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Now I want to stage a battle in a bamboo forest

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Anonymous
May 23, 2004 4:21:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/awards/cannes/revi...


House of Flying Daggers
By Kirk Honeycutt


CANNES -- Now that he feels comfortable with wuxia, or martial arts movies,
following "Hero" -- his first foray into the genre, which Miramax has yet
to release in North America -- Chinese master Zhang Yimou creates a gem in
"House of Flying Daggers."

While the action sequences are right up there with "Crouching Tiger, Hidden
Dragon," Zhang uses the genre to relate a touching and tragic tale about
star-crossed lovers caught up with forces that threaten to overwhelm them.
Filming with an international cast in China and the Ukraine, the director
lets the action unfold amid landscapes so beautiful they feel like
paintings.

The film is certain to be a worldwide hit, but whether it will approach the
boxoffice figures of the "Crouching Tiger" phenomenon is an open question.
Certainly, Western audiences hungering for more have a great meal headed
their way. Sony Pictures Classics has domestic rights.

Set in the year 859 in the waning days of the now-corrupt Tang Dynasty, the
central force in the film is a shadowy revolutionary alliance known as the
House of Flying Daggers. Their leader has been assassinated, but a
mysterious new leader has already replaced him.

Two local deputies are ordered to capture this leader within 10 days, a
virtually impossible task. Capt. Leo (Hong Kong superstar Andy Lau)
suspects that Mei ("Crouching Tiger's" Zhang Ziyi), a new and beautiful
blind dancer at the nearby Peony Pavilion, is actually the daughter of the
old leader seeking revenge. Capt. Jin (Japanese-Taiwanese star Takeshi
Kaneshiro) goes to the brothel, where he drunkenly flirts with Mei, and
they both get "arrested" by Leo.

When Mei refuses to talk even under threat of torture, Leo suggests that
Jin rescue her while pretending to be a lone warrior who calls himself the
Wind. The two flee, and the plan appears to work when, after a couple of
spectacular battles between the couple and pursuing troops, Mei accepts
Jin's faked identity.

The two head north, presumably toward the headquarters of the House of
Flying Daggers. But no one is who he or she appears to be, and danger lurks
everywhere. What no one anticipated, however, is that Mei and Jin would
fall for each other, which causes everyone's schemes to crumble. When Jin
must fight and kill his fellow soldiers for real and Mei finds herself
asked to kill Jin, the divided loyalties reach their zenith.

Paying tribute to wuxia master King Hu, whose three-hour epic "A Touch of
Zen" won a technical prize at Cannes in 1969, director Zhang honors all the
conventions of the genre, including his own battle in the bamboo forest.
The twist here is that the troops occupy the treetops, hurling sharpened
bamboo down on the heroes who must fight and run on the ground.

As the title promises, knives and daggers zip through the air with balletic
force. Flying daggers twist, plunge, ricochet and change directions.
Employing the latest film technology and the most acrobatic suit people in
the Chinese and Hong Kong film industries, Zhang Yimou has objects and
people defy gravity in ways Hu could only dream about.

A dance sequence early in the movie featuring Zhang Ziyi and what appears
to be a stunt double in some shots telegraphs viewers that the director
means to raise the action bar in all areas. That he does so while keeping
the story firmly rooted in the developing love between two people
desperately fighting their own instincts is a tribute to his cinematic
mastery.

Dashing Kaneshiro and hauntingly beautiful Zhang Ziyi convincingly convey
the vulnerability of a couple battling inner emotions so that they will not
fall in love. For Mei, the conflict is deepened by the fact that, unknown
to Jin, she already has a lover who shadows and protects her. That lover is
Lau's wily Leo, a man who will stop at nothing to keep her alive for him
and for him alone.

Cinematographer Zhao Xiaoding's rendering of the rural locations is thing
of pure magic. Shigeru Umebayashi's music, Chinese with Western
modulations, well serves the movie's epic quality. Emi Wada's costumes
blend in magnificently with the countryside, while editor Cheng Long gives
a thrilling rhythm to action director Tony Ching Siu-Tung's intricate fight
choreography.



--
Hong Ooi | "Well, that about WANGER up the
hong@zipworld.com.au | WANGER of your WANGER, Hong.
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ | WANGER."
Sydney, Australia | -- MSB
Anonymous
May 23, 2004 4:21:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

YM "Now I want to stage a battle between D&D fans and White Wolf fans,"
Hong.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
Anonymous
May 23, 2004 4:21:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Stephenls wrote:
>
> YM "Now I want to stage a battle between D&D fans and White Wolf fans,"
> Hong.

Ah, Joystarr.

- Ron ^*^
Anonymous
May 23, 2004 9:07:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On Sat, 22 May 2004 09:31:20 -0700, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:

>YM "Now I want to stage a battle between D&D fans and White Wolf fans,"
>Hong.

Well, that could be fun too.

But really, after the love that Hero is getting from the Exalted fans here
and on RPGnet, how is this not relevant to agww?


--
Hong Ooi | "Well, that about WANGER up the
hong@zipworld.com.au | WANGER of your WANGER, Hong.
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ | WANGER."
Sydney, Australia | -- MSB
Anonymous
May 23, 2004 9:08:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Hong Ooi wrote:

> Well, that could be fun too.

> But really, after the love that Hero is getting from the Exalted fans here
> and on RPGnet, how is this not relevant to agww?

Oh, it's completely relevant.

I'm just wondering how it's relevant to D&D. Everyone knows you can't
use D&D to simulate that sort of thing.
--
Stephenls
"Troll."
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
Anonymous
May 23, 2004 11:04:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On Sun, 23 May 2004 01:41:41 -0700, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:

>Hong Ooi wrote:
>
>> Well, that could be fun too.
>
>> But really, after the love that Hero is getting from the Exalted fans here
>> and on RPGnet, how is this not relevant to agww?
>
>Oh, it's completely relevant.
>
>I'm just wondering how it's relevant to D&D. Everyone knows you can't
>use D&D to simulate that sort of thing.

This demonstrates a *CLEAR* and *ABSOLUTE* lack of *UNDERSTANDING* about
the underlying paradigm of D&D. HAVE YOU EVEN READ THE RULEBOOKS, *MORON*?
And are you even *AWARE* of the current *ASTERISK* SHORTAGE?


Hong "... or were you being serious?" Ooi
--
Hong Ooi | "Well, that about WANGER up the
hong@zipworld.com.au | WANGER of your WANGER, Hong.
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ | WANGER."
Sydney, Australia | -- MSB
Anonymous
May 23, 2004 11:04:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Hong Ooi wrote:

> This demonstrates a *CLEAR* and *ABSOLUTE* lack of *UNDERSTANDING* about
> the underlying paradigm of D&D. HAVE YOU EVEN READ THE RULEBOOKS, *MORON*?
> And are you even *AWARE* of the current *ASTERISK* SHORTAGE?

> Hong "... or were you being serious?" Ooi

Well, partially serious. I get the feeling that having characters run
around in three dimensions in a forest /a la/ Crouching Tiger, Hidden
Dragon is something D&D would model badly without house rules (while in
comparison it's the sort of thing Exalted is built to model). It'd be
what, a Balance or Climb check every round? I don't believe you can
climb as a free action during the same round that one fights, but that's
what they seemed to be doing.

Mostly I just wanted something that'd get another D&D player riled up
enough to start insulting Exalted. As long as we're engaged in
agww/rgfd crossposts, we might as well have fun with USENET tradition.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
Anonymous
May 23, 2004 11:04:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Hong Ooi <hong@zipworld.com.au> wrote in message news:<98oua01rf6a43f6cu57ldf3be2mat4kv26@4ax.com>...
> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/awards/cannes/revi...
>
>
> House of Flying Daggers
> By Kirk Honeycutt
>
>
> CANNES -- Now that he feels comfortable with wuxia, or martial arts movies,
> following "Hero" -- his first foray into the genre, which Miramax has yet
> to release in North America -- Chinese master Zhang Yimou creates a gem in
> "House of Flying Daggers."
>
Sweet!!

Personally, I loved Hero and can't wait to watch it on the big
screen...I enjoyed it more than CTHD and cheer every time I see the
preview in the theatres, even tho the narrator's voiceover misleads
one into thinking the plot is alot more straightforward and cliche
than it really is...

I've read Geoff's comments on the film, and while I agree
wholeheartedly with his praise of the visuals and action, I wonder if
he's being a bit harsh on the director's political ideals. Do we know
for a fact that he's just making a movie effectively praising Shih
Huang for gain? Maybe he is, but he *could* honestly believe in that,
however unlikely...

Besides which, *every* civilization is built by hard, ruthless men on
the misery and suffering of millions. Julius Caesar is praised by
Western historians for his genius and accomplishments, yet the man
deliberately committed genocide in Gaul--for votes back in Rome.
Further back, for all the achievement of Alexander "the Great"'s
unifying the known world under the umbrella of Hellenistic culture,
everyone forgets how the world of the average person must have been
thrown into turmoil by his "visionary" actions (Alexander used to
officiate over mass marriages of his soldiers and women native to the
lands he conquered; essentially institutionalized mass rape).

Yet ALL our modern civilizations are built on the legacy of such
actions. Is it really possible for us to condemn such events, when our
world is based upon, or at least would be very different, without
them? Is that hypocrisy?

Regardless, I'm looking forward to Zhang Ziyi's dancing--I hear that's
what she did before getting into acting...^^

Dex,
sad that Yuen Wo Ping won't be involved, tho...
Anonymous
May 24, 2004 12:00:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On Sun, 23 May 2004 02:40:51 -0700, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:

>Hong Ooi wrote:
>
>> This demonstrates a *CLEAR* and *ABSOLUTE* lack of *UNDERSTANDING* about
>> the underlying paradigm of D&D. HAVE YOU EVEN READ THE RULEBOOKS, *MORON*?
>> And are you even *AWARE* of the current *ASTERISK* SHORTAGE?
>
>> Hong "... or were you being serious?" Ooi
>
>Well, partially serious. I get the feeling that having characters run
>around in three dimensions in a forest /a la/ Crouching Tiger, Hidden
>Dragon is something D&D would model badly without house rules (while in
>comparison it's the sort of thing Exalted is built to model). It'd be
>what, a Balance or Climb check every round? I don't believe you can
>climb as a free action during the same round that one fights, but that's
>what they seemed to be doing.

Psst. Fly spell. Winged boots. ;) 

>
>Mostly I just wanted something that'd get another D&D player riled up
>enough to start insulting Exalted. As long as we're engaged in
>agww/rgfd crossposts, we might as well have fun with USENET tradition.

You'd have to check the newsgroups: line for that, Shirley.


--
Hong Ooi | "Well, that about WANGER up the
hong@zipworld.com.au | WANGER of your WANGER, Hong.
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ | WANGER."
Sydney, Australia | -- MSB
Anonymous
May 24, 2004 12:00:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Hong Ooi wrote:

> Psst. Fly spell. Winged boots. ;) 

True. They were probably playing with the rule from that one issue of
Dragon about running wuxia, where everyone who's level 10 or higher gets
the Fly spell for free as a constant effect.

> You'd have to check the newsgroups: line for that, Shirley.

Drat and double-drat.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
Anonymous
May 24, 2004 2:25:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On Sun, 23 May 2004 02:57:11 -0700, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:

>Hong Ooi wrote:
>
>> Psst. Fly spell. Winged boots. ;) 
>
>True. They were probably playing with the rule from that one issue of
>Dragon about running wuxia, where everyone who's level 10 or higher gets
>the Fly spell for free as a constant effect.

Heck, you don't even need that. Even in by-the-book D&D, being able to take
things into 3 dimensions is so useful that most PCs are likely to have
flight items by 15th level or so. The real sticking point would be how
items are the main mechanism by which such powers are obtained, at least
for the non-spellcasting characters.

>
>> You'd have to check the newsgroups: line for that, Shirley.
>
>Drat and double-drat.

Heh heh.


--
Hong Ooi | "Well, that about WANGER up the
hong@zipworld.com.au | WANGER of your WANGER, Hong.
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ | WANGER."
Sydney, Australia | -- MSB
Anonymous
May 24, 2004 2:25:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On Sun, 23 May 2004 22:25:20 +1000, Hong Ooi <hong@zipworld.com.au>
wrote:

>On Sun, 23 May 2004 02:57:11 -0700, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>>Hong Ooi wrote:
>>
>>> Psst. Fly spell. Winged boots. ;) 
>>
>>True. They were probably playing with the rule from that one issue of
>>Dragon about running wuxia, where everyone who's level 10 or higher gets
>>the Fly spell for free as a constant effect.
>
>Heck, you don't even need that. Even in by-the-book D&D, being able to take
>things into 3 dimensions is so useful that most PCs are likely to have
>flight items by 15th level or so.

Actually flying doesn't have the same feel, though. In Wuxia films,
people have to land after every combat exchange, although many
combat exchanges would be several "turns" long.
Anonymous
May 24, 2004 3:49:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On Sun, 23 May 2004 22:25:20 +1000, Hong Ooi <hong@zipworld.com.au> wrote:

>On Sun, 23 May 2004 02:57:11 -0700, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>>Hong Ooi wrote:
>>
>>> Psst. Fly spell. Winged boots. ;) 
>>
>>True. They were probably playing with the rule from that one issue of
>>Dragon about running wuxia, where everyone who's level 10 or higher gets
>>the Fly spell for free as a constant effect.
>
>Heck, you don't even need that. Even in by-the-book D&D, being able to take
>things into 3 dimensions is so useful that most PCs are likely to have
>flight items by 15th level or so. The real sticking point would be how
>items are the main mechanism by which such powers are obtained, at least
>for the non-spellcasting characters.

.... Storyteller D&D. I see a great need.


Hong "what size dice pool do you need for a fireball, anyway?" Ooi
--
Hong Ooi | "Well, that about WANGER up the
hong@zipworld.com.au | WANGER of your WANGER, Hong.
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ | WANGER."
Sydney, Australia | -- MSB
Anonymous
May 24, 2004 3:49:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Hong Ooi" <hong@zipworld.com.au> wrote in message
news:c4a1b0lqcfgoulrs6h212el11p5lfjqkkf@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 23 May 2004 22:25:20 +1000, Hong Ooi <hong@zipworld.com.au> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 23 May 2004 02:57:11 -0700, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
> >
> >>Hong Ooi wrote:
> >>
> >>> Psst. Fly spell. Winged boots. ;) 
> >>
> >>True. They were probably playing with the rule from that one issue of
> >>Dragon about running wuxia, where everyone who's level 10 or higher gets
> >>the Fly spell for free as a constant effect.
> >
> >Heck, you don't even need that. Even in by-the-book D&D, being able to
take
> >things into 3 dimensions is so useful that most PCs are likely to have
> >flight items by 15th level or so. The real sticking point would be how
> >items are the main mechanism by which such powers are obtained, at least
> >for the non-spellcasting characters.
>
> ... Storyteller D&D. I see a great need.
>
>
> Hong "what size dice pool do you need for a fireball, anyway?" Ooi

Probably not much - Death of Obsidian Butterflies already tops Meteor Swarm,
and it's the most basic offensive spell in the book. ;) 

- David Prokopetz.
Anonymous
May 24, 2004 3:49:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Hong Ooi" <hong@zipworld.com.au> wrote in message
> On Sun, 23 May 2004 22:25:20 +1000, Hong Ooi <hong@zipworld.com.au> wrote:
> >On Sun, 23 May 2004 02:57:11 -0700, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
> >>Hong Ooi wrote:

> >>> Psst. Fly spell. Winged boots. ;) 

Magic's cheating, and there is no reason for the user to touch
the bamboo in those cases. Besides, everyone know this is why
Equilibrium Adjustment exists. :p 


> >>True. They were probably playing with the rule from that one issue of
> >>Dragon about running wuxia, where everyone who's level 10 or higher gets
> >>the Fly spell for free as a constant effect.
> >
> >Heck, you don't even need that. Even in by-the-book D&D, being able to take
> >things into 3 dimensions is so useful that most PCs are likely to have
> >flight items by 15th level or so. The real sticking point would be how
> >items are the main mechanism by which such powers are obtained, at least
> >for the non-spellcasting characters.

If I wanted to run a wuxia D&D game, I'd start by opening up the
monk class - in fact, making it deliberately unbalanced. What I
get from wuxia is that secret knowledge kicks ass, and balance is
only a factor among different styles of kung fu. I would use the
feats system and give monk characters a feat every other level,
like fighters, but create a set of ki feats that they must choose
from for these feats. In fact, I'd consider rewriting monks so
that some of their basic abilities become ki feats, so you can
skip the ones that don't fit your character concept to learn the
ones that do earlier.

For wuxia effects, I'd probably do this as three feats - one is
enough to walk over a surface while leaving virtually no trace,
as if wearing Elven Boots, or slow one's fall. A second feat
would build on this and allow running up walls or make a long
soaring leap and a third feat would allow running along with only
occasional dream-like steps against any surface (including water)
or standing on a stalk of bamboo.

At the same time, you can have other ki feats that allow a monk
to toughen his skin into iron, wield a sash as a weapon (using it
as a whip with one feat, twisting it so tightly it can be used as
a staff or a spear with another), make deadly Dim Make strikes at
pressure points, etc.

I have only scratched the surface of the tsunami of D20 material
out there - I'd be surprised if someone hasn't already done this.


> ... Storyteller D&D. I see a great need.

I think there's more interest in bringing Wuxia into the WoD.
I have been meaning to post a story seed for "The Five Deadly
Sciences," in which Son of Ether polymath is dying (having been
reduced to a brain in a tank of nutrient solution by the ravages
of Paradox). His conscience bothers him and he asks his last
student, which he has instructed in all the sciences he knows,
to seek out his former pupils and ensure they are using Science
for good rather than evil.

The fist is a materials scientist, skilled in creating living
plastics and memory metals; he was trained along with a biologist
adept in genetic engineering and mutational morphologies. The
third pupil was instructed in what the master learned from the
Goro monks in the area of the psionic disicplines. The fourth
and fifth students knew each other - the fourth was trained in
high-energy physics and low-energy entropic principles, while
the fifth studied the nature of space-time and extradimensional
sciences.

While the sixth student is not strong enough to take on any one
of them, he will make a valuable ally for his varied scientific
knowledge, so he may succeed if even just one of the pupils is
worthy. All of the former students have gone into hiding as a
result of the Ascension War and its aftermath, and the only lead
the sixth pupil has is that his mentor's old friend may be able
to help him in his quest. If they have turned to evil, the old
friend's vast capital of tass and collected research might serve
as a lure to draw them out....


Vis Sierra
May 24, 2004 3:49:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Vis Sierra wrote:

>
> I think there's more interest in bringing Wuxia into the WoD.

<snip>

That's damn cool.

Are you offering to run this, and where could I sign up?

William
Anonymous
May 24, 2004 3:49:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

William <wilit0613@postoffice.uri.edu> wrote:
> Vis Sierra wrote:

> > I think there's more interest in bringing Wuxia into the WoD.
>
> <snip>
>
> That's damn cool.
>
> Are you offering to run this, and where could I sign up?

Sorry, I am slowly fading from the WoD scene and haven't run a
game (any game, alas) in a long time. Thanks for the interest,
though.

By the way, this is an adaptation of the kung fu classic, The
Five Deadly Venoms...and really doesn't have much to do with
bringing wuxia into the WoD aside from the lizard-style pupil
was able to run up walls in the original. Still, the whole
'secret knowledge' aspect of wuxia fits perfectly with Mage
so well that its stories should translate at least as well as
samurai stories do to westerns.


> William

Vis Sierra
Anonymous
May 24, 2004 3:55:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Hand-of-Omega wrote:
> I've read Geoff's comments on the film, and while I agree
> wholeheartedly with his praise of the visuals and action, I wonder if
> he's being a bit harsh on the director's political ideals. Do we know
> for a fact that he's just making a movie effectively praising Shih
> Huang for gain? Maybe he is, but he *could* honestly believe in that,
> however unlikely...

The movie was made in Communist China, where all major films are
"state-sponsored" and vetted by the Party. In fact, Hero is just the sort
of movie that a lot of HK film-makers were afraid would be made after the
hand-over. While it is a beautiful film, I have to agree with Geoff in this
instance.

--
J. H. Frank
Anonymous
May 24, 2004 4:33:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Vis Sierra"
> "Hong Ooi"

> > ... Storyteller D&D. I see a great need.

> I think there's more interest in bringing Wuxia into the WoD.
> I have been meaning to post a story seed for "The Five Deadly
> Sciences," in which Son of Ether polymath is dying (having been
> reduced to a brain in a tank of nutrient solution by the ravages
> of Paradox). His conscience bothers him and he asks his last
> student, which he has instructed in all the sciences he knows,
> to seek out his former pupils and ensure they are using Science
> for good rather than evil.

> The fist is a materials scientist, skilled in creating living
> plastics and memory metals; he was trained along with a biologist
> adept in genetic engineering and mutational morphologies. The
> third pupil was instructed in what the master learned from the
> Goro monks in the area of the psionic disicplines. The fourth
> and fifth students knew each other - the fourth was trained in
> high-energy physics and low-energy entropic principles, while
> the fifth studied the nature of space-time and extradimensional
> sciences.

> While the sixth student is not strong enough to take on any one
> of them, he will make a valuable ally for his varied scientific
> knowledge, so he may succeed if even just one of the pupils is
> worthy. All of the former students have gone into hiding as a
> result of the Ascension War and its aftermath, and the only lead
> the sixth pupil has is that his mentor's old friend may be able
> to help him in his quest. If they have turned to evil, the old
> friend's vast capital of tass and collected research might serve
> as a lure to draw them out....

Hm. That's kinda neat. Though it took all of four seconds for my brain to
take this all and go "But instead of an Etherite, he's an old Alchemical
Exalted!..." and I kinda went off all half-cocked.
Anonymous
May 24, 2004 7:10:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On 23 May 2004 19:04:37 -0700, smilinglord@hotmail.com (Hand-of-Omega)
wrote:

>
>Besides which, *every* civilization is built by hard, ruthless men on
>the misery and suffering of millions. Julius Caesar is praised by
>Western historians for his genius and accomplishments,

Pfeh. Not in the last 40 or so years.
Anonymous
May 24, 2004 9:42:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

In article <26b2b0d04ns5v6r0i41qpe8h54p82ihve2@4ax.com>,
Vis Sierra <visitant@geocities.com> wrote:

> If I wanted to run a wuxia D&D game, I'd start by opening up the
> monk class - in fact, making it deliberately unbalanced. What I
> get from wuxia is that secret knowledge kicks ass, and balance is
> only a factor among different styles of kung fu. I would use the
> feats system and give monk characters a feat every other level,
> like fighters, but create a set of ki feats that they must choose
> from for these feats. In fact, I'd consider rewriting monks so
> that some of their basic abilities become ki feats, so you can
> skip the ones that don't fit your character concept to learn the
> ones that do earlier.

I might call this a "martial artist," and host it on my website. Also,
it's possible I would ban everything.

--p
Anonymous
May 24, 2004 12:37:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Vis Sierra" <visitant@geocities.com> wrote in message
news:26b2b0d04ns5v6r0i41qpe8h54p82ihve2@4ax.com...

<snip>

> I have only scratched the surface of the tsunami of D20 material
> out there - I'd be surprised if someone hasn't already done this.

Don't be surpised: get thee "Beyond Monks - the Art of the Fight" by
Chainmail Bikini Games. It's pretty much got what you want: feats for
impossible surfaces, Ki Blasting, prestige classes for different combat
styles etc. You might have to tweak it a bit, though. As-is, it's slightly
imbalanced, but of course you want it to be *totally* imbalanced with
respect to fighters, wizards etc.

--
Gieljan
<remove BZZ to reply>

Today I wear these chains, and am here.
Tomorrow, I shall be fetterless! - But where?
Edgar Allan Poe - The Imp of the Perverse
Anonymous
May 24, 2004 11:04:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

[snip ranting]

D'oh!! Sorry, D&Ders...caught the crossposting too late, meant that
for the WW crowd. Apologies; you can go back to your abnormally
high-numbered dice now!^__^

Dex
Drat and double-drat, as Stephenls would say...
Anonymous
May 25, 2004 1:07:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On Mon, 24 May 2004 05:42:30 GMT, William Burke <passengerpigeon@email.com>
wrote:

>In article <26b2b0d04ns5v6r0i41qpe8h54p82ihve2@4ax.com>,
> Vis Sierra <visitant@geocities.com> wrote:
>
>> If I wanted to run a wuxia D&D game, I'd start by opening up the
>> monk class - in fact, making it deliberately unbalanced. What I
>> get from wuxia is that secret knowledge kicks ass, and balance is
>> only a factor among different styles of kung fu. I would use the
>> feats system and give monk characters a feat every other level,
>> like fighters, but create a set of ki feats that they must choose
>> from for these feats. In fact, I'd consider rewriting monks so
>> that some of their basic abilities become ki feats, so you can
>> skip the ones that don't fit your character concept to learn the
>> ones that do earlier.
>
>I might call this a "martial artist," and host it on my website. Also,
>it's possible I would ban everything.

I think I've just out-injoked myself.


--
Hong Ooi | "Well, that about WANGER up the
hong@zipworld.com.au | WANGER of your WANGER, Hong.
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ | WANGER."
Sydney, Australia | -- MSB
Anonymous
May 25, 2004 1:59:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Gieljan de Vries" <gieljanBZZdeBZZvries@planet.nl> wrote:
> "Vis Sierra" <visitant@geocities.com> wrote in message

> > I have only scratched the surface of the tsunami of D20 material
> > out there - I'd be surprised if someone hasn't already done this.
>
> Don't be surpised: get thee "Beyond Monks - the Art of the Fight" by
> Chainmail Bikini Games. It's pretty much got what you want: feats for
> impossible surfaces, Ki Blasting, prestige classes for different combat
> styles etc. You might have to tweak it a bit, though. As-is, it's slightly
> imbalanced, but of course you want it to be *totally* imbalanced with
> respect to fighters, wizards etc.

Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if someone had done it, but
I'd be surprised if someone hadn't.

I accidentally found another through Google while looking for
non-D&D wuxia, so I expect there are quite a few versions out
there:
http://www.lorax.org/~cwarren/rpg/wudan.html


Vis Sierra
May 25, 2004 4:50:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On 24 May 2004 19:04:41 -0700, smilinglord@hotmail.com (Hand-of-Omega)
raised a finger to the sky and proclaimed:

>[snip ranting]
>
>D'oh!! Sorry, D&Ders...caught the crossposting too late, meant that
>for the WW crowd. Apologies; you can go back to your abnormally
>high-numbered dice now!^__^
>
>Dex
>Drat and double-drat, as Stephenls would say...

*Everyone* knows that dice were meant to go from 1 to 2, as God
intended.

--
Either way, I hate you Count Chocula, if I didn't already.
- Drifter Bob, rec.games.frp.dnd
Anonymous
May 26, 2004 12:13:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd,alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Mouse <mail141023@pop.net.invalid> wrote:
>smilinglord@hotmail.com (Hand-of-Omega) wrote:
>>[snip ranting]
>>D'oh!! Sorry, D&Ders...caught the crossposting too late, meant that
>>for the WW crowd. Apologies; you can go back to your abnormally
>>high-numbered dice now!^__^
>
>*Everyone* knows that dice were meant to go from 1 to 2, as God
>intended.

Don't you mean "from 0 to 1"?

--
01101111 01000100 01100001 01101110 01100100 01101100
Anonymous
May 26, 2004 3:51:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Shu Lien can walk on walls.
Anonymous
May 26, 2004 3:51:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"pikathulhu" <pikapika@thulhu.net> wrote:

> Shu Lien can walk on walls.

Hm. I think I remember her running up a corner, alternating
walls Jackie Chan-style, but not flying. IIRC she pulls Jen
back down to her repeatedly during the first fight until Jen
escapes flying straight up a wall that Shu Lien can't follow.

Jackie Chan makes an interesting parallel; up until recently,
his style's been incredible but /possible/. In The Medallion
and The Tuxedo, he has been doing some flying of his own, but
even in the story it was with the aid of magic or technology.

Maybe I am seeing things, but it seems to me that much of the
time, there's some reason characters can perform wirework, be
it they're in a computer generated world (The Matrix), or are
mutants (X-Men). In most of the wuxia I've seen, and I admit
I haven't made an exhaustive survey, it's rare for someone to
be able to 'fly' even when everyone seems to know martial arts.
Only students of powerful and secret martial arts or monks who
have devoted their lives to studying it can do stuff like that.

I've seen exceptions (I seem to recall another film that had a
fight in a bamboo forest in which ninja-like assassins flitted
about the foliage), but don't expect me to provide on examples
that undermine my point. ;) 

Regardless, I should've watched it again to refresh my memory
before posting. Looks like tonight's movie-night at my house.


Vis Sierra
Anonymous
May 26, 2004 3:51:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Vis Sierra <visitant@geocities.com> wrote:
> "pikathulhu" <pikapika@thulhu.net> wrote:

> > Shu Lien can walk on walls.
>
> Hm. I think I remember her running up a corner, alternating
> walls Jackie Chan-style, but not flying. IIRC she pulls Jen
> back down to her repeatedly during the first fight until Jen
> escapes flying straight up a wall that Shu Lien can't follow.

Damn. You're right. I'm wrong.

I hate it when that happens.

The first fight does make it clear that she knows more about
Wudan fighting than your average fighter, but I can't really
make an argument that she picked up any of that secret knowledge
I was going on about from Li Mu Bai.

Well...it was a good theory while it lasted.


Vis Sierra
Anonymous
May 26, 2004 11:55:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Vis Sierra <visitant@geocities.com> wrote in message news:<7448b0d179ul4a72m9jrddt8dj8cma2u68@4ax.com>...

> Jackie Chan makes an interesting parallel; up until recently,
> his style's been incredible but /possible/. In The Medallion
> and The Tuxedo, he has been doing some flying of his own, but
> even in the story it was with the aid of magic or technology.

Haven't seen The Tuxedo, but in The Medallaion, Chan is clearly doing
wirework
even *before* he gets the damned thing; one of MANY reasons I detested
that movie...
>
> Maybe I am seeing things, but it seems to me that much of the
> time, there's some reason characters can perform wirework, be
> it they're in a computer generated world (The Matrix), or are
> mutants (X-Men).

In *good* movies, this is true. Unfortunately, it seems many Hollywood
execs just figured "Hey, people liked it when they flew in the Matrix
and Crouching Tiger, right? So make `em fly here!"

Actually, I'd argue that even just being a mutant shouldn't allow one
to defy gravity or physics, unless that is provided for by one's
power, not just the fact that one is Heroic. This is leaving aside the
atrocious wire choreography in the X-movie (I still shudder when
watching that Mystique scene...).

> In most of the wuxia I've seen, and I admit
> I haven't made an exhaustive survey, it's rare for someone to
> be able to 'fly' even when everyone seems to know martial arts.
> Only students of powerful and secret martial arts or monks who
> have devoted their lives to studying it can do stuff like that.
>
Eh, I've seen a few. There's no indication that Maggie Cheung's
character in Dragon Inn had any special training, but she can Do The
Dew. I'm willing to give Eastern period films a little more slack in
this regard...

> I've seen exceptions (I seem to recall another film that had a
> fight in a bamboo forest in which ninja-like assassins flitted
> about the foliage), but don't expect me to provide on examples
> that undermine my point. ;) 
>
<G>

> Regardless, I should've watched it again to refresh my memory
> before posting. Looks like tonight's movie-night at my house.
>
What HK flicks do you have?

Dex,
noting that The Vampire Effect is now available here...
Anonymous
May 27, 2004 5:32:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Hand-of-Omega" <smilinglord@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:27420f11.0405261855.1beb2e5e@posting.google.com...
> Vis Sierra <visitant@geocities.com> wrote in message
news:<7448b0d179ul4a72m9jrddt8dj8cma2u68@4ax.com>...
>
> > Jackie Chan makes an interesting parallel; up until recently,
> > his style's been incredible but /possible/. In The Medallion
> > and The Tuxedo, he has been doing some flying of his own, but
> > even in the story it was with the aid of magic or technology.
>
> Haven't seen The Tuxedo, but in The Medallaion, Chan is clearly doing
> wirework
> even *before* he gets the damned thing; one of MANY reasons I detested
> that movie...
> >
> > Maybe I am seeing things, but it seems to me that much of the
> > time, there's some reason characters can perform wirework, be
> > it they're in a computer generated world (The Matrix), or are
> > mutants (X-Men).
>
> In *good* movies, this is true. Unfortunately, it seems many Hollywood
> execs just figured "Hey, people liked it when they flew in the Matrix
> and Crouching Tiger, right? So make `em fly here!"
>
> Actually, I'd argue that even just being a mutant shouldn't allow one
> to defy gravity or physics, unless that is provided for by one's
> power, not just the fact that one is Heroic.

<snip>

I think that's an SoD issue one is always going to run into when dealing
with movies set in comic book milieux - the simple fact of the matter is
that in comic book worlds, physics *do* bend if you're sufficiently stylish.
It's not uncommon, for example, for ostensibly human characters to perform
minor feats of superhuman strength and endurance simply by virtue of being
Just That Badass (tm).

- David Prokopetz.
Anonymous
May 29, 2004 9:25:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Hong Ooi wrote:

> On Sun, 23 May 2004 01:41:41 -0700, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
>>Hong Ooi wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Well, that could be fun too.
>>
>>>But really, after the love that Hero is getting from the Exalted fans here
>>>and on RPGnet, how is this not relevant to agww?
>>
>>Oh, it's completely relevant.
>>
>>I'm just wondering how it's relevant to D&D. Everyone knows you can't
>>use D&D to simulate that sort of thing.
>
>
> This demonstrates a *CLEAR* and *ABSOLUTE* lack of *UNDERSTANDING* about
> the underlying paradigm of D&D. HAVE YOU EVEN READ THE RULEBOOKS, *MORON*?
> And are you even *AWARE* of the current *ASTERISK* SHORTAGE?
>
> Hong "... or were you being serious?" Ooi

Pfah. D&D is a munchkin wankfest. "Oooh, looky, I has me a sword plus
TEN!!"

Besides, my second-generation True Brujah Antitribu / Black Spiral
Dancer Ronin Abomination could SO kick their asses.
--
[The address listed is a spam trap. To reply, take off every zig.]

"I wasn't aware the Tokyo police employed uneducated, paranoid,
delusional foreign delinquents."
"In my case, they made an exception."
-- MegaTokyo
!