Gaming System Definition

[giltyler]

I want to see exactly what components are required for a "Gaming System" build.
The lable is thrown around on builds for $300.00 to $5k plus so what are thoughts on what it takes to actually game.
This is meant to be a discussion type thread. Any sugestions should play modern games at average FPS

 

[masterasia]

You need a badass CPU, a badass GPU, a badass MB, a ton of ram, a decent size PSU, SSDs, water cooling for overclocking. and of course, a badass case.

 

[Deemo13]

This might be an odd question masterasia, but does the Radeon HD 5950 exist?

 

[Someone Somewhere]

No, it doesn't IIRC. Only 5900 series is the 5970 which is 2x5870 on one board (like 6990).

Back on topic, most of those things are wrong. An i3 currently won't bottleneck pretty much any video card, mobo doesn't make much difference except when OCing, 8GB is plenty of RAM, SSDs don't much help with gaming, closed loop liquid cooling is pretty useless, and case is only a matter of cooling. GPU and PSU are the most important aspects to get right usually.

 

[wr6133]

Gaming PC is one that concentrates the purchase power of it's budget towards gaming performance.

So it spends all it can on the GPU and attempts to purchase balanced components to fit around that.

That could mean a Pentium with a 7770 if that's all the budget allows or it could be an i5 with a GTX680

In my opinion it stops being a gaming machine when SSD's, bling lighting or high end CPU's take the place of getting higher end GPU's

 

[Someone Somewhere]

IMO any system is a gaming system. We're just arguing about a good gaming system.

I disagree that a system isn't for gaming when you add an SSD though. An SSD will greatly improve user experience even if not actual frame rates. I still wouldn't recommend one if it meant getting anything less than a 7950 probably. Maybe a 7870.

 

[wr6133]

I didn't say an SSD stops it being a gaming machine but

In my opinion it stops being a gaming machine when SSD's, bling lighting or high end CPU's take the place of getting higher end GPU's

I stick by that, too many times I see "gaming" machines advised on these forums that consist of an i5, and an average GPU or an i5, SSD and average GPU.... In these cases the users would have gamed better at higher settings with a mechanical harddrive, Phenom II or i3 and a far better GPU. Hell there was a guy started a thread last week asking people to stroke his e-peen because he built a FX4100 based rig with a crap GPU but had spent about 1/5th of his budget on lighting and fan controllers, he was insistant it was a gaming rig and what made me laugh further was the reasoning that instead of getting a good GPU all the case bling was to encourage "customers" to spend more....

SSD's, fancy cases, decorative touches these are like cherries on the icing of the cake, if the cake is not iced first then when building a "gaming" box they are pointless. Or put this way if you spend £150 on an SSD and some case bling while your GPU only lets you play on medium settings I would say you are not building a machine dedicated to gaming (or at least not building one very well), if you were that £150 should have stepped your GPU up.

 

[Someone Somewhere]

Yes. That's my point behind trying to get at least a 7950 before getting an i5 or SSD. My point was that a system does not seem to have to be good for gaming to be called a "gaming machine"; all that means is it's the one you bought to game on.

Case in point: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229364

A GT620, B75 board, and 3570K marketed as "Gamer Xtreme".

 

[wr6133]

Case in point: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229364

A GT620, B75 board, and 3570K marketed as "Gamer Xtreme".

Noooooooooooo dont hurt my eyes!

Believe it or not theres alot worse than that marketed as gaming rigs on ebay.co.uk

It does kind of highlight my mantra though albeit in an extreme way there is a CPU people will think "ohhh wow I heard thats good" and a lit up silly case that will have similar effect when infact that is in no way a gaming machine (or not in anyway those of us in the know would define).

Sadly I bet they sell as many of those things as they can badly assemble.

 

[cats_Paw]

Gaming systems can go from 600 dollars to 30k dollars (enthusiast crazy ***).

There are so many options that the question you need to ask yourself first is what exactly do i want to do with that PC.

Its not the same making a PC for a tripple monitor Setup, each of them 30 inch, than for a 1 monitor 24 inch full HD.

A gaming system is symply considered as such when it can run 80% of current titles in medium settings with 60% of your monitor resolution.

Thats moreless the generic definition.
For me, a gaming system is a PC that can run 100% of games at at least high settings and full HD resolution.

So, what is it for you?

 

[manofchalk]

I would say that whether its a gaming rig or not comes more down to intent than actual hardware. After all, some editing rigs are more built for compute style tasks but they are used for editing (realize both are ~ the same). Then you get multiple use machines that can game and edit quite well.
Though unless you have a large budget (More than $1500), having a machine that can do all things isn't feasible. Then the spec's should more closely reflect the intent.

 

[FinneousPJ]

I agree with manofchalk. A gaming system is simply one you use for gaming.

 

[giltyler]

I started this thread due to the types of post that claim "Gaming Monster" for outdated parts. Look at a few below.

http://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/sys/3357116582.html
http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/sys/3316289155.html
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/sys/3353811936.html :lol:

 

[Someone Somewhere]

Gaming Monster... Assuming you're gaming at 320x240.

 

[wr6133]

LOL the 2nd one comes with a bundle of pirated games!

With the 2nd hand stuff you have to keep in mind some clueless turnip may have bought it 3 years ago and simply doesn't have the knowledge or acceptance that their former investment is now rubbish. I have listened to people argue till out of breath that their 9800 and core2duo sytems are still the pinnacle of gaming technology, its best to just smile, nod and walk away from those types of client/seller.

The new stuff is awful we get it alot here in the UK too on Ebay utter cr@p sold as high end gaming rigs. The tactic is normally to use a decentish CPU and everything else bargain bin or to use all junk but place huge NVIDIA logos all over their adverts along with phrases like "HIGH POWER 4 CORE BULLDOZER GAMING POWER"!

 

[manofchalk]

That's into the realm of pre-builts and second-hand rigs, where "gaming system" is just a marketing term.

That Core 2 Duo machine is actually pretty good value, but you wouldnt get it due to the old parts.

The other ones are horrible. No way I would pay $900 for an FX-4100, a 560 and what is likely a generic PSU given how the cables aren't sleeved in anyway and it not being mentioned in the specs.

 

[giltyler]

Low end Lenovo Prebuilt+GTX 550ti+cheapo PS= Gaming Monster Too Funny

 

[Kiowa789]

Yes. That's my point behind trying to get at least a 7950 before getting an i5 or SSD. My point was that a system does not seem to have to be good for gaming to be called a "gaming machine"; all that means is it's the one you bought to game on.

Case in point: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229364

A GT620, B75 board, and 3570K marketed as "Gamer Xtreme".

Well, I've been monitoring both of your arguments for a while now.
While yes, an SSD is something you should postpone on, that other bit?
This is where I have to say No, that's wrong.

Don't get atleast a 7950 before an i5.
An i5 is optimum for a gaming build, if your gaming, that is exactly what you want, settling for less on the processor because you spent more on the 7950 is ridiculous.
an I5 3570k with a 7850 2gb is fantastic if you have a budget of 700$, don't blow more than half your budget on a single Graphics card because it isn't considered a gaming build if you settle for anything less than a 7950.

 

[inveriti]

Gaming PC is one that concentrates the purchase power of it's budget towards gaming performance.

Good definition, IMO, especially when placed in opposition to a workstation or casual-use system. Usually, you optimize your part choices toward gaming performance, like the lists Tom's posts for "best gaming ______ for the money." Those lists are based exclusively on performance in-game, rather than time required to render a frame of CG animation or compress/convert a video file.

IMO, a gaming system should have a processor and motherboard chosen to limit bottlenecks with a graphics card setup sufficient to play current titles at reasonable detail at playable framerates on whatever monitor you have. The budgets variances reflect the kind of monitors you plan to game on and what you can afford. Some people blow money on 4-monitor setups and need a $5000 PC to power it. Most people have smaller budgets.

With after-market coolers providing unprecedented overclocking potential already, water cooling is superfluous unless noise and bragging rights are really important to you. Same with SSDs, UV lights and glow-in-the-dark crap. Those things won't really affect performance, especially since most monitors have 60-70 hz refresh rates. It's like buying a Dodge Viper and then putting an aftermarket air intake system and undercarriage glow kit on it. You get 15 extra horsepower and lights, but you're still driving a car with a 10-cylinder engine in it on a highway with a 70 mph speed limit. Woop-dee-doo. It's just for bragging rights.

 

[wr6133]

Well, I've been monitoring both of your arguments for a while now.
While yes, an SSD is something you should postpone on, that other bit?
This is where I have to say No, that's wrong.

Don't get atleast a 7950 before an i5.
An i5 is optimum for a gaming build, if your gaming, that is exactly what you want, settling for less on the processor because you spent more on the 7950 is ridiculous.
an I5 3570k with a 7850 2gb is fantastic if you have a budget of 700$, don't blow more than half your budget on a single Graphics card because it isn't considered a gaming build if you settle for anything less than a 7950.

Most games are GPU bound now as an i3 or even a clocked Phenom II will scarcely bottleneck a GTX670 (I know this as fact I previously had my 670 on my PhII rig) then buying an i5 and settling on a lower end GPU is going to in the majority of games give you lower framerates than a clocked PhII or an i3 where the user spent that extra £100 on a better GPU. Your 7850 example doesn;t massivley apply here it's more aimed at the multitude of people that post on this site for build help and in the OP they are pairing an i5 with something lowend like 7770, 6870 etc..... in these cases the £100 they could save on a lesser CPU and put to the GPU translates directly in to higher framerates.

 

[Kiowa789]

Most games are GPU bound now as an i3 or even a clocked Phenom II will scarcely bottleneck a GTX670 (I know this as fact I previously had my 670 on my PhII rig) then buying an i5 and settling on a lower end GPU is going to in the majority of games give you lower framerates than a clocked PhII or an i3 where the user spent that extra £100 on a better GPU. Your 7850 example doesn;t massivley apply here it's more aimed at the multitude of people that post on this site for build help and in the OP they are pairing an i5 with something lowend like 7770, 6870 etc..... in these cases the £100 they could save on a lesser CPU and put to the GPU translates directly in to higher framerates.

Here is what I'm trying to get at.
Think about this a bit more, if you are going to build a computer, you want it to be a bit upgradeable in the future correct?
I know for sure that I'm going to upgrade this computer soon, I'm just waiting till february to see what everyone has to offer.
But getting an i5 Before anything else is important, because you only have to buy it ONCE, the 3570k is the best you can get for a gaming computer right now, and it will stay that way for a ways to come.

But the GPU market is constantly changing, whats going to happen next year? by the end of January, ATI/AMD and Nvidia will have there new line up of cards announced, and new ones released.
Intel takes time with releasing their processors, which is another thing, LGA 1155 is dead/dying, LGA 2011 will be future proof, but they have yet to offer anything seriously awesome for it quite yet, this is why getting an i5 3570k is optimum choice, because its going to be a long time before Intel releases their new processors.

Spend money on the best you can get with what you have then.
Don't regret it later when you are upgrading more out of your pocket for a GPU and the CPU You wanted in the first place.

 

[wr6133]

Here is what I'm trying to get at.
Think about this a bit more, if you are going to build a computer, you want it to be a bit upgradeable in the future correct?
I know for sure that I'm going to upgrade this computer soon, I'm just waiting till february to see what everyone has to offer.
But getting an i5 Before anything else is important, because you only have to buy it ONCE, the 3570k is the best you can get for a gaming computer right now, and it will stay that way for a ways to come.

But the GPU market is constantly changing, whats going to happen next year? by the end of January, ATI/AMD and Nvidia will have there new line up of cards announced, and new ones released.
Intel takes time with releasing their processors, which is another thing, LGA 1155 is dead/dying, LGA 2011 will be future proof, but they have yet to offer anything seriously awesome for it quite yet, this is why getting an i5 3570k is optimum choice, because its going to be a long time before Intel releases their new processors.

Spend money on the best you can get with what you have then.
Don't regret it later when you are upgrading more out of your pocket for a GPU and the CPU You wanted in the first place.

Future proofing is an overused concept.

As to your CPU/GPU upgrade arguement the average guy building on a budget wants results now often these boxes are run till the end then entirely replaced.

Anyone building on an 1155 or AM3+ socket has the possibility to upgrade CPU in future if that becomes a bottleneck upgrading your £60 PhII to 8350 in 6 months time will likely cost under £150 (or your i3 to an i5), upgrading a cheap low end GPU that doesnt give the results you want from the day you bought it is going to cost £200 or more. Add the cost of the cheap GPU being replaced you could have bought a higher end GPU from day 1 and had good results (also this makes the CPU upgrade route genrally cheaper as long as you can stick to the socket). GPU's may get launched alot but a high end part now will last a while there are no shortage of GTX480 or even 470 users still happy today.

Ok in a perfect world people would learn to wait and save then get a top end system from the word go but as people don't do this then the sensible choice gaming is to buy the highest GPU you can afford and then whatever CPU you can fit to that budget without creating a bad bottleneck

 

[tiny voices]

i3 at $120 + 7950 at $280 = $400

3570k at $230 + 7850 at $180 (if you get lucky) = $410

Strictly a gaming machine? i3 all the way for the budget.

 

[giltyler]

In most cases more is bought than is actually needed in the name of future proof.
I am guilty of this my self.

 

[Kiowa789]

Future proofing is an overused concept.

As to your CPU/GPU upgrade arguement the average guy building on a budget wants results now often these boxes are run till the end then entirely replaced.

Anyone building on an 1155 or AM3+ socket has the possibility to upgrade CPU in future if that becomes a bottleneck upgrading your £60 PhII to 8350 in 6 months time will likely cost under £150 (or your i3 to an i5), upgrading a cheap low end GPU that doesnt give the results you want from the day you bought it is going to cost £200 or more. Add the cost of the cheap GPU being replaced you could have bought a higher end GPU from day 1 and had good results (also this makes the CPU upgrade route genrally cheaper as long as you can stick to the socket). GPU's may get launched alot but a high end part now will last a while there are no shortage of GTX480 or even 470 users still happy today.

Ok in a perfect world people would learn to wait and save then get a top end system from the word go but as people don't do this then the sensible choice gaming is to buy the highest GPU you can afford and then whatever CPU you can fit to that budget without creating a bad bottleneck

The Average guy is not a sensible one, keep that in mind.
The sensible thing to do, is place money on your processor, so it can be the best it can possibly be, with the money given, because that will be the only time you will ever have to upgrade your processor, with that computer, until you build a new one.
Then, spend however much you want on the GPU, I wanted a 7870 HAWK when I was getting ready to build my new computer, but I couldn't with the money given, I still needed other parts.
So I settled for a 7850, nothing bad about it, still MSI Branded, so it has the great cooler's that they put on their GPU's. (Twin Frozr I-III).
But now I plan to buy another 7850, so i can crossfire, seeing on how prices are going down with some of these good AMD/ATI Cards, the time for upgrading will be soon, like I said in my last post, but I decided to wait until February, to see if I can upgrade to something better, because with the new generation of cards, comes this generation of cards bumping down in price, I would like to get a 7950, or a 670, right around february, because the price's will have gone down for them by then.