| news:No2xd.2740$tG3.1534@trnddc02...
| > Comparing the specifications from Energizer [http://www.energizer.com].
| From the POV of the
| > device requiring the power, there is no difference. The two are rated at
| the SAME voltage
| > (and I had thought that Lithium was .1v higher)
| >
| So tell me David...
| Who will be the first to put forbiden batteries in their new camera?
|
|
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 6:43:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

I should add...
I just found the pamphlet for my flash unit, Quantaray QTB-9500A.
It states, - "For best results, use Alkaline batteries"

However, I have been using Energizer Lithium AA batteries since I bought it. :-)

Dave




"Ryadia" <ryadia@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:32kiemF3ntshtU1@individual.net...
|
| "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
| news:No2xd.2740$tG3.1534@trnddc02...
| > Comparing the specifications from Energizer [http://www.energizer.com].
| From the POV of the
| > device requiring the power, there is no difference. The two are rated at
| the SAME voltage
| > (and I had thought that Lithium was .1v higher)
| >
| So tell me David...
| Who will be the first to put forbiden batteries in their new camera?
|
|
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 6:43:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

David H. Lipman wrote:

> ME !
>
> There aren't any devices I own that use AA batteries where I don't use Lithium. When I was
> photographing a Phan Phest a taper didn't have spare batteries for their 4mm DAT tape drive.
> I gave them a four pack of Energizer Lithium AA. They were surprised how long they lasted
> and thanked me -- four months later.


You can hardly go wrong heeding the advice of the manufacturer to avoid a
certain battery type.

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 9:14:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

http://www.adorama.com/MNVC9.html
http://konicaminolta.com/products/consumer/camera-peu/s...
http://met.open.ac.uk/group/cpv/photo/vc9.html

Dave



"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:cq4cn9$mrd$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
| David H. Lipman wrote:
|
| > BTW: The information I found on the VC-9 "The blurb advises you not to use AA zinc
carbon
| > batteries..."
| > Minolta specifically states "Specially designed for the 9, 7, the multi-function grip
lets
| > you hold and use the camera vertically with the same ease the camera body gives you
during
| > horizontal operation. The grip allows you to use a choice of AA-size or lithium
batteries to
| > run the camera (the camera by itself accepts only lithium batteries)."
|
| Please provide the link for the info above.
|
| I have the VC-9 grip, which is designed solely for the Maxxum 9. The Maxxum 7
| has a different grip VC-7, the contact connector being ~2 inches off and the
| hard alignment pin near the shutter release being over an inch away from where
| it is on the VC-9.
| VC-9 grip: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/items/241999.jpg
| VC-7 grip: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/items/212609.jpg
|
| The VC-9 and the manual for same are 8 inches to the right of my keyboard as I
| type this. The information I give below is exact. Further, on the grip itself
| is repeated the admonition: "Do not use AA-size lithium and carbon-zinc batteries."
|
| There is (as clearly stated below) no restriction on CR123A and 2CR5 lithium
| batteries in the grip. The restriction is for the AA format alone.
|
| The same restriction applies to the VC-7 grip for the Maxxum 7.
|
| The restriction on carbon-zinc does not appear in the manual.
|
| Regardless of the specs for AA-lithium, the restriction against their use on the
| Maxxum product and on other (Canon) camera products indicates that there is some
| specific issue. I don't know _what_ the issue is. One hypothesis I've read is
| that the current surge at start from the AA-Li's is high. I don't know if that
| is true.
|
| Cheers,
| Alan
|
|
|
| > | There appears to be something particular about Lithium batteries in AA format.
| > |
| > | My cameras take lithium for the main battery compartment but the manual for my
| > | VC-9 grip says not to use lithium AA's in the grip. The manual for the grip
| > | states that the compatible batteries are:
| > |
| > | CR123A Lithium (two)
| > | 2CR5 6V Lithium (one)
| > | AA alkaline (four)
| > | AA Ni-Cd (four)
| > | further, Two CR123A's and one 2CR5 can be in the grip at the same time (a
| > | switch on the grip selects either set, or the in camera batt).
| > |
| > | Then the grip manual states, clearly: "AA lithium batteries cannot be used".
| > |
|
|
| --
| -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
| -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
| -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
| -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 9:14:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

David H. Lipman wrote:

> http://www.adorama.com/MNVC9.html
They are quite simply wrong. (I'll write to them).

Oddly enough, Adorama have the following link too:
http://www.adorama.com/MNVC7.html?searchinfo=Minolta%20...

and comparing the two images it is quite clear that they are not possible
interchangeable.

Also see the two photos of the grip for the Max 9 and Max 7 I linked to from B&H.
VC-9 grip: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/items/241999.jpg
VC-7 grip: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/items/212609.jpg

> http://konicaminolta.com/products/consumer/camera-peu/s...
They (Minolta!) are right because they specify two different grips:
"Vertical Control Grip VC-9 (9) / VC-7 (7)"
states also "The grip allows you to use a choice of AA-size or lithium
batteries", doesn't state that the AA's are Li.

> http://met.open.ac.uk/group/cpv/photo/vc9.html
Doesn't mention the Maxxum 7 at all (and rightly so).

Again, I have the product and the manual. I have two friends with Maxxum 7's
and grips. I think I know of what I speak. And if Minolta say "don't do dat"
then I don't do dat. The camera body was CAD$2200 when I bought it and US$1059
today. So I don't do dat.

I suggest with all kindness that if Canon say "don't do dat" they proabably have
good reason that is likely similar to Minolta's reason to say "Don't do dat."

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
Anonymous
December 20, 2004 4:09:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

WOW...well now...that has been quite the thread over the course of last few
days. Didnt realize what a controversy I would start.

Here is what I can deduce from this thread...and it is pretty much summed up
in the information posted from the Eveready website.

Did anyone else notice the millamp output of the lithiums?
3500!

THAT in itself may be the very reason Canon essentially says NO to using
them in the grip. Maybe I will burn a set in the grip on my way to dropping
off the grip at Canon repair...for the BIGGER issue with the grip, voltage
cutout and such. That way...I can just let them deal with the damage the
lithiums MAY do...then again...maybe that level of amperage will cook the
20D too.

Yeah...on and on it goes. If only Nikon offered a battery grip on the D70...
"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:cpvnv6$jm9$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Scott Evans wrote:
> > Read Canon batter grip documents.
> > Lithiums are not meant to work in this grip.
> > I swear to God.
>
> Minolta too. No Lithium batts in the VC-9 grip.
>
> --
> -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
> -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
> -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
> -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
Anonymous
December 20, 2004 9:09:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

David H. Lipman <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote:
> Comparing the specifications from Energizer [http://www.energizer.com]. From the POV of the
> device requiring the power, there is no difference. The two are rated at the SAME voltage
> (and I had thought that Lithium was .1v higher)


Let me see ...

[snip long list]

> So, Lithium last longer, have a wider useable temperature range and weigh less. In
> conclusion based upon comparing specifications for different batteries, use of Lithium AA
> batteries is not and should not be considered contrindicated.

http://www.flashlightreviews.com/features/batteries_exp...
claims different: the internal resistance of Alkaline batteries
can be used by application as a current limiter. With Lithiums
having a lower internal resistance, some devices may draw too much
current due to the lower overall resistance and cook themselves.

Oh, and it says that Alkaline AAs drain from 1.5 to 1.2 Volts ---
while Lithium AAs stay at 1.7V.


That all means that e.g. the handgrip for the Canon 20D (6 AA
batteries or 1 or 2 of the proprietary 7.2V Lithium-Ion blocks)
would be 9V. Or, more exactly, 7.2V under load. --- exactly
the voltage of the proprietary Lithium-Ion (!= Lithium) block!
(Fancy that!) But with Lithium AAs you'd get 10.2 Volts, which
just may be too high, and coupled with much the lower internal
resistance a a much higher current may flow.

And then there is the max allowed current which is well below
short circuit current.


> Dave
> BTW: The information I found on the VC-9 "The blurb advises you not to use AA zinc carbon
> batteries..."

Probably due to too high internal resistance for satisfying
operation. Canon's 20D's handgrip states the same.

See also http://www.repairfaq.org/ELE/F_Batteries.html


> Minolta specifically states "Specially designed for the 9, 7, the multi-function grip lets
> you hold and use the camera vertically with the same ease the camera body gives you during
> horizontal operation. The grip allows you to use a choice of AA-size or lithium batteries to
> run the camera (the camera by itself accepts only lithium batteries)."

Do they mean rechargable Lithium-Ion or non-rechargeable
Lithium batteries?


According to
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/x91.pdf
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/e91.pdf
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/EN91.pdf
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/3315wc.pdf

each down to 1.0V
Photoflash Digital Camera
L91 Lithium 180m 300m [1]
X91 Alkaline 50m 50m
E91 Alkaline 60m 30m
EN91 Alkaline 60m 40m
3-315WC Alkaline 60m 45m

As you can see, Alkaline batteries handle burst drains (much)
better than semi-constant drains --- and the reverse is true for
Lithium batteries ...

[1] Voltage under load up to 1.6V --- look at the diagrams!


-Wolfgang
Anonymous
December 20, 2004 9:11:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:

>>So, Lithium last longer, have a wider useable temperature range and weigh less. In
>>conclusion based upon comparing specifications for different batteries, use of Lithium AA
>>batteries is not and should not be considered contrindicated.
>
>
> http://www.flashlightreviews.com/features/batteries_exp...
> claims different: the internal resistance of Alkaline batteries
> can be used by application as a current limiter. With Lithiums
> having a lower internal resistance, some devices may draw too much
> current due to the lower overall resistance and cook themselves.
>
> That all means that e.g. the handgrip for the Canon 20D (6 AA
> batteries or 1 or 2 of the proprietary 7.2V Lithium-Ion blocks)
> would be 9V. Or, more exactly, 7.2V under load. --- exactly
> the voltage of the proprietary Lithium-Ion (!= Lithium) block!
> (Fancy that!) But with Lithium AAs you'd get 10.2 Volts, which
> just may be too high, and coupled with much the lower internal
> resistance a a much higher current may flow.


That's as reasonable an expalantion as any, and validates prior speculation the
the voltage was too high or the start current was too high. The voltage gets
it. wrt the Minolta, 4 AA's at 1.7V would be 7.2V. Well above the nominal 6V.
Measuring a new/unused pair of CR123A's I get 3.24+3.25=6.49V. Very tolerable.

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
Anonymous
December 21, 2004 12:51:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Scott Evans wrote:

> WOW...well now...that has been quite the thread over the course of last few
> days. Didnt realize what a controversy I would start.
>
> Here is what I can deduce from this thread...and it is pretty much summed up
> in the information posted from the Eveready website.
>
> Did anyone else notice the millamp output of the lithiums?
> 3500!

That's a capabilty, not what it gives unless the circuit draws that much. I can
understand, however that a circuit that is designed to expect Alkaline batt
performance with alkaline internal resistance will draw too much with the
slightly higher V and abilty to provide amps like the Li's.

>
> THAT in itself may be the very reason Canon essentially says NO to using
> them in the grip. Maybe I will burn a set in the grip on my way to dropping

It's probably not the grip that gets damaged. It's just a box and some
switches. It is likely the camera that would be damaged by the v-a from the Li's.

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 3:46:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

I don't have sufficient information to make a continued argument but at least my elementary
math is better.

Dave



"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:cq7m7l$9sn$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
|
|
| That's as reasonable an expalantion as any, and validates prior speculation the
| the voltage was too high or the start current was too high. The voltage gets
| it. wrt the Minolta, 4 AA's at 1.7V would be 7.2V. Well above the nominal 6V.
| Measuring a new/unused pair of CR123A's I get 3.24+3.25=6.49V. Very tolerable.
|
| --
| -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
| -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
| -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
| -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 1:48:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

David H. Lipman wrote:

> I don't have sufficient information to make a continued argument but at least my elementary
> math is better.


Ooops! 6.8V then. A bit high, but not so bad... so as Wolfgang suggests, the
real culprit is likely the sustained voltage at that level with attendant
current is what the manuf. is qorried about...


> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
> news:cq7m7l$9sn$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> |
> |
> | That's as reasonable an expalantion as any, and validates prior speculation the
> | the voltage was too high or the start current was too high. The voltage gets
> | it. wrt the Minolta, 4 AA's at 1.7V would be 7.2V. Well above the nominal 6V.
> | Measuring a new/unused pair of CR123A's I get 3.24+3.25=6.49V. Very tolerable.
> |
> | --
> | -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
> | -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
> | -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
> | -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
>
>


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
Anonymous
February 8, 2005 7:41:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

I had the grip so that I could use a couple of 511A's but it was
displaying incorrect battery levels and then saying the batteries were
dead. Pop off the grip and put a 511A into the camera and *POOF!*,
the battery has recharged to full again...

When I sent the grip back, I also gave up the thought of limping on
AA's so I bought 4 batteries
(http://www.sterlingtek.com/ln03-canon-bp-511-dlc511.htm...) and a
charger (http://www.sterlingtek.com/canbp511acba.html) from
SterlingTek instead. I heard good reviews of their batteries so I
thought I would give them a try. What can I say? Now I have 4
batteries that each shoot longer than my original Canon 511A battery
and I have a charger that works at home or on the road in any
cigarette lighter. Will I ever have to "limp" home? Nope. Never.
Now I just need a laptop or something for emptying the compact flash
cards...


On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:36:55 -0500, "Scott Evans"
<mbsevans@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Just got my new 20D with battery grip. But I have quickly discovered that I
>can only get one shot out of a fresh set of alkalines installed in battery
>grip and then upon the next shutter release...I get a blank display and dead
>battery indicator flashing. I called Canon Canada...and their phone rep told
>me that the tech behind said I need to use high milliamp output batteries.
>Obviously referring to rechargeable NiMH. But why do they claim it will run
>for about 80 shots on regular alkalines??? I find this VERY disappointing
>for one big reason I got the grip is to have that "limp home" ability with
>widely available alkalines!
>Anyone else having this problem?
>
Anonymous
February 8, 2005 8:55:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

My 20D with Battery grip does the same thing but I just open the
battery compartment and pop the batteries out and back in and then it
registers as it should. It's a strange quirk but I prefer the battery
grip because of the vertical controls so I just work around it. My 10D
with grip never did this.
Any other 20D users with grip run into ths?

Art
Anonymous
February 8, 2005 3:28:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Fyimo wrote:
> My 20D with Battery grip does the same thing but I just open the
> battery compartment and pop the batteries out and back in and then it
> registers as it should. It's a strange quirk but I prefer the battery
> grip because of the vertical controls so I just work around it. My 10D
> with grip never did this.
> Any other 20D users with grip run into ths?
>
> Art

From a post I made late last year:

"At the original evaluation, I took a couple pictures in each
configuration (New alkalines, fresh NImH in battery grip). Now I have
done this:

Duracell AA Alkalines:
Loaded right up again, took a dozen RAW picts, turned it off. Turned it
on, got the low battery flasher, turned it off, removed the battery
magazine, reinserted it, turned it on, got a half-battery picture on the
LCD, took forty Large Fine pictures (nearly all with flash), got the low
battery flasher, couldn't get anything else under any conditions.

Panasonic 2100 mAh rechargables, fresh from the chargers:
Loaded right up, took a dozen RAW pictures, turned it off. Turned it on,
got the half-battery picture, took six bursts of Large Fine pictures,
each burst running until it wouldn't take any more while it wrote 20 or
21 pictures to disk. Before the last burst got the low battery flasher,
turned it off, turned it on, got the half-battery picture, took the last
burst. Got the flasher, turned it off, turned it on, nothing. Removed
the magazine, reinserted it, got the half-battery sign, took three
pictures, got the flasher. Same routine three more times, nine more
pictures. Removed the magazine, reinserted, not enough power to get any
function. Inserted the 511As and the second picture filled the
plain-vanilla Sandisk 512meg card, using up 481 plus overhead, 212
pictures total (I may have miscounted the RAWs).

So, they both worked, albeit with a bit more hassle than the Canon
"Packs". I suspect the 2500mAh AAs will perform proportionately, perhaps
230-240 Large Fines before packing it in.

So I ordered another 511A and the dual-charger. If you use two 511As in
the grip-pack, I reckon when they quit neither will be useful until
charged, and you'll never get back in phase unless you can charge both
at once, while using the single Pack until they catch up.

Anyone know how many Large Fines you can get from a 511 or a pair? Mine
still show "full" after about 400 total pictures.

=======
I meant to mention that the Panasonic cells took very few minutes to
recharge fully after this episode. I take that to mean the Canon setup
cannot utilize their potential. In my Nikon CP grips they last a long,
long time, and take more than an hour to recharge.

=======
Resp'y


--
Frank ess"

====================================
=================================
"
On January 15, in a "20D battery question" thread, I posted:
"I bought two
"For BP511 Replacement
Li-ion Battery 7.4V 1800mAh"
From Sterlingtek via Amazon.com

The order was for 1390mAh batteries, but 1800 was what Sterlingtek
delivered. They were $11.99 each, and arrived a week or so after the
order was placed. Shipping and handling was $9.98, pretty much at the
upper limit, my view, but the cost for each battery was $16.98.

When I received them I measured their voltages out of the package:
7.64 and 7.67

I charged them in the
"Canon
COMPACT POWER ADAPTER
CA-PS400"
which is like the regular charger, except it has two receptacles
side-by-side, and an outlet for the power cord allowing use of the
camera in an AC environment.

They charged one after the other, left to right: one light blinked;
changing batteries from one receptacle to the other, the blinking light
did not follow the battery. After charging (and the at-least-an-hour at
no-blink recommended for the second battery; meaning the first battery
got its own charge and the additional time-in-receptacle corresponding
to the charge time for the second battery and its subsequent hour), I
measured their voltages:
8.33 and 8.11, respectively.

After five days on the shelf:
8.30 and 8.10


That's it. Science marches on."

Now I can report a week's use of those two batteries has passed 1100
images and the full-battery symbol is still full. After 500 images they
were at 7.96 and 8.00 volts.

If I were prone to anxiety, it would be assuaged."
=================================

020805:
I now have about 1800 shots on that pair of SterlingTek 511s, and the
half-battery has been showing for the past 200 or so.

Voltages are 7.82 and 7.84

--
Frank ess
!