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no time limit servers

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Anonymous
June 14, 2005 7:28:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

evidently, gamespy is now blocking "no time limit" servers. at least the
servers they've found. there's lots of discussion about this issue on
several web forums, including ea's uk website. no explanation has been
given and there's logical arguments on both sides of the table.

honestly, with all of the great options DICE has built into the game, i
don't think 12 minutes is enough time to get things together. there's
much to see and much to do, with 12 minutes, i don't think there's
enough time. as for the MEC side, it's extremely difficult for that team
to win, based on the limited amount of time.

on the other hand, DICE wants to give people a taste. ok, fine. however,
i don't think folks would want to limit themselves to playing just the
demo, over and over, when there's only one map.

the game is awesome. an extended amount of time will allow folks to see
this. limiting the time doesn't give folks enough time to see all
aspects of the game.



/CF

More about : time limit servers

Anonymous
June 14, 2005 10:32:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

I think Dice/EA releasing a demo was a mistake. For argument purposes,
out of 10 people, they've probably convinced at least three not to buy
the game. If the demo had not been released the mystery and awe would
have enveloped the entire 10.

I would have personally released the demo after the release date of the
retail version, but then again, I'm only a money mongrel mastermind.

Tilli Un Grey
June 14, 2005 10:57:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

"Colonel Flagg" <colonel_flagg@NOSOUPFORJ00_internetwarzone.org> wrote in
message news:MPG.1d18513a42ebcfe2989689@127.0.0.1...
> evidently, gamespy is now blocking "no time limit" servers. at least the
> servers they've found. there's lots of discussion about this issue on
> several web forums, including ea's uk website.

Ah, that explains why there were about 4 or 5 dozen of these servers over
the weekend but when I went to play last night, I only found about 10.

I can see Dice/EA's point: they want it to be a demo. i.e., you play it to
bet a feel for the game; it's not intended to be a practice map for us to
have our skills all honed on release day. On the other hand, though,
there's a lot to see and do, a lot of options to play with, etc., and 12
mins just isnt enough time.
Related resources
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:48:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

Not at all, I think at least 9 of the 10 will probably still buy the
full game. The advantage of the demo, is that it allows people to test
the performance of their setup prior to buying the game. I think that
part of the reason that BFV didn't do as well as BF1942 was due to the
lack of a demo (as well as bug issues and a big BF1942 community).
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 12:14:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 03:28:55 -0400, Colonel Flagg
<colonel_flagg@NOSOUPFORJ00_internetwarzone.org> wrote:

>evidently, gamespy is now blocking "no time limit" servers. at least the
>servers they've found. there's lots of discussion about this issue on
>several web forums, including ea's uk website. no explanation has been
>given and there's logical arguments on both sides of the table.
>
>honestly, with all of the great options DICE has built into the game, i
>don't think 12 minutes is enough time to get things together. there's
>much to see and much to do, with 12 minutes, i don't think there's
>enough time. as for the MEC side, it's extremely difficult for that team
>to win, based on the limited amount of time.
>
>on the other hand, DICE wants to give people a taste. ok, fine. however,
>i don't think folks would want to limit themselves to playing just the
>demo, over and over, when there's only one map.
>
>the game is awesome. an extended amount of time will allow folks to see
>this. limiting the time doesn't give folks enough time to see all
>aspects of the game.
>
>
>
>/CF
>
IMO, they made a mistake in limiting the time in the first place,
their potential customers are taking reasonable liberties with their
(Dice) property. In this case, the people they're in an
overgeneralized way, their moding community. IMO, Dice's time and
money would be better spent promoting the game and insuring a positive
experience.

I've always looked at demos as advertising (the good kind, the way it
should always be) as it is a technology test. By limiting features
they've soured just a bit my experience with the game and the company.

We are their customers, if I don't like the game or how I'm being
treated I won't support the company.



It almost seems they've choosen player rankings at the expense of
gameplay.
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 12:18:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

On 14 Jun 2005 06:32:01 -0700, tilli@santoonie.com wrote:

>
>
>I think Dice/EA releasing a demo was a mistake. For argument purposes,
>out of 10 people, they've probably convinced at least three not to buy
>the game. If the demo had not been released the mystery and awe would
>have enveloped the entire 10.
>
>I would have personally released the demo after the release date of the
>retail version, but then again, I'm only a money mongrel mastermind.
>
>Tilli Un Grey
>
You'd spend 90 bucks on something that may not run on your machine and
a product that you can't return?
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 12:24:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:14:47 GMT, Hillbilly <Hill.B@shadowrealm.net>
wrote:

>IMO, they made a mistake in limiting the time in the first place,
>their potential customers are taking reasonable liberties with their
>(Dice) property. In this case, the people they're in an
>overgeneralized way, their moding community. IMO, Dice's time and
>money would be better spent promoting the game and insuring a positive
>experience.
>
IMO, they made a mistake in limiting the time in the first place.
That their potential customers are taking reasonable liberties with
Dice's property. And the people that they're hurting (in an
overgeneralized way) is their moding community. IMO, Dice's time and
money would be better spent promoting the game and insuring a positive
experience.
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 1:59:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

In article <27dua11u3eve6fi4jlr15p2ha25jpr7b7k@4ax.com>,
Hill.B@shadowrealm.net says...
> IMO, they made a mistake in limiting the time in the first place,
> their potential customers are taking reasonable liberties with their
> (Dice) property. In this case, the people they're in an
> overgeneralized way, their moding community. IMO, Dice's time and
> money would be better spent promoting the game and insuring a positive
> experience.
>
> I've always looked at demos as advertising (the good kind, the way it
> should always be) as it is a technology test. By limiting features
> they've soured just a bit my experience with the game and the company.
>
> We are their customers, if I don't like the game or how I'm being
> treated I won't support the company.
>
>
>
> It almost seems they've choosen player rankings at the expense of
> gameplay.
>
>
>


actually, we, the server admins/owners are not modify DICE's property as
they've allowed the time limit to be simply modified by editting a
plain-text-file. we did not modify any source code or reverse engineer
anything to do it. furthermore, DICE/EA have both proclaimed BF2 to be a
game that will enable more "mod'ing" than any other game. their
intentions are aimed at modders. also, DICE/EA did not say that we could
not mod the time limit.



/CF
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 6:20:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

I'm sure there's a clause buried somewhere in the massive legal waiver
that everyone has to accept when installing the software which
specifically stops people from changing the source code. I'm also sure
that any supplied file, in whatever format binary or ASCII will be
considered a source file by EA. So technically, changing any supplied
file will probably break the terms of the software agreement!

I'm sure that technically, all the mods previously put out also broke
these terms, but EA were canny enough to understand that modding
extended the shelf life of their products for no extra cost. Example,
BF1942 stayed at full retail price in the UK for 2 years+, most other
games price drop 50% within 6 months! The only problem with this, is
that future BF2 sales may be stolen by people deciding to keep BF1942 +
DC, and not upgrading.....

I think EA are silly to put the time limit in, just because it's so
damn easy to change! If they don't want people tinkering, then they
should have buried it in some other configuration file.....
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 7:26:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:59:09 -0400, Colonel Flagg
<colonel_flagg@NOSOUPFORJ00_internetwarzone.org> wrote:

>In article <27dua11u3eve6fi4jlr15p2ha25jpr7b7k@4ax.com>,
>Hill.B@shadowrealm.net says...
>> IMO, they made a mistake in limiting the time in the first place,
>> their potential customers are taking reasonable liberties with their
>> (Dice) property. In this case, the people they're in an
>> overgeneralized way, their moding community. IMO, Dice's time and
>> money would be better spent promoting the game and insuring a positive
>> experience.
>>
>> I've always looked at demos as advertising (the good kind, the way it
>> should always be) as it is a technology test. By limiting features
>> they've soured just a bit my experience with the game and the company.
>>
>> We are their customers, if I don't like the game or how I'm being
>> treated I won't support the company.
>>
>>
>>
>> It almost seems they've choosen player rankings at the expense of
>> gameplay.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>actually, we, the server admins/owners are not modify DICE's property as
>they've allowed the time limit to be simply modified by editting a
>plain-text-file. we did not modify any source code or reverse engineer
>anything to do it. furthermore, DICE/EA have both proclaimed BF2 to be a
>game that will enable more "mod'ing" than any other game. their
>intentions are aimed at modders. also, DICE/EA did not say that we could
>not mod the time limit.
>
>
>
>/CF
>
I was attempting to point out gamespy not carrying the notimelimit
servers.


I'm a bit of a quake junkie (likes to play with mapping, source and
models). I'm impressed how DICE organized things in their games (I
looked for the first time when looking for the time *hack*). The end
of this summer I think I'll pick up Battlefield for a while, if
nothing else, I'll learn something new. DICE seems to have made a
hackers dream

Maybe, if not already done, it might be nice to see the introduction
of a Seal team with a map or two in order to highlight stragedy.
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 7:37:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 03:26:41 GMT, Hillbilly <Hill.B@shadowrealm.net>
wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:59:09 -0400, Colonel Flagg
><colonel_flagg@NOSOUPFORJ00_internetwarzone.org> wrote:
>
>>In article <27dua11u3eve6fi4jlr15p2ha25jpr7b7k@4ax.com>,
>>Hill.B@shadowrealm.net says...
>>> IMO, they made a mistake in limiting the time in the first place,
>>> their potential customers are taking reasonable liberties with their
>>> (Dice) property. In this case, the people they're in an
>>> overgeneralized way, their moding community. IMO, Dice's time and
>>> money would be better spent promoting the game and insuring a positive
>>> experience.
>>>
>>> I've always looked at demos as advertising (the good kind, the way it
>>> should always be) as it is a technology test. By limiting features
>>> they've soured just a bit my experience with the game and the company.
>>>
>>> We are their customers, if I don't like the game or how I'm being
>>> treated I won't support the company.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It almost seems they've choosen player rankings at the expense of
>>> gameplay.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>actually, we, the server admins/owners are not modify DICE's property as
>>they've allowed the time limit to be simply modified by editting a
>>plain-text-file. we did not modify any source code or reverse engineer
>>anything to do it. furthermore, DICE/EA have both proclaimed BF2 to be a
>>game that will enable more "mod'ing" than any other game. their
>>intentions are aimed at modders. also, DICE/EA did not say that we could
>>not mod the time limit.
>>
>>
>>
>>/CF
>>
>I was attempting to point out gamespy not carrying the notimelimit
>servers.
>
>
>I'm a bit of a quake junkie (likes to play with mapping, source and
>models). I'm impressed how DICE organized things in their games (I
>looked for the first time when looking for the time *hack*). The end
>of this summer I think I'll pick up Battlefield for a while, if
>nothing else, I'll learn something new. DICE seems to have made a
>hackers dream
>
>Maybe, if not already done, it might be nice to see the introduction
>of a Seal team with a map or two in order to highlight stragedy.
>
heh, non-combat NPC's and bad PR for casualties. Probably tasteless,
eh?
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 11:23:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

>>actually, we, the server admins/owners are not modify DICE's property
as
>>they've allowed the time limit to be simply modified by editting a
>>plain-text-file. we did not modify any source code or reverse
engineer
>>anything to do it. furthermore, DICE/EA have both proclaimed BF2 to
be a
>>game that will enable more "mod'ing" than any other game. their
>>intentions are aimed at modders. also, DICE/EA did not say that we
could
>>not mod the time limit.
>>
>>
>>
>>/CF
>>
>I was attempting to point out gamespy not carrying the notimelimit
>servers.


This is quoted from the Community Updates on EA's official BF2 website.


The demo's feature set included a 12-minute time limit on rounds and
excluded access to the weapon unlocks. Because some server operators
have hacked the time limit out of their servers or hacked access to the
unlocks, we have been forced to reinforce our intended feature set by
delisting the offending servers. All violations of the EULA as
described above will result in a 1-week ban/delisting.


--
Skclown

'' (http://www.tdgamers.com/)
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 1:57:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

Obviously, they don't want too many people to play for free instead of
buying the proper game....
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 4:12:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

Skclown wrote:
>>>actually, we, the server admins/owners are not modify DICE's property
>
> as
>
>>>they've allowed the time limit to be simply modified by editting a
>>>plain-text-file. we did not modify any source code or reverse
>
> engineer
>
>>>anything to do it. furthermore, DICE/EA have both proclaimed BF2 to
>
> be a
>
>>>game that will enable more "mod'ing" than any other game. their
>>>intentions are aimed at modders. also, DICE/EA did not say that we
>
> could
>
>>>not mod the time limit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>/CF
>>>
>>
>>I was attempting to point out gamespy not carrying the notimelimit
>>servers.
>
>
>
> This is quoted from the Community Updates on EA's official BF2 website.
>
>
> The demo's feature set included a 12-minute time limit on rounds and
> excluded access to the weapon unlocks. Because some server operators
> have hacked the time limit out of their servers or hacked access to the
> unlocks, we have been forced to reinforce our intended feature set by
> delisting the offending servers. All violations of the EULA as
> described above will result in a 1-week ban/delisting.
>
>
Hyperbole, they won't actually take any action, and by the time it could
come to a head the game itself will be out and this will be a dead
issue....I seriously doubt they care about time/unlock hacks for a demo.
At least more then in a general way, they have to say 'something' if
asked and make it sound as if there are teeth in their pronouncements
but...They just don't care.
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 4:22:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

tangerine_sedge wrote:
> Obviously, they don't want too many people to play for free instead of
> buying the proper game....
>
no one could long stand the gulf of oman map over and over ad infinitum.
Hell, if they delay the game beyond the 22nd of june they had better
release another map for the demo to avoid pissing off the fan base. They
know there is no real danger to their bottom line from the demo, quite
the reverse. The real danger as I said is giving it to us and then not
giving us something else, preferably the game, or an expansion to the
demo very soon, by the end of next week at the latest actually. They
have peaked alot of interest among new to the series gamers but their
interest will wane if it isn't continually whetted. There are after all
about six or eight competitor's out their with similiar material.....THe
key for ea now is to deliver on the things promised. Frankly when you
buy the game if their isn't a patch already available on the official
site then well I think it will tank as the thousands of beta..I mean
demo testers will and have posted some serious balance and techical
issues that they will- even must address.
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 7:29:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 03:26:41 GMT, Hillbilly <Hill.B@shadowrealm.net>
wrote:

>DICE seems to have made a hackers dream
>
That's the Linux terminology of hacker and not somebody trying to spy,
destroy or steal information.

A Linux hacker is someone who throws themselves into something they
know little about and hacks at (plays) with things until they've get
an idea of what goes where and why it happens.

Extremely and easily modifiable would have been a better description.
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 8:28:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

In article <mkZre.1929$fV.1162@okepread06>, OldChieftain@hotmailSPAM.com
says...
> Skclown wrote:
> >>>actually, we, the server admins/owners are not modify DICE's property
> >
> > as
> >
> >>>they've allowed the time limit to be simply modified by editting a
> >>>plain-text-file. we did not modify any source code or reverse
> >
> > engineer
> >
> >>>anything to do it. furthermore, DICE/EA have both proclaimed BF2 to
> >
> > be a
> >
> >>>game that will enable more "mod'ing" than any other game. their
> >>>intentions are aimed at modders. also, DICE/EA did not say that we
> >
> > could
> >
> >>>not mod the time limit.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>/CF
> >>>
> >>
> >>I was attempting to point out gamespy not carrying the notimelimit
> >>servers.
> >
> >
> >
> > This is quoted from the Community Updates on EA's official BF2 website.
> >
> >
> > The demo's feature set included a 12-minute time limit on rounds and
> > excluded access to the weapon unlocks. Because some server operators
> > have hacked the time limit out of their servers or hacked access to the
> > unlocks, we have been forced to reinforce our intended feature set by
> > delisting the offending servers. All violations of the EULA as
> > described above will result in a 1-week ban/delisting.
> >
> >
> Hyperbole, they won't actually take any action, and by the time it could
> come to a head the game itself will be out and this will be a dead
> issue....I seriously doubt they care about time/unlock hacks for a demo.
> At least more then in a general way, they have to say 'something' if
> asked and make it sound as if there are teeth in their pronouncements
> but...They just don't care.
>


actually, if you'll read the other threads, you'll see that the "no time
limit" servers have been removed from the gamespy listing.



/CF
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 8:39:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

In article <fuh0b1li01mdje4371sm09ttfaq5mh334h@4ax.com>,
Hill.B@shadowrealm.net says...
> On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 03:26:41 GMT, Hillbilly <Hill.B@shadowrealm.net>
> wrote:
>
> >DICE seems to have made a hackers dream
> >
> That's the Linux terminology of hacker and not somebody trying to spy,
> destroy or steal information.
>
> A Linux hacker is someone who throws themselves into something they
> know little about and hacks at (plays) with things until they've get
> an idea of what goes where and why it happens.
>
> Extremely and easily modifiable would have been a better description.
>

actually, that's the *real* definition of "hacker". the dark-side of
"Cracking" has been coined, by the media, as being a "hack" or "hacker".
the original definition of "hacking", which will never be the same
again, due to the sheep being led around by their masters, the media,
is:

(stop here if you don't want to read useless computer junk)


HACK n. 1. Originally a quick job that produces what is needed, but not
well. 2. The result of that job. 3. NEAT HACK: A clever technique. Also,
a brilliant practical joke, where neatness is correlated with
cleverness, harmlessness, and surprise value. Example: the Caltech Rose
Bowl card display switch circa 1961. 4. REAL HACK: A crock (occasionally
affectionate). v. 5. With "together", to throw something together so it
will work. 6. To bear emotionally or physically. "I can't hack this
heat!" 7. To work on something (typically a program). In specific sense:
"What are you doing?" "I'm hacking TECO." In general sense: "What do you
do around here?" "I hack TECO." (The former is time-immediate, the
latter time-extended.) More generally, "I hack x" is roughly equivalent
to "x is my bag". "I hack solid-state physics." 8. To pull a prank on.
See definition 3 and HACKER (def #6). 9. v.i. To waste time (as opposed
to TOOL). "Watcha up to?" "Oh, just hacking." 10. HACK UP (ON): To hack,
but generally implies that the result is meanings 1-2. 11. HACK VALUE:
Term used as the reason or motivation for expending effort toward a
seemingly useless goal, the point being that the accomplished goal is a
hack. For example, MacLISP has code to read and print roman numerals,
which was installed purely for hack value. HAPPY HACKING: A farewell.
HOW'S HACKING?: A friendly greeting among hackers. HACK HACK: A somewhat
pointless but friendly comment, often used as a temporary farewell. [The
word HACK doesn't really have 69 different meanings. In fact, HACK has
only one meaning, an extremely subtle and profound one which defies
articulation. Which connotation a given HACK-token has depends in
similarly profound ways on the context. Similar comments apply to a
couple other hacker jargon items, most notably RANDOM. - Agre]

HACKER [originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] n. 1. A
person who enjoys learning the details of programming systems and how to
stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users who prefer to learn
only the minimum necessary. 2. One who programs enthusiastically, or who
enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming. 3. A
person capable of appreciating hack value (q.v.). 4. A person who is
good at programming quickly. Not everything a hacker produces is a hack.
5. An expert at a particular program, or one who frequently does work
using it or on it; example: "A SAIL hacker". (Definitions 1 to 5 are
correlated, and people who fit them congregate.) 6. A malicious or
inquisitive meddler who tries to discover information by poking around.
Hence "password hacker", "network hacker".


Only in definition #6 will you find the definition you're looking for.

Then again, there's several variances of #6, "whitehat", "greyhat" and
"blackhat", where "blackhat" is of the illegal variety and "greyhat"
walks a very thin line.




/CF
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 9:04:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

tangerine_sedge wrote
>I think EA are silly to put the time limit in, just because it's so
>damn easy to change! If they don't want people tinkering, then they
>should have buried it in some other configuration file.....

Its daft, all that was required was a change to one of the config files.
You can edit the bleedin thing in Notepad! Why do they put these
parameters in config files if they don't want to give people the option
of changing them? It isn't a hack or a crack, its a variable server
setting just like the setting which switches TK on or off.

This whole ranked servers business and now news that Gamespy are
blocking servers that have unlocked the time limit stinks, who knows
what kind of scams they are going to pull in the future?

--
[AGB]Villy Vonka
Sheffield, UK
http://www.agbgaming.com
Anonymous
June 15, 2005 10:30:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

actually, that's the *real* definition of "hacker". the dark-side of
"Cracking" has been coined, by the media, as being a "hack" or
"hacker".
the original definition of "hacking", which will never be the same
again, due to the sheep being led around by their masters, the media,
is:

(stop here if you don't want to read useless computer junk)


HACK n. 1. Originally a quick job that produces what is needed, but not
well. 2. The result of that job. 3. NEAT HACK: A clever technique.
Also,
a brilliant practical joke, where neatness is correlated with
cleverness, harmlessness, and surprise value. Example: the Caltech Rose
Bowl card display switch circa 1961. 4. REAL HACK: A crock
(occasionally
affectionate). v. 5. With "together", to throw something together so it
will work. 6. To bear emotionally or physically. "I can't hack this
heat!" 7. To work on something (typically a program). In specific
sense:
"What are you doing?" "I'm hacking TECO." In general sense: "What do
you
do around here?" "I hack TECO." (The former is time-immediate, the
latter time-extended.) More generally, "I hack x" is roughly equivalent
to "x is my bag". "I hack solid-state physics." 8. To pull a prank on.
See definition 3 and HACKER (def #6). 9. v.i. To waste time (as opposed
to TOOL). "Watcha up to?" "Oh, just hacking." 10. HACK UP (ON): To
hack,
but generally implies that the result is meanings 1-2. 11. HACK VALUE:
Term used as the reason or motivation for expending effort toward a
seemingly useless goal, the point being that the accomplished goal is a
hack. For example, MacLISP has code to read and print roman numerals,
which was installed purely for hack value. HAPPY HACKING: A farewell.
HOW'S HACKING?: A friendly greeting among hackers. HACK HACK: A
somewhat
pointless but friendly comment, often used as a temporary farewell.
[The
word HACK doesn't really have 69 different meanings. In fact, HACK has
only one meaning, an extremely subtle and profound one which defies
articulation. Which connotation a given HACK-token has depends in
similarly profound ways on the context. Similar comments apply to a
couple other hacker jargon items, most notably RANDOM. - Agre]

HACKER [originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] n. 1. A
person who enjoys learning the details of programming systems and how
to
stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users who prefer to
learn
only the minimum necessary. 2. One who programs enthusiastically, or
who
enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming. 3. A
person capable of appreciating hack value (q.v.). 4. A person who is
good at programming quickly. Not everything a hacker produces is a
hack.
5. An expert at a particular program, or one who frequently does work
using it or on it; example: "A SAIL hacker". (Definitions 1 to 5 are
correlated, and people who fit them congregate.) 6. A malicious or
inquisitive meddler who tries to discover information by poking around.
Hence "password hacker", "network hacker".


Only in definition #6 will you find the definition you're looking for.

Then again, there's several variances of #6, "whitehat", "greyhat" and
"blackhat", where "blackhat" is of the illegal variety and "greyhat"
walks a very thin line.




/CF

You know it's funny... I had meatloaf for lunch today... strangest
thing...
oops.. are we getting off topic? my bad...


--
Skclown

'' (http://www.tdgamers.com/)
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 4:56:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

In article <1118875137.fe33fb032aa20aafde9b90c045889fed@teranews>,
Skclown.1qow0m@no-mx.Usenet-gateway says...

> (stop here if you don't want to read useless computer junk)
>


i see you can't read a "line by line" discussion.



/CF
June 18, 2005 7:22:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.battlefield1942 (More info?)

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:39:10 -0400, Colonel Flagg
<colonel_flagg@NOSOUPFORJ00_internetwarzone.org> wrote:

>
>actually, that's the *real* definition of "hacker". the dark-side of
>"Cracking" has been coined, by the media, as being a "hack" or "hacker".
>the original definition of "hacking", which will never be the same
>again, due to the sheep being led around by their masters, the media,
>is:
>
>(stop here if you don't want to read useless computer junk)
>
>
>HACK n. 1. Originally a quick job that produces what is needed, but not
>well. 2. The result of that job. 3. NEAT HACK: A clever technique. Also,
>a brilliant practical joke, where neatness is correlated with
>cleverness, harmlessness, and surprise value. Example: the Caltech Rose
>Bowl card display switch circa 1961. 4. REAL HACK: A crock (occasionally
>affectionate). v. 5. With "together", to throw something together so it
>will work. 6. To bear emotionally or physically. "I can't hack this
>heat!" 7. To work on something (typically a program). In specific sense:
>"What are you doing?" "I'm hacking TECO." In general sense: "What do you
>do around here?" "I hack TECO." (The former is time-immediate, the
>latter time-extended.) More generally, "I hack x" is roughly equivalent
>to "x is my bag". "I hack solid-state physics." 8. To pull a prank on.
>See definition 3 and HACKER (def #6). 9. v.i. To waste time (as opposed
>to TOOL). "Watcha up to?" "Oh, just hacking." 10. HACK UP (ON): To hack,
>but generally implies that the result is meanings 1-2. 11. HACK VALUE:
>Term used as the reason or motivation for expending effort toward a
>seemingly useless goal, the point being that the accomplished goal is a
>hack. For example, MacLISP has code to read and print roman numerals,
>which was installed purely for hack value. HAPPY HACKING: A farewell.
>HOW'S HACKING?: A friendly greeting among hackers. HACK HACK: A somewhat
>pointless but friendly comment, often used as a temporary farewell. [The
>word HACK doesn't really have 69 different meanings. In fact, HACK has
>only one meaning, an extremely subtle and profound one which defies
>articulation. Which connotation a given HACK-token has depends in
>similarly profound ways on the context. Similar comments apply to a
>couple other hacker jargon items, most notably RANDOM. - Agre]
>
>HACKER [originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] n. 1. A
>person who enjoys learning the details of programming systems and how to
>stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users who prefer to learn
>only the minimum necessary. 2. One who programs enthusiastically, or who
>enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming. 3. A
>person capable of appreciating hack value (q.v.). 4. A person who is
>good at programming quickly. Not everything a hacker produces is a hack.
>5. An expert at a particular program, or one who frequently does work
>using it or on it; example: "A SAIL hacker". (Definitions 1 to 5 are
>correlated, and people who fit them congregate.) 6. A malicious or
>inquisitive meddler who tries to discover information by poking around.
>Hence "password hacker", "network hacker".
>
heh, well said.
!