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D70 focus problems??

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Anonymous
January 7, 2005 9:59:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

When I compare the pictures from my D70 and my PowerShopt G3 the G3
pictures seems very much sharper. This is the case even when I increase
the sharpness in the settings. Maybe, it's hard to say for sure, there
is a little back focus. By the way, this is with the 19-70 kit lens.

I'll do some research tomorrow to see if there is an actual bacfocus.

Anyone else with the same problem?

/erik

More about : d70 focus problems

Anonymous
January 7, 2005 9:59:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 06:59:57 +0100, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Erik
Persson <none@none.none> wrote:

>When I compare the pictures from my D70 and my PowerShopt G3 the G3
>pictures seems very much sharper. This is the case even when I increase
>the sharpness in the settings. Maybe, it's hard to say for sure, there
>is a little back focus. By the way, this is with the 19-70 kit lens.
>
>I'll do some research tomorrow to see if there is an actual bacfocus.
>
>Anyone else with the same problem?

I believe there was a back focus issue with early models.
________________________________________________________
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://EdwardGRuf.com
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 10:26:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Erik Persson" <none@none.none> wrote in message
news:%sqDd.10681$Of5.7528@nntpserver.swip.net...
> When I compare the pictures from my D70 and my PowerShopt G3 the G3
> pictures seems very much sharper. This is the case even when I increase
> the sharpness in the settings. Maybe, it's hard to say for sure, there
> is a little back focus. By the way, this is with the 19-70 kit lens.
>
> I'll do some research tomorrow to see if there is an actual bacfocus.
>
> Anyone else with the same problem?

This guy claims to have a test for it. You might want to give it a try.

http://md.co.za/d70/chart.html#ActualChart
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Anonymous
January 7, 2005 1:40:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Erik Persson" <none@none.none> wrote in message
news:%sqDd.10681$Of5.7528@nntpserver.swip.net...
> When I compare the pictures from my D70 and my PowerShopt G3 the G3
> pictures seems very much sharper. This is the case even when I increase
> the sharpness in the settings. Maybe, it's hard to say for sure, there
> is a little back focus. By the way, this is with the 19-70 kit lens.

Are you shooting the same subject with both? Same aperture and shutter
speed? Tripod or handheld?
Any examples?

--
Colm
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 5:20:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Colm wrote:
> "Erik Persson" <none@none.none> wrote in message
> news:%sqDd.10681$Of5.7528@nntpserver.swip.net...
>
>>When I compare the pictures from my D70 and my PowerShopt G3 the G3
>>pictures seems very much sharper. This is the case even when I increase
>>the sharpness in the settings. Maybe, it's hard to say for sure, there
>>is a little back focus. By the way, this is with the 19-70 kit lens.
>
>
> Are you shooting the same subject with both? Same aperture and shutter
> speed? Tripod or handheld?
> Any examples?
>

To be honest I haven't investigated it to that degree. It is more a of a
thing I've noticed when I compare pictures from the two cameras. I have
a large number of very crisp G3 pictures, and none of the D70 pictures
are as sharp. My feeling is that the use of a tripod does not make any
difference.

I'll put some examples on my webserver - will post the URL later.

/erik
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 5:43:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

I got the camera in august 2004 and it has (and had from the beginning)
the latest? (A 1.01 B 1.02) firmware. As I understand, it was a new
camera (they had to order it for me) and not something that had been in
the store for a long time.
Wasn't it the very first cameras that had the focus problem?
Did this problem persist until late summer 2004?

It could be that there is more in camera sharpening in the powershot,
but I can't see any halos on the photos.
The AF systems is different in campact and SLR digitals as far as I
know. The photos are all taken with AF so this _maybe_ could have some
impact - guessing here though...

I'll try to investigate this further and make my own focus test shart.

/erik

Ed Ruf wrote:

> On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 06:59:57 +0100, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Erik
> Persson <none@none.none> wrote:
>
>
>>When I compare the pictures from my D70 and my PowerShopt G3 the G3
>>pictures seems very much sharper. This is the case even when I increase
>>the sharpness in the settings. Maybe, it's hard to say for sure, there
>>is a little back focus. By the way, this is with the 19-70 kit lens.
>>
>>I'll do some research tomorrow to see if there is an actual bacfocus.
>>
>>Anyone else with the same problem?
>
>
> I believe there was a back focus issue with early models.
> ________________________________________________________
> Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
> See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
> http://EdwardGRuf.com
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 8:08:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 07:26:15 -0800, "C J Campbell"
<christophercampbellNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Erik Persson" <none@none.none> wrote in message
>news:%sqDd.10681$Of5.7528@nntpserver.swip.net...
>> When I compare the pictures from my D70 and my PowerShopt G3 the G3
>> pictures seems very much sharper. This is the case even when I increase
>> the sharpness in the settings. Maybe, it's hard to say for sure, there
>> is a little back focus. By the way, this is with the 19-70 kit lens.
>>
>> I'll do some research tomorrow to see if there is an actual bacfocus.
>>
>> Anyone else with the same problem?
>
>This guy claims to have a test for it. You might want to give it a try.
>
>http://md.co.za/d70/chart.html#ActualChart

He only tests the center horizontal focusing sensor. Wouldn't it be
prudent to test each one separately?, there are 5 others.


--
Owamanga!
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 8:20:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Thank you!
/erik

C J Campbell wrote:

> This guy claims to have a test for it. You might want to give it a try.
>
> http://md.co.za/d70/chart.html#ActualChart
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 9:31:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 06:59:57 +0100, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Erik
Persson <none@none.none> wrote:

>When I compare the pictures from my D70 and my PowerShopt G3 the G3
>pictures seems very much sharper.

How exactly are you comparing these different sized (pixel wise) images?
________________________________________________________
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://EdwardGRuf.com
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 10:59:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

There is lens sharpness and digital sharpness.
You can compare manual to autofocusing on your own to see if the autofocus
is really the problem.
The D70 at default jpg settings seems to apply significantly less sharpening
than P&S and prosumer cameras and ramps up the contrast much less, all of
which affects apparent image sharpness. Also the physically very small
apertures in lenses used for smaller sensor cameras will tend to increase
depth of field and apparent sharpness regardless of the focal length of the
lens.
However, comparing raw images of the same subject from a Nikon D70 and a
Sony 828 I find there is an undeniable softness to the raw image coming off
the Nikon D70 compared to the Sony 828 that is not simply due to the
difference in megapixel count between the sensors, using the Adobe raw
plug-in for both cameras rather than the Nikon/Sony raw converters and
trying to use equivalent focal lengths and apertures.
I do not know if this is a sensor or software issue: it is possible that
in-camera processing is applied to the raw image differently in both
cameras.
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 12:49:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Now I have done some tests comparing my G3 to my D70 with 18-70 kit
lens. The G3 lens is 35-140mm eqiv with aperture 2.0-3.0. The D70 18-70
is 3.5-4.5 with a 27-105 eqiv (1.5 crop factor). I compared the D70
(with the 18-70) to the G3 at the same aperture and at each cameras/lens
wide angle resp telephoto limit using a home made focusing chart. I used
a tripod.

At wide angle one of the objects on my test chart had a size of 65 mm on
the G3 and 70 mm on the D70 (roughly the same distance between the
sensors and the object). The D70 image was however very much larger in
the objects direction so the D70 picture thus corresponds to a smaller
focal distance. It is however of importance below when I compare the
resolution, since even though the objects on the G3 were smaller in
terms of number of pixels they occupied, the resolution and sharpness
seemed to be the same as with the D70!
I found the percieved sharpness about equal as well as the resolution
(that is, if a could tell 2 points apart in one of the pictures I could
do the same in the other). There was some sharpening artefacts in both
images and none were better than the other. The G3 had a larger DOF (but
you could take the G3 down to aperture 2.0 if you want a small DOF). The
D70 DOF was quite a bit back, but the object I focused on where in focus
(maybe there were a very slight back focus).
The G3 thus performed equally well as the D70 even though the objects on
the G3 was a little smaller (in of number of pixels).

At the telephoto limit one object where 233mm in the G3 and 191 mm in
D70. The G3 picture was virtually free from sharpening artefacts whereas
the D70 had some halos (I set the D70 sharpening to medium high). In
this test the resolution of the G3 was superior to the D70, possibly
because of the larger tele. I found the sharpness to be better in the G3
picture (but not by much) as well. In this test the D70 focused
accuratly with about equal DOF at both sides. Again, the G3 had a larger
DOF (but you could be set the aperture to 3.5 instead of the tested 4.5).

When it comes down to a pixel by pixel comparision, that is if a object
takes up the same number of pixels, the G3 seems superior. The G3 had no
problems with setting the correct focus (besides being much slower), but
D70 18-70 had some minor problems.
I have some problems explaining the larger DOF of the G3, especially
since it were more in the telephoto range, but I guess this is because
of the smaller optics that can be used secondarily to the smaller CCD.

There was some focusingproblems when using the D70 with the kit lens,
and the G3 seemed overall a little bit sharper (pixel by pixel), but I
can't say that this was because of bad focusing.

This test does not explain the differences I've seen before!

/erik
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 12:49:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:49:06 +0100, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Erik
Persson <none@none.none> wrote:


>There was some focusingproblems when using the D70 with the kit lens,

What do you mean by this? Sounds like you are are near or at the close
focusing limit of the kit lens, ie 1.2 ft.
________________________________________________________
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://EdwardGRuf.com
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 1:11:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

bmoag wrote:

> There is lens sharpness and digital sharpness.
> You can compare manual to autofocusing on your own to see if the autofocus
> is really the problem.
> The D70 at default jpg settings seems to apply significantly less sharpening
> than P&S and prosumer cameras and ramps up the contrast much less, all of
> which affects apparent image sharpness. Also the physically very small
> apertures in lenses used for smaller sensor cameras will tend to increase
> depth of field and apparent sharpness regardless of the focal length of the
> lens.
> However, comparing raw images of the same subject from a Nikon D70 and a
> Sony 828 I find there is an undeniable softness to the raw image coming off
> the Nikon D70 compared to the Sony 828 that is not simply due to the
> difference in megapixel count between the sensors, using the Adobe raw
> plug-in for both cameras rather than the Nikon/Sony raw converters and
> trying to use equivalent focal lengths and apertures.
> I do not know if this is a sensor or software issue: it is possible that
> in-camera processing is applied to the raw image differently in both
> cameras.
>
>
January 8, 2005 1:44:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Well the one thing you need to note is the aperture of the image. If
you shoot at wide open apertures on the D70, and the G3 uses smaller
apertures than the G3 will be more sharp. Also you are at the mercy of
the lens on this, which is very good, so that is not an issue. I would
look to see which images are not very sharp on the D70 and note the
aperture. The sharper images will be around f/8-f/11. If using the G3
on auto modes, it may automatically select shutter speeds that put it at
f/8-f/11 for sharper images. If shooting the D70 in portrait mode, then
it will use the largest aperture it can for out of focus backgrounds.
So it may select f/4. If this happens, less of the image is in focus,
and the lens is not at it's optimum sharpness. These things are what I
think are happening. The D70 is an awesome camera and it's output is
among the best in this price range. If you want a sharper lens, get the
50/1.8 Nikkor. At $100 it's the best you could spend. Sharp, fast,
light. Better than ANY zoom you can buy at any price. If you want a
zoom, then look into a 28-70/2.8 AF-S Nikkor. At like $1500. Awesome
lens, but that 50/1.8 is sharper and better. It also teaches you to not
rely on the zoom and be more creative, enhancing your photography
skills.

JR



In article <%sqDd.10681$Of5.7528@nntpserver.swip.net>,
Erik Persson <none@none.none> wrote:

> When I compare the pictures from my D70 and my PowerShopt G3 the G3
> pictures seems very much sharper. This is the case even when I increase
> the sharpness in the settings. Maybe, it's hard to say for sure, there
> is a little back focus. By the way, this is with the 19-70 kit lens.
>
> I'll do some research tomorrow to see if there is an actual bacfocus.
>
> Anyone else with the same problem?
>
> /erik
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 1:54:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Interesting! If the only difference between the both raw formats are the
softness then Nikon is using an inferior CCD or bad processing.

I found the D70 to be less sharp (not much) than the G3 _even_ though
there were a little bit more halos in the D70 image. That's compatible
with your findings. The sharpening algorithms etc have to work harder.
The relative lack of sharpness could be the result of bad sharpening
algorithms etc, but in the light of your findings it is more likely to
be the quality of the input to the sharpening algorithms that is the cause.

To my knowledge Canon is leading the pro digital SLR league at the cost
of high prices. The D70 should however compete well against the EOS
300D, and generally be a better by even though it's a little bit more
expensive. I haven't seen any nice and well done comparison between the
two when it comes to image quality (with kit lenses) though. 300D will
not have as much noise, but apart from that what should one expect??

I don't know if I could do better then the AF system. When I look
through the viewfinder in AF mode my impression is that of good
focusing. On the other hand, my test showed that there really were no
(or at the very most very slight) back focusing at the very wide angle
of the lens and no problems at all at the tele end of the lens. It seems
that the focusing isn't the problem (if there are any problem :) ).

My tests could not explain the differences I see in my other photos.
Maybe I'm just wrong and the cause is that I have so much more G3 photos
and among all these, there are some that are perticulary well.

/erik

bmoag wrote:

> There is lens sharpness and digital sharpness.
> You can compare manual to autofocusing on your own to see if the autofocus
> is really the problem.
> The D70 at default jpg settings seems to apply significantly less sharpening
> than P&S and prosumer cameras and ramps up the contrast much less, all of
> which affects apparent image sharpness. Also the physically very small
> apertures in lenses used for smaller sensor cameras will tend to increase
> depth of field and apparent sharpness regardless of the focal length of the
> lens.
> However, comparing raw images of the same subject from a Nikon D70 and a
> Sony 828 I find there is an undeniable softness to the raw image coming off
> the Nikon D70 compared to the Sony 828 that is not simply due to the
> difference in megapixel count between the sensors, using the Adobe raw
> plug-in for both cameras rather than the Nikon/Sony raw converters and
> trying to use equivalent focal lengths and apertures.
> I do not know if this is a sensor or software issue: it is possible that
> in-camera processing is applied to the raw image differently in both
> cameras.
>
>
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 5:00:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

The first comparisions where more of "this one was sharp at 100%
pixelwise, lets see what the D70 pictures look like. Hmm, that one
wasn't as sharp, neither that or that or that... I have heard of a D70
back focusing problem. Could it be so, or is it something else.".
The latest comparision was more systematic. I took a number of pictures
at the telephoto and wide angle ends of both the G3 and the D70 18-70
and compared them. At wide angle there were little difference in the
sizes (pixel wise) of objects in the picture. (se another post)
At the telephoto end however there were since the G3 has a longer 35mm eqiv.

I guess you want to tell me that the D70 is sharper than the G3 since a
more "correct" test would be to compare the pictures at equal sizes
(disregarding the different width to height ratios). This is of course
one way to compare the pictures. One important factor is however how
much one can crop and increase the size of the pictures. A test
comparing pictures pixel wise is thus important, as it tells me that
some of my extra pixels won't give me an increase in picture size but
are "wasted".

Then, as a bonus, I think it is interesting to try to find out why an
image that occupies roughly the same number of photodetectors in the two
cameras differ in terms of percieved sharpness (well, if it had done so
more than it did :)  )

/erik

Ed Ruf wrote:

> On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 06:59:57 +0100, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Erik
> Persson <none@none.none> wrote:
>
>
>>When I compare the pictures from my D70 and my PowerShopt G3 the G3
>>pictures seems very much sharper.
>
>
> How exactly are you comparing these different sized (pixel wise) images?
> ________________________________________________________
> Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
> See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
> http://EdwardGRuf.com
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 5:00:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 02:00:32 +0100, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Erik
Persson <none@none.none> wrote:


>I guess you want to tell me that the D70 is sharper than the G3 since a
>more "correct" test would be to compare the pictures at equal sizes
>(disregarding the different width to height ratios).

No, I'm trying to understand exactly what you are comparing, 1:1 pixel
comparisons taken how? raw, jpeg, what settings?or something else. I own a
Nikon 990, 570 and a D70. I still use all three.


> This is of course
>one way to compare the pictures. One important factor is however how
>much one can crop and increase the size of the pictures. A test
>comparing pictures pixel wise is thus important, as it tells me that
>some of my extra pixels won't give me an increase in picture size but
>are "wasted".

Yes, but you need to compare consistent processing. Try this test with all
in camera processing turned off. Not just sharpening, but any contrast,
brightening or saturation, etc. processing.

>Then, as a bonus, I think it is interesting to try to find out why an
>image that occupies roughly the same number of photodetectors in the two
>cameras differ in terms of percieved sharpness (well, if it had done so
>more than it did :)  )

I've done this with my 990/5700 and now my D70. You need to turn all in
camera processing off to have any hope of a true unbiased comparison.
________________________________________________________
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://EdwardGRuf.com
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 5:26:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

If that's the case, it would make me happy! I'll try to do the test
again tomorrow at a larger distance. However, I think I was farther from
the focus point than 40 cm but I can't remember for sure. I got a "focus
lock" on objects much nearer the focus point (i didn't take any
photos!!!), and there was no problem at 70 mm even though the distance
from the focus point to the sensor was the same.
I could be badly wrong here! It would be nice if you could give me an
explanation in that case, ie why wasn't there any "problems" at 70 mm
when it was at 35 mm.

Anyhow, as I explained, the AF could not (if we extrapolate the test
results to larger distances) be the reason that the pictures from the
D70 looks less sharp (pixel wise) since the the focus point always were
in focus (although the DOF was more to the back at 18 mm).

/erik

Ed Ruf wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:49:06 +0100, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Erik
> Persson <none@none.none> wrote:
>
>>There was some focusingproblems when using the D70 with the kit lens,
>
> What do you mean by this? Sounds like you are are near or at the close
> focusing limit of the kit lens, ie 1.2 ft.
> ________________________________________________________
> Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
> See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
> http://EdwardGRuf.com
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 5:26:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 02:26:27 +0100, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Erik
Persson <none@none.none> wrote:
> It would be nice if you could give me an
>explanation in that case, ie why wasn't there any "problems" at 70 mm
>when it was at 35 mm.

If you are shooting at anything les than the 40cm min focal distance I have
no idea. This is one area where a dslr with most lenses is not as capable
as a P&S. I still use my 990 and 570 when I need real macro shots. Jus used
my 900 the last few days fro shots within 3 in. My D70 won't do that.
________________________________________________________
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://EdwardGRuf.com
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 6:26:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Ed Ruf wrote:
> No, I'm trying to understand exactly what you are comparing, 1:1 pixel
> comparisons taken how? raw, jpeg, what settings?or something else. I own a
> Nikon 990, 570 and a D70. I still use all three.

Ok, at first it was just pictures, mostly jpegs, taken with the two
cameras. Settings varied. Not systematic in any way. Then I tried to
understand if the AF was to blame - and it is probably not. As an
"extra" I tried to see if there was any differences in picture quality
with the settings I had applied to both cameras or if it just happened
to be that among the more numerous G3 pictures I was lucky to find a
couple that looked very sharp. To me it seemed like the G3 pictures
where sharper even in the more standardized setting and in one instance
had lesser sharpening artefacts - wich I find interesting. No clue to
why though.

>>This is of course
>>one way to compare the pictures. One important factor is however how
>>much one can crop and increase the size of the pictures. A test
>>comparing pictures pixel wise is thus important, as it tells me that
>>some of my extra pixels won't give me an increase in picture size but
>>are "wasted".
>
> Yes, but you need to compare consistent processing. Try this test with all
> in camera processing turned off. Not just sharpening, but any contrast,
> brightening or saturation, etc. processing.

Agree.

>>Then, as a bonus, I think it is interesting to try to find out why an
>>image that occupies roughly the same number of photodetectors in the two
>>cameras differ in terms of percieved sharpness (well, if it had done so
>>more than it did :)  )
>
> I've done this with my 990/5700 and now my D70. You need to turn all in
> camera processing off to have any hope of a true unbiased comparison.

Agrees mostly. But I think it is interesting to see how the camera
processing works as well. Is one camera introducing more halos without
incresing the "sharpness" compared to another camera etc. I'm only at
the very beginning of the investigation, and later I'll try to see if I
can locate the part, if any, to blame. For the moment I'm just having a
number of pictures from the D70 and the G3 where the G3 pictures seems
sharper pixel wise. My firts hypothesis was that the AF didn't work as
expected since there's been a lot of talk about the D70 AF. But the test
I've done indicates that the AF seems to work. But was there really a
difference in sharpness or was it only a random occurence that hit me?
But even using this more standardized procedure I found that the G3
pictures looked sharper (and I could do this test at the same time as
the AF test). Thus, it isn't likely that it was just some random effect
that i noticed earlier. Accordingly i find there is reason to
investigate this further.
But so far I'm just guessing the reason of this sharpness difference -
maybe it's the postprocessing, maybe the CCD, maybe the lens. I haven't
come that far yet. The next step will for certain involve comparing the
cameras with no postprocessing in raw mode! Thank you for the advice!

In the end I want to take as nice pictures as possible with as little
postprocessing as possible for most of them, leaving me more time to
postprocess only the nicest pictures.

> ________________________________________________________
> Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
> See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
> http://EdwardGRuf.com
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 6:50:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

I'll do the test from a greater distance tomorrow. It could be that I
was to near.
My g3 is superior to the 18-70 in macro as well. My brother has a nikon
mikro 60 mm that i'm going to borrow the next time i meet him. Could be
fun to test some makro photography with the d70.

/erik

Ed Ruf wrote:
> If you are shooting at anything les than the 40cm min focal distance I have
> no idea. This is one area where a dslr with most lenses is not as capable
> as a P&S. I still use my 990 and 570 when I need real macro shots. Jus used
> my 900 the last few days fro shots within 3 in. My D70 won't do that.
> ________________________________________________________
> Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
> See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
> http://EdwardGRuf.com
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 8:04:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

I like the D70 very much. The one thing I don't like is the softer look
of the pictures, but I guess I could change my workflow and get as sharp
pictures as from the G3.
It's hard to compare the D70 and G3 since the G3 gives a very much
larger DOF at the same aperture. As I understand, this is because of the
smaller optics. My comparison was however based on the sharpness at the
focus point. The reason so far could be anything, but less likely the AF
system. I'll investigate this futher.

I have been thinking about buying the 50/1.8. It's a little bit more
expensive here in sweden (about $150), but it is not much money anyway.
The 28-70/2.8 is however rather expensive here (about $2500).

I'll absolutly be thinking of buying the 50/1.8. Thanks for the advice.

/erik

JR wrote:
> Well the one thing you need to note is the aperture of the image. If
> you shoot at wide open apertures on the D70, and the G3 uses smaller
> apertures than the G3 will be more sharp. Also you are at the mercy of
> the lens on this, which is very good, so that is not an issue. I would
> look to see which images are not very sharp on the D70 and note the
> aperture. The sharper images will be around f/8-f/11. If using the G3
> on auto modes, it may automatically select shutter speeds that put it at
> f/8-f/11 for sharper images. If shooting the D70 in portrait mode, then
> it will use the largest aperture it can for out of focus backgrounds.
> So it may select f/4. If this happens, less of the image is in focus,
> and the lens is not at it's optimum sharpness. These things are what I
> think are happening. The D70 is an awesome camera and it's output is
> among the best in this price range. If you want a sharper lens, get the
> 50/1.8 Nikkor. At $100 it's the best you could spend. Sharp, fast,
> light. Better than ANY zoom you can buy at any price. If you want a
> zoom, then look into a 28-70/2.8 AF-S Nikkor. At like $1500. Awesome
> lens, but that 50/1.8 is sharper and better. It also teaches you to not
> rely on the zoom and be more creative, enhancing your photography
> skills.
>
> JR
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 6:22:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

I have now compared the cameras (d70 and powershot g3) in raw mode. When
comparing 2 jpegs you compare the in camera processing and the actual
tuning of the in camera processing as well as other aspects of the
camera. Another problem exists when comparing raw, because then you
suddenly have off camera software for raw processing. This software
differ - some programs do a better job for a certain raw format etc.
Even if you use the same program for the raw processing, the tuning of
the software could differ between different types of raw formats. I used
photoshop camera raw to do the comparison. This even though nicon
capture maybe could do a better job.
The both raw pictures, without any sharpening or contrast enhancement
etc, looked about the same. Since they were rather soft, it was hard to
see if one or the other was softer. I tried to see any differences, but
they looked very much the same in terms of sharpness. When applying the
same amount of sharpening (as judged by the camera raw plugin settings)
when converting the files from raw, the pictures where almost identical
in terms of per pixel sharpness....

My conclusion to the D70 soft picture "problem" is thus that the in
camera tuning for jpeg processing will give you softer looking pictures
in the D70.
The reasons for the conclusion are, as stated above, the more or less
identical softness of the low processed raws, the almost identical
sharpness of the sharpened raws and the fact that I could not see any
back or front focus in my focus tests of the D70. It would affect the
reasoning to some degree if camera raw in any way differed to the
advantage of either of the cameras.

/erik

Erik Persson wrote:
> When I compare the pictures from my D70 and my PowerShopt G3 the G3
> pictures seems very much sharper. This is the case even when I increase
> the sharpness in the settings. Maybe, it's hard to say for sure, there
> is a little back focus. By the way, this is with the 19-70 kit lens.
>
> I'll do some research tomorrow to see if there is an actual bacfocus.
>
> Anyone else with the same problem?
>
> /erik
January 16, 2005 6:22:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Erik Persson" <none@none.none> wrote in message
news:FBjGd.13583$Of5.9742@nntpserver.swip.net...

> My conclusion to the D70 soft picture "problem" is thus that the in camera
> tuning for jpeg processing will give you softer looking pictures in the
> D70.

I think you are exactly right. This problem has taken several people by
surprise during the time I've been reading this and related newsgroups.
Professional cameras do much less enhancement by themselves than
point-and-shoot cameras. The camera assumes that it has a much better lens
(hence not as much need for sharpening) and that the image is going to be
processed with software under the user's control.

Are there settings to tell the D70 to do more sharpening? On the Digital
Rebel you have adjustable in-camera sharpening.
January 16, 2005 7:17:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 06:59:57 +0100, Erik Persson <none@none.none>
wrote:

>When I compare the pictures from my D70 and my PowerShopt G3 the G3
>pictures seems very much sharper. This is the case even when I increase
>the sharpness in the settings. Maybe, it's hard to say for sure, there
>is a little back focus. By the way, this is with the 19-70 kit lens.

Try it with some other lenses. The try using manual focus. (Use a
tripod to get the best images. If necessary even go as far as using
the remote or self timer to key it.

I ended up sending mine in under warranty as it would no longer focus
to infinity. That affected the focus at other ranges as well. it
took about two weeks and it came back with the latest firm ware at the
time.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>I'll do some research tomorrow to see if there is an actual bacfocus.
>
>Anyone else with the same problem?
>
>/erik
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 3:09:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <41e9cfe4$1@mustang.speedfactory.net>,
"mc" <mc_no_spam@uga.edu> wrote:

> Are there settings to tell the D70 to do more sharpening?

Yes. In fact, the D70 has manual settings for almost everything.
However, if you use one of the program modes, you get the settings for
that particular program.

There are 7 sharpening levels: none, low, medium low, normal, medium high,
high, and auto. Auto is the default mode.

Merritt
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 8:27:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

I have done some testing and my conclusions are that there is no
significant back focusing in my camera. The reason for the softer
looking pictures is likely to be a less agressive, compared to G3, in
camera default sharpening.

/erik

Roger wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 06:59:57 +0100, Erik Persson <none@none.none>
> wrote:
>
>
>>When I compare the pictures from my D70 and my PowerShopt G3 the G3
>>pictures seems very much sharper. This is the case even when I increase
>>the sharpness in the settings. Maybe, it's hard to say for sure, there
>>is a little back focus. By the way, this is with the 19-70 kit lens.
>
>
> Try it with some other lenses. The try using manual focus. (Use a
> tripod to get the best images. If necessary even go as far as using
> the remote or self timer to key it.
>
> I ended up sending mine in under warranty as it would no longer focus
> to infinity. That affected the focus at other ranges as well. it
> took about two weeks and it came back with the latest firm ware at the
> time.
>
> Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
> www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>>I'll do some research tomorrow to see if there is an actual bacfocus.
>>
>>Anyone else with the same problem?
>>
>>/erik
>
>
!