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Looking for comments on my potential new system

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October 31, 2012 9:24:47 PM

********EDIT**********


new info:
it's between these two now:
http://pcpartpicker.com/uk/p/m6Iv
http://pcpartpicker.com/uk/p/m6zu

reason being, the FX-6200 performs better on just CPU and I don't need GREAT graphics as I won't be gaming.


********EDIT**********

A few points which may explain why I chose some components and what I'll actually be using the system for:

I read that the processor is a good overclocker (although I'm not sure about the motherboard).
I chose the motherboard because it has 2+ SATA 6 Gb/s and I have chosen 2 SATA 6 Gb/s drives, and other ATX boards around the same price only have 1 SATA 6Gb/s. Also it has 2 PCIE 3.0 slots for the 2 graphics cards I will have.

I realize the graphics card is a bit crap but I'm not sure how crap so if you could shine some light on that that would be helpful. However I will only be doing a little gaming because I mainly game on PS3 and Xbox, but I do watch loads of movies and tv etc. on my computer so I do need a separate graphics card rather than using on board graphics. I am also going to have 2 displays, that's why I'll take the old card from my previous build. I like having a second display because I do a lot of Uni work on my computer obviously and I like having the extra real estate so I can fling things to the other display and maybe read an article whilst typing instead of having to minimize each window to view the other. I dont think I need Crossfire or SLI support because I think I can just put 2 cards in and plug each separate display into a graphics card via HDMI (is this correct?).

I built a system about 2 years ago based on the Intel Core 2 Quad overclocked to 3GHz, but this is starting to get sluggish, I want a system that will give me consistently good performance.


(If I were in the US this exact rig would only cost me $645 but in the UK its £488 or $788)


Intel Core i5-2500k
£157.87 ($254.63)

Arctic Cooling UCACO-AP11301-BUA01 Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler
£10.54 ($17)

ASRock B75 PRO3-M MicroATX
£53.99 ($87)

8GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM
£25.99 ($41.92)

1TB 7200rpm HD SATA 6Gb/s
£52.92 ($85.35)

64GB SSD SATA 6Gb/s
£38.38 ($61.90)

EVGA GeForce GT 610 1GB Video Card (and I'll take the ATI radeon hd 5450 from my old computer to power second display)
£27.13 ($43.76)

Asus Xonar DGX 24-bit 96 KHz Sound Card
£22.74 ($36.68)

Xigmatek Asgard II Black/Orange ATX Mid Tower Case
£26.99 ($43.53)

XFX 550W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply
£49.98 ($80.61)

Samsung SH-222BB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer
£11.96 ($19.29)

Total - £488.47 ($787.87)
October 31, 2012 10:04:46 PM

On that kind of budget you can definitely do better. B75 won't allow you to overclock a 2500K as it strips access to the multiplier. If you're not gaming or running multimedia intensive applications overclocking won't benefit you much. I'd ditch the sound card and SSD, you can always get the SSD later and you don't need a sound card. That Arctic Cooling fan is a definite POS, it's no better than the stock fan.

For that budget I'd get this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3470 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor (£143.38 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: ASRock H77 Pro4/MVP ATX LGA1155 Motherboard (£72.41 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£34.28 @ CCL Computers)
Storage: Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£55.00 @ Ebuyer)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7770 1GB Video Card (£96.88 @ Amazon UK)
Case: NZXT Source 210 (White) ATX Mid Tower Case (£33.47 @ Scan.co.uk)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 500W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply (£47.26 @ CCL Computers)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer (£19.99 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Total: £502.67
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

It's a little bit more but you get a better system in the long run.
October 31, 2012 10:16:53 PM

Okay thanks, but do I really need that video card if I'm just watching movies etc. and only gaming now and then?
Related resources
October 31, 2012 10:39:49 PM

I've changed the RAM to a very similar model (8GB, 1600MHz, CAS 9, with 0.15v higher).
Changed drive to a similar drive except its SATA 6Gb/s
Deleted optical drive because I can use the one out my old computer.
I could also possibly use the 500w PSU from my old computer, would there be any complications with that ?
October 31, 2012 10:56:53 PM

You should be fine to re-use your old power supply and DVD drive. Do you also have an HDD from that machine you can use? If you don't need to buy a new mechanical HDD, you can put that money into the SSD instead.

The 2500k is a generation old, the newer Ivy Bridge chips are an all around slight improvement for about the same cost. The equivalent you would be looking for is the 3570k. In fact, given your usage and that you don't plan to be gaming much, an AMD Trinity setup might serve you better and also save you some cash.

That GT 610 is a pretty bad choice I'd say. If you're only doing light or no gaming on the PC and just doing schoolwork and watching movies, then you should be fine with the integrated graphics built into the CPU and don't need a discrete card at all. This is true for both the Ivy Bridge and Trinity chips.

I would also agree that you should pick up a better HSF if you want to overclock, and that you almost definitely do not need a discrete sound card. Motherboard audio is more than sufficient unless you're a super picky audiophile.
October 31, 2012 11:05:38 PM

1) I think you want a Z77 based motherboard to be able to OC via a simple multiplier increase.

2) The cooler you picked has a 92mm fan and is no better than the stock intel cooler.
A simple tower type cooler like the cm hyper212 will do the job much better and be quieter.

3) The integrated graphics has about the power of a $50 discrete graphics card. That is sufficient for HD playback and non fast action games like civilization. It will support two 1920 x 1200 displays. No discrete graphics card is needed.

4) I think 64gb is too small for a SSD. A ssd will slow down when it nears full.
Get a 120gb ssd. If your storage needs are modest, and can fit in less than 200gb, buy a larger ssd and defer on the hard drive.

5) Integrated HD 7.1 sound is very good. A discrete sound card saves negligible cpu power. Try onboard first. You can always add a sound card later.

6) If you have a 6gb sata port, use it for the ssd. Otherwise, a 6gb port is of little use to mechanical hard drives.

7) Go ahead and use your old 500w psu if it is of decent quality and working well.
You only need about 300w if you do not have a strong discrete graphics card

8) Can you reuse your old case?
October 31, 2012 11:53:52 PM

robbiecee2 said:
Okay thanks, but do I really need that video card if I'm just watching movies etc. and only gaming now and then?


Yes - the integrated graphics are not meant to handle a huge workload. That's why Intel keeps the resolutions low.
November 1, 2012 12:26:21 AM

g-unit1111 said:
Yes - the integrated graphics are not meant to handle a huge workload. That's why Intel keeps the resolutions low.

I think it is just engineering to a price point.
I understand that haswell will support three displays at 2560 x 1600, possibly 4k displays.
In a few years, 4k displays should be available. Prom a PC user point of view, I am all for that.
It is catch 22 if you don't have content readily available for 4k. But high definition faced the same issue and here we are.
We will see.
November 1, 2012 1:11:55 AM

ckholt83 said:
Do you also have an HDD from that machine you can use?


Only a 500GB HD and its 5200rpm and not SATA 6GB/s so a new one will benefit.

ckholt83 said:
I would also agree that you should pick up a better HSF if you want to overclock, and that you almost definitely do not need a discrete sound card. Motherboard audio is more than sufficient unless you're a super picky audiophile.


Changed the HSF and deleted the audio card. Might try your AMD suggestion
November 1, 2012 1:19:59 AM

geofelt said:
1) I think you want a Z77 based motherboard to be able to OC via a simple multiplier increase.

2) The cooler you picked has a 92mm fan and is no better than the stock intel cooler.
A simple tower type cooler like the cm hyper212 will do the job much better and be quieter.



Changed to the ASRock H77 Pro4/MVP Motherboard and changed to that HSF


geofelt said:
3) The integrated graphics has about the power of a $50 discrete graphics card. That is sufficient for HD playback and non fast action games like civilization. It will support two 1920 x 1200 displays. No discrete graphics card is needed.


Would this low end card be ok just to take the pressure off the CPU and since I'm running 2 displays in HD?
http://pcpartpicker.com/uk/part/zotac-video-card-zt6060...

geofelt said:
4) I think 64gb is too small for a SSD. A ssd will slow down when it nears full.
Get a 120gb ssd. If your storage needs are modest, and can fit in less than 200gb, buy a larger ssd and defer on the hard drive.


It's really only to store the operating system on and my most used applications so I get a faster boot up etc.

geofelt said:
5) Integrated HD 7.1 sound is very good. A discrete sound card saves negligible cpu power. Try onboard first. You can always add a sound card later.


removed the sound card


geofelt said:
6) If you have a 6gb sata port, use it for the ssd. Otherwise, a 6gb port is of little use to mechanical hard drives.


There are 4 6GB/s on my newly chosen mobo (http://pcpartpicker.com/uk/part/asrock-motherboard-h77p...)

geofelt said:
]8) Can you reuse your old case?


Nah, I'd like a new case because my old one has a window on the side and the PSU is red LED.. I hated it as soon as I got it lol. I thought it would have been cool but no.
November 1, 2012 1:38:58 AM

What about the AMD Phenom II X6 1045T or AMD FX-6200?
I will reiterate that I only game on PC every now and again but ALWAYS heavily multi-task so I need a processor which does so efficiently.
November 1, 2012 2:05:23 AM

Graphics, be it integrated or discrete does not put any significant extra load on the CPU.
Waay back, graphics processing was done by the cpu, but no longer.
The only reason for a GT610 would be if you wanted to attach monitors that have a resolution greater than 1920 x 1200, or more than two @ 1920 x 1200. I suggest you try integrated first. You can always add a discrete graphics card later if you want to change to PC gaming, or add a third monitor.

If you are a heavy multitasker, then I might suggest a 16gb kit of 2 x 8gb. Ram is cheap, and the more ram you have, the less windows needs to access the hard drive. It lets you keep more of those multiple tasks in ram.
Past 16gb, you need windows 7 pro or ultimate.

And, the SSD is more useful than just for the os. The more you can put on a ssd, the happier you will be. Everything will be quicker.
Start up the task manager now, and I bet you will not see 4 fully loaded cores. That is because the cpu is waiting for work from the hard drive.
Use your old Hard drive for storage and backups, and put everything else on a ssd.

As to fast start up, use sleep to the s3 sleep state instead of a full shutdown. That keeps your contents in ram at very low power. It takes only two seconds to sleep or wake up.
November 1, 2012 2:16:22 AM

For what you are saying, going with an AMD set-up will probably be best. The on-board graphics will be plenty for HD video and mid-level gaming, and the processor will handle whatever you throw at it. All you would need is to chose a case (I left that for you to chose :)  This would probably be the best setup for the least amount of money you can get.
Here is what i came up with:

CPU: AMD A10-5800K Trinity 3.8GHz http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Motherboard: BIOSTAR Hi-Fi A85W (fastest chipset for CPU) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Memory: PNY XLR8 8GB (2 x 4GB) (always go with Dual channel) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
HDD: Western Digital WD Blue WD10EZEX 1TB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
SSD: OCZ Vertex 4 VTX4-25SAT3-128G 2.5" (Very fast) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Video Card: On CPU
Case: Your Choice
Power Supply: OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W (Modular, 600W) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Optical Drive: LG DVD Burner http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Liquid Cooling (optional/or air) : CORSAIR Hydro Series H100 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Air Cooling (Optional/or Liquid) :COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Total: $521.93/£328.49 (not including cooling)

Hope I Helped!!
November 1, 2012 2:20:40 AM

robbiecee2 said:
Only a 500GB HD and its 5200rpm and not SATA 6GB/s so a new one will benefit.


Actually, if you have a decent sized SSD for your OS and primary apps, a new HDD will give you almost no benefit at all for secondary data storage over your existing 5200RPM drive. Mechanical HDD tech kind of hit a plateau for speeds, and even a brand new 7200 RPM drive will have trouble using all the bandwidth of a SATA 3GB/s connection. A 6GB/s port is pretty much unnecessary for a mechanical HDD. I would say skip the new 1TB and up your SSD to at least 120GB, you'll be surprised at how much of a difference it makes. If you're wanting the extra capacity as well, maybe just change that 1TB to a 500GB and use it in conjunction with the old 500GB you already have for a total 1TB of secondary storage. This way you can funnel the money saved into components that will actually make a difference in performance.

robbiecee2 said:
What about the AMD Phenom II X6 1045T or AMD FX-6200?
I will reiterate that I only game on PC every now and again but ALWAYS heavily multi-task so I need a processor which does so efficiently.


The trinity APUs I was talking about are actually newer than those, and they're quite well suited for heavy multithreading / multitasking and productivity on a budget. You would probably want to be looking at something like the A10-5800K, which comes with Radeon 7660D graphics built into the chip: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/amd-a10-5800k-black-edit...
November 1, 2012 2:25:18 AM

jacope said:
For what you are saying, going with an AMD set-up will probably be best. The on-board graphics will be plenty for HD video and mid-level gaming, and the processor will handle whatever you throw at it. All you would need is to chose a case (I left that for you to chose :)  This would probably be the best setup for the least amount of money you can get.
Here is what i came up with:

CPU: AMD A10-5800K Trinity 3.8GHz http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Motherboard: BIOSTAR Hi-Fi A85W (fastest chipset for CPU) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Memory: PNY XLR8 8GB (2 x 4GB) (always go with Dual channel) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
HDD: Western Digital WD Blue WD10EZEX 1TB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
SSD: OCZ Vertex 4 VTX4-25SAT3-128G 2.5" (Very fast) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Video Card: On CPU
Case: Your Choice
Power Supply: OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W (Modular, 600W) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Optical Drive: LG DVD Burner http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Liquid Cooling (optional/or air) : CORSAIR Hydro Series H100 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Air Cooling (Optional/or Liquid) :COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Total: $521.93/£328.49 (not including cooling)

Hope I Helped!!


Okay I'm getting confused with lots of options.. Wouldn't CPU and GPU separate from each other have better performance? Also I would not need Power Supply or Optical Drive because I can take those from my old computer.
November 1, 2012 2:30:38 AM

Sometime yes, but in this case not necessarily. This series of CPU's are made to have really good graphics built in, you can always buy another GPU and combine the onboard graphics and discreet graphics with this processor(keep in mind that only works with certain GPUs) but you shouldnt need to do that. And i guess you can subtract the power supply and optical drive from the price haha
November 1, 2012 2:31:53 AM

ckholt83 said:
Actually, if you have a decent sized SSD for your OS and primary apps, a new HDD will give you almost no benefit at all for secondary data storage over your existing 5200RPM drive. Mechanical HDD tech kind of hit a plateau for speeds, and even a brand new 7200 RPM drive will have trouble using all the bandwidth of a SATA 3GB/s connection. A 6GB/s port is pretty much unnecessary for a mechanical HDD. I would say skip the new 1TB and up your SSD to at least 120GB, you'll be surprised at how much of a difference it makes. If you're wanting the extra capacity as well, maybe just change that 1TB to a 500GB and use it in conjunction with the old 500GB you already have for a total 1TB of secondary storage. This way you can funnel the money saved into components that will actually make a difference in performance.
Okay thanks, I'll up the SSD and get a 500GB HDD AND use my old one too.


2790211,14,1245274 said:
The trinity APUs I was talking about are actually newer than those, and they're quite well suited for heavy multithreading / multitasking and productivity on a budget. You would probably want to be looking at something like the A10-5800K, which comes with Radeon 7660D graphics built into the chip: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/amd-a10-5800k-black-edit...
[/quote]
said:


Yea I just realised that lol. Where do the video inputs go because I dont see any on motherboards.
I'm now starting my 4th build list of today on pcpartpicker lol !
November 1, 2012 2:32:48 AM

A separate GPU typically offers better performance, but the integrated CPU graphics are getting better and better these days. Considering that the discrete graphics card you're talking about getting is a dinky GT610, I think you're actually better off using the integrated Trinity 7660D.

Here, take a look at this article and it may answer some of your questions: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/trinity-gaming-perf...
November 1, 2012 2:35:40 AM

There is only one motherboard on pcpartpicker and Ebuyer with A85x chipset and its £100... can I go to A75?
November 1, 2012 2:55:51 AM

Okay, here is probably the way to save the most money:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD A10-5800K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor (£93.10 @ Scan.co.uk)
Motherboard: ASRock FM2A75 Pro4 ATX FM2 Motherboard (£65.99 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£30.76 @ CCL Computers)
Storage: Samsung Spinpoint F3 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£25.66 @ Dabs)
Storage: Crucial M4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£77.20 @ Amazon UK)
Case: Xigmatek Asgard II Black/Orange ATX Mid Tower Case (£26.99 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Total: £319.70
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

This is with the case you picked out from before and assuming that you will re-use your PSU, DVD Drive, and your 500GB HDD for a total of 1TB secondary storage. Based on your projected usage, I think this will do everything you need and save you the most money.

If instead you want to overbuild a bit and don't mind spending more money to be absolutely sure your rig can handle your needs and then some, this setup is only slightly more expensive than your original build, but significantly more capable:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£168.61 @ CCL Computers)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (£23.99 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77-DS3H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard (£71.05 @ CCL Computers)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£30.76 @ CCL Computers)
Storage: Samsung Spinpoint F3 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£25.66 @ Dabs)
Storage: Crucial M4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£77.20 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon HD 7770 1GB Video Card (£76.99 @ Amazon UK)
Case: Xigmatek Asgard II Black/Orange ATX Mid Tower Case (£26.99 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Total: £501.25
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

This is again assuming you will re-use your PSU, DVD drive, and HDD. This setup is also designed for overclocking, and you could trim a fair bit of cost by removing that option.
November 1, 2012 3:05:23 AM

ckholt83 said:
Okay, here is probably the way to save the most money:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD A10-5800K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor (£93.10 @ Scan.co.uk)
Motherboard: ASRock FM2A75 Pro4 ATX FM2 Motherboard (£65.99 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£30.76 @ CCL Computers)
Storage: Samsung Spinpoint F3 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£25.66 @ Dabs)
Storage: Crucial M4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£77.20 @ Amazon UK)
Case: Xigmatek Asgard II Black/Orange ATX Mid Tower Case (£26.99 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Total: £319.70
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

This is with the case you picked out from before and assuming that you will re-use your PSU, DVD Drive, and your 500GB HDD for a total of 1TB secondary storage. Based on your projected usage, I think this will do everything you need and save you the most money.

If instead you want to overbuild a bit and don't mind spending more money to be absolutely sure your rig can handle your needs and then some, this setup is only slightly more expensive than your original build, but significantly more capable:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£168.61 @ CCL Computers)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (£23.99 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77-DS3H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard (£71.05 @ CCL Computers)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£30.76 @ CCL Computers)
Storage: Samsung Spinpoint F3 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£25.66 @ Dabs)
Storage: Crucial M4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£77.20 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon HD 7770 1GB Video Card (£76.99 @ Amazon UK)
Case: Xigmatek Asgard II Black/Orange ATX Mid Tower Case (£26.99 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Total: £501.25
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

This is again assuming you will re-use your PSU, DVD drive, and HDD. This setup is also designed for overclocking, and you could trim a fair bit of cost by removing that option.


Thanks very much, I've tweeked your first list with the AMD processor and got it to £294.72.
Could you confirm that the on board graphics could power 2 displays at 1080p or 1200 (would this have to be via 1 HDMI and 1 VGA because there is only 1 HDMI out). And would I be better getting a Radeon HD 6670 for one of the displays to take some load off the APU?

Thanks a lot!
November 1, 2012 4:19:17 PM

The FX series processors dont have any on-chip graphics, but the 6670 and fx 6200 will bemore expensive, about equivalent to the A10-5800k, and really the only noticeable difference between A75 and A85x is that A85x can support more SATA 6gb ports. But if you go with A75 make sure it is with the FM2 socket, not FM1 (FM1 is for the last gen APUs)
November 1, 2012 4:25:54 PM

And the Biostar Motherboard in my original post has HDMI, VGA and DVI video outputs
!