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Dust on sensor

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Anonymous
January 5, 2005 9:09:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Hi,

who already had dust on the sensor? How did you remove it?

Dust should get easily onto the sensor.
It is bad if you have dust on the film, but since you do not exchange
the sensor, it must be worse with digital SLRs.

My local dealer told me, I had to send the camera to the respective
manufacturer to clean the sensor?

Regards

Lars
- yet without digital SLR -

More about : dust sensor

Anonymous
January 5, 2005 9:09:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Lars Ritterhoff" <usenet@larsini.de> wrote in message
news:1gpxgwa.ew5wq41vrpoN%usenet@larsini.de...
> Hi,
>
> who already had dust on the sensor? How did you remove it?

Dust inevitably gets on you sensor. You blow it off with a rubber bulb. If
it does not come off that way, you can take it in for cleaning, or you can
attempt to clean it yourself (and at your own risk) with swabs and denatured
alcohol.
January 5, 2005 9:09:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Ugh, I've got a big hunk of dust *inside* my lens. I wonder if that's
fixable.


Lars Ritterhoff wrote:

> Hi,
>
> who already had dust on the sensor? How did you remove it?
>
> Dust should get easily onto the sensor.
> It is bad if you have dust on the film, but since you do not exchange
> the sensor, it must be worse with digital SLRs.
>
> My local dealer told me, I had to send the camera to the respective
> manufacturer to clean the sensor?
>
> Regards
>
> Lars
> - yet without digital SLR -
Related resources
Anonymous
January 5, 2005 9:09:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

C J Campbell wrote:
> "Lars Ritterhoff" <usenet@larsini.de> wrote in message
> news:1gpxgwa.ew5wq41vrpoN%usenet@larsini.de...
>> Hi,
>>
>> who already had dust on the sensor? How did you remove it?
>
> Dust inevitably gets on you sensor. You blow it off with a rubber
> bulb. If it does not come off that way, you can take it in for
> cleaning, or you can attempt to clean it yourself (and at your own
> risk) with swabs and denatured alcohol.
A Yahoo search "sensor cleaning" results in
http://tinyurl.com/3psk5

Enjoy.
Ken.


--
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Return address supplied by 'spammotel'
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Anonymous
January 6, 2005 3:55:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

> A Yahoo search "sensor cleaning" results in
> http://tinyurl.com/3psk5

Right. But I am more interested in how much hassle dust on the sensor is
rather

But
Anonymous
January 6, 2005 3:55:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

> > Dust inevitably gets on you sensor. You blow it off with a rubber
> > bulb. If it does not come off that way, you can take it in for
> > cleaning, or you can attempt to clean it yourself (and at your own
> > risk) with swabs and denatured alcohol.

> A Yahoo search "sensor cleaning" results in
> http://tinyurl.com/3psk5

Thank you. But tutorials ar only part of the answer I am looking for: I
am rather interested in how much of a problem dust on sensors is. E.g.
how often do you have to clean it? How difficult and risky is it? Anyone
damaged his sensor, yet?

Regards

Lars
Anonymous
January 6, 2005 7:38:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Lars Ritterhoff" <usenet@larsini.de> wrote in message
news:1gpxzke.m6rmjw176lc00N%usenet@larsini.de...
>
>> A Yahoo search "sensor cleaning" results in
>> http://tinyurl.com/3psk5
>
> Right. But I am more interested in how much hassle dust on the sensor is
> rather

Well, if you suffer from an obsessive-compulsive personality disorder, it
could be quite a problem. If you are a go with the flow type, it's no
problem. I just blow the big chunks off with an ear syringe and call it
good enough!
Anonymous
January 6, 2005 10:05:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Kibo informs me that usenet@larsini.de (Lars Ritterhoff) stated that:

>Thank you. But tutorials ar only part of the answer I am looking for: I
>am rather interested in how much of a problem dust on sensors is. E.g.
>how often do you have to clean it?

It's totally dependant on how often you change lenses, how careful you
are about it, & how dusty an environment you do it in. I've only cleaned
my 10D sensor once, so far (about a year), but it's picked up a few
small specks since then. Still, I'll probably need to clean it again
before the next time I do any outdoor shooting. (Dust tends to be most
visible in blue sky.)

> How difficult and risky is it?

Moderately. Again, it depends a lot on the individual.

> Anyone
>damaged his sensor, yet?

Not that I've heard of, but I imagine that many people would be too
embarrassed to admit to it. ;) 

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 3:23:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On 2005-01-06, Lionel <nop@alt.net> wrote:
> Kibo informs me that usenet@larsini.de (Lars Ritterhoff) stated that:
>
>>Thank you. But tutorials ar only part of the answer I am looking for: I
>>am rather interested in how much of a problem dust on sensors is. E.g.
>>how often do you have to clean it?
>
> It's totally dependant on how often you change lenses, how careful you
> are about it, & how dusty an environment you do it in. I've only cleaned
> my 10D sensor once, so far (about a year), but it's picked up a few
> small specks since then. Still, I'll probably need to clean it again
> before the next time I do any outdoor shooting. (Dust tends to be most
> visible in blue sky.)

I'm told by an acquaintance who claims lots of use of a 10D, including
outdoor lens changes, that the single biggest preventative factor is
turning off the camera before removing the lens. He says the second is
always holding the camera with the opening down (back up) while changing
lenses.

He says that sensor dust can be a problem for those with sloppy lens
changing habits. Maybe that means he doesn't have sensor dust problems,
I don't know, didn't ask.

Any comments about this?

Will D.
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 3:23:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Will D." <willd@no.spam> wrote in message
news:10trljir7h3pp1f@corp.supernews.com...
> On 2005-01-06, Lionel <nop@alt.net> wrote:
> > Kibo informs me that usenet@larsini.de (Lars Ritterhoff) stated that:
> >
> >>Thank you. But tutorials ar only part of the answer I am looking for: I
> >>am rather interested in how much of a problem dust on sensors is. E.g.
> >>how often do you have to clean it?
> >
> > It's totally dependant on how often you change lenses, how careful you
> > are about it, & how dusty an environment you do it in. I've only cleaned
> > my 10D sensor once, so far (about a year), but it's picked up a few
> > small specks since then. Still, I'll probably need to clean it again
> > before the next time I do any outdoor shooting. (Dust tends to be most
> > visible in blue sky.)
>
> I'm told by an acquaintance who claims lots of use of a 10D, including
> outdoor lens changes, that the single biggest preventative factor is
> turning off the camera before removing the lens. He says the second is
> always holding the camera with the opening down (back up) while changing
> lenses.
>
> He says that sensor dust can be a problem for those with sloppy lens
> changing habits. Maybe that means he doesn't have sensor dust problems,
> I don't know, didn't ask.
>
> Any comments about this?

It is baloney.
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 3:23:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

C J Campbell wrote:
> "Will D." <willd@no.spam> wrote in message
> news:10trljir7h3pp1f@corp.supernews.com...
>> On 2005-01-06, Lionel <nop@alt.net> wrote:
>>> Kibo informs me that usenet@larsini.de (Lars Ritterhoff) stated
>>> that:
>>>
>>>> Thank you. But tutorials ar only part of the answer I am looking
>>>> for: I am rather interested in how much of a problem dust on
>>>> sensors is. E.g. how often do you have to clean it?
>>>
>>> It's totally dependant on how often you change lenses, how careful
>>> you are about it, & how dusty an environment you do it in. I've
>>> only cleaned my 10D sensor once, so far (about a year), but it's
>>> picked up a few small specks since then. Still, I'll probably need
>>> to clean it again before the next time I do any outdoor shooting.
>>> (Dust tends to be most visible in blue sky.)
>>
>> I'm told by an acquaintance who claims lots of use of a 10D,
>> including outdoor lens changes, that the single biggest preventative
>> factor is turning off the camera before removing the lens. He says
>> the second is always holding the camera with the opening down (back
>> up) while changing lenses.
>>
>> He says that sensor dust can be a problem for those with sloppy lens
>> changing habits. Maybe that means he doesn't have sensor dust
>> problems, I don't know, didn't ask.
>>
>> Any comments about this?
>
> It is baloney.
I would tend to agree that turning off the camera has absolutely no bearing
on the 'dust-on-sensor' problem.
It just makes good (electronic) sense to power down when changing lenses.
As to pointing the camera down - might help, marginally, depending on the
circumstances.
I have had my 10D for a year and a half and have yet to clean the sensor. It
is due, I know, but that will have to wait until I get back home in April
and I can order the appropriate cleaning system (not obtainable here in
Honduras).
Cleaning system you ask?
http://www.visibledust.com/index.htm
From the reviews this seems to be the answer (for me).
Your mileage may vary.
Regards
Ken.

--
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Return address supplied by 'spammotel'
http://www.spammotel.com
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 1:49:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Lars Ritterhoff" <usenet@larsini.de> wrote in message
news:1gpxzke.m6rmjw176lc00N%usenet@larsini.de...
>
> > A Yahoo search "sensor cleaning" results in
> > http://tinyurl.com/3psk5
>
> Right. But I am more interested in how much hassle dust on the sensor is
> rather

It's an annoyance when shooting large areas of a single colour at small
aperture. Shoot a clear blue sky or a plain white wall at f16 or smaller and
dust on the sensor will show in the image. If you always shoot wide open or
thereabouts, you'll never notice it.

--
Colm
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 5:35:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Will D." <willd@no.spam> wrote in message
news:10tu1ms1bmudn87@corp.supernews.com...
>
> I think that, given the speed with which the 20D boots, powering down to
> change lenses is a reasonable default procedure. Except when a lens
> change is needed quickly, and the buffers are still transferring to the
> memory card... I really don't want to hear that such a change is not
> possible ;) 

Man, you can really do that? Your hands must be incredibly fast!

>
>
> Another thought: Are long exposures more likely to allow dust to get to
> the sensor cover? That would seem likely, I think.
>
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 3:37:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Will D." <willd@no.spam> wrote in message
news:10tu1ms1bmudn87@corp.supernews.com...
SNIP
> Another thought: Are long exposures more likely to allow dust
> to get to the sensor cover? That would seem likely, I think.

Yes, after the mirror starts some turbulence as it swings out of the
optical path, the shutter races out of the way, there is most likely
to exist an airflow towards the sensor. As it builds up charge, some
of the dust from the cavity is likely to wind up in the wrong place.
So all we can do is try and keep the dust out of the cavity (and make
sure the lens mount and cap is clean), which is not an easy thing.

Bart
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 4:57:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On 2005-01-07, Bart van der Wolf <bvdwolf@no.spam> wrote:
>
> "Will D." <willd@no.spam> wrote in message
> news:10tu1ms1bmudn87@corp.supernews.com...
> SNIP
>> Another thought: Are long exposures more likely to allow dust
>> to get to the sensor cover? That would seem likely, I think.
>
> Yes, after the mirror starts some turbulence as it swings out of the
> optical path, the shutter races out of the way, there is most likely
> to exist an airflow towards the sensor. As it builds up charge, some
> of the dust from the cavity is likely to wind up in the wrong place.
> So all we can do is try and keep the dust out of the cavity (and make
> sure the lens mount and cap is clean), which is not an easy thing.
>
> Bart

Okay, thanks for the response!

Another thought: Having read somewhere that the 1Ds MkII has really bad
dust susceptibility, I wonder if there is some connection between that
and the number of pixels (total charge?). In other words, perhaps the
20D is apt to be discernably more vulnerable to gathering dust on the
sensor cover than the 10D. The more pixels, the more dust? Not good.

I guess the identification of proper and effective sensor cover cleaning
equipment, etc, is a good thing to pursue before I get one of these
things.

Thanks again,

Will D.
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 5:04:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On 2005-01-07, C J Campbell <christophercampbellNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> "Will D." <willd@no.spam> wrote in message
> news:10tu1ms1bmudn87@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> I think that, given the speed with which the 20D boots, powering down to
>> change lenses is a reasonable default procedure. Except when a lens
>> change is needed quickly, and the buffers are still transferring to the
>> memory card... I really don't want to hear that such a change is not
>> possible ;) 
>
> Man, you can really do that? Your hands must be incredibly fast!

One of the reviews complained that one cannot pull the memory card
before the buffers have down loaded. If that really is a problem
(waiting for the writing to conclude before removing the card), then
maybe lens changes during that time might also be. I can remove the
lens from the body a lot faster than I can remove the memory card, I
think.

Lots of unknowns, and having already been burned by precipitous purchase
of a digital camera, I'd rather do all the investigation before I
consider buying one.

Will D.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 6:47:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

> >> I'm told by an acquaintance who claims lots of use of a 10D,
> >> including outdoor lens changes, that the single biggest preventative
> >> factor is turning off the camera before removing the lens. He says
> >> the second is always holding the camera with the opening down (back
> >> up) while changing lenses.

By definition, if you are holding the camera with the opening down, you
are holding the lens with the rear element UP. Thus the dust you avoided
falling into the camera falls onto the lens, with the same net result that
it's sloshing around inside the camera.

Not that I think it makes a compelling difference anyway (the sensor will
eventually get dirty and need to be cleaned), but the best way to avoid
dust settling would be to have the opening/lens parallel to the ground.

KeS
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 3:19:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <Pine.OSX.4.58.0503021544110.12159@onorysvfu.chefhrq-jvgu.arg>,
<Kevin_Stevens@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> I'm told by an acquaintance who claims lots of use of a 10D,
>> >> including outdoor lens changes, that the single biggest preventative
>> >> factor is turning off the camera before removing the lens.

Hmm ... that would at least reduce the electrostatic charge on
the sensor, so it would reduce the attraction of the dust to the sensor.

Hmm ... I wonder whether one of those Zero-stat guns for
eliminating surface charge on vinyl records would be a good
pre-treatment for the sensor before gentle puffing or vacuuming.

>> >> He says
>> >> the second is always holding the camera with the opening down (back
>> >> up) while changing lenses.
>
>By definition, if you are holding the camera with the opening down, you
>are holding the lens with the rear element UP. Thus the dust you avoided
>falling into the camera falls onto the lens, with the same net result that
>it's sloshing around inside the camera.

perhaps if you hold the rear cap just beside the lens mount, you
can transfer the lens into the cap quickly enough to minimize this dust.

>Not that I think it makes a compelling difference anyway (the sensor will
>eventually get dirty and need to be cleaned), but the best way to avoid
>dust settling would be to have the opening/lens parallel to the ground.

If the sensor is not charged and actively attracting dust, yes.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
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(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 9:44:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

> In article <Pine.OSX.4.58.0503021544110.12159@onorysvfu.chefhrq-jvgu.arg>,
> <Kevin_Stevens@hotmail.com> wrote:

> >By definition, if you are holding the camera with the opening down, you
> >are holding the lens with the rear element UP. Thus the dust you avoided
> >falling into the camera falls onto the lens, with the same net result that
> >it's sloshing around inside the camera.

Not the same net result. Dust on the lens is not in the focal plane, so
will not show up as an object on the image. Anyway, dust on a lens is
unavoidable, but easily dealt with.

Merritt
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 1:20:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Merritt Mullen wrote:

> Not the same net result. Dust on the lens is not in the focal plane, so
> will not show up as an object on the image. Anyway, dust on a lens is
> unavoidable, but easily dealt with.

Dust on the lens will show as flare if you shoot into the light.

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
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Anonymous
March 5, 2005 8:33:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <mmullen8014-DB33BD.22441704032005@netnews.asp.att.net>,
Merritt Mullen <mmullen8014@mchsi.com> wrote:
>> In article <Pine.OSX.4.58.0503021544110.12159@onorysvfu.chefhrq-jvgu.arg>,
>> <Kevin_Stevens@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >By definition, if you are holding the camera with the opening down, you
>> >are holding the lens with the rear element UP. Thus the dust you avoided
>> >falling into the camera falls onto the lens, with the same net result that
>> >it's sloshing around inside the camera.
>
>Not the same net result. Dust on the lens is not in the focal plane, so
>will not show up as an object on the image. Anyway, dust on a lens is
>unavoidable, but easily dealt with.

Note that once you mount the lens back on the camera, that dust
is now inside, and can migrate to the sensor. (One of many possible
mechanisms is for the mirror to fan it off, and on a subsequent shot it
can migrate to the sensor -- perhaps in stages.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 11:38:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

> By definition, if you are holding the camera with the opening down, you
> are holding the lens with the rear element UP. Thus the dust you avoided
> falling into the camera falls onto the lens, with the same net result that
> it's sloshing around inside the camera.
>

But, it's a hell of a lot easier to clean the rear element of the lens than
it is to clean the sensor, assuming all these gravity theories play out. If
gravity was "really" our friend it would keep the dust on the ground where
it belongs.
!