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Explain please... Why MS make it so difficult?

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a b $ Windows 7
February 19, 2012 9:54:43 PM

Something that has confused me for a while... so can someone explain it to me please.

Any windows install... the important thing is the Windows Key.... so why does MS make resinstalls such a PITA process?

I had to reinstall win XP recently - my disk was original.. so prior to any SP
So I installed... with the intention of letting Microsoft update get it up to SP3 etc... would it work?... would it F*&k :fou: 
MSupdate does not support original :fou:  :fou: 

I had to root around and find a SP disk to get it to SP2... before MSupdate would work.. thats OUTRAGEOUS!!! XP.. fully supported product...WHY?

Anyway... a right royal PITA..... What I SHOULD be able to do is go to MS and get the XP SP3 install ISO... after all... the important bit is the key... so why
restrict the ISO?

Why cant I download a Win7 Ult SP1 ISO for when/if I need reinstall my current machine? I have a ligitimate key... so why the hasstle?

Can anyone explain it please?

Thanks in advance.

More about : explain make difficult

a b $ Windows 7
February 19, 2012 10:10:58 PM

Hi :) 

To start with XP ...CAN be updated all the way through all 3 service packs without problem.... we do it all the time at my shops...

As far as Ultimate download is concerned....IF you have a legitimate key you should also have the hologrammed disc....no ?

All the best Brett :) 
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February 19, 2012 10:11:07 PM

Had you updated your MSFT software more regularly it would have informed you of SP2 and SP3. You could have d/l'ed it and solved the problems right there! That's why they put a software update scheduler in their Control Panel.
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a b $ Windows 7
February 19, 2012 10:25:32 PM

Brett928S2 said:
Hi :) 

To start with XP ...CAN be updated all the way through all 3 service packs without problem.... we do it all the time at my shops...

As far as Ultimate download is concerned....IF you have a legitimate key you should also have the hologrammed disc....no ?

All the best Brett :) 


Please be clear.. Im not saying it cant be... I am saying that Microsoft updater service will not do it. My guess is that you have the SP avail and can ofc just run them through. Thats not my point.

I just dont see why MS dont make a nice and convenient (for you as well... how PITA is it for you to go through that every time?) so I can burn a Sp3 version?

Cheers
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a b $ Windows 7
February 19, 2012 10:33:25 PM

DelroyMonjo said:
Had you updated your MSFT software more regularly it would have informed you of SP2 and SP3. You could have d/l'ed it and solved the problems right there! That's why they put a software update scheduler in their Control Panel.


Can you run this by me again please... nice and slow ;)  .... "updated your MSFT software more regularly "... what are you saying? I think you missunderstood... we talking dead HD... put in new... got my DVD... hell - its a PITA process to have to use it and then all updates.

Why cant I just go to MS site... download the "current" ISO (i.e. latest version.. which they do anyway for packaged software) and save myself the hasstle of patching at all?

If the key is the key... why make my life (as a customer) more difficult that it need be.

Cheers
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February 19, 2012 10:42:39 PM

MS doesn't support the same "windows update" as you see on vista and win7, i just installed my old Win XP Prof 32bit on an old rig to get it working again, you need to go online via web browser and update it (via MS) that way, was able to patch from no SP to all the way to SP3. took awhile but it gets done.
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February 19, 2012 10:47:32 PM

Should have made a restore disc as well.
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a b $ Windows 7
February 19, 2012 10:48:52 PM

yoji said:
Please be clear.. Im not saying it cant be... I am saying that Microsoft updater service will not do it. My guess is that you have the SP avail and can ofc just run them through. Thats not my point.

I just dont see why MS dont make a nice and convenient (for you as well... how PITA is it for you to go through that every time?) so I can burn a Sp3 version?

Cheers

There are 2 solutions to that:
1. download the SP installers (a few hundreds megs) and save them for offline installation.
2. create a slipstreamed disk of XP that includes the SP. For this you will need the original XP disk and the SP downloaded. You can do some quick Google research about how to slip-stream Windows XP service packs.
Good luck!
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a b $ Windows 7
February 19, 2012 11:10:36 PM

1) make a restore disc next time, or a backup image of some sort. It saves no end of troubble

2) when going to MS update just install the new updater (which will pop up anyways) and then everythign will work... it just takes a long time for those ~1000+ updates, and several resets

3) look into slipstreaming. It is not horribly complicated and will allow you to do a fresh windows install that includes all of the updates. Very handy for old dated patchwork software like XP.

4) MS has done a phenomenal support job for XP. Let's see you design something that needs 10-40 patches a month and keep supporting it for 11 years!
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February 20, 2012 12:52:59 AM

yoji said:
Something that has confused me for a while... so can someone explain it to me please.

Any windows install... the important thing is the Windows Key.... so why does MS make resinstalls such a PITA process?

I had to reinstall win XP recently - my disk was original.. so prior to any SP
So I installed... with the intention of letting Microsoft update get it up to SP3 etc... would it work?... would it F*&k :fou: 
MSupdate does not support original :fou:  :fou: 

I had to root around and find a SP disk to get it to SP2... before MSupdate would work.. thats OUTRAGEOUS!!! XP.. fully supported product...WHY?

Anyway... a right royal PITA..... What I SHOULD be able to do is go to MS and get the XP SP3 install ISO... after all... the important bit is the key... so why
restrict the ISO?

Why cant I download a Win7 Ult SP1 ISO for when/if I need reinstall my current machine? I have a ligitimate key... so why the hasstle?

Can anyone explain it please?

Thanks in advance.


WindowsXP is not a "fully supported product". Microsoft does not support WindowsXP Pre-SP2.

You have a legitimate product key for WindowsXP. Why would you need to download the Windows7 Ultimate ISO to install WindowsXP? They're 2 completely different Windows versions.
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February 20, 2012 1:14:34 AM

CaedenV said:
...design something that needs 10-40 patches a month...


I would be looking for another line of work! :lol: 

Sort of reminds me of an old local muffler shop commercial when it was taking a dig at the competition. They had two greasy guys standing there with a customer saying "we have fixed this man's transmission 40 times in the last 6 months". :lol: 
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a b $ Windows 7
February 20, 2012 2:31:16 AM

Well buy yourself a technet subscription and you will have access to all the .iso's for all of their software, and a crap load of keys for a lonely $199. Or use the web to find a correct .iso and use your key.

The only pita for xp non service pack is before SP2 it requires you to input your key at the beginning of the install, SP2 and later allow you to add key anytime up to 30 days after installing XP. I just installed XP with no SP and it updated all the way to SP3 with no issue at all. from start/ windows update.
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a b $ Windows 7
February 20, 2012 8:45:53 AM

Thanks all

I cant help but feel that most of you have missed the point... you have dived in with technical solutions.... when really my question was from a customer service perspective. As a customer.. should MS not try and make it as easy for me as poss to enjoy their product?

I dont need technical help... I can sort it...but when most of my software allows me to download the latest version and uses the key to make sure it legitimate... MS does not (unless you have a technet subscription - which should not be necessary).

I must admit... for me - the technet subscription does look attractive. But it will not suit many... so not sure that a OK cop out from MS.

@daship... really dont know how you managed it... it certainly did not work for me... did it a while ago now - but it would not update the windows update components when I tried. I had to update to SP2 from CD and then win update worked ok from there on.

Anyway - thanks all for your input. I still remain to be convinced that the process is as customer friendly as it need be.

Cheers



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a b $ Windows 7
February 20, 2012 9:13:17 AM

because at the time of XP - when it was frozen on your disk - they updated in a certain way, they then changed the update process to make it easier overall, i.e. not having to use a browser but having it built it.

since you tried to reinstall, you have to use the old way of doing it, i.e. browser based, as xp doesn't become aware of the new version until after some of the updates are installed.

so as they changed it is impossible for your old disk to follow new methods.

Ultimately from MS's shareholders point of view do they get more customers by making it more user friendly from an install point of view. No, i'd suggest that those that install for themselves just get on with it (barring issues arising from changes in process), and the vast majority that buy off the shelf boxes don't care, and the manufacturers just use images. if a dell (or whomever) consumer wants to reinstall, they talk to dell about why they don't have proper disks.
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February 20, 2012 8:38:07 PM

yoji said:
Thanks all

I cant help but feel that most of you have missed the point... you have dived in with technical solutions.... when really my question was from a customer service perspective. As a customer.. should MS not try and make it as easy for me as poss to enjoy their product?

I dont need technical help... I can sort it...but when most of my software allows me to download the latest version and uses the key to make sure it legitimate... MS does not (unless you have a technet subscription - which should not be necessary).

I must admit... for me - the technet subscription does look attractive. But it will not suit many... so not sure that a OK cop out from MS.

@daship... really dont know how you managed it... it certainly did not work for me... did it a while ago now - but it would not update the windows update components when I tried. I had to update to SP2 from CD and then win update worked ok from there on.

Anyway - thanks all for your input. I still remain to be convinced that the process is as customer friendly as it need be.

Cheers


Most companies don't provide you the latest version of their software free of charge. If they did, they'd go bankrupt. There is absolutely no reason to believe that MS should give you Windows7, which literally cost them several million dollars to develop, completely free because you bought WindowsXP.

Technet subscriptions are not intended for everyone. They're intended for developers and IT Professionals, as are MSDN accounts.
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a b $ Windows 7
February 20, 2012 10:19:19 PM

sykozis said:
Most companies don't provide you the latest version of their software free of charge. If they did, they'd go bankrupt. There is absolutely no reason to believe that MS should give you Windows7, which literally cost them several million dollars to develop, completely free because you bought WindowsXP.

Technet subscriptions are not intended for everyone. They're intended for developers and IT Professionals, as are MSDN accounts.


The XP and win7 were seperate examples. I was suggesting if I had xp I could download the xp sp3 image
And if I own win7 I could download the win7 sp1 image.

My example was Kaspersky.. I own. So can download latest version, pre patched with latest fixes. Why not windows?
The key is the protection.. So why not

Anyway. Think this been done to death now. We going over old ground. So unless new insights.. Let's kill it

Cheers
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February 21, 2012 1:51:33 AM

You could download the "updated" ISO's....back when WindowsXP was still under it's "consumer support" timeframe, which it no longer is.

There's also an application called nLite that will allow you to slipstream SP1, SP2 and SP3 into your WindowsXP installation disc.
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a b $ Windows 7
February 21, 2012 7:15:14 AM

sykozis said:
You could download the "updated" ISO's....back when WindowsXP was still under it's "consumer support" timeframe, which it no longer is.

There's also an application called nLite that will allow you to slipstream SP1, SP2 and SP3 into your WindowsXP installation disc.


Think we been through that... updated ISO's not avail to consumers... only via technet subscriptions....
and you jumped into tech solution rather than look at it from customer service perspective - you trying solve symptom, not th eproblem.

Cheers
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a b $ Windows 7
February 21, 2012 7:27:46 AM

the thing is with the technet subscription they know you have paid for it. with the updated iso's it becomes a lot more difficult to control who should have them, yes the key should work, but is probably cracked somewhere, at which point they are dishing out holographed disks/ISO's to anyone with a cracked key. To save a few brownie points with a minority of consumers. Disk for disk exchange would have to be the way forward, but that creates all sorts of nightmares.
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February 21, 2012 10:52:04 PM

yoji said:
Think we been through that... updated ISO's not avail to consumers... only via technet subscriptions....
and you jumped into tech solution rather than look at it from customer service perspective - you trying solve symptom, not th eproblem.

Cheers


The ISOs were available to consumers while WindowsXP was under it's consumer support period. WindowsXP is no longer under it's "consumer support" period, so MS removed the ISOs. The "updated" ISOs are available to TechNet and MSDN subscribers because those are IT Pro and Developer subscription services and WindowsXP is still under it's "extended support" period....which provides support to Corporate/Commercial users.

Consumer support for WindowsXP ended several years ago.

I don't see what is so hard to understand about the simple fact that MS no longer supports WindowsXP for consumers....

WindowsXP was given an "extended support" period due to commercial/corporate customers not wanting to upgrade...but, they are the only ones that support is being granted to.
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a b $ Windows 7
February 23, 2012 10:05:26 AM

sykozis said:
The ISOs were available to consumers while WindowsXP was under it's consumer support period. WindowsXP is no longer under it's "consumer support" period, so MS removed the ISOs. The "updated" ISOs are available to TechNet and MSDN subscribers because those are IT Pro and Developer subscription services and WindowsXP is still under it's "extended support" period....which provides support to Corporate/Commercial users.

Consumer support for WindowsXP ended several years ago.

I don't see what is so hard to understand about the simple fact that MS no longer supports WindowsXP for consumers....

WindowsXP was given an "extended support" period due to commercial/corporate customers not wanting to upgrade...but, they are the only ones that support is being granted to.


OK - I can legitimately install XP SP3 still... so the ISOs should remain available while I can do that. And they are not. So thats my point. Weather MS are producing functional updates or whatever is irrelevent to this discussion.

But lets move on ... please send me a link to the consumer area where I can download Win7 ultimate SP1. I have never managed to find such a link.

Thanks in advance.
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February 24, 2012 11:53:41 PM

yoji said:
OK - I can legitimately install XP SP3 still... so the ISOs should remain available while I can do that. And they are not. So thats my point. Weather MS are producing functional updates or whatever is irrelevent to this discussion.

I can still legitimately install Windows3.0....does that mean that Microsoft should continue to support it as well?

Fact is, Microsoft offers ZERO consumer support for WindowsXP. Support, in whole, was dropped a few years ago. Just because some people (like you) want to hold onto a 10 year old OS, doesn't mean MS should continue to support it.

The ISO's are posted on Microsoft's website. If you can't find them, then either you're too lazy to search for them or the simple steps needed are too complicated for you.
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a b $ Windows 7
February 25, 2012 8:10:46 AM

sykozis said:
I can still legitimately install Windows3.0....does that mean that Microsoft should continue to support it as well?

Fact is, Microsoft offers ZERO consumer support for WindowsXP. Support, in whole, was dropped a few years ago. Just because some people (like you) want to hold onto a 10 year old OS, doesn't mean MS should continue to support it..


You just being an idiot now. The nature of computers are that they will break. So it is completly legitimate that a user will need reinstall the OS, including XP. So its not at all unreasonable to expect that MS support them with ned to reinstall while the OS is at least until end 2014 when it goes end of life. And from a Customer service perspective... that should include making the OS with "current" fix pack ISO avail.


sykozis said:

The ISO's are posted on Microsoft's website. If you can't find them, then either you're too lazy to search for them or the simple steps needed are too complicated for you


Ill take that as a recognition that you are wrong... I have looked... damn hard... and not found it (so lets leave asside, how good is that MS puts it somewhere so difficult to find ... until we actually see a link). And I really dont believe you. Through the whole length of this thread - no-one has posted such a link. So this is an open chellenge to you to post a link to a Win7 SP1 ISO (to a "consumer" area mind you... link that needs technet account does not count) and shut me up/make me look stupid.

Cheers
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February 26, 2012 2:01:14 PM

yoji said:
You just being an idiot now. The nature of computers are that they will break. So it is completly legitimate that a user will need reinstall the OS, including XP. So its not at all unreasonable to expect that MS support them with ned to reinstall while the OS is at least until end 2014 when it goes end of life. And from a Customer service perspective... that should include making the OS with "current" fix pack ISO avail.


Breaking is the nature of computers? WoW....my computer never "breaks".... Seems that's only the "nature of computers" when used by clueless people.
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a b $ Windows 7
February 26, 2012 2:14:27 PM

sykozis said:
Breaking is the nature of computers? WoW....my computer never "breaks".... Seems that's only the "nature of computers" when used by clueless people.


Best you could come up with??? :pfff:  and no link...... I rest my case :whistle: 
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February 27, 2012 2:27:38 AM

It's not my job to provide people with links to operating systems they don't own. I don't support piracy to any extent, which is what it appears you're asking for. As I've stated more than once, legitimate download links are available and are easy to find. If you're not competent enough to find them, it's not my problem. In the interest of supporting legitimate software usage, this is the only link I'll provide: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/default.a...
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a b $ Windows 7
February 27, 2012 6:00:04 AM

sykozis said:
It's not my job to provide people with links to operating systems they don't own. I don't support piracy to any extent, which is what it appears you're asking for. As I've stated more than once, legitimate download links are available and are easy to find. If you're not competent enough to find them, it's not my problem. In the interest of supporting legitimate software usage, this is the only link I'll provide: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/default.a...


Where did the OP indicate this is was pirated?
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a b $ Windows 7
February 27, 2012 8:16:10 AM

sykozis said:
It's not my job to provide people with links to operating systems they don't own. I don't support piracy to any extent, which is what it appears you're asking for. As I've stated more than once, legitimate download links are available and are easy to find. If you're not competent enough to find them, it's not my problem. In the interest of supporting legitimate software usage, this is the only link I'll provide: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/default.a...


OMG :o 

a technet link... exactly what we been through and said was not appropriate to this discussion!!!!

A saying come to mind.... "better let the world think you a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt"!!!

@13thmonkey... thanks... ofc, I confirm my windows copies are completely legitimate :) 

@honeyclarck.... please read the thread before you say "what difficult"... its all there ;) 

Cheers
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a b $ Windows 7
February 27, 2012 8:30:37 AM

Yoji, I saw sykozis's comment and face palmed, a) let sleeping dogs lie, b) there was never any indication about piracy.

Now the mere fact that they are hosting the ISO's and that there are key crackers out there probably would increase piracy, but you are not a pirate as far as we know.
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a b $ Windows 7
March 8, 2012 9:50:30 AM

Best answer selected by yoji.
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a c 395 $ Windows 7
March 8, 2012 9:53:25 AM

This topic has been closed by Area51reopened
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