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Bizzare CPU temps in new setup!??

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March 6, 2013 7:16:18 PM

Hey guys, recently upgraded to an Intel i7 3770 & an ASUS Sabertooth Z77, all has gone fine so far, after initial install CPU temps were around 29c-34c range idle, then when I launched ArmA III Alpha this afternoon I got a little popup saying "Warning! CPU temp 71 celcius!".

After pressing Alt + Tab the CPU temps were hovering around 40c-50c range and I couldn't figure out why, I previously had an AMD FX 8120 which rarely got above 45c even on full load/gaming, and around 25c-27c idle.

I read a previous forum which suggested using RealTemp, as the ASUS Suite II isn't particularly good at giving accurate CPU readings, I know the CPU temps should be a LOT lower than what they are now, they hover around 40c after gaming, and was quite shocked to hear the max temp was 60c according to RealTemp.

Funny thing is while I'm writing this post my CPU temp is around 32c-31c, yet if I start ArmA III Alpha again they will rocket to 60c (ish), so far I've tightened the screws on the heat sink and it's fastened perfectly normal, the fans on the heat sink are no different to the position they were in before, the only difference between this and my old build was I had to re-apply fresh thermal paste, which I did smear over the bottom of the heatsink, but only a very thin layer just enough to cover the surface.

Here's an image of my temps now and what they have been so far, way too high for what they should be, could it be the thermal paste? (Bear in mind the Thermal paste I used was Artic Silver 5 which was roughly 9 months old). The thermal paste had a normal texture and spread fine.



Thanks for your help guys!

More about : bizzare cpu temps setup

March 6, 2013 7:23:23 PM

Full specs:

CASE: CM Storm Trooper

MOTHERBOARD: ASUS Sabertooth Z77

CPU: Intel i7 3770

STORAGE: [1x 120GB SSD] [1x 1TB HDD]

RAM: Mushkin Redline (12GB)

GPU: (2x) MSI GTX 560Ti Twin Frzr II (SLI)

PSU: OCZ Gold Series 1000w

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March 6, 2013 8:20:52 PM

Upper 50s/lower 60s isn't out of line for a stock cooler on an i7 IB when stressed out. A bit warmer than you'd like, yes. But not totally unexpected. Try Core Temp for comparison and see what it reads.
(Don't click on "Download". Click on 'more downloads' to get the stand-alone pgm so you don't get all the add-ware.)
http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/
Related resources
March 6, 2013 8:28:03 PM

DUH! Sorry I forgot to mention, I'm using a Noctua NH-D14 for cooling, I used the spread method for the thermal paste which I've found out isn't the best way, would using the small pea sized method improve my temps??

NOTE: Recently run ArmA III again with temps hitting 90c for about 5 seconds before I forced closed the program, installing a basic program makes temps jumpy up to 45-50c as well, definitely not right :\
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March 6, 2013 8:30:58 PM

Monty_Python said:
DUH! Sorry I forgot to mention, I'm using a Noctua NH-D14 for cooling, I used the spread method for the thermal paste which I've found out isn't the best way, would using the small pea sized method improve my temps??

NOTE: Recently run ArmA III again with temps hitting 90c for about 5 seconds before I forced closed the program, installing a basic program makes temps jumpy up to 45-50c as well, definitely not right :\

I personally would use the pea size method. IT sounds like there is to much paste or bubbles. Something is acting as an insulator. Be certain to fully clean all the old paste off with a non lint / static cloth and some alcohol :) .
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March 6, 2013 8:37:33 PM

Definitely the pea size method. Here is the Arctic Silver Instructions: http://www.arcticsilver.com/instructions.htm

Never touch the surfaces or the TIM with your bare finger. You don't want to contaminate it with body oil or dirt. I like to use AS cleaner and purifier first.

It could also be poor contact or pressure between surfaces.
March 6, 2013 8:41:43 PM

Thanks guys :)  I've double and triple checked both heatink fans and mounting, everything is fine so I'll re-apply the thermal paste and see if the pea sized method helps! I'll get back to you soon, thanks again folks!
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March 6, 2013 11:35:33 PM

unclewebb said:
If Intel designs their CPUs to run 100% reliably up to 105C, why do people start getting worried when the core temperature goes over 60C?

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6216/torturetest.png

RealTemp T|I Edition
http://www.overclock.net/t/1330144/realtemp-t-i-edition

Maybe because the high temps will eventually take their toll on the chip, and some of us want our processors to last a long time. And maybe because the accepted max operating temp is high 60s for the 77W CPU.
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March 7, 2013 4:28:53 AM

clutchc said:
... the accepted max operating temp is high 60s for the 77W CPU.


That number you are quoting, 67.4°C, has absolutely nothing to do with the peak core temperature that software like RealTemp or Core Temp reports. You can not compare this temperature to the peak core temperature.

This 67.4°C specification is intended for system builders, not individual users. The only way to correctly measure this temperature is to take a Dremel or similar tool, cut a groove into the top of the heat spreader and then you need to mount a thermocouple at the geometric center of the heat spreader. If the temperature measured using this method goes over 67.4°C, it is likely that your CPU will thermal throttle during normal use and it will not be able to perform at its rated speed.

Intel does not want that to happen but they do not expect individual users to hack up their new CPU to properly measure this temperature. That's why they position individual temperature sensors at the hottest spots on each core of their CPUs. Intel wants you to get the maximum performance out of your CPU without having to worry about damaging it. If the core temperature shown in the above pic was damaging the CPU then it would be simple for Intel to lower the thermal throttling temperature to prevent this from happening. When going from Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge, they actually did the opposite and raised the desktop thermal throttling temperature from 98°C to 105°C. It looks like they have a lot of confidence in their CPUs ability to run reliably for the long haul at some very high core temperatures.

Here's what the Intel datasheet has to say:

"Processor Hot: PROCHOT# goes active when the processor temperature monitoring sensor(s) detects that the processor has
reached its maximum safe operating temperature."

On Ivy Bridge CPUs, PROCHOT goes active at a peak core temperature of 105°C. When this happens, RealTemp will report in the Thermal Status area LOG which indicates an overheating episode has been logged within the CPU. When RealTemp reports OK, that means the CPU has been operating at a "safe operating temperature" since you last booted up.
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March 7, 2013 6:17:49 AM

IMO the cooler is not properly seated.......

try reassemble it (and reapply the thermal paste)

Are u sure it not throttling in 100c, I once had pentium D that hit 90c it slow down everything. and make my pc literally as a heater
March 7, 2013 8:24:37 AM

Hey guys, completely cleaned both heatsink & processor, then put a small pea sized amount on the CPU, heatsink screwed in completely normal, temps on boot up are slightly higher and more erratic than they were before!

Averaging around 45-50c on idle then randomly jumping to 70-80c for a few seconds, CPU usage is at 0.8-1.0% would it have anything to do with the Artic 5 break in point for the temps to take effect? I read somewhere it might require 200 hours before it starts lowering the temps?

I can't believe an extremely inefficient chip such as the Bulldozer FX was operating more than 10c cooler than my new Ivybridge!? :S Struggling to figure this one out! Once again thanks for the suggestions guys :) 
March 7, 2013 8:28:44 AM

These are my temps for the last 10 minutes or so according to RealTemp:



These are my current temps according to the AI Suite II:

March 7, 2013 8:43:30 AM

What about your case ? What size is it? Also any case fans installed ? No matter how good a cpu cooler is if the heat doesn't get out, it will gradually build up....

EDIT: Sorry now saw that you have a CM storm trooper, I assume this has enough fans and in good working condition...

Although with 2 high end GPUs you might think that there is a possibility they might not be enough ? Can you try with open case, a large fan blowing on the side maybe ?
March 7, 2013 9:04:48 AM

Yea the fan setup is just fine, and with my previous bulldozer chip the temps were nice and chilly, 25-27c CPU on idle, Mobo usually 29-30c

Here's the fan set up:

March 7, 2013 9:23:47 AM

Just hit 71c-80c while watching a YouTube vid in 480p, I've noticed when that happens all the fans kick in and there's an increasing wooshing noise before the temps stabilize, could it be because the fans are being controlled automatically instead of being full RPM that the CPU temps are high?? Just a suggestion...
March 7, 2013 9:32:18 AM

Does the motherboard throttle down the CPU speed when idle ? I see a 3657MHz at your screeshot with 3% load, is that a coincidence ? Did you install latest mobo BIOS ?
At least when idle your CPU and voltage should be less and go up as system load increases. I'm just throwing out some ideas here...
March 7, 2013 9:40:25 AM

Yea I think so, the CPU frequency is updating every second, some times it's 2214.92 MHz and within a second it'll randomly go up to 3,756Mhz and back down again etc...

The AI Suite II Utility doesn't work or connect to any servers, so I Can't update the latest BIOS, I guess I'll have to manually do it myself with a USB stick, would that justify the high CPU temps though? When I launch ArmA III and the screen goes black, the temps shoot up to about 100c and then average 64c-70c during gaming (In windowed mode).

Could it possibly be the heatsink? There's nothing to suggest it's damaged really, the fans work fine and it's only just 12 months old?
March 7, 2013 9:41:39 AM

Temps again with the ArmA III launch:

March 7, 2013 9:51:19 AM

Well the strange thing is as you say that temps go up 60 degrees in a few seconds.

Either the temps are not reported correctly by the program or the motherboard's chipset or the cpu heatsink is not seated properly.

If you had a 65-70 degree cpu for an hour or so then you could check if also the heatsink gets hot. If it is seated properly heatsink temp should be quite hot. Try feeling temp close to base then go higher.

I don't think anyone can be sure and you never know maybe there is a problem with your heatsink's heatpipes, if you can try another cooler go ahead.
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March 7, 2013 9:52:29 AM

Monty_Python said:
Just hit 71c-80c while watching a YouTube vid in 480p, I've noticed when that happens all the fans kick in and there's an increasing wooshing noise before the temps stabilize, could it be because the fans are being controlled automatically instead of being full RPM that the CPU temps are high?? Just a suggestion...


You need to adjust your fan control curve. You fans should be on at least on a low RPM at all times. If they are only kicking in at high temps something is wrong.
March 7, 2013 10:09:38 AM

There is a six speed manual fan speed controller on that case. In what speed are you operating it ? I don't think they are automatic as you suggest unless you refer to GPU and cpu fans...
March 7, 2013 11:00:54 AM

The fans do work and operate while the machine is on, because the mobo and GPU temps are really good like they were before, however when the CPU hits the 70's all the fans turn up even more which is strange, there didn't seem to be much fan power when I looked in the ASUS BIOS, I'll reboot and you show you what I mean
March 7, 2013 11:08:37 AM

1st: How my setup looks now

2nd: Fan & temps in BIOS

3rd: Fan details and performance options

Are they operating too low? There was no option in the BIOS to increase them :\
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March 7, 2013 11:15:41 AM

Monty_Python said:
1st: How my setup looks now

2nd: Fan & temps in BIOS

3rd: Fan details and performance options

Are they operating too low? There was no option in the BIOS to increase them :\



I notice you have mismatching fans on the CPU cooler. Do they both operate at the same speed? You may have inefficent airflow over the fins of your CPU cooler. Also, they are both blowing toward the rear exhaust of your case correct?
March 7, 2013 11:26:24 AM

DiaSin said:
I notice you have mismatching fans on the CPU cooler. Do they both operate at the same speed? You may have inefficent airflow over the fins of your CPU cooler. Also, they are both blowing toward the rear exhaust of your case correct?


Yea, this is how the heat sink is supposed to (and has worked fine before) operate.
March 7, 2013 11:28:37 AM

This is how the heat sink works

March 7, 2013 11:31:26 AM

It's hard to tell just by putting my hand in front of the heat sink whether the air is blowing in and out of the case, or out the case and into the system (bad), there's no other way it can be installed because of the RAM clearance, so the two fans are in the correct positions
March 7, 2013 11:44:06 AM

The image above has been edited btw so you can see the principle behind the airflow ^^^

There's a 10c difference in CPU temp between RealTemp & AI Suite II, one tells me the temp is 32c while RealTeam is giving me 40c-41c??
March 7, 2013 1:17:20 PM

===================================
UPDATE:
===================================

Re-installed the heatsink for a 3rd time, checked the fans are in the correct position which they are (both are blowing air towards the rear exhaust fan)

Temps at idle with 0.8%-1.0% CPU usage were hovering around 45c

AI Suite II reads 30c CPU and Motherboard 25c, but the moment I start browsing the web they shoot back into 40's/50's :\ and launching ArmA III sends them into 90's early 100's, I've tried everything! :\ faulty chip maybe?

Notice how the fans on the heatsink are both blowing in the correct direction towards the rear exhaust?


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March 7, 2013 1:23:51 PM

RealTemp reports the peak core temperature for each core. AI Suite does not. AI Suite gets its temperature data from a different sensor which is significantly cooler than the peak core temperature.

Intel bases thermal throttling and thermal shut down on the peak core temperature. The temperature number that AI Suite reports is useless information. It's designed for consumers that get scared when they find out what their peak core temperature really is.

AMD does not position their temperature sensors on the hottest spots on the core like Intel does so you can not compare Intel core temperatures with AMD CPU temperatures.

I have never been a big fan of the pea sized thermal paste method and that method is not appropriate for any of the Core i CPUs. Arctic Silver recommends a vertical line.

http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appmeth/int/vl/intel_ap...

Core temperatures that instantly jump a significant amount are usually a good sign that you didn't put enough thermal paste on or you didn't attach your heatsink correctly.

The version of RealTemp you are using is for the 6 core CPUs. If you scroll up, you will find a link to a version for your Ivy Bridge CPU. The T|I Edition also reports the CPU Package temperature which is new for the second and third generation Core i CPUs.

For testing, fully load your CPU with Prime95.

http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft/

When you install the program, there is no need to join anything. Tell it you just want to do some stress testing. Your CPU will get hot but you should have no problem running the Small FFT test or the Blend Test without your CPU going nuclear.

March 7, 2013 1:48:14 PM

unclewebb said:
RealTemp reports the peak core temperature for each core. AI Suite does not. AI Suite gets its temperature data from a different sensor which is significantly cooler than the peak core temperature.

Intel bases thermal throttling and thermal shut down on the peak core temperature. The temperature number that AI Suite reports is useless information. It's designed for consumers that get scared when they find out what their peak core temperature really is.

AMD does not position their temperature sensors on the hottest spots on the core like Intel does so you can not compare Intel core temperatures with AMD CPU temperatures.

I have never been a big fan of the pea sized thermal paste method and that method is not appropriate for any of the Core i CPUs. Arctic Silver recommends a vertical line.

http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appmeth/int/vl/intel_ap...

Core temperatures that instantly jump a significant amount are usually a good sign that you didn't put enough thermal paste on or you didn't attach your heatsink correctly.

The version of RealTemp you are using is for the 6 core CPUs. If you scroll up, you will find a link to a version for your Ivy Bridge CPU. The T|I Edition also reports the CPU Package temperature which is new for the second and third generation Core i CPUs.

For testing, fully load your CPU with Prime95.

http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft/

When you install the program, there is no need to join anything. Tell it you just want to do some stress testing. Your CPU will get hot but you should have no problem running the Small FFT test or the Blend Test without your CPU going nuclear.


Thanks for clarifying that for me :)  even with AMD's misplaced CPU heat sensors my CPU never reached 42c - 47c just browsing the web, and with a quality heatsink such as Noctua, I'm quite surprised in the massive difference between the Ivybridge and Bulldozer FX, I'm not sure what could be at fault :\ heat sink has been re-installed 3 times and I added new thermal paste this morning (Pea-shaped method) and no difference, a heatsink that was working perfectly just 5 days ago doesn't strike me as the main problem, but the chances of Intel releasing a suspect over heating chip are also very unlikely!

I may try the line method that you suggested, (I'm running low on thermal paste having applied it 2 times already) and see if it makes a difference, if not I'll purchase a new heatsink which will hopefully determine whether the temps were Noctua's problem or a CPU problem :\
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March 7, 2013 2:12:59 PM

u can use the cooler that came with the proceesor... just for testing purpose, no need to buy new one... (they usually came with thermal paste already applied)
March 7, 2013 2:25:26 PM

Why don't you try the stock cooler and report back here? Maybe you are missing something while installing the noctua one. I just read the manual and it seems quite challenging when you look at it...
March 7, 2013 2:53:12 PM

===================================
UPDATE:
===================================

Thanks for your patience guys! :)  I've re-applied the thermal paste AND re-installed the heat sink for a 4th time using the *LINE* method this time, I noticed when I took the heat sink off, the thermal paste was STILL in the small pea-dot shape (Obviously it hadn't spread) which led me to.....

1. Clean the old thermal paste off again on CPU & Heat sink.

2. Apply the new LINE method about 1/2 mm thick across CPU

3. Force hold the heatsink down on the cpu until the screws were aligned (Not as bad as it sounds I assure you).

4. Put more pressure than normal down on the screws as I tightened them (Whilst forcing the heatsink down with my hands)

5. Make sure the screws were in place until they fixed rock solid but still enough to undo in the future.

Once booted all cores are now mid/low/high 20's, only cores #0 and #3 reaching 30c rarely, looks a LOT better! No core is reaching above 30c no matter what website I visit or what normal application I run

Have a look for yourselves:



Now to see if it sky rockets to 100c when I launch a game! Fingers crossed :) 

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March 7, 2013 4:22:57 PM

If the TIM hasn't spread, I would say you have a contact problem. The surfaces are not mating properly. Or have not applied enough.
March 7, 2013 5:21:59 PM

I think there could be a contact problem, the heatsink is perfectly positioned over the screws (I've fitted it at least 4 times today) and the screws that hold the heat sink in place are rock solid, the heatsink itself is like a rock that hardly moves, so I know it's secured and fastened correctly, so how can there be a gap preventing contact?
March 7, 2013 5:22:16 PM

I think there could be a contact problem, the heatsink is perfectly positioned over the screws (I've fitted it at least 4 times today) and the screws that hold the heat sink in place are rock solid, the heatsink itself is like a rock that hardly moves, so I know it's secured and fastened correctly, so how can there be a gap preventing contact?
March 7, 2013 5:43:02 PM

Apologies for the repeat post, I run ArmA III again with temps pushing 77c-80c still an unacceptable leel, 28c-33c idle I can tolerate, but gaming temps are simply too high :( 

kinda sucks buying an i7 only to find out I can't use it in case the temps start climbing into the late 70's :\ replacing the heat sink won't really make much difference I feel...
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March 7, 2013 5:45:49 PM

Perhaps a slight concavity or convexity to the cooler base? Or the processor heat spreader? Test it by adding a double size pea (or stripe) of TIM and see if temps drop any. Then see if the pea/stripe has spread out over the area shown in the Arctic instructions I sent you for your processor.

But be careful no AS5 leaks unto the board. AS5 is conductive.
March 7, 2013 5:55:15 PM

I tried the pea method a few hours ago as suggest by some of the other users, temps didn't change but when I took the heat sink off the compound had not spread over the CPU, but instead just a tiny pea shaped blob was smeared in the middle, hence why I tried the line method, I think this suggests some lack of contact between the cooler base and CPU (even if it's a tiny space).

When my temps start pushing 70c in game a lot of my fans start whooshing like they are being turned up to cool the system down, if this is automatic fan control then it may be limiting my CPU fan speeds :\
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March 7, 2013 6:23:27 PM

Monty_Python said:
I tried the pea method a few hours ago as suggest by some of the other users, temps didn't change but when I took the heat sink off the compound had not spread over the CPU, but instead just a tiny pea shaped blob was smeared in the middle, hence why I tried the line method, I think this suggests some lack of contact between the cooler base and CPU (even if it's a tiny space).

When my temps start pushing 70c in game a lot of my fans start whooshing like they are being turned up to cool the system down, if this is automatic fan control then it may be limiting my CPU fan speeds :\

Yes, the CPU overheated and the fan increased speed. That's why I said to test if a double sized amount of TIM would spread enough to cover the cores' area of the heat spreader. The pea method would work OK for this. This isn't a fix, just a test. If the TIM then spreads out like shown in the Arctic instructions, you are at least covering the cores' area. Your temps should come down. But the solution would be to get a different cooler or RMA the processor for replacement depending on which had the problem.
March 7, 2013 6:57:02 PM

*Sigh* :(  I suppose I'll have to take the heat sink off again to see if the previous line method spread like in the Artic Silver diagram, if it hasn't spread across the CPU then I may have to try a new heat sink, there's nothing that could possibly cause a gap though, the heat sink is screwed in solid tight & secure despite the fiddly heat sink mounting instructions, I still don't think it would reduce contact with the cooler base & CPU :\

I've got a feeling that a new heat sink & CPU still wouldn't solve it..... fml ¬_¬

The stock fan temps are probably the same as my temps now 34c-33c idle, to notice a difference between the Notcua, the stock fan would need to constantly idle in the 20's (which is what the Noctua should be doing now). I doubt the stock fan would greatly reduce the temps :\

Just looked through the mobo manual and changed all of the fans (including the CPU fans) to "Turbo". They were all set to "standard" which allows the computer to automatically adjust fans based on CPU temp, despite turbo the CPU temps haven't changed.
March 7, 2013 7:06:29 PM

Temps are still erratic too, just gone up to 70c, then 52c, now 45c, back up to 60c again for a split second, it's got to be either a conductive issue or thermal paste even though i've tried the pea method, spread method & line method all to no avail...
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March 7, 2013 7:30:35 PM

Just looking thru the manual for your cooler. It looks like there are several places where a person could have gone wrong during the assembly and mounting. Are you 100% confident you did as instructed? Especially in choosing the correct orientation/positioning mounting bar (step 4)? Curved side up on the mtg bar? Correct holes (1155,1156, 1366, 775)?

When you tighten the cooler to its base, does it pull up tight to the CPU, or does it pull up tight against something slightly before contacting the CPU?
March 7, 2013 7:43:06 PM

Yea, I've had this cooler for almost a year now and installed it fine numerous times on my previous FX 8120 chip, there's no way I couldn't install the mounting bars the wrong way or the heat sink wouldn't fit, the mounting bars HAVE to be curved upside or you can't fit any cooler at all.

There is no 1155 hole on the mounting brackets just 1156 which I was told is exactly the same, the mounting screws went through the middle (through the 1156 hole) or else the mounting bar screws wouldn't match up with the screw holes.

There's no way of telling if the cooler pulls tight on the CPU when I screw it in, all I feel is the screws getting tighter and tighter until I make them solid, and the heat sink itself doesn't move an inch, and when I push it down on the CPU the heat sink hardly moves meaning there can't be a gap between cooling platform and CPU :\ it's as firm as it can possibly be, and I've made sure that the screws are going ALL THE WAY into the screw holes and that they are aligned with the mounting screw holes, is there any way of checking for clearance or a gap between heat sink and CPU??
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March 7, 2013 8:03:51 PM

You could take a straight edge and move it across the heat sync's surface and then the CPU's surface and see if it shows any concavity. But I would think that it would be a really obvious dent if it left a circular glob where the 'pea' was located. As you are aware, the TIM should have been smeared out in a flat circle from compression and heat.

I'm almost thinking the cooler is somehow tightening itself to the mtg assembly before fully contacting the CPU's heat spreader.
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March 7, 2013 8:07:45 PM

(Dang, I can never edit here)
You could go to the extra work of removing the MB from the case and put it on a work surface. Then you can maybe get a visual on the contact between CPU and cooler... and anything that is obstructing it from mating properly.
!