Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (
More info?)
illecebra <vyyrproenROT13@yahoo.com> wrote:
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You've got a PGP signature thingy going on there. It doesn't
bother me, but you might want to have it looked it.
> Vis Sierra wrote:
> | illecebra <vyyrproenROT13@yahoo.com> wrote:
> | First off, the general disclaimer is to recommend against it. It
> | is a bit of an embarrassment to White Wolf in that it made racist
> | stereotypes into supernatural powers for that race in the WoD.
> | I know that a lot of character types look like racial caricatures
> | (such as drunken Fianna), but at least the others applied to some
> | fictional group existing only in the WoD. WoD:G was supposed to
> | cover Romani, a real people, magically empowered in the WoD. The
> | whole thing was not a good idea, but the implementation was worse
> | ('Gypsy' racial powers included supernaturally erotic dancing and
> | 'Truth of the Rom' - the ability to lie absolutely convincingly).
>
> I have to say that I'm now /more/ interested in seeing the rules, but
> for different reasons. I can't imagine them getting that stupid about
> it, especially when the Old Religion (my Hungarian is atrocious, so I
> won't attempt to type the appropriate name) is so rich with things you
> could build on to make a fantastic character out of. Then again, some
> of my relatives would roll over in their graves to hear such a suggestion.
I think it was more that it offended living Romani than dead non-
Romani Hungarian Gypsies, no disrespect to your honored ancestors
intended.
> | You can find a number of threads on WoD:G in Google Groups. In
> | general, the articles are pretty negative on the book. Many also
> | contain racist epithets, used to illustrate that the word 'Gypsy'
> | itself is a derogatory term used against Romani (just to forewarn
> | you, if you're bothered by such language).
>
> I really don't get the bit about the word "Gypsy." I am of Gypsy
> descent, and my entire family uses the term "Gypsy" to describe our
> heritage. Not all Gypsies are Rom/Roma/Romani (I am Gypsy but not
: Romani).
I think that's the key. The book uses Rom and Gypsy interchange-
ably, so don't expect much support for Irish Travelers or others.
According to WoD:G, all Gypsies (meaning Rom) are descended from
one woman around the time of the First or Second City of Vampire
mythology. I don't recall whether WoD:G attributed other groups
that have ben called Gypsies a relationship to the fictional Rom
ancestor or simply left them out as not being 'true' Gypsies.
A lot of what was offensive was because it played on stereotypes
associated with the Romani in particular. One thing that stands
out is that real-world Romani have a strong tradition of purity-
related taboos. Here's an example from the Patrin Web site:
The marimé concept applied to personal hygiene means
"dirty" or "polluted." Much of it stems from the division
of a woman's body into two parts, above the waist and below
the waist. A woman is clean from the waist up and
"polluted" from the waist down. There is no shame, lashav,
connected with the upper part of the body. The lower part
of the body is, however, an object of shame, baro lashav,
because it is associated with menstruation. The fact that
blood flows without injury seems to be the proof of a
bodily impurity. This concept of marimé as applied to women
is one explanation in many tribes the Roma women wear long
skirts and the fact that the bottom of those skirts must
not touch a man other than the Roma woman's husband.
-
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/beliefs.htm#Taboos
Blood is especially profane. In WoD:G, this is presented as a
sham, a belief presented to outsiders to conceal that blood is
the source of their magical powers, and the sourcebook includes
sharing blood on a knife (IIRC) as a way of pooling their powers.
As a gamer, it may be a slick, atmospheric system, but to Romani,
it's highly offensive as a presentation of the Rom in the WoD.
: There are other terms that older family members used to use,
> but since the old languages have fallen out of use, those terms have
> gone to the wayside as well... I know the one my grandfather most often
> used translates to "the people."
Nod. I am not an expert and have done little or no research, but
I'm given to understand that to Romani, especially in Europe, the
word "Gypsy" can be highly offensive.
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=gypsies&meta=group%3Dalt.games.whitewolf.*
> |
> | That said, if you do want a copy, you can purchase an electronic
> | version from DriveThruRPG.com. It's $7.50 and requires that you
> | use Adobe Acrobat 6 (available only on Windows 98SE and later or
> | Mac OS X).
>
> Don't forget Linux. Never forget Linux.
As Stephenls pointed out, Adobe has. Or rather, the ability to
view DRM-protected documents on Linux hasn't been a high enough
priority that for Adobe to port Acrobat 6 to Linux yet.
You may be able to try some sort of emulation to get it to run
thinking it's running under Windows, but I have no idea whether
it would work.
> Thanks for the info.
De nada.
If you do come up with any non-Rom Gypsy material for your game,
please keep a.g.ww in mind. WoD:G has made Gypsy magic basically
taboo, which has left a void for Romani and others called Gypsies
being represented in a setting full of varied spiritual beliefs.
Unfortunately, that's left WoD:G as the last word on the subject.
The newsgroup's in a bit of a lull while White Wolf works on the
new World of Darkness and could use some new blood...so to speak.
> Susan
Vis Sierra
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