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>
>http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknessSheet.pdf
>

I'll bet a dollar that appearance is now a merit.

Phil
 
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Phillip Ames wrote:

> I'll bet a dollar that appearance is now a merit.

Yeah.

I'd suggest "Or a Presence specialty," but Attributes don't look like
they have specialties. Which makes sense, since they don't have 'em in
Aeon or Exalted, either.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
 
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On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:12:44 -0700, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca>
wrote:

>http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknessSheet.pdf
>
>Neato.

Ooh, that's a saucy minx of a pdf.

I like the woozy fonts they've got in there. It gives off a slightly
hallucinatory, twisted-perceptions vibe that is very appealing to me.

As others have said, interesting that there's no appearance stat.
Given that I understand that there'll be a Nosferatu analogue, I
wonder how their drawback will be simulated? Unless the physical
beauty of a character will be a Background or a Merit/Flaw.

Virtue and Vice, eh? Interesting.

Cheers,

Charlie
 
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Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> writes:

> http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknessSheet.pdf
>
> Neato.

I'm not a native speaker, but I haven't seen what will replace the
Perception+Alertness dice pool (which is probably the one I use the
most...). More generally, I haven't seem much things related to
perception (well, there is Investigation and Empathy, but still...)

--
Rémi Vanicat
 
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Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:2i8tf1Fkkjk5U1@uni-berlin.de...
> http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknessSheet.pdf
>
> Neato.
--------
I hope they don't use those particular fonts. It makes it look as if it was
produced on a cheap electric typewriter 20 years ago. Or maybe that's the
idea...

--
You are Not entering Chapeltown.
We walk on two legs, the one abstract
the other surreal.
All important political action should be
aimed at persuading people of the
necessity of further sacrifices.
- Ardian Vehbiu, "Handbook for
Aspiring Stalinists"
--
 
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On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 22:09:42 +0100, "Certic"
<PJS@winDEATHTOSPAMMERSwaed.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>
>Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>news:2i8tf1Fkkjk5U1@uni-berlin.de...
>> http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknessSheet.pdf
>>
>> Neato.
>--------
>I hope they don't use those particular fonts. It makes it look as if it was
>produced on a cheap electric typewriter 20 years ago. Or maybe that's the
>idea...

People do seem to be protective of their fonts, don't they?

I like them - they're a neat touch. Sort of spooky.

C
 
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Stephenls wrote:

> http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknessSheet.pdf
>
> Neato.


Looks nice. I especially like the new arrangement of the stats (what can
I say, good organization appeals to me). However, it does bring up
something interesting. There is no longer any perception stat or any
form of the awareness and alertness skills. Which makes me wonder how
Storytelling will handle "did I notice that?".

The only thing that comes to mind is using Wits + skill, with skill
being whatever you'd use to do what you are trying to notice. I hope
that is what they use, because it allows different people to be
mechanically better at noticing different things - the street brawler
character is more likely to notice that the guy down the street walks
like he's got a knife in his pocket, while the clubber is more likely to
notice if someone is luring drunken dancers out the back door.

William
 
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William wrote:

> Looks nice. I especially like the new arrangement of the stats (what can
> I say, good organization appeals to me). However, it does bring up
> something interesting. There is no longer any perception stat or any
> form of the awareness and alertness skills. Which makes me wonder how
> Storytelling will handle "did I notice that?".

Investigation, dude. Or, in a few limited cases, Empathy.

> The only thing that comes to mind is using Wits + skill, with skill
> being whatever you'd use to do what you are trying to notice. I hope
> that is what they use, because it allows different people to be
> mechanically better at noticing different things - the street brawler
> character is more likely to notice that the guy down the street walks
> like he's got a knife in his pocket, while the clubber is more likely to
> notice if someone is luring drunken dancers out the back door.

That's also a possibility.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
 
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In article <2i8tf1Fkkjk5U1@uni-berlin.de>, Stephenls
<stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:

> http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknessSheet.pdf
>
> Neato.

Looks neat, though I am going to need to get used to the new layout
with my eyes having been trained in the old style. :)

Looks slightly drafty to me, though I am sure the final printed version
will look fine.

I must say that all the recent WoD 2.0 updates have made me excited for
the upcoming games. Really can't wait to see what is being done with
Werewolf the Forsaken.

--
Doug Kern
AKA Monocle
douglasskern@earthlink.net
 
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Remi Vanicat wrote:
>
> Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> writes:
>
> > http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknessSheet.pdf
> >
> > Neato.
>
> I'm not a native speaker, but I haven't seen what will replace the
> Perception+Alertness dice pool (which is probably the one I use the
> most...). More generally, I haven't seem much things related to
> perception (well, there is Investigation and Empathy, but still...)

It might just be straight Wits (for noticing things.) For initiative it
would be the init mod.
 
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Charlie B wrote:
>
> On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:12:44 -0700, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknessSheet.pdf
> >
> >Neato.
>
> Ooh, that's a saucy minx of a pdf.
>
> I like the woozy fonts they've got in there. It gives off a slightly
> hallucinatory, twisted-perceptions vibe that is very appealing to me.
>
> As others have said, interesting that there's no appearance stat.
> Given that I understand that there'll be a Nosferatu analogue, I
> wonder how their drawback will be simulated? Unless the physical
> beauty of a character will be a Background or a Merit/Flaw.

Maybe the Nosferatu won't be hideously ugly in this version. If they
are, perhaps their ugliness will be reflected by a general penalty to
Social dice pools or something.

> Virtue and Vice, eh? Interesting.

Indeed.
 
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Doug Kern wrote:
>
> In article <2i8tf1Fkkjk5U1@uni-berlin.de>, Stephenls
> <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> > http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknessSheet.pdf
> >
> > Neato.
>
> Looks neat, though I am going to need to get used to the new layout
> with my eyes having been trained in the old style. :)

I know what you mean :)

> I must say that all the recent WoD 2.0 updates have made me excited for
> the upcoming games. Really can't wait to see what is being done with
> Werewolf the Forsaken.

Yeah me too. The old Werewolf never caught my imagination, I find
myself inordinately excited about the new one and the possibilities.
 
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William wrote:

> The only thing that comes to mind is using Wits + skill, with skill
> being whatever you'd use to do what you are trying to notice. I hope
> that is what they use, because it allows different people to be
> mechanically better at noticing different things - the street brawler
> character is more likely to notice that the guy down the street walks
> like he's got a knife in his pocket, while the clubber is more likely to
> notice if someone is luring drunken dancers out the back door.

I really like that idea. If White Wolf doesn't pick up that mechanic,
I just might as a house rule.
 
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Stephenls wrote:

> I'd suggest "Or a Presence specialty," but Attributes don't look like
> they have specialties. Which makes sense, since they don't have 'em in
> Aeon or Exalted, either.

Don't have Exalted handy to verify, but the Trinity Universe does indeed
have sorta-specialties for Attributes. They're called Qualities.

(For the uninitiated, Specialties are for Abilities and give you an
extra die to roll. Qualities are for Attributes and let you re-roll 10s.)

--
_______________
Ian A. A. Watson
ianwatson@wolf-spoor.org
http://www.wolf-spoor.org
 
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In the borning days of the third millennium, Stephen Williams wrote:
>> As others have said, interesting that there's no appearance stat.
>> Given that I understand that there'll be a Nosferatu analogue, I
>> wonder how their drawback will be simulated? Unless the physical
>> beauty of a character will be a Background or a Merit/Flaw.
>
>Maybe the Nosferatu won't be hideously ugly in this version. If they
>are, perhaps their ugliness will be reflected by a general penalty to
>Social dice pools or something.

Well, there appears to be a Nosferatu on the cover of the New Orleans book
(http://www.worldofdarkness.com/dailies/NewOrleansCoverArt.jpg), and it has
the traditional Nosferatu features.

--
Brian Merchant (remove 'remove' and 'example' from email)

Puritanism didn't keep the puritans from sinning, it just kept
them from enjoying it.
--Father Joe Breighner
Country Roads
 
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In the borning days of the third millennium, Brian Merchant wrote:
>Well, there appears to be a Nosferatu on the cover of the New Orleans book
>(http://www.worldofdarkness.com/dailies/NewOrleansCoverArt.jpg), and it has
>the traditional Nosferatu features.

P.S. Yes, I realize the circular nature of my reasoning there, but guesswork
is all we have to go on right now.

--
Brian Merchant (remove 'remove' and 'example' from email)

Puritanism didn't keep the puritans from sinning, it just kept
them from enjoying it.
--Father Joe Breighner
Country Roads
 
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Brian Merchant postulated:

> >Well, there appears to be a Nosferatu on the cover of the New Orleans
book
> >(http://www.worldofdarkness.com/dailies/NewOrleansCoverArt.jpg), and it
has
> >the traditional Nosferatu features.
>
> P.S. Yes, I realize the circular nature of my reasoning there, but
guesswork
> is all we have to go on right now.

Well, in all fairness, if you're going to include Nosferatu it would be
quite inane to *not* have them ugly as sin and looking the way they do since
they take their name from, well, the film Nosferatu who kind of set the mold
for how they look.

Of course, they could do something really whacky like make the Nosferatu so
amazingly stunning that their unnatural beauty is interpretted as ugliness
in the mind's eye because it cannot process what it's seeing. But that would
be kinda strange.

Nimrod...
--
"...man's spiritual nature was derived from a Divine being, who had fallen
out of the world of light into the world of darkness. The process of
deliverance involved, in the first place, the resoration of this fallen
being ... by the voluntary decent of another Divine being, equal or superior
in rank."
- Hastings, _Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics_ VI, article
'Gnosticism'
 
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Nimrod Jones wrote:

> Well, in all fairness, if you're going to include Nosferatu it would be
> quite inane to *not* have them ugly as sin and looking the way they do since
> they take their name from, well, the film Nosferatu who kind of set the mold
> for how they look.

> Of course, they could do something really whacky like make the Nosferatu so
> amazingly stunning that their unnatural beauty is interpretted as ugliness
> in the mind's eye because it cannot process what it's seeing. But that would
> be kinda strange.

I'm hoping there's a single "Looks inhuman" clan, with the ability to
fill in for the Nosferatu, the Gangrel (well, their weakness), the more
inhuman Tzimisce, and any other nonhuman-lookin' vampires one can think
of. A single clan that can look like Count Orlock or Sasha Vycos
depending on the individual, in other words.

Maybe the clan as a whole looks like the Nos, but the bloodline
offshoots look different. Assuming bloodlines still spring from or
exist within clans, that is.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
 
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On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 01:28:43 GMT, Doug Kern
<douglasskern@earthlink.net> wrote:

>In article <2i8tf1Fkkjk5U1@uni-berlin.de>, Stephenls
><stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>> http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknessSheet.pdf
>>
>> Neato.
>
>Looks neat, though I am going to need to get used to the new layout
>with my eyes having been trained in the old style. :)
>
>Looks slightly drafty to me, though I am sure the final printed version
>will look fine.
>
>I must say that all the recent WoD 2.0 updates have made me excited for
>the upcoming games. Really can't wait to see what is being done with
>Werewolf the Forsaken.

I think Werewolf has a lot of potential. Personally, I loved the whole
'eco-warrior for Gaia' idea, but I can see why a new tack might also
be interesting. You can be pretty sure that if Ethan's developing the
line, it'll be excellent - both interesting and thought-provoking.

I'm not sure what's in the public domain so far, but the idea of
werewolves being under a supernatural curse would seem interesting and
thematic to me.

Cheers,

Charlie
 
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On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 08:49:07 -0400, Stephen Williams
<steve1.williams@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>Charlie B wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:12:44 -0700, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknessSheet.pdf
>> >
>> >Neato.
>>
>> Ooh, that's a saucy minx of a pdf.
>>
>> I like the woozy fonts they've got in there. It gives off a slightly
>> hallucinatory, twisted-perceptions vibe that is very appealing to me.
>>
>> As others have said, interesting that there's no appearance stat.
>> Given that I understand that there'll be a Nosferatu analogue, I
>> wonder how their drawback will be simulated? Unless the physical
>> beauty of a character will be a Background or a Merit/Flaw.
>
>Maybe the Nosferatu won't be hideously ugly in this version. If they
>are, perhaps their ugliness will be reflected by a general penalty to
>Social dice pools or something.

Possibly, although that does curtail the interesting character of the
'Honey-tongued, but Hideous Nosferatu'.
I'll be intrigued as to how it will play out.

>> Virtue and Vice, eh? Interesting.
>
>Indeed.

Wonder how that will work? Will it be like 'Nature' and 'Demeanour',
or will it impinge more on game mechanics, almost like Wraithly
Shadows? If Vampires constantly have to fight off their darker
impulses, aka Vices, that might add a very interesting new dimension
to play.

Interesting times afoot.

Cheers,

Charlie
 
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Charlie B wrote:

> Wonder how that will work? Will it be like 'Nature' and 'Demeanour',
> or will it impinge more on game mechanics, almost like Wraithly
> Shadows? If Vampires constantly have to fight off their darker
> impulses, aka Vices, that might add a very interesting new dimension
> to play.

I'm pretty sure we already know how Virtues and Vices work.

There are seven vices, corresponding to the seven deadly sins, and seven
virtues opposed to them. Each character chooses a virtue and a vice.

Whenever a character indulges his virtue or his vice in a manner opposed
to his current goals, he regains all his spent Willpower points.

And that's it.

I really like this system. It doesn't judge -- virtues are not "better"
than vices -- and you don't get situations where the Curmudgeon always
has three times the temporary willpower points as the Caregiver.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
 
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On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 14:18:06 -0700, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca>
wrote:

>Nimrod Jones wrote:
>
>> Well, in all fairness, if you're going to include Nosferatu it would be
>> quite inane to *not* have them ugly as sin and looking the way they do since
>> they take their name from, well, the film Nosferatu who kind of set the mold
>> for how they look.
>
>> Of course, they could do something really whacky like make the Nosferatu so
>> amazingly stunning that their unnatural beauty is interpretted as ugliness
>> in the mind's eye because it cannot process what it's seeing. But that would
>> be kinda strange.
>
>I'm hoping there's a single "Looks inhuman" clan, with the ability to
>fill in for the Nosferatu, the Gangrel (well, their weakness), the more
>inhuman Tzimisce, and any other nonhuman-lookin' vampires one can think
>of. A single clan that can look like Count Orlock or Sasha Vycos
>depending on the individual, in other words.

I'd rather that all Vampires had the potential to look inhuman in one
way or another.

A 'looks beastly' clan, that amalgamates the Gangrel and Nos sounds
like a good plan.

>Maybe the clan as a whole looks like the Nos, but the bloodline
>offshoots look different. Assuming bloodlines still spring from or
>exist within clans, that is.

This is what I'm hoping for the 'bloodlines'. Ideally, any
sufficiently ancient vampire can sire one, and their descendents would
be recognisably tainted as hers. All manner of good or not so good
things arise from the idea.

Cheers,

Charlie
 
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On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 14:35:22 -0700, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca>
wrote:

>Charlie B wrote:
>
>> Wonder how that will work? Will it be like 'Nature' and 'Demeanour',
>> or will it impinge more on game mechanics, almost like Wraithly
>> Shadows? If Vampires constantly have to fight off their darker
>> impulses, aka Vices, that might add a very interesting new dimension
>> to play.
>
>I'm pretty sure we already know how Virtues and Vices work.
>
>There are seven vices, corresponding to the seven deadly sins, and seven
>virtues opposed to them. Each character chooses a virtue and a vice.
>
>Whenever a character indulges his virtue or his vice in a manner opposed
>to his current goals, he regains all his spent Willpower points.
>
>And that's it.
>
>I really like this system. It doesn't judge -- virtues are not "better"
>than vices -- and you don't get situations where the Curmudgeon always
>has three times the temporary willpower points as the Caregiver.

Although it does mean that characters can choose Sloth, and then say
'Actually, I just sit on my arse for a bit whilst you all run around',
and regain all their Willpower.

Otherwise, excellent.

Cheers,

Charlie
 
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