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Have Lenovo 410 w/integrated intel core I5 graphics card, power supply 280w.

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September 12, 2012 7:29:50 PM

Have a Lenovo Ideacentre K410 with 280 W PSU.

What is the best graphics card I can run on it. I am currently running an Intel HD 3000 chipset. Which I have heard is equal to a 5450.

Are there any better options that I purchase?

Was thinking along the lines of a 6670 or 7750
a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 12, 2012 7:52:54 PM

Tennis97 said:
Have a Lenovo Ideacentre K410 with 280 W PSU.

What is the best graphics card I can run on it. I am currently running an Intel HD 3000 chipset. Which I have heard is equal to a 5450.

Are there any better options that I purchase?

Was thinking along the lines of a 6670 or 7750


7750 will run fine on your computer. See from Toms review:



From HardwareCanucks:



Your computer is way less power hungry than the Tomshardware/HardwareCanucks default benchmark configuration, so I suspect your absolute full load while gaming wattage is <200 watts.

Also, the 7750 has roughly a 10-15 watt less TDP than the 6670, and nearly 1.5-2x the performance.
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September 12, 2012 9:43:39 PM

Which of these two models would you suggest?

HIS - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

or

XFX core - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


just for referance. would either of these be fine?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

from what I could tell, they cant, but its always nice to know.


EDIT: almost forgot, in terms of 6670's, what would you reccomend
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a b ) Power supply
September 12, 2012 9:58:05 PM

Tennis97 said:
Which of these two models would you suggest?

HIS - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

or

XFX core - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


just for referance. would either of these be fine?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

from what I could tell, they cant, but its always nice to know.


EDIT: almost forgot, in terms of 6670's, what would you reccomend


I would suggest the Asus 7750:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

If only because I know the fan is very quiet (and Techpowerup concurs), and the fan is a 4 pin, PWM controlled fan, the GPU is shock mounted (not necessary, but nice to have), and the PCB is well cleaned before it left the factory. Mostly small subtle details, but since the cost is nearly the same...

Otherwise, if you prefer non-ASUS, then stay away from the Core edition by XFX. That one has the least warranty of all the cards you listed.

Of the 7770s you listed (you listed 3 7750s and 2 7770s), they MIGHT work in your computer, since the TDP is only about 20 watts higher on the 7770 compared to the 7750. But I don't recommend a 7770 for <300 W PSU. I'm almost certain you'll get away with a 7770 with your PSU, but you'll probably want to not load the PSU too close to its maximum when CPU+GPU are stressed, and you inadvertently plug in a USB hard drive or something. Plus, leaving the PSU not fully loaded should lower its temperatures and lengthen its life span.

At this point of time, I will NOT recommend a 6670. But if you HAVE to get a 6670 (although I'm not sure why), be absolutely sure to get one with GDDR5. The DDR3 version has less than half the memory bandwidth of the GDDR5 (full-fat) version.
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September 12, 2012 10:14:17 PM

Maxx_Power said:
I would suggest the Asus 7750:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

If only because I know the fan is very quiet (and Techpowerup concurs), and the fan is a 4 pin, PWM controlled fan, the GPU is shock mounted (not necessary, but nice to have), and the PCB is well cleaned before it left the factory. Mostly small subtle details, but since the cost is nearly the same...

Otherwise, if you prefer non-ASUS, then stay away from the Core edition by XFX. That one has the least warranty of all the cards you listed.

Of the 7770s you listed (you listed 3 7750s and 2 7770s), they MIGHT work in your computer, since the TDP is only about 20 watts higher on the 7770 compared to the 7750. But I don't recommend a 7770 for <300 W PSU. I'm almost certain you'll get away with a 7770 with your PSU, but you'll probably want to not load the PSU too close to its maximum when CPU+GPU are stressed, and you inadvertently plug in a USB hard drive or something. Plus, leaving the PSU not fully loaded should lower its temperatures and lengthen its life span.

At this point of time, I will NOT recommend a 6670. But if you HAVE to get a 6670 (although I'm not sure why), be absolutely sure to get one with GDDR5. The DDR3 version has less than half the memory bandwidth of the GDDR5 (full-fat) version.


Does the ASUS require a direct hookup to the PSU? or does it get its power from the motherboard?

And what kind of increase will a 7750 have versus the HD 3000
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a b ) Power supply
September 12, 2012 10:34:01 PM

Tennis97 said:
Does the ASUS require a direct hookup to the PSU? or does it get its power from the motherboard?

And what kind of increase will a 7750 have versus the HD 3000


The ASUS 7750 doesn't require a 6 pin PCI-E power connector. None of the currently on market 7750s require one. All the 7770s require one.

The performance over the HD 3000 is HUGE. At least several folds in performance. For reference, the HD3000 is about as fast as a HD5450 (nearly as fast), which by hierarchy:

HD3000 (intel)<HD5450<HD5550<HD5570<HD5670<HD6670<HD7750<HD7770

That's several tiers of cards in between.
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September 12, 2012 10:35:38 PM

Maxx_Power said:
The ASUS 7750 doesn't require a 6 pin PCI-E power connector. None of the currently on market 7750s require one. All the 7770s require one.

The performance over the HD 3000 is HUGE. At least several folds in performance. For reference, the HD3000 is about as fast as a HD5450 (nearly as fast), which by hierarchy:

HD3000 (intel)<HD5450<HD5550<HD5570<HD5670<HD6670<HD7750<HD7770

That's several tiers of cards in between.

So all of them get their power through the motherboard?

and i had guessed as much, but wasnt sure exactly how much it was by
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September 12, 2012 10:46:09 PM

Whoa, whoa, whoa. That psu may be rated at 280w, but how many amps(A) are on the +12v rail(if you don't know,
open the case and look at the label on the psu). The amperage on a power supplie's 12 volt rail is one of it's most
important specs nowadays since almost all components use it for power either directly or indirectly(the cpu and gpu
are by far the biggest culprits). If you overload your +12v rail, you risk your build going up in flames(not kidding).

I did a quick google search of your pc and the first thing that popped up was laptops. I limited the search to
desktops and got a few hits. Let me take a look at some results to try and figure out your options. Depending on
the form factor of your case, you may even require that a new gpu be low profile(half as wide as normal. Sit tight.
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a b U Graphics card
September 12, 2012 10:48:28 PM

Also, some power supplies cant even deliver 50-67% of their rated wattage without catching fire. Keep that in mind.

Edit: Are those power usage charts showing current pulled from the wall, or what the leads were delivering?
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September 12, 2012 10:59:22 PM

jtenorj said:
Whoa, whoa, whoa. That psu may be rated at 280w, but how many amps(A) are on the +12v rail(if you don't know,
open the case and look at the label on the psu). The amperage on a power supplie's 12 volt rail is one of it's most
important specs nowadays since almost all components use it for power either directly or indirectly(the cpu and gpu
are by far the biggest culprits). If you overload your +12v rail, you risk your build going up in flames(not kidding).

I did a quick google search of your pc and the first thing that popped up was laptops. I limited the search to
desktops and got a few hits. Let me take a look at some results to try and figure out your options. Depending on
the form factor of your case, you may even require that a new gpu be low profile(half as wide as normal. Sit tight.



the size is plenty large enough, i made sure of that. As for Ampreage, i believe its either 16 or 18 amps
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a b U Graphics card
September 12, 2012 11:11:11 PM

Sorry. didn't mean to freak you out. just got to think not only of your pc, but your house/apartment and neighbor-
hood/apartment building as well. 16-18A is 192-216w. is your cpu a sandy i5 at 95w or an ivy i5 with 77w?
hd7750 is 55w(unless you overclock), but none of them should get close to the maximum tdp, even if you ran
prime 95 and furmark at the same time. i had to get a quick bite and am headed to church shortly, but wont be
gone long and this is the first thing I'll check when I get back. Just don't rush into a buying decision without all
the available info you can get(maybe you and/or some other posters will beat me to it).
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a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 12, 2012 11:12:07 PM

jtenorj said:
Also, some power supplies cant even deliver 50-67% of their rated wattage without catching fire. Keep that in mind.

Edit: Are those power usage charts showing current pulled from the wall, or what the leads were delivering?


The Lenovo the OP has is a brand name box, and the PSU will deliver that wattage. I have never seen a brand name box where the brand decided to allow mis-labelling to occur on their components. This isn't like Diablotek. Lenovo as well as Dell, HP, so on, will never be caught dead installing crap PSUs that deliver half rated power. Lenovo PSUs are usually made by Delta or LiteON as well, which makes them fairly good PSUs.

The power usage charts are at the WALL, so actual power pulled from PSU is even less (typically 80% of WALL, for 80% efficient PSUs).

I'm currently powering a HD4670 on a 250 watt PSU with a C2D system that pulls maximally about 150 watts from the wall as measured with maximal OCCT load.
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a b U Graphics card
September 12, 2012 11:14:48 PM

That is a sigh of relief.
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September 13, 2012 11:20:27 AM

Is the XFX double D a good card?
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a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 13, 2012 1:58:16 PM

Tennis97 said:
Is the XFX double D a good card?


It is the same as all the other generic 7750+brand name heatsink combinations. The MAIN selling point of MOST XFX cards is the lifetime warranty. You pay about 10% more upfront, for a life time of coverage. They reduced the terms somewhat lately, so you don't get it on all XFX cards, and when you do, it is nolonger transferrable to a 2nd owner.

So it depends if you want that lifetime warranty or not. If you do, then XFX.
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September 14, 2012 3:27:54 PM

How would it compare to a Gt 545 / GTX 550ti/555
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a b U Graphics card
September 14, 2012 6:43:01 PM

Hi there. me again. what is the model of your cpu? how many +12v rails on your psu? how many amps on those
rails? what is the combined max +12v output of your psu? It is best to have a single high amperage +12 rail vs
several lower amperage +12v rails that need to be properly balanced. hd7770 is 80w and needs a 6pin pcie lead.
hd6670 is 65w and gets all the power it needs from the mobo's peg slot. hd7750 is only 55w.

I would save some money and get the HIS 7750. The cooler looks kinda puny, but reviewers say it does a good job
of keeping the gpu cool while staying quiet, even when OCed.

I don't know about gtx555, but hd7750 should be between gt545 and gtx550ti as far as perfomance is concerned
(potentially faster than gtx550ti when OCed). It of course uses far less power and doesn't require a pcie 6pin lead.
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Best solution

a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 14, 2012 6:45:53 PM

Tennis97 said:
How would it compare to a Gt 545 / GTX 550ti/555


Only the 550 ti is available for purchase for end users. The 545 and 555 are OEM cards.

For a quick summary of performance, see this chart from Tom's newest review on the newly released GTX650 and 660:

Share
a b U Graphics card
September 14, 2012 7:11:13 PM

I just gotta say:

HA HA! The hd7750 costs less but performs better than the new gtx650. HA HA!
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September 14, 2012 7:46:05 PM

jtenorj said:
I just gotta say:

HA HA! The hd7750 costs less but performs better than the new gtx650. HA HA!


I know, and the GTX 650 has a PCi-E 6 pin power even though it doesn't need it... AND, the GTX 650 is really, really late to compete with the 7750, plus there are low profile 7750s with full performance out there. I don't even get the point of the GT640.
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September 14, 2012 10:33:10 PM

So the 7750 is the best choice. So, HIS or ASUS?
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a b U Graphics card
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September 14, 2012 10:46:43 PM

Tennis97 said:
So the 7750 is the best choice. So, HIS or ASUS?


I recommend ASUS. THe price seems right too.
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a b U Graphics card
September 14, 2012 10:49:11 PM

Some of the other cheaper cards have coolers that look like they trap the air in, like sapphire, asus, and xfx. That
HIS card looks like it gets the heat away from the gpu post haste. My 2 cents.
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September 15, 2012 1:04:35 AM

jtenorj said:
Some of the other cheaper cards have coolers that look like they trap the air in, like sapphire, asus, and xfx. That
HIS card looks like it gets the heat away from the gpu post haste. My 2 cents.


Both cards were reviewed at Techpowerup, and noise wise the HIS is 2db's quieter, but thermals wise, the ASUS is far ahead, see below:

ASUS:



HIS:



Since OP has a Lenovo K410 (which doesn't have a lot of fans), I would suspect that the ASUS should be better temperature wise in his computer.
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a b U Graphics card
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September 15, 2012 1:07:21 AM

jtenorj said:
Some of the other cheaper cards have coolers that look like they trap the air in, like sapphire, asus, and xfx. That
HIS card looks like it gets the heat away from the gpu post haste. My 2 cents.


Oh, and I thought I'd mention that ASUS is in the top tier (and gets first dibs on silicon) in terms of graphics and mobo. So their engineering is top notch. Intel even said so about ASUS's engineering capabilities in their recent interview here on Toms.
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September 15, 2012 1:12:02 AM

also, any ideas on sapphire cards? I will most likely go with the ASUS but always good to know the options
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September 15, 2012 11:42:05 AM

went with ASUS
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September 15, 2012 11:42:22 AM

Best answer selected by Tennis97.
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a b U Graphics card
September 15, 2012 12:47:26 PM

I wish I had thought to mention this earlier, and the topic will likely be closed by mousemonkey shortly, but the
fan speed profile of a card can be adjusted to a combo of noise the user can tolerate and best cooling performance.

If the HIS was a little quieter but not as good at cooling, a change in fan speed would likely serve to even things up.

It wasn't a huge difference(compared to say gtx480 and temps of 95c). Temps in the 60s and even 70s are fine
for a graphics card. A moderate oc on the HIS might not require any adjustment of fan profiles, leaving it quiet while
still keeping the gpu relatively cool.
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a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 15, 2012 1:44:27 PM

jtenorj said:
I wish I had thought to mention this earlier, and the topic will likely be closed by mousemonkey shortly, but the
fan speed profile of a card can be adjusted to a combo of noise the user can tolerate and best cooling performance.

If the HIS was a little quieter but not as good at cooling, a change in fan speed would likely serve to even things up.

It wasn't a huge difference(compared to say gtx480 and temps of 95c). Temps in the 60s and even 70s are fine
for a graphics card. A moderate oc on the HIS might not require any adjustment of fan profiles, leaving it quiet while
still keeping the gpu relatively cool.


Since catalyst (11 ish), the fan profile is uniformly adjusted by driver and not by BIOS or vendor programming anymore. You can count on the fact that a review of AMD cards at current drivers will have default fan profiles set identically. UNLESS the reviewer set the fan speed in catalyst over drive to a manual %. ALSO, not all custom cooling solutions support AMD's driver commands to change fan speeds to set custom speeds. The HIS 7750, for example has only a 2 PIN fan connector, which means it is extremely unlikely to support fan speed adjustments. The ASUS is a full 4 pin PWM with a dedicated sensing logic that can be controlled by the AMD drivers, and thus fully supports AMD's fan speed control commands. ASUS used to use these 2 pin, non-controllable heatsinks (nearly identical to the HIS) back in the HD4000 series, I have 2 of those, and they are NOT capable of fan speed adjustment because there is no onboard logic chip that controls/senses the fan speed (no additional fan speed wire, and no PWM control wire. You need at least the former for this to work). Since the HD5000 series, ASUS added 3/4 pin fan controls, and since HD6000 series, the shroud has been added.

Also the shrouds on these video cards do serve a crucial function. It prevents recirculation of warm air. Without the shroud, on the older type of heatsink designs like the HIS (which ASUS also used in the HD5000 and HD4000 series), the exhausted air circulates a short distance and is re-sucked into the fan in take side. The shroud enlarges this circulation distance and encourages mixing of exhaust air with the case flow. This works on the same principal (but opposite in application) as how adding a layer of transparent plastic to your windows in the winter can reduce heat losses. The plastic itself is very thin, so there is no thermal insulation, but due to the entrapment of air between the plastic and the window panes, the convection cell size has been reduced, so now thermal convections requires 2 cells to reach the window panes. On the shrouded video cards (if done properly), the idea is to enlarge the air flow path between the intake side and exhaust side to encourage mixing with case air flow, to lower temperatures. The non-shrouded cards do particularly poorly in enclosed environments like Shuttle XPCs, etc.
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a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 15, 2012 1:48:53 PM

jtenorj said:
I wish I had thought to mention this earlier, and the topic will likely be closed by mousemonkey shortly, but the
fan speed profile of a card can be adjusted to a combo of noise the user can tolerate and best cooling performance.

If the HIS was a little quieter but not as good at cooling, a change in fan speed would likely serve to even things up.

It wasn't a huge difference(compared to say gtx480 and temps of 95c). Temps in the 60s and even 70s are fine
for a graphics card. A moderate oc on the HIS might not require any adjustment of fan profiles, leaving it quiet while
still keeping the gpu relatively cool.


Unshrouded/open frame fans are typically quieter (see SPCR), but poorer in cooling performance per RPM due to lower flow volume/lower pressure.
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