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Nvida Cuda and AMD graphic cards .. need help pleas

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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September 8, 2012 6:02:23 PM

Hi! ..
I always look into this forum when I need answers .. hope someone can help me on this ..
Im trying to decide which GPU to buy .. and Im reeally dizzy right now ..

I work in digital art field lot of 2d design &illustration .. and now I want to learn 3D ( modeling and some rendering) -I already know some Z-brush and MODo .

recently I heard that Nvidia did something to CUDA performance for their non ¨pro¨ cards.. (400,500,600 series)

If I go whit Maya .. better buy AMD ? or Nvidia ? and if I choose 3Ds max .. better go with Nvidia? or..
AMD and Nvidia both handle well any of this 3d programs?




a guy here in another thread post this :

¨¨...All of the GeForce cards have neutered GPGPU capabilities, these are only available on the Quadro and Tesla cards. ¨¨

and in other forums I find similar comments about Nvidia ...
so then ,... some ppl advice me go with Nvidia ...!! others the opposite .. Im really confused ,, :p 


.
my pc (that I should buy next week):
i7 3770,
mobo: Z77 gigabyte GA-Z77X DH3
RAM: 2X8 CORSAIR VENGANCE
SSD: Crusial M4 128gb
HDD :Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB

monitor ; 27" yamakasi catleap S IPS 2560x1440 .

Power S.: Antec EA-750w Ya tenes

gaming: yes.. I do ..IM not a fanatic ..but time to time I like to :D  (battlefield3, guild wars2,etc..)

Vlad


a c 106 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
a b Î Nvidia
September 8, 2012 6:18:52 PM

it depends on the program. If the program has CUDA capabilities, then its better to use an nvidia based card. If it doesn't, most of the time, the AMD Stream Processors will be better.
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a c 142 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
September 8, 2012 6:21:24 PM

Depends on what your program uses. If your programs only use CUDA, your best bet for a non workstation card would be to grab an old 500 series card, GTX 580 being the best, but it is still quite expensive, the 570 is a cheaper solution with some models dropping to $250 in response to the 660Ti launch.

As you already know, the 600 series cards had their GPU compute capabilities crippled because nvidia wanted to drive up the sales of their more expensive workstation GPUs. If your programs use DirectCompute or OpenCL, then a high end HD 7000 series card would be your best bet, 7870 or higher will definitely perform well in both games and GPU compute scenarios.
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a c 291 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
September 8, 2012 6:22:07 PM

^
Actually, GTX 570 is <= HD 7870, and is much more powerful than HD 7850.

And I'd suggest going with GTX 570, since you never told us your budget.
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a c 199 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
a b Î Nvidia
September 8, 2012 6:22:09 PM

Especially if you're going to be doing pro work, I'd swap out the Samsung HDD for a Western Digital Black. While the Samsung probably offers similar performance, it has 1/5th the warranty; a miserable 1 yr. vs. (most) WD Blacks' 5 years.
As you've read, nVidia's Kepler cards have crippled compute performance. Fermi is good though. Depending on which card your applications can use, I'd recommend one of (in ascending order of power): GTX560Ti<GTX570<=HD7850<HD7870.
The PSU you've chosen is nice, but a little stronger than you need. A 650W version would be sufficient for any of these cards.
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September 8, 2012 8:13:56 PM

Well Nvidia and Compute only look useful when the intended software is designed around CUDA, and even in those scenarios the Radeons all do well. In the 90% other applications that are brand neutral there is absolutely no reason to take a Nvidia card.
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September 8, 2012 8:39:36 PM

Hi all .. thanks a lot for your answers! :)  my budget is 450 U$D . ( sorry O forgot that )

anyway .. my idea is to learn and afters do some freelance commissions,.. if the things go up then I would think to upgrade some pro cards .. like Quadro ..

the other thing I was keeping in mind is the monitor thing .. 2560x1440 is huge.. and since I do some gaming .. I was thinking in 670 or 7970 ,.. but ..BUT .. work performance is first .. so if... 580, or 570 is better for 3d work.. I dont care loosing some FPS in games .. my concern/doubt/worry was that I heard ¨¨..whole line of 400,500, and 600 had some problems whit CUDA and Autodesk Maya -3ds max programs ..
in short words .. I f I go with 3Ds max ( that has CUDA) Ill better go with some iNvidia cards .. better have some Cuda than dont have any?

or AMD cards like.. 7970 .. dont has CUDA but it performance has nothing to envy lets say in 3ds max?

I was researching a bit.. and I think Maya is more friendly with 7970.. (its supports Open CL .. if Im not wrrong :p ) but .. my friend here..is creepingme that gaming industry is using 3dmax ..
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a c 175 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
a b Î Nvidia
September 8, 2012 8:50:08 PM

You are probably going to have to look at all the programs you use and decide for yourself.

In the old days it didn't matter. Your CPU and ram was mattered most. The card simply took whatever the CPU feed it and put it on the screen. Now that we have direct compute, OpenCL, and CUDA, it matters a bit more. Look at the software you have, see what it supports, and then buy.

Kepler has bad 64bit compute abilities. The cards so far have only one 64bit block. The older 5xx geforce cards have more. If the GTX580 is too much then get the GTX570 over any GTX6xx card.
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September 8, 2012 9:00:25 PM

Onus said:
Especially if you're going to be doing pro work, I'd swap out the Samsung HDD for a Western Digital Black. While the Samsung probably offers similar performance, it has 1/5th the warranty; a miserable 1 yr. vs. (most) WD Blacks' 5 years.
As you've read, nVidia's Kepler cards have crippled compute performance. Fermi is good though. Depending on which card your applications can use, I'd recommend one of (in ascending order of power): GTX560Ti<GTX570<=HD7850<HD7870.
The PSU you've chosen is nice, but a little stronger than you need. A 650W version would be sufficient for any of these cards.


thanks for the advicejtt283 .. yeah I think I would take your advice .. I ll go for that WD Black s :) 

I got your idea .. since ppl around (some friends here) recommend me to go with 3dmax (gaming industry bla bla..) and 3dmaxs and iray use CUDA ... but since nVida crippled compute performance on their cards .. ( in some forums Nvidia say s they would fix that in near(?) future :p  ) I was wondering if I go with 7970 .. how bad that would be with programs that can benefit from cuda but since cuda is creeped .. ?
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September 8, 2012 9:06:55 PM

Supernova1138 said:
Depends on what your program uses. If your programs only use CUDA, your best bet for a non workstation card would be to grab an old 500 series card, GTX 580 being the best, but it is still quite expensive, the 570 is a cheaper solution with some models dropping to $250 in response to the 660Ti launch.

As you already know, the 600 series cards had their GPU compute capabilities crippled because nvidia wanted to drive up the sales of their more expensive workstation GPUs. If your programs use DirectCompute or OpenCL, then a high end HD 7000 series card would be your best bet, 7870 or higher will definitely perform well in both games and GPU compute scenarios.



ooh thanks .. 600 series only? huh I thought that whole line was crippled ! so if I go for 3ds max - iray .. better grab 1 or 2 580 .. if Maya or maybe go with AMD ...
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a c 106 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
a b Î Nvidia
September 8, 2012 9:07:02 PM

Vlad28 said:
thanks for the advicejtt283 .. yeah I think I would take your advice .. I ll go for that WD Black s :) 

I got your idea .. since ppl around (some friends here) recommend me to go with 3dmax (gaming industry bla bla..) and 3dmaxs and iray use CUDA ... but since nVida crippled compute performance on their cards .. ( in some forums Nvidia say s they would fix that in near(?) future :p  ) I was wondering if I go with 7970 .. how bad that would be with programs that can benefit from cuda but since cuda is creeped .. ?


most programs will use both cuda and stream cores in those situations the cuda will be faster of course. If the program uses cuda alone, then little gain would be had with the amd cards. Ideally, the 570 and 580 are the best overall general non professional gpu for gaming and some work. as it more or less has compatibility with most things.
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a c 175 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
a b Î Nvidia
September 8, 2012 9:09:19 PM

If you go with a 7970 you won't be able to use CUDA at all.

I wouldn't worry too much about the crippled performance. Yes, if you get a pro card it will be faster. But spending that much on a card doesn't make sense for most of us. Getting a GTX5xx card of some sort is usually a better idea. The crippled thing I get upset about is the 64bit abilities of the new Kepler cards seeing as the Fermi cards weren't limited like that

Edit: In the GTX480 and 580 each block of shaders can do 64bit FP math. Each block. In the GTX680, only one block can. This limits is CUDA processing abilities a lot. If your goal is to do 64bit CUDA enabled math, the GTX580 will be a lot better then the 680.
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September 8, 2012 9:09:25 PM

I will try to do a little bit of research on my own ... but if someone can confirm this .. : nVida crippled the series 600 line in computing or the whole series 400,500,600 ?
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a c 175 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
a b Î Nvidia
September 8, 2012 9:16:08 PM

Compared to what? The entire Geforce line compared to the quadros are crippled. The GF6xx series compared to the GF5xx cards are crippled.
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a c 106 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
a b Î Nvidia
September 8, 2012 9:16:27 PM

just the 600 series, as they basically changed the design of it
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a c 291 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
September 8, 2012 9:17:18 PM

Only 600.
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September 8, 2012 9:39:18 PM

dudewithbow , sunius thanks a lot! :) 
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September 8, 2012 9:44:59 PM

Best answer selected by Vlad28.
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September 8, 2012 9:54:42 PM

I would try to fine tune a lot more .what programs I would use .. ( meh they are not so many.. 3ds max or Maya .. I would try to research more on that .. and then decide .. as far things are going .. part of my brains say s go with 7970 .is newer .. .. .. I will check prices but 580 is really getting my attention .. itwould be really a joke if I buy a580 and in the next day nVidia fix the cuda problem with their 600 series XDDDD LOL XDD ahh life ...
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a c 175 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
a b Î Nvidia
September 8, 2012 10:10:24 PM

There is nothing to fix. In the GK104 chip which makes up the GTX680 there is only one block of CUDA cores that can compute 64bit FP. Its a hardwired thing and not something Nvidia will change. If you want that ability, they want you to buy the more expensive quadro cards. Simple as that. The GTX580/fermi chips have more 64bit compute cores. Simple as that.
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a c 106 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
a b Î Nvidia
September 8, 2012 10:13:08 PM

nvidia is not likely going to go back into putting much compute effort into any future gtx models. Doing so will probably increase cost, which will ruin it in the gaming gpu race, as the cards itself are moderately high in price already. Nvidia is going in the direction of making gaming and professional work on seperate cards.
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September 8, 2012 11:45:15 PM

4745454b , and dudewitbow : ooh wow .. I didnt know that .. really .. and I thought it was something momentary ..

maybe this would be interesting for ppl here:

from this thread : http://area.autodesk.com/forum/autodesk-3ds-max/autodes...

¨¨.. apaprently the new GTX 600 series do not work right with 3ds max 2013 nor iRay (yet).

when they do...I hope the cards perform better then the 500 series...or even the 400 series… hearing they are not...but guess wait ...and wait...and wait.... and see. uggh.

Also.. the GTX 690 is apprently (2) GPUS with 2 GB each… I think that card and the GTX 590 aren;t good for iRay...iRay only sees the 2GB and NOT the FULL 4GB total. So better off to get a GTX 670 or GTX 680 that has 4GB and all 4GB would be seen by iRay (once they implement the Kepler architecture into Max/iRay that is!). The GTX 580 has 3GB on some models.

Can’t wait to see where the GTX 670/680 are heading with max/iray… hpefully it’s for BETTER and NOT for worse. Hate to downgrade to a GTX 580 vs NVIDIA/AUTODESK forcing a $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Quadro on us.... ¨¨
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a c 142 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
September 9, 2012 5:03:24 AM

Video RAM isn't going to be much of a problem when the 600 series cards have crippled compute abilities in the first place. Sadly, if work is your top priority, and your programs only support CUDA, you'll have to sacrifice some gaming performance and get a 500 series card. The 600 series cards will always perform worse in GPU compute due to intentional hardware limitations.

Hopefully somebody comes out with a really good game that uses GPU compute features heavily, then nvidia will be forced to bring compute back into their gaming cards in order to stay competitive with AMD.
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a c 273 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
a c 172 Î Nvidia
September 9, 2012 7:05:31 AM

This topic has been closed by Mousemonkey
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