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New WoD character sheet is up.

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Anonymous
June 3, 2004 12:12:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknes...

Neato.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike

More about : wod character sheet

Anonymous
June 3, 2004 8:52:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Phillip Ames wrote:

> I'll bet a dollar that appearance is now a merit.

Yeah.

I'd suggest "Or a Presence specialty," but Attributes don't look like
they have specialties. Which makes sense, since they don't have 'em in
Aeon or Exalted, either.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
Related resources
Anonymous
June 3, 2004 11:14:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:12:44 -0700, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca>
wrote:

>http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknes...
>
>Neato.

Ooh, that's a saucy minx of a pdf.

I like the woozy fonts they've got in there. It gives off a slightly
hallucinatory, twisted-perceptions vibe that is very appealing to me.

As others have said, interesting that there's no appearance stat.
Given that I understand that there'll be a Nosferatu analogue, I
wonder how their drawback will be simulated? Unless the physical
beauty of a character will be a Background or a Merit/Flaw.

Virtue and Vice, eh? Interesting.

Cheers,

Charlie
Anonymous
June 4, 2004 12:04:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> writes:

> http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknes...
>
> Neato.

I'm not a native speaker, but I haven't seen what will replace the
Perception+Alertness dice pool (which is probably the one I use the
most...). More generally, I haven't seem much things related to
perception (well, there is Investigation and Empathy, but still...)

--
RĂ©mi Vanicat
Anonymous
June 4, 2004 2:09:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:2i8tf1Fkkjk5U1@uni-berlin.de...
> http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknes...
>
> Neato.
--------
I hope they don't use those particular fonts. It makes it look as if it was
produced on a cheap electric typewriter 20 years ago. Or maybe that's the
idea...

--
You are Not entering Chapeltown.
We walk on two legs, the one abstract
the other surreal.
All important political action should be
aimed at persuading people of the
necessity of further sacrifices.
- Ardian Vehbiu, "Handbook for
Aspiring Stalinists"
--
Anonymous
June 4, 2004 2:31:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 22:09:42 +0100, "Certic"
<PJS@winDEATHTOSPAMMERSwaed.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>
>Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>news:2i8tf1Fkkjk5U1@uni-berlin.de...
>> http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknes...
>>
>> Neato.
>--------
>I hope they don't use those particular fonts. It makes it look as if it was
>produced on a cheap electric typewriter 20 years ago. Or maybe that's the
>idea...

People do seem to be protective of their fonts, don't they?

I like them - they're a neat touch. Sort of spooky.

C
June 4, 2004 2:36:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Stephenls wrote:

> http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknes...
>
> Neato.


Looks nice. I especially like the new arrangement of the stats (what can
I say, good organization appeals to me). However, it does bring up
something interesting. There is no longer any perception stat or any
form of the awareness and alertness skills. Which makes me wonder how
Storytelling will handle "did I notice that?".

The only thing that comes to mind is using Wits + skill, with skill
being whatever you'd use to do what you are trying to notice. I hope
that is what they use, because it allows different people to be
mechanically better at noticing different things - the street brawler
character is more likely to notice that the guy down the street walks
like he's got a knife in his pocket, while the clubber is more likely to
notice if someone is luring drunken dancers out the back door.

William
Anonymous
June 4, 2004 2:36:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

William wrote:

> Looks nice. I especially like the new arrangement of the stats (what can
> I say, good organization appeals to me). However, it does bring up
> something interesting. There is no longer any perception stat or any
> form of the awareness and alertness skills. Which makes me wonder how
> Storytelling will handle "did I notice that?".

Investigation, dude. Or, in a few limited cases, Empathy.

> The only thing that comes to mind is using Wits + skill, with skill
> being whatever you'd use to do what you are trying to notice. I hope
> that is what they use, because it allows different people to be
> mechanically better at noticing different things - the street brawler
> character is more likely to notice that the guy down the street walks
> like he's got a knife in his pocket, while the clubber is more likely to
> notice if someone is luring drunken dancers out the back door.

That's also a possibility.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
Anonymous
June 4, 2004 5:28:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

In article <2i8tf1Fkkjk5U1@uni-berlin.de>, Stephenls
<stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:

> http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknes...
>
> Neato.

Looks neat, though I am going to need to get used to the new layout
with my eyes having been trained in the old style. :) 

Looks slightly drafty to me, though I am sure the final printed version
will look fine.

I must say that all the recent WoD 2.0 updates have made me excited for
the upcoming games. Really can't wait to see what is being done with
Werewolf the Forsaken.

--
Doug Kern
AKA Monocle
douglasskern@earthlink.net
Anonymous
June 4, 2004 12:45:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Remi Vanicat wrote:
>
> Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> writes:
>
> > http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknes...
> >
> > Neato.
>
> I'm not a native speaker, but I haven't seen what will replace the
> Perception+Alertness dice pool (which is probably the one I use the
> most...). More generally, I haven't seem much things related to
> perception (well, there is Investigation and Empathy, but still...)

It might just be straight Wits (for noticing things.) For initiative it
would be the init mod.
Anonymous
June 4, 2004 12:49:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Charlie B wrote:
>
> On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:12:44 -0700, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknes...
> >
> >Neato.
>
> Ooh, that's a saucy minx of a pdf.
>
> I like the woozy fonts they've got in there. It gives off a slightly
> hallucinatory, twisted-perceptions vibe that is very appealing to me.
>
> As others have said, interesting that there's no appearance stat.
> Given that I understand that there'll be a Nosferatu analogue, I
> wonder how their drawback will be simulated? Unless the physical
> beauty of a character will be a Background or a Merit/Flaw.

Maybe the Nosferatu won't be hideously ugly in this version. If they
are, perhaps their ugliness will be reflected by a general penalty to
Social dice pools or something.

> Virtue and Vice, eh? Interesting.

Indeed.
Anonymous
June 4, 2004 12:50:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Doug Kern wrote:
>
> In article <2i8tf1Fkkjk5U1@uni-berlin.de>, Stephenls
> <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> > http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknes...
> >
> > Neato.
>
> Looks neat, though I am going to need to get used to the new layout
> with my eyes having been trained in the old style. :) 

I know what you mean :) 

> I must say that all the recent WoD 2.0 updates have made me excited for
> the upcoming games. Really can't wait to see what is being done with
> Werewolf the Forsaken.

Yeah me too. The old Werewolf never caught my imagination, I find
myself inordinately excited about the new one and the possibilities.
Anonymous
June 4, 2004 12:52:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

William wrote:

> The only thing that comes to mind is using Wits + skill, with skill
> being whatever you'd use to do what you are trying to notice. I hope
> that is what they use, because it allows different people to be
> mechanically better at noticing different things - the street brawler
> character is more likely to notice that the guy down the street walks
> like he's got a knife in his pocket, while the clubber is more likely to
> notice if someone is luring drunken dancers out the back door.

I really like that idea. If White Wolf doesn't pick up that mechanic,
I just might as a house rule.
Anonymous
June 4, 2004 1:21:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Stephenls wrote:

> I'd suggest "Or a Presence specialty," but Attributes don't look like
> they have specialties. Which makes sense, since they don't have 'em in
> Aeon or Exalted, either.

Don't have Exalted handy to verify, but the Trinity Universe does indeed
have sorta-specialties for Attributes. They're called Qualities.

(For the uninitiated, Specialties are for Abilities and give you an
extra die to roll. Qualities are for Attributes and let you re-roll 10s.)

--
_______________
Ian A. A. Watson
ianwatson@wolf-spoor.org
http://www.wolf-spoor.org
Anonymous
June 4, 2004 6:37:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

In the borning days of the third millennium, Stephen Williams wrote:
>> As others have said, interesting that there's no appearance stat.
>> Given that I understand that there'll be a Nosferatu analogue, I
>> wonder how their drawback will be simulated? Unless the physical
>> beauty of a character will be a Background or a Merit/Flaw.
>
>Maybe the Nosferatu won't be hideously ugly in this version. If they
>are, perhaps their ugliness will be reflected by a general penalty to
>Social dice pools or something.

Well, there appears to be a Nosferatu on the cover of the New Orleans book
(http://www.worldofdarkness.com/dailies/NewOrleansCoverA...), and it has
the traditional Nosferatu features.

--
Brian Merchant (remove 'remove' and 'example' from email)

Puritanism didn't keep the puritans from sinning, it just kept
them from enjoying it.
--Father Joe Breighner
Country Roads
Anonymous
June 4, 2004 6:39:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

In the borning days of the third millennium, Brian Merchant wrote:
>Well, there appears to be a Nosferatu on the cover of the New Orleans book
>(http://www.worldofdarkness.com/dailies/NewOrleansCoverA...), and it has
>the traditional Nosferatu features.

P.S. Yes, I realize the circular nature of my reasoning there, but guesswork
is all we have to go on right now.

--
Brian Merchant (remove 'remove' and 'example' from email)

Puritanism didn't keep the puritans from sinning, it just kept
them from enjoying it.
--Father Joe Breighner
Country Roads
Anonymous
June 5, 2004 2:10:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Brian Merchant postulated:

> >Well, there appears to be a Nosferatu on the cover of the New Orleans
book
> >(http://www.worldofdarkness.com/dailies/NewOrleansCoverA...), and it
has
> >the traditional Nosferatu features.
>
> P.S. Yes, I realize the circular nature of my reasoning there, but
guesswork
> is all we have to go on right now.

Well, in all fairness, if you're going to include Nosferatu it would be
quite inane to *not* have them ugly as sin and looking the way they do since
they take their name from, well, the film Nosferatu who kind of set the mold
for how they look.

Of course, they could do something really whacky like make the Nosferatu so
amazingly stunning that their unnatural beauty is interpretted as ugliness
in the mind's eye because it cannot process what it's seeing. But that would
be kinda strange.

Nimrod...
--
"...man's spiritual nature was derived from a Divine being, who had fallen
out of the world of light into the world of darkness. The process of
deliverance involved, in the first place, the resoration of this fallen
being ... by the voluntary decent of another Divine being, equal or superior
in rank."
- Hastings, _Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics_ VI, article
'Gnosticism'
Anonymous
June 5, 2004 2:10:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Nimrod Jones wrote:

> Well, in all fairness, if you're going to include Nosferatu it would be
> quite inane to *not* have them ugly as sin and looking the way they do since
> they take their name from, well, the film Nosferatu who kind of set the mold
> for how they look.

> Of course, they could do something really whacky like make the Nosferatu so
> amazingly stunning that their unnatural beauty is interpretted as ugliness
> in the mind's eye because it cannot process what it's seeing. But that would
> be kinda strange.

I'm hoping there's a single "Looks inhuman" clan, with the ability to
fill in for the Nosferatu, the Gangrel (well, their weakness), the more
inhuman Tzimisce, and any other nonhuman-lookin' vampires one can think
of. A single clan that can look like Count Orlock or Sasha Vycos
depending on the individual, in other words.

Maybe the clan as a whole looks like the Nos, but the bloodline
offshoots look different. Assuming bloodlines still spring from or
exist within clans, that is.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
Anonymous
June 5, 2004 2:16:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 01:28:43 GMT, Doug Kern
<douglasskern@earthlink.net> wrote:

>In article <2i8tf1Fkkjk5U1@uni-berlin.de>, Stephenls
><stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>> http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknes...
>>
>> Neato.
>
>Looks neat, though I am going to need to get used to the new layout
>with my eyes having been trained in the old style. :) 
>
>Looks slightly drafty to me, though I am sure the final printed version
>will look fine.
>
>I must say that all the recent WoD 2.0 updates have made me excited for
>the upcoming games. Really can't wait to see what is being done with
>Werewolf the Forsaken.

I think Werewolf has a lot of potential. Personally, I loved the whole
'eco-warrior for Gaia' idea, but I can see why a new tack might also
be interesting. You can be pretty sure that if Ethan's developing the
line, it'll be excellent - both interesting and thought-provoking.

I'm not sure what's in the public domain so far, but the idea of
werewolves being under a supernatural curse would seem interesting and
thematic to me.

Cheers,

Charlie
Anonymous
June 5, 2004 2:19:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 08:49:07 -0400, Stephen Williams
<steve1.williams@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>Charlie B wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 08:12:44 -0700, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknes...
>> >
>> >Neato.
>>
>> Ooh, that's a saucy minx of a pdf.
>>
>> I like the woozy fonts they've got in there. It gives off a slightly
>> hallucinatory, twisted-perceptions vibe that is very appealing to me.
>>
>> As others have said, interesting that there's no appearance stat.
>> Given that I understand that there'll be a Nosferatu analogue, I
>> wonder how their drawback will be simulated? Unless the physical
>> beauty of a character will be a Background or a Merit/Flaw.
>
>Maybe the Nosferatu won't be hideously ugly in this version. If they
>are, perhaps their ugliness will be reflected by a general penalty to
>Social dice pools or something.

Possibly, although that does curtail the interesting character of the
'Honey-tongued, but Hideous Nosferatu'.
I'll be intrigued as to how it will play out.

>> Virtue and Vice, eh? Interesting.
>
>Indeed.

Wonder how that will work? Will it be like 'Nature' and 'Demeanour',
or will it impinge more on game mechanics, almost like Wraithly
Shadows? If Vampires constantly have to fight off their darker
impulses, aka Vices, that might add a very interesting new dimension
to play.

Interesting times afoot.

Cheers,

Charlie
Anonymous
June 5, 2004 2:19:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Charlie B wrote:

> Wonder how that will work? Will it be like 'Nature' and 'Demeanour',
> or will it impinge more on game mechanics, almost like Wraithly
> Shadows? If Vampires constantly have to fight off their darker
> impulses, aka Vices, that might add a very interesting new dimension
> to play.

I'm pretty sure we already know how Virtues and Vices work.

There are seven vices, corresponding to the seven deadly sins, and seven
virtues opposed to them. Each character chooses a virtue and a vice.

Whenever a character indulges his virtue or his vice in a manner opposed
to his current goals, he regains all his spent Willpower points.

And that's it.

I really like this system. It doesn't judge -- virtues are not "better"
than vices -- and you don't get situations where the Curmudgeon always
has three times the temporary willpower points as the Caregiver.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
Anonymous
June 5, 2004 2:25:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 14:18:06 -0700, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca>
wrote:

>Nimrod Jones wrote:
>
>> Well, in all fairness, if you're going to include Nosferatu it would be
>> quite inane to *not* have them ugly as sin and looking the way they do since
>> they take their name from, well, the film Nosferatu who kind of set the mold
>> for how they look.
>
>> Of course, they could do something really whacky like make the Nosferatu so
>> amazingly stunning that their unnatural beauty is interpretted as ugliness
>> in the mind's eye because it cannot process what it's seeing. But that would
>> be kinda strange.
>
>I'm hoping there's a single "Looks inhuman" clan, with the ability to
>fill in for the Nosferatu, the Gangrel (well, their weakness), the more
>inhuman Tzimisce, and any other nonhuman-lookin' vampires one can think
>of. A single clan that can look like Count Orlock or Sasha Vycos
>depending on the individual, in other words.

I'd rather that all Vampires had the potential to look inhuman in one
way or another.

A 'looks beastly' clan, that amalgamates the Gangrel and Nos sounds
like a good plan.

>Maybe the clan as a whole looks like the Nos, but the bloodline
>offshoots look different. Assuming bloodlines still spring from or
>exist within clans, that is.

This is what I'm hoping for the 'bloodlines'. Ideally, any
sufficiently ancient vampire can sire one, and their descendents would
be recognisably tainted as hers. All manner of good or not so good
things arise from the idea.

Cheers,

Charlie
Anonymous
June 5, 2004 2:52:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 14:35:22 -0700, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca>
wrote:

>Charlie B wrote:
>
>> Wonder how that will work? Will it be like 'Nature' and 'Demeanour',
>> or will it impinge more on game mechanics, almost like Wraithly
>> Shadows? If Vampires constantly have to fight off their darker
>> impulses, aka Vices, that might add a very interesting new dimension
>> to play.
>
>I'm pretty sure we already know how Virtues and Vices work.
>
>There are seven vices, corresponding to the seven deadly sins, and seven
>virtues opposed to them. Each character chooses a virtue and a vice.
>
>Whenever a character indulges his virtue or his vice in a manner opposed
>to his current goals, he regains all his spent Willpower points.
>
>And that's it.
>
>I really like this system. It doesn't judge -- virtues are not "better"
>than vices -- and you don't get situations where the Curmudgeon always
>has three times the temporary willpower points as the Caregiver.

Although it does mean that characters can choose Sloth, and then say
'Actually, I just sit on my arse for a bit whilst you all run around',
and regain all their Willpower.

Otherwise, excellent.

Cheers,

Charlie
Anonymous
June 5, 2004 3:23:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Shane Graves wrote:

> Hm.

> Not fond.

'Splain.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
Anonymous
June 5, 2004 3:24:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

In article <2ic782Flf7pfU1@uni-berlin.de>, Stephenls
<stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:

> Nimrod Jones wrote:
>
> > Well, in all fairness, if you're going to include Nosferatu it would be
> > quite inane to *not* have them ugly as sin and looking the way they do since
> > they take their name from, well, the film Nosferatu who kind of set the mold
> > for how they look.
>
> > Of course, they could do something really whacky like make the Nosferatu so
> > amazingly stunning that their unnatural beauty is interpretted as ugliness
> > in the mind's eye because it cannot process what it's seeing. But that would
> > be kinda strange.
>
> I'm hoping there's a single "Looks inhuman" clan, with the ability to
> fill in for the Nosferatu, the Gangrel (well, their weakness), the more
> inhuman Tzimisce, and any other nonhuman-lookin' vampires one can think
> of. A single clan that can look like Count Orlock or Sasha Vycos
> depending on the individual, in other words.
>
> Maybe the clan as a whole looks like the Nos, but the bloodline
> offshoots look different. Assuming bloodlines still spring from or
> exist within clans, that is.

I was thinking the other day that in the new game, Nosferatu could also
refer to a certain type of vampires that become mosterous looking via
actions, or learning certain abilites. Sorta like how in KOtE a
Kuei-Jin who was Yin inbalanced would be all rotted corpse-like and
called a Ch'ing Shih, after the bone shintai power.

Wonder if we will get some bloodlines detailed as well, inaddition to
the five clans?

--
Doug Kern
AKA Monocle
douglasskern@earthlink.net
Anonymous
June 5, 2004 2:57:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

> > The only thing that comes to mind is using Wits + skill, with skill
> > being whatever you'd use to do what you are trying to notice. I hope
> > that is what they use, because it allows different people to be
> > mechanically better at noticing different things - the street brawler
> > character is more likely to notice that the guy down the street walks
> > like he's got a knife in his pocket, while the clubber is more likely to
> > notice if someone is luring drunken dancers out the back door.
>
> I really like that idea. If White Wolf doesn't pick up that mechanic,
> I just might as a house rule.

I agree...
While one can say "Charisma" could be replaced by "Presence", and
"Appearance" could be replaced by "Composure", nothing seems to
replace "Perception"...
Now, Appearance and Perception are at least partially "physical".
I mean, a simple "slash" in the middle of your face can alarmingly
decrease your appearance. In the same way, hot irons poked into
the eyes will painfully decrease your perception.

Having Merits like:

"Appearance: Beautiful" Add (1/per Merit point) to your dice polls
when your physical appearance should help you...

"Appearance: Ugly" Substract (1/per Flaw point) to your dice polls
when your physical appearance should help you...

Enable one to use any other "Social" Attribute to, for example, seduce
someone. I would use the "Power/Social" attribute, that is, Presence
(or for more subtle actions, the "Finesse/Social" Manipulation)
So, it would be "Presence + Socialize", with a bonus of "Beautiful"
or a malus of "Ugly").

The same could be used for Perception:

"Perception: Acute Vision" Add (1/per Merit point) to your dice polls
when your eyesight should help you...

"Perception: Defficient Vision" Substract (1/per Flaw point) to your dice
polls
when your eyesight should help you...

And then use whatever attribute the ST deem Ok.
For example Intelligence to discover a visual enigma, or Wits to simulate
Alertness (one can be good at discovering things when they have time,
and others at not being surprised...).


All in all, I'm quite liking this system...


Now, I'm sure others have thought about it: Recycling old characters
and background.

As someone put it in another post, if you like the Background, you
can still use it, all the while abandoning the old ST system and adopting
the new if you feel the rules are better.

(For combat-oriented chronicles, for example, the new system is without
contest quite faster...)

Have you thought about it?

What would you change in, for example, your Vampire Chronicle if you
did not want to end it now, but wanted to use the new system (I'm thinking
about my own DA:V Chronicle...)

Will be there some official rules to "fast-convert" characters from the old
ST system to the new?


-- Raoul Borges
to email me, remove the Xs from my email adress.
Anonymous
June 5, 2004 2:58:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On Sat, 5 Jun 2004 10:57:59 +0200, "Raoul Borges"
<paerxcebal@hoxtmxail.cxom> wrote:

>> > The only thing that comes to mind is using Wits + skill, with skill
>> > being whatever you'd use to do what you are trying to notice. I hope
>> > that is what they use, because it allows different people to be
>> > mechanically better at noticing different things - the street brawler
>> > character is more likely to notice that the guy down the street walks
>> > like he's got a knife in his pocket, while the clubber is more likely to
>> > notice if someone is luring drunken dancers out the back door.
>>
>> I really like that idea. If White Wolf doesn't pick up that mechanic,
>> I just might as a house rule.
>
>I agree...
>While one can say "Charisma" could be replaced by "Presence", and
>"Appearance" could be replaced by "Composure", nothing seems to
>replace "Perception"...
>Now, Appearance and Perception are at least partially "physical".
>I mean, a simple "slash" in the middle of your face can alarmingly
>decrease your appearance. In the same way, hot irons poked into
>the eyes will painfully decrease your perception.

(snip neat examples of Merits)

>All in all, I'm quite liking this system...

I like it a lot as well Raoul. I think it'll make characters who are a
bit more diverse. The current system does tend to make it easy to
streamline characters into stereotypes by whichever Clan they're in,
and anything that broadens the groupings will help to make more
interesting characters.

>
>Now, I'm sure others have thought about it: Recycling old characters
>and background.
>As someone put it in another post, if you like the Background, you
>can still use it, all the while abandoning the old ST system and adopting
>the new if you feel the rules are better.
>
>(For combat-oriented chronicles, for example, the new system is without
>contest quite faster...)
>
>Have you thought about it?

Hell yeah!

>What would you change in, for example, your Vampire Chronicle if you
>did not want to end it now, but wanted to use the new system (I'm thinking
>about my own DA:V Chronicle...)

I have a perfectly serviceable Mage campaign that I built up over
several years and i hope that it'll be relatively easy to convert to
the new system if necessary. Most of my protagonists are not
explicitly tied into specific groups, and I feel sure it would not be
a tough chore to move them into the new ones. This is because when I
very first set it up, I also toyed with the idea of running a Vampire
campaign, so the bare bones are created in such a way as to make every
Kindred without my having to utterly change theme and setting.

My biggest problem is that it was set in Manchester. That was all very
well when I was running the campaign in Coventry and London and the
players didn't know the city well. Now I have moved to Manchester,
players will know everything better than I do! I will have to shift it
all to Birmingham or something. Again, that ought not to be too
difficult.

Out of interest, Raoul, where's your DA chronicle set?

>Will be there some official rules to "fast-convert" characters from the old
>ST system to the new?

I'm sure that there will be some eventually.

Cheers,

Charlie
Anonymous
June 6, 2004 8:48:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Stephenls"
> Shane Graves wrote:

> > Hm.

> > Not fond.

> 'Splain.

Sorry about the delay. Usenet vanished from Earthlink for a while.

I'm not fond of the actual layout. It's very vertical. Nothing wrong with
that, but keep in mind, I'm a film guy. Even before that, when I was
dabbling in fine arts, I preferred everything horizontal.

I don't like the void of white at the top. Though I do like the WoD logo
watermarked into the side.

The instructions, I'm sure, will vanish in individual splats.

I don't like all the bottom right section. It just seems kinda...clumsy. I
liked the flow and visual appeal of the other WW sheets (for the most part)
but makes me think heavily of the Dark Matter line from Alternity, as well
as DnD. I'm not saying anything negative about the game here, just so
people are aware. But when it comes to the character sheets, there is a
certain look that I find displeasing.

The changes systematically that we can tell at this point (the entries on
the CS and from WoD.com) makes the system look neat, and seems my CoC/WoD
rules could be adapted once again for this easily. Though I have questions
about combat and will need to see the book with some more examples of weapon
damages, plus see it in play, this looks pretty slick. My own gripe is with
the CS. When I get the rules and play a game, I'll probably make my own
like with Mage and Changeling.
Anonymous
June 6, 2004 8:48:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Shane Graves wrote:

> I'm not fond of the actual layout.

<snip>

Ah.

Yeah. I actually agree. Somebody on the New WoD forum re-did it so it
was laid out like previous versions of the sheet, and it looked way
better. The layout isn't the best.

Fortunately, that's what fan-made sheets are for.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
Anonymous
June 6, 2004 9:03:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Stephenls"
> Shane Graves wrote:

> > I'm not fond of the actual layout.

> <snip>

> Ah.

> Yeah. I actually agree. Somebody on the New WoD forum re-did it so it
> was laid out like previous versions of the sheet, and it looked way
> better. The layout isn't the best.

Link?

> Fortunately, that's what fan-made sheets are for.

Exactly. I'm also amazed at sometimes how much smaller the file is. My
Mage PDF vs the one I got from WW.com is odd, and mine has a nearly
full-sheet JPG background.
Anonymous
June 6, 2004 9:03:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Shane Graves wrote:

> Link?

http://www.gotcr.com/images/wod20charactersheetedited.p...

or

http://www.gotcr.com/images/wod20charactersheetedited.j...

> Exactly. I'm also amazed at sometimes how much smaller the file is. My
> Mage PDF vs the one I got from WW.com is odd, and mine has a nearly
> full-sheet JPG background.

The White Wolf people aren't too good at compressing their .pdfs for
some reason.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
Anonymous
June 6, 2004 12:42:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

In article <2ifmokFlt46hU1@uni-berlin.de>,
Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>Yeah. I actually agree. Somebody on the New WoD forum re-did it so it
>was laid out like previous versions of the sheet, and it looked way
>better. The layout isn't the best.
>
>Fortunately, that's what fan-made sheets are for.

Some folks have already asked if I could make one. :) 
--
* darkelf@co.jyu.fi Working at http://www.iti.fi/ *
* http://www.co.jyu.fi/~darkelf/ Embedded hardware (MPC555/850) *
* d20 SRD in HTML format at: http://underdark.iti.fi/~skiriki/SRD/ *
Anonymous
June 6, 2004 5:40:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

> Out of interest, Raoul, where's your DA chronicle set?

Currently, it's set in june 1196.

The characters started as mortals, and played quite a long time
before being Embraced (some still regret having been embraced
so soon -- that is, at least after a year of play... -- which makes
me really believe the WoD 2.0 rulebook focused on mortals
and common rules is a good idea).

They are involved in the Omen War, in an uneasy alliance with
the "monstrous Tzimisce" against the "diabolical Tremere".

I plan to use both Giovanni, Ventrue and Transylvania Chronicles
to fill the void of my Chronicle (and to give the impression that
everything is not *always* tied to the principal scenario). They will
see the Anarch Wars, the rise of the Camarilla and of the Sabbat,
etc. etc.. All the while hunted by both sects because of what they
are supposed to know...

All in all, the Chronicle is an "End of the World" chronicle, with
the character being unwilling witnesses/agents of events (*) that will
lead to the Time of Judgement.

The rules for combat of the WoD 2.0 seems really good and I
hope to use them when the character will be confronted to the
Omen Wars and to the Anarch Wars.


-- Raoul Borges
To email me, remove the Xs from my email adress.

(*) quite original, isn't it?
; p
More seriously, this is for players who played Neonates in
the "Camarilla background" for years. They will have the possibility
to play "elder characters respected/feared by the vampire Sects".
Anonymous
June 6, 2004 5:51:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 13:40:26 +0200, "Raoul Borges"
<paerxcebal@hoxtmxail.cxom> wrote:

>> Out of interest, Raoul, where's your DA chronicle set?
>
>Currently, it's set in june 1196.
>
>The characters started as mortals, and played quite a long time
>before being Embraced (some still regret having been embraced
>so soon -- that is, at least after a year of play... -- which makes
>me really believe the WoD 2.0 rulebook focused on mortals
>and common rules is a good idea).

Yes. I think the focus on mortal lives before whatever supernatural
event turns you into a Vampire/Werewolf/Mage will really reinforce the
horror element of the game. If you give your characters a chance to
really interact with mortal friends, lovers and family - and then take
it all away - then the sense of loss ought to linger.


>They are involved in the Omen War, in an uneasy alliance with
>the "monstrous Tzimisce" against the "diabolical Tremere".
>
>I plan to use both Giovanni, Ventrue and Transylvania Chronicles
>to fill the void of my Chronicle (and to give the impression that
>everything is not *always* tied to the principal scenario). They will
>see the Anarch Wars, the rise of the Camarilla and of the Sabbat,
>etc. etc.. All the while hunted by both sects because of what they
>are supposed to know...
>
>All in all, the Chronicle is an "End of the World" chronicle, with
>the character being unwilling witnesses/agents of events (*) that will
>lead to the Time of Judgement.

Nice! So you're planning a long game then? How long do you see the
whole thing taking to play out? Is it based all across Europe - sounds
like you've got an East European focus to things.

>The rules for combat of the WoD 2.0 seems really good and I
>hope to use them when the character will be confronted to the
>Omen Wars and to the Anarch Wars.

Yes, I might well use them as well - the system looks like it might be
very easy to use and convert.

Cheers,

Charlie
Anonymous
June 6, 2004 6:01:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On 5 Jun 2004 21:00:47 -0700, funksaw@linuxmail.org (Funksaw) wrote:

>Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:<2icf2sFl9la7U1@uni-berlin.de>...
>> Shane Graves wrote:
>>
>> > Hm.
>>
>> > Not fond.
>>
>> 'Splain.
>
>Well, I like it.
>
>From what I've seen so far, WoD2 will decrease reliance on opposed
>rolls for combat. It's very much an "AC" style where you can decrease
>your enemy's chances to hit, but there's not much you can do to stop
>it.
>
>It's an unexpected improvement, but it IS an improvement, as you don't
>have to 'spend a turn for dodging" or "split your dicepool to dodge
>and attack" like you do in Exalted. But that means that a large
>attack dicepool is much more likely to blow through defense - and with
>a smaller number of skills with roughly the same amount of skill
>points (at least for mortals) as before, you're going to end up with
>more points put into weapon skills. (Especially since all the weapon
>skills are in the same skill group - physical) This is going to make
>for deadlier combat - and I've always found that the deadlier the
>combat, the less likely you are to get attached to your character and
>the less likely you are to therefore really get into roleplaying it.
>Contrary to conventional wisdom, I have *not* found that deadlier
>combat systems prevent people from doing stupid things. Godlike and
>GURPS have really disavowed me of that.

Depends on how you centrally you place combat as a focus. I'm a fan of
deadly combat systems because I like to use combat as a dramatic
device and not the default method of solving problems (well, at least
in WoD. Feng Shui, say, is a wholly different matter). That's because
I like the players to get that little frisson every time things get
rowdy of 'Is this the fight that gets me killed' - if combat's
commonplace, then that little edge tends to go. That's not to say that
a combat-heavy WoD isn't the way to go. But I've run Werewolf games
that had just two combats in twelve hours of real game-play time.
Vampire, in particular, is very well-suited to a minimal combat game.
Mage as well, as most Mages break rather easily, so sensible Mage
combat tends to involve an information-gathering phase, a preparation
phase, and then a 'hit 'em hard and fast' phase so the whole thing is
more of a strategic exercise than anything else.

So for my purposes, a streamlined, deadlier combat system sounds like
my cup of tea - because I don't want to use it very often, and when I
do, I want my players to know that I mean business.

If you give your players plenty of non-combat opportunities, then
they'll attached to their characters. So saying, Cthulhu's a perfect
example of a high-interaction, low-combat game, and nobody gets
attached to Cthulhu characters, unless they're a big fan of keen
disappointment, so my point is amenable to counter-arguments.

Cheers,

Charlie
Anonymous
June 6, 2004 6:02:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 23:24:18 GMT, Doug Kern
<douglasskern@earthlink.net> wrote:

>In article <2ic782Flf7pfU1@uni-berlin.de>, Stephenls
><stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>> Nimrod Jones wrote:
>>
>> > Well, in all fairness, if you're going to include Nosferatu it would be
>> > quite inane to *not* have them ugly as sin and looking the way they do since
>> > they take their name from, well, the film Nosferatu who kind of set the mold
>> > for how they look.
>>
>> > Of course, they could do something really whacky like make the Nosferatu so
>> > amazingly stunning that their unnatural beauty is interpretted as ugliness
>> > in the mind's eye because it cannot process what it's seeing. But that would
>> > be kinda strange.
>>
>> I'm hoping there's a single "Looks inhuman" clan, with the ability to
>> fill in for the Nosferatu, the Gangrel (well, their weakness), the more
>> inhuman Tzimisce, and any other nonhuman-lookin' vampires one can think
>> of. A single clan that can look like Count Orlock or Sasha Vycos
>> depending on the individual, in other words.
>>
>> Maybe the clan as a whole looks like the Nos, but the bloodline
>> offshoots look different. Assuming bloodlines still spring from or
>> exist within clans, that is.
>
>I was thinking the other day that in the new game, Nosferatu could also
>refer to a certain type of vampires that become mosterous looking via
>actions, or learning certain abilites. Sorta like how in KOtE a
>Kuei-Jin who was Yin inbalanced would be all rotted corpse-like and
>called a Ch'ing Shih, after the bone shintai power.

That's an interesting idea. Perhaps all the Disciplines have
side-effects, rather like Dementation? That would be a very
interesting way to go. Dark Ages makes it a little more explicit and
is all the better for it.

Cheers,

Charlie
Anonymous
June 6, 2004 8:04:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

In article <2i8tf1Fkkjk5U1@uni-berlin.de>,
Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
>http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknes...

Argh! It's apparently an Acrobat Reader 6 document, which shows up horribly
in Reader 5.

Doesn't anyone know about using the older version for a few years to let
people catch up?

-s
--
Copyright 2004, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ - YA blog. http://www.seebs.net/ - homepage.
C/Unix wizard, pro-commerce radical, spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon!
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Anonymous
June 6, 2004 10:57:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

> I have a perfectly serviceable Mage campaign that I built up over
> several years and i hope that it'll be relatively easy to convert to
> the new system if necessary. Most of my protagonists are not
> explicitly tied into specific groups, and I feel sure it would not be
> a tough chore to move them into the new ones. This is because when I
> very first set it up, I also toyed with the idea of running a Vampire
> campaign, so the bare bones are created in such a way as to make every
> Kindred without my having to utterly change theme and setting.

This has been the result of some intense talk over at RPG.NET, but my gut
tells me we may not even get Subjective Reality in the new Mage game, and we
probably won't get the Technocracy or the Ascension War. Mage's Ascension
War/Subjective Reality theme clashed very hard with Vampire's Jyhad, so the
entire backstory may well be entirely different. The setting may be an
entirely new continuity, with different world laws and history. There may
or may not be

Now, that being said, there may well be tons of good, useful stuff for WoD 1
fans to use. If the Magick system *can* be ported, and if it has good
stuff, I'm all for that.

But, WWGS told us that we're getting something entirely new. Most of the
talkon Forums seems to indicate to me that people think we're just getting
some kind of 'reset' of WoD 1. I, instead, am taking WWGS at their word.
It may not be *anything* that you expect.

> >Will be there some official rules to "fast-convert" characters from the
old
> >ST system to the new?

I'm sure that there will be, at the very least, Fan conversions. But,
remember, there well may not be a *Brujah* clan in the new setting. Or,
they may be the Thaumaturgy *faction* instead of the Tremere. We may not
even get the Tremere this getaround.

Or, we may. Let's just all be ready.

I'm very much looking forward to it.

CB
Anonymous
June 7, 2004 12:10:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Seebs"
> Stephenls

> >http://www.worldofdarkness.com/downloads/WorldofDarknes...

> Argh! It's apparently an Acrobat Reader 6 document, which shows up
horribly
> in Reader 5.

> Doesn't anyone know about using the older version for a few years to let
> people catch up?

Not when 6 has been out for damn near forever. It's free to download to
boot.
Anonymous
June 7, 2004 12:54:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Shane Graves wrote:
>Not when 6 has been out for damn near forever. It's free to download to
>boot.
>

Free to download doesn't do a damned bit of good when you download it and
install it and it says "Not supported by This OS."

I'm using Win98, which supposedly it -does- support according to download.com.
Anonymous
June 7, 2004 12:54:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Phillip Ames wrote:

> Free to download doesn't do a damned bit of good when you download it and
> install it and it says "Not supported by This OS."

> I'm using Win98, which supposedly it -does- support according to download.com.

Win98SE supports it. Win98 does not.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
Anonymous
June 7, 2004 1:14:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

> >All in all, the Chronicle is an "End of the World" chronicle, with
> >the character being unwilling witnesses/agents of events (*) that will
> >lead to the Time of Judgement.
>
> Nice! So you're planning a long game then? How long do you see the
> whole thing taking to play out? Is it based all across Europe - sounds
> like you've got an East European focus to things.

I do not know how long.
The problem is that we can't play as much as we would want, and that I'm
not as "productive" as I used to be...
: (

The chronicle started with 8 (eight) players, with a full 30 pages of
background introduction for each chapter. But it was too much work,
and I hope to continue with 4 players.

Anyway, I want to have them visit "monuments" of vampiric history.
They will discover hat happened to the Lamia, what's the reason behind
the Daughters of Cacophony. They will participate to the Anarch Wars
(As half of them are blood bonded to their Tzimisce lords, they will
probably join the Anarchs) and will be hunted because of what they know.
All the while, they will probably hunt for the infos they do not know,
which mean they will visit first all Europe, then probably expatriate
themselves in the U.S.A..

But the best part will be their "coming back to Paris", in 1999.
The players will have their Elders confronted to mere Neonates who
happen to have the remaining half of the riddle. The fact that the
Neonates are also the players' characters (in another Chronicle)
will add some spice to it...
; p

All in all, the greatest inspiration for the chronicle are not from WW,
but from a game: Silent Hill (that is Silent Hill 1, 2 and 3... And soon
4!). Both the original music and the unique mood of the games is enough
to have players wet their pants...
; p

I will perhaps use this Chronicle to "explain" the change of background.
I toyed with the possibility of recycling not only the rule system, but
perhaps even characters. Imagine that the character do not stop the
end of the world, but somehow change the history (this will need some
heavy Temporis, perhaps). Everything change. Even the history. Even
the characters themselves. When they wake after "the end". They are
strangers in a new earth. This would be perhaps a possibility to continue
play the characters in the new setting. But it will need a lot of work
because
it must not be "cheesy" or "easy". T. R. Hickman and M. Weis already
tried something like that with their DragonLance world, and (IMHO)
miserabily failed (or, more probably, willingly sabotaged their world).
Anyway, my players are a lot more tolerant, but I do not want to make
"ridicule" of their character... Well... Still thinking about it, and not
really convinced.
At least, I will probably use the rulesystem, if not the new background.


-- Raoul Borges
To email me, remove the Xs from my email adress
Anonymous
June 7, 2004 1:37:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Phillip Ames" <unseenlibrarian@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040606165403.05452.00000531@mb-m17.aol.com...
> Shane Graves wrote:
> >Not when 6 has been out for damn near forever. It's free to download to
> >boot.
> >
>
> Free to download doesn't do a damned bit of good when you download it and
> install it and it says "Not supported by This OS."
>
> I'm using Win98, which supposedly it -does- support according to
download.com.

Have you tried a less extremely outdated OS?

I'm sure no one here would be willing to try and burn you a copy of Windows
ME or XP.
Anonymous
June 7, 2004 4:03:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 18:57:31 -0400, "Intelligroove"
<kaiu_keiichi@nospam.com> wrote:

>
>> I have a perfectly serviceable Mage campaign that I built up over
>> several years and i hope that it'll be relatively easy to convert to
>> the new system if necessary. Most of my protagonists are not
>> explicitly tied into specific groups, and I feel sure it would not be
>> a tough chore to move them into the new ones. This is because when I
>> very first set it up, I also toyed with the idea of running a Vampire
>> campaign, so the bare bones are created in such a way as to make every
>> Kindred without my having to utterly change theme and setting.
>
>This has been the result of some intense talk over at RPG.NET, but my gut
>tells me we may not even get Subjective Reality in the new Mage game, and we
>probably won't get the Technocracy or the Ascension War. Mage's Ascension
>War/Subjective Reality theme clashed very hard with Vampire's Jyhad, so the
>entire backstory may well be entirely different. The setting may be an
>entirely new continuity, with different world laws and history. There may
>or may not be

Most of my stuff is set up as 'This is X. These are X's goals and
motivations. These are X's friends, and these are X's enemies.' Then
there'll be a bit about where X lives, and then some about how X tends
to pursue her goals.

*Hopefully* I ought to be able to just lift the whole thing gently out
of WoD 1 and into WoD 2. I can get away with this because it was all
reasonably low-powered. I think a higher-power game would be much
harder to port.

So saying, I might just keep it in WoD 1 and start something new in
WoD 2, because that will almost certainly be great fun.

Cheers,

Charlie
Anonymous
June 7, 2004 5:22:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Raoul Borges wrote:
>
> > > The only thing that comes to mind is using Wits + skill, with skill
> > > being whatever you'd use to do what you are trying to notice. I hope
> > > that is what they use, because it allows different people to be
> > > mechanically better at noticing different things - the street brawler
> > > character is more likely to notice that the guy down the street walks
> > > like he's got a knife in his pocket, while the clubber is more likely to
> > > notice if someone is luring drunken dancers out the back door.
> >
> > I really like that idea. If White Wolf doesn't pick up that mechanic,
> > I just might as a house rule.
>
> I agree...
> While one can say "Charisma" could be replaced by "Presence", and
> "Appearance" could be replaced by "Composure", nothing seems to
> replace "Perception"...

I see Composure as more than just your appearance, however. That
would be a part of it - how you dress and how well you "clean up," but I
also see Composure being a measure of well you present yourself in a
social situation and how well you react to unexpected surprises.
Anonymous
June 7, 2004 5:44:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

> > While one can say "Charisma" could be replaced by "Presence", and
> > "Appearance" could be replaced by "Composure", nothing seems to
> > replace "Perception"...
>
> I see Composure as more than just your appearance, however. That
> would be a part of it - how you dress and how well you "clean up," but I
> also see Composure being a measure of well you present yourself in a
> social situation and how well you react to unexpected surprises.

I agree...
; p


-- Raoul Borges
To email me, remove the Xs from my Email adress.
Anonymous
June 7, 2004 5:49:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

> > I'm using Win98, which supposedly it -does- support according to
> download.com.
>
> Have you tried a less extremely outdated OS?
>
> I'm sure no one here would be willing to try and burn you a copy of Windows
> ME or XP.

Avoid ME, though... I was a great mistake from Microsoft, from what I heard.

Err...
Why what I just wrote seems so funny when I re-read it?

:-/

-- Raoul Borges
To email me, remove the Xs from my email adress
!