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System for gaming

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November 5, 2012 8:28:16 PM

Hi, i'm from E.U. - RO and next month i want to buy a new system for gaming ; i can't decide on some of the components ... and i need some options for others. Sorry for bad spelling ! :) 

CPU: i5 3570K ~ 300 $ -- for future OC ... over a few years i hope
CPU Cooler : stock its ok for now i think ?!
MB : Gigabyte Z77X-D3H ~ 188$ VS
Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H ~181$
(indecision : Memory frequency supported - in case i want to upgrade beyond 1600 MHz )
HDD : no
SSD: no
GPU: Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX660 TI, 2048MB ~ 415$ VS
Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX660, 2GB ~291$
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 latency 8-8-8-24 (high profile red) ~83$ VS
Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 latency 9-9-9-24 (low profile white)
radiator Vengeance White LP /Voltage:1.35V ~ 72$ VS
Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 latency 9-9-9-24 (low profile blue) ~ 59$
Case: i need one -- decent /not expensive ... any suggestions ?!
Power Supply: suggestions please

Total for now (on high value ) : 986$ can go to 1200$ MAX X_X
Thank you !





More about : system gaming

November 6, 2012 12:19:08 AM

Instead of getting a 660ti or 660 get a 7870 or 7950. The 7870 is about the same price as a 660 and is as strong as a 660ti, and the 7950 is about the same price as a 660ti and about as strong as a 670.
a c 212 4 Gaming
November 6, 2012 12:43:27 AM

It's very close but TechPowerup has booth the 7870 and 7950 coming in behind and the 660 Ti and at a higher cost per frame. Common games in their testing includes Alan Wake, AvP, Batman Arkham City, BF3, BattleForge, COD4, Civilization 5, Crysis. Crysis 2, Dirt 3, Dragon Age II, Hard Reset, Metro 2033, Stalker CoP, Starcraft 2, Shogun 2, Skyrim, WoW, Diablo II, Max Payne 3, Sniper Elite V2. The difference performance is negligible at 3% but the difference in cost per frame at 10% is significant. In now ay can either of those cards be talked about in the same breath as the 670

660 Ti gets 1387.41 fps
7870 gets 1236.6 fps
7950 gets 1348.2 fps
670 gets 1475.2

The 670 TOP gets 1770.8 in common tested games compared with the 7970 TOP's 1763.2

Hardware.Info uses AvP High 4AA, Batman AC Very High 4AA, BF3 Ultra High 4AA, Crysis 2 Ultra High Edge AA, Dirt 3 Ultra 4AA, Hard Reset Ultra 4AA, Metro 2033 Very High, Skyrim High 4AA and Shogun 2 Ultra 4AA in their Game Suite and also gives the 660 Ti the edge over the 7950

GTX 660 Ti gets 566.0 fps at cost of $0.49 per frame
HD 7950 gets 557.4 fps at cost of $0.55 per frame
GTX 670 gets 650.2 fps at cost of $0.55 per frame

To be fair THG's test had the situation reversed but it also must be noted that their test went out if the way to select games and used high MSAA would present specific memory bandwidth limitations for the 660 Ti narrower bandwidth. If you primarily play those games AND use 8X MSAA on them, then the 7950 would be the better choice. If you play a wide range of games and use setting more atypical to most gamers, then I like the 660 Ti.

But at $415 (£260 ex VAT), I'd be looking for a 670
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_670...

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2gb-asus-gtx-670-directc...(x16)-6008mhz-gddr5-gpu-915mhz-boost-980mhz-cores-1344-2xd
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2gb-asus-gtx-670-directc...


I'd get the cooler from the getgo as its a pain in the keester to install after the fact

$30 Hyper 212
$50 Hyper 612
$80 Phanteks

This MoBo runs about $10 more and is one of my favs
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I highly recommend this RAM and you want LOW profile
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Case / PSU - Corsair 500R w/ TX750 V2 PSU
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November 6, 2012 1:02:54 AM

You are looking at older drivers obviously, ananctech did a review for the 12.11 drivers that are coming out soon. Also I think those are wrong, because the 7950 almost always beats the 660ti. The new drivers are increasing the fps buy an average of 10%. BF3 was increasing by 20fps, making even the 7870 beat the 660ti. I don't know where those reviews came from, because nvidia is a huge rip off compared to amd. Also the fps were in the thousands, which is way high for any card. I am pretty sure most cards are capped at 300.
edit hear is tomshardware gpu hierarchy with 7870 on the 660ti tier and the 7950 on par with the 660ti.
November 6, 2012 1:18:40 AM

JackNaylorPE said:
It's very close but TechPowerup has booth the 7870 and 7950 coming in behind and the 660 Ti and at a higher cost per frame.
670 gets 1475.2



Nope, 7870 is between GTX 660 and 600 TI on all games. 7950 is between 670 and 660 TI. It almost never lose to 660 TI with catalyst 12.11. On highly played games such as battlefield 3 and skyrim, 7870 beats or matches 660 TI and 7950 outright stomps it.

Price 7870=660, 7950=660TI? and you get 2(confirm?) games

BF3: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Catalyst_12.11_P...
Skyrim: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Catalyst_12.11_P...
General: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Catalyst_12.11_P...
a c 212 4 Gaming
November 6, 2012 1:34:09 AM

lt_dan_zsu said:
You are looking at older drivers obviously, anantech did a review for the 12.11 drivers that are coming out soon...... The new drivers are increasing the fps buy an average of 10%. BF3 was increasing by 20fps, making even the 7870 beat the 660ti .


nVidia has new drivers too. And yes they also show significant speed improvements.

Quote:
Also I think those are wrong, because the 7950 almost always beats the 660ti.


Well they aren't at the referenced sites which are deemed by the population here to be highly reputable. If AMD has a performance advantage, I am at a loss to understand why they are drastically slashing prices on these cards.

Quote:
I don't know where those reviews came from,


The sources are in the post.

Techpowerup = techpowerup.com
Hardwareinfo = http://uk.hardware.info

Quote:
because nvidia is a huge rip off compared to amd.


They buying public doesn't seem to think so and have chosen nViida over AMD by over 2 to 1 margin despite the AMD cards having a huge head start before the nVidia cards came out. Since release, the top 3 nVidia cards have captured 3.94% of the market as measured by what's hitting Steam servers as compared to 1.86% for AMD

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

GTX 670 1.79% / HD7970 0.71%
GTX 680 1.39% / HD7950 0.54%
GTX 660 Ti 0.76% / HD7870 0.61%


Quote:
Also the fps were in the thousands, which is way high for any card. I am pretty sure most cards are capped at 300


When you test 18 games and each averages say 75 fps "per game", the sum of all the individual tests will total 1350 fps. For example .....

Alan Wake 71.2
Batman Arkham City 76.6
BF3 54.5
BattleForge 124.0
Civilization 5 65.0
Crysis 45.5
Crysis 2 54.5
Dragon Age II 48.3
Hard Reset 72.5
Metro 2033 30.0
Stalker CoP 77.1
Starcraft 2 135.0
Shogun 2 42.4
Skyrim 74.7
WoW 91.1
Diablo II 163.9
Max Payne 3 58.9
Sniper Elite V2 63.0

Total of all of the above = 1348.2

The 7950 and 660 Ti are very close in performance and my recommendation for either card depends on how the cards will be used. At resolutions above 1920 x 1200 and for very high MSAA settings, I'd recommend 7950. For more typical uses and 1920 x 1200 (or if CUDA, PhysX or 3D are in the picture), I gotta recommend nVidia.

The performance advantage is statistically insignificant and if AMD were to drop prices by another 5%, that would even out the cost per frame and I'd have to call it a toss up.
November 6, 2012 2:17:53 AM

They are slashing the prices because everyone is an idiot and thinks that nvidia is still better, even though that hasn't been the case for 3 years. Every place I see has the 7950 higher than the 660ti, even with the old drivers. Also I don't know where your numbers came from because you had things at over 1000 fps.
a c 212 4 Gaming
November 6, 2012 3:41:10 AM

burntpizza said:
Nope, 7870 is between GTX 660 and 600 TI on all games. 7950 is between 670 and 660 TI. It almost never lose to 660 TI with catalyst 12.11.


Correction: It almost never loses to the 660 Ti when the AMD cards are tested with the new catalyst 12.11 drivers and the nVidia cards are tested with old drivers.

You discounted the references posted because the AMD and nVidia cards were both tested with old drivers but here on 11/05 you are apparently entirely comfortable with a test that uses current (10/22 release date) AMD drivers but used nVidia drivers that are two generations old. Nvidia's latest 310.23 drivers were released on 10/23.

Your reference only shows that the AMD 7950 with the new catalyst 12.11 drivers now "beat" the nVidia 660 Ti when tested with the old 306.23 nVidia drivers that came out 09/23. How do you support the validity in comparing one card with drivers released on 10/22 when the other card is tested not with the then current drivers which were released on 10/23 but with drivers which are now 2 generations old.

See http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Catalyst_12.11_P...

The fact is nVidia's has since released the 306.97 and 310.23 drivers and these were not used in the comparison. The current 310.23 driver came out the day after Catalyst 12.11, the 306.97 drivers came out almost two weeks before !!! To make the comparison valid today, a true comparison would have compared 12.11 with 310.23 .... that did not happen.

Your "general" link shows 91% for the 7950 (up from 85% with pre-12.11 drivers) and an 89% for the 660 Ti @ 1920 X 1200, the new 12.11 driver having taken the 7950 from a 4% deficit to a 2% advantage over the two generations old nVidia driver. But, again, this does not account for performance improvements from nVidia's last two driver upgrades. So how is this test in any way relevant to today's discussion ? If you consider my references invalid because both drivers are now old, why is your reference somehow valid when one driver is current and the other is two generations old ?

nVidia reports various speed improvements with the 310.23 drivers .... up to 6% in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, 3% in Batman: Arkham City, 4% in Dragon Age II ..... these improvements are NOT reflected in your source and therefore the comparison is wholly invalidated.

I called the 3% advantage to nVidia (your link says 4%) when both were tested w/ then current drivers "statistically insignificant". Let's ignore for a moment that there are undoubtedly performance improvements associated with the two new nVidia driver updates that were not included in the testing you referenced. If I called nVidia's 3-4% advantage statistically insignificant, then at half that, the 2% advantage AMD now (again ignoring the two new nVidia driver updates) would also have to be called statistically insignificant. However, as long as the 7950 costs anything greater than 2% more than the 660 Ti, ya still gotta call the 660 Ti the better buy .... at least at1920 x 1200 (@ 2560 x 1600, I'd still go 7950). And it does.....looking at the common brands on newegg today:

Gigabyte 7950 - $300
MSI 7950 - $320

Gigabyte 660 Ti - $280
MSI 660 Ti - $280

We see a 2% performance advantage coming at an average 11% price increase when Nvidia 2 generation old drivers are compared with AMD's current ones. I'd normally give some credit for the 3 free games ya get with the 7950 but as they either old, already bought or uninteresting, couldn't bring myself to do so. Of course, if the games interest you, that could swing the deal.

I think it's a safe bet that the 310.23 drivers put the 660 Ti on par or within 1 or 2 % above / below the 7950 with the 12.11 drivers. Each subsequent release will push one or the other a few % points above the other only to get leapfrogged the next time the other guy comes out with a new driver tweaked to perform well under certain benchmarks. With 1 - 3 % points separating the two, AMD will have to yet again drop the price of the 7950 .... it started at $450, went to $400, $350 and now at $300, it's at 66% of it's original price.

It's not enough. To stay competitive, it's going to have to match or beat the 660 Ti's $280 price tag. Otherwise nVidia will only grow its sales advantage. In only 2.5 months since it's release date, compared to the 7950's 8.5 months, the 660 Ti has already outsold the 7950 by a ratio of 3:2 I think that says it all with regard to the perceived value of both cards in the minds of the gaming community.
a c 212 4 Gaming
November 6, 2012 4:46:25 AM

lt_dan_zsu said:
Also I don't know where your numbers came from because you had things at over 1000 fps.


I told you, twice. That's what happens when ya add numbers together ... they get bigger.

Did ya see the part where I said:

Quote:
Total of all of the above = 1348.2


which was typed right below individual fps performance listings for 18 individual games ?

Look at the post, it's all laid out for you .... just like the sources / links you can't find.

In the tests.....

...... Alan Wake scored 71.2 fps ....
...,.. Batman Arkham City scored 76.6
...... BF3 scored 54.5
...... BattleForge scored124.0 .....

and so on through the 18th game in the list, Sniper Elite V2

So add 71.2 + 76.6 + 54.5 + 124.0 and so on ..... when ya finished adding the fps for all of the 18 games together, ya get the total of 1348.2

Ya compare the 18 game total of 1348.2 for the 7950 with the 18 game total of 1387.41 for the 660 Ti and ya see that, overall ....that is all 18 games added up together, we see that the 660 Ti had a statistically insignificant 3% higher total than the 7950 at 1920 x 1200.

Techpowerup themselves called it 4% (85% versus 89%) in this 1920 x 1200 table. With the new 12.11 drivers the 7950 jumped to 91% compared to the same 89% for the 660 Ti when using the 2 generations old nVidia drivers. Perhaps they will do a comparison with the new nVidia 310.23 drivers and we'll see how the two compare today. Either way, with such insignificant differences, overall those 18 games, the 660 Ti is still the better buy on a cost per frame basis at 1920 x 1200 and the 7950 us still the better buy at 2560 x 1600.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Catalyst_12.11_P...

Quote:
They are slashing the prices because everyone is an idiot


I think it's just cause they put the effort into finding and reading posted links on forums, review numerous tests instead of just one or two, and are able to add the individual performance numbers together in order to make overall comparisons.
November 6, 2012 6:47:53 AM

JackNaylorPE said:

Quote:
They are slashing the prices because everyone is an idiot


I think it's just cause they put the effort into finding and reading posted links on forums, review numerous tests instead of just one or two, and are able to add the individual performance numbers together in order to make overall comparisons.

I happen to think its just that people know nvidia better, because practically every OEM gaming machine happens to have a GTX card in it, and there are ads everywhere. If it were up to me I'd go for a 7950 for better rounded performance, but I can see how people would gravitate towards the 660 Ti. After all, you see nvidia ads everywhere, when you almost never see a AMD ad.

Overall though its a toss up, but like i said before, for better rounded performance i.e. bandwidth and card performance, I would go 7950
November 6, 2012 12:52:07 PM

thank you all ... i chose 660 Ti because is cheaper than 7950 ...
November 6, 2012 8:34:31 PM

If you are going for lower prices, get the 7870! It is cheaper than both and just as powerful as the 660ti.
!