burntpizza :
Nope, 7870 is between GTX 660 and 600 TI on all games. 7950 is between 670 and 660 TI. It almost never lose to 660 TI with catalyst 12.11.
Correction: It almost never loses to the 660 Ti when the AMD cards are tested with the new catalyst 12.11 drivers and the nVidia cards are tested with old drivers.
You discounted the references posted because the AMD and nVidia cards were both tested with old drivers but here on 11/05 you are apparently entirely comfortable with a test that uses current (10/22 release date) AMD drivers but used nVidia drivers that are two generations old. Nvidia's latest 310.23 drivers were released on 10/23.
Your reference only shows that the AMD 7950 with the new catalyst 12.11 drivers now "beat" the nVidia 660 Ti when tested with the old 306.23 nVidia drivers that came out 09/23. How do you support the validity in comparing one card with drivers released on 10/22 when the other card is tested
not with the then current drivers which were released on 10/23 but with drivers which are now 2 generations old.
See
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Catalyst_12.11_Performance/2.html
The fact is nVidia's has since released the 306.97 and 310.23 drivers and these were not used in the comparison. The current 310.23 driver came out the day after Catalyst 12.11, the 306.97 drivers came out almost two weeks before !!! To make the comparison valid today, a true comparison would have compared 12.11 with 310.23 .... that did not happen.
Your "general" link shows 91% for the 7950 (up from 85% with pre-12.11 drivers) and an 89% for the 660 Ti @ 1920 X 1200, the new 12.11 driver having taken the 7950 from a 4% deficit to a 2% advantage over the two generations old nVidia driver. But, again, this does not account for performance improvements from nVidia's last two driver upgrades. So how is this test in any way relevant to today's discussion ? If you consider my references invalid because both drivers are now old, why is your reference somehow valid when one driver is current and the other is two generations old ?
nVidia reports various speed improvements with the 310.23 drivers .... up to 6% in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, 3% in Batman: Arkham City, 4% in Dragon Age II ..... these improvements are NOT reflected in your source and therefore the comparison is wholly invalidated.
I called the 3% advantage to nVidia (your link says 4%) when both were tested w/ then current drivers "statistically insignificant". Let's ignore for a moment that there are undoubtedly performance improvements associated with the two new nVidia driver updates that were not included in the testing you referenced. If I called nVidia's 3-4% advantage statistically insignificant, then at half that, the 2% advantage AMD now (again ignoring the two new nVidia driver updates) would also have to be called statistically insignificant. However, as long as the 7950 costs anything greater than 2% more than the 660 Ti, ya still gotta call the 660 Ti the better buy .... at least at1920 x 1200 (@ 2560 x 1600, I'd still go 7950). And it does.....looking at the common brands on newegg today:
Gigabyte 7950 - $300
MSI 7950 - $320
Gigabyte 660 Ti - $280
MSI 660 Ti - $280
We see a 2% performance advantage coming at an average 11% price increase when Nvidia 2 generation old drivers are compared with AMD's current ones. I'd normally give some credit for the 3 free games ya get with the 7950 but as they either old, already bought or uninteresting, couldn't bring myself to do so. Of course, if the games interest you, that could swing the deal.
I think it's a safe bet that the 310.23 drivers put the 660 Ti on par or within 1 or 2 % above / below the 7950 with the 12.11 drivers. Each subsequent release will push one or the other a few % points above the other only to get leapfrogged the next time the other guy comes out with a new driver tweaked to perform well under certain benchmarks. With 1 - 3 % points separating the two, AMD will have to yet again drop the price of the 7950 .... it started at $450, went to $400, $350 and now at $300, it's at 66% of it's original price.
It's not enough. To stay competitive, it's going to have to match or beat the 660 Ti's $280 price tag. Otherwise nVidia will only grow its sales advantage. In only 2.5 months since it's release date, compared to the 7950's 8.5 months, the 660 Ti has already outsold the 7950 by a ratio of 3:2 I think that says it all with regard to the perceived value of both cards in the minds of the gaming community.
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