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Nvidia physx

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September 21, 2012 5:00:35 PM

i currently use a saphire hd 7850 dual x and i5 3550 processor(intel hd 2500), using lucid vitu mvp. now does the nvidia cards have any added advantage over amd due to physx engine in non physx utilising games. for example take crysis 2, nvidea logo appears as game starts does that mean it is physx enabled. does integrated graphics (using lucid virtu mvp) handle physx. i kind of like nvidea but as the new series cards(pcie 3) release was delayed, took the 7850 a month ago.
thanks in advance for the reply

More about : nvidia physx

a c 595 U Graphics card
a c 388 Î Nvidia
September 21, 2012 5:34:58 PM

GPU accelerated PhysX is only going to work in specific games and will have no impact in non-PhysX games. You need an Nvidia card to do GPU-accelerated PhysX. Integrated graphics will not work. Do not plan on doing it with the CPU.

It's threads like these that point up the fact that anyone buying an AMD card needs to be very much aware that they should never plan on running any PhysX games with PhysX enabled.
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a b U Graphics card
September 21, 2012 5:40:30 PM

Ahh right, I thought you would be seeing your frames dip a little lower in action scenes.

40fps is pretty bad considering your set up....

Think it still pays to go with Nvidia for PhysX
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a c 191 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
September 21, 2012 7:07:45 PM

You could get a cheap Physx card. 8800GT or GTS250 would do. Maybe even a GTS450.
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a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
September 21, 2012 7:32:25 PM

BigMack70 said:
... except for the fact that I'm running high PhysX in Borderlands 2 and haven't seen my fps drop below 40 yet (just saw a drop to 40 for the first time... first few hours didn't see any below 45).

Batman:AC is about it for PhysX as far as being a reason to buy Nvidia. PhysX is all hype.



Look I am by no means an expert on this so please explain it to me or link something if I am wrong. But the very fact that you are not running a Nvidia GPU means you are not in fact playing the game using the full PhysX experience.

There are Video's on the net showing the difference between using Nvidia and not and the difference is huge.

So I don't see how you can be running the game with PhysX when you just don't have the hardware to do it properly. running with a version of PhysX yes but full Nvidia powered PhysX is a different experience to running it on ATI/AMD hardware and CPU.

Its kinda like the Vista ready thing. yes its running it but not properly.

Mactronix :) 
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a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
September 21, 2012 8:39:02 PM

Hmm, I have dug a little deeper and it seems that the coding is a lot better these days allowing the CPU which is also a lot more capable (generalising here) these days than it was when Batman first started stressing non Nvidia rigs.
Consoles have started using PhysX much more as well so I read, so I guess its a mix of more hardware horsepower and better coding that has us to the point where we actually do not need Nvidia to get playable frame rates in PhysX enabled titles.

I for one am glad you have taken the time and effort to draw this to peoples attention.

Mactronix :) 
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a c 291 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
September 21, 2012 10:11:38 PM

BigMack70 said:
... except for the fact that I'm running high PhysX in Borderlands 2 and haven't seen my fps drop below 40 yet (just saw a drop to 40 for the first time... first few hours didn't see any below 45).

Batman:AC is about it for PhysX as far as being a reason to buy Nvidia. PhysX is all hype.


Mind giving screenshot of PhysX of cloth or particles on your computer? I'm very curious to see it :) .
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
September 21, 2012 10:20:51 PM

Sunius said:
Mind giving screenshot of PhysX of cloth or particles on your computer? I'm very curious to see it :) .

How would you know that its his computer and not just some random piccy from the internerd? :whistle: 
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a c 291 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
September 21, 2012 10:32:06 PM

Thanks for saying that, somehow I missed the link. I am still wondering, maybe PhysX isn't Nvidia technology at all? I mean, they are advertising as if it works with Nvidia drivers/hardware only, but apparently that isn't the truth!
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
September 21, 2012 10:42:31 PM

Sunius said:
Thanks for saying that, somehow I missed the link. I am still wondering, maybe PhysX isn't Nvidia technology at all? I mean, they are advertising as if it works with Nvidia drivers/hardware only, but apparently that isn't the truth!

No, they bought it plain and simple.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
September 21, 2012 10:54:22 PM

BigMack70 said:
It's definitely Nvidia technology, but it runs off the CPU when there's no Nvidia GPU present - a fact that Nvidia doesn't tend to reveal in its marketing.

How well it runs off the CPU depends on how the developer implemented it. In Batman:AC, max PhysX will crush your framerate on a CPU - you just can't do it. However, in some other games - Borderlands 2 in this case - it runs on the CPU just fine.

The Nvidia marketing line which implies that you need an Nvidia GPU for these effects, and matto's repeated comments to the effect of "don't plan on running PhysX from the CPU" are highly misleading at best.

It's theirs because they paid for it but they did not develop it, I can't help but wonder whether you are aware of all the facts and thus just trolling or actually oblivious and therefore just going on the fanboi rant trip? :heink: 
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
September 21, 2012 11:17:03 PM

BigMack70 said:
Um... isn't that why I said it's definitely Nvidia tech :heink:  ???

That's why I wonder if you are even aware of the history behind PhysX?
BigMack70 said:
Matto has sent me into a bit of a rant about this though because I'm so tired of seeing him tout the company line on PhysX... though I'm not sure why my dislike of the GTX 6xx series repeatedly gets me called an AMD fanboy.

I'm sure I'll be back to getting called an Nvidia fanboy once I swap out my 7970s for an Nvidia setup. :pfff: 


And that remains to be seen.
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a c 595 U Graphics card
a c 388 Î Nvidia
September 21, 2012 11:24:54 PM

BigMack70 said:
Matto has sent me into a bit of a rant about this though because I'm so tired of seeing him tout the company line on PhysX... though I'm not sure why my dislike of the GTX 6xx series repeatedly gets me called an AMD fanboy.

I'm sure I'll be back to getting called an Nvidia fanboy once I swap out my 7970s for an Nvidia setup. :pfff: 

The fact that you're getting mid-40 FPS with Crossfired MSI 7970 Lightnings at 1205 mhz and an Ivy Bridge at 4.8 Ghz only confirms that most people better not plan on using their CPU to do PhysX. These experiences that have somehow validated your viewpoint are very exclusive to your setup and this one game. Your righteous anger is pretty misplaced and not helpful to those with more modest systems, like that of the OP anish449.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
September 21, 2012 11:28:51 PM

BigMack70 said:
I'm aware of enough to know that Ageia came up with it and Nvidia bought them after Ageia's PPU experiment kinda flopped, so it's definitely Nvidia's tech...

If you go out and buy a used car, that car isn't somehow less yours because someone used to own it before you... I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at.

I've already stated that, however I know that you are capable of setting a playing field and then moving the goalposts and as such I can't help but wonder why the sudden outburst against PhysX?
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a c 216 U Graphics card
a c 80 Î Nvidia
September 21, 2012 11:35:27 PM

BigMack70 said:
Maybe you should take another look at the techspot article... the GTX 680 experiences the same dips going from low-->high physX that the 7970 does going from none-->high

Does Nvidia give a better experience in Borderlands 2? Yes. But it's the same way that AMD gives you a better experience playing Alan Wake (or any other game that favors AMD's architecture).

It's a *performance* difference (and a mild one at that), not a *features* difference.


You do realize this is 1 game. One single game. I also realize that Metro 2033 is similar in that regard, but there are quite a few other PhysX games which are not playable on the CPU.

Ones I can confirm are Batman AC, and Batman AA, Sacred 2, and Dark Void. Mafia 2 will also run into troubles from what I've seen on benchmarks.

Is PhysX required for a good experience, nope. But many games with GPU accelerated PhysX do need an Nvidia card to perform well with it enabled or at higher PhysX settings.
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a c 216 U Graphics card
a c 80 Î Nvidia
September 21, 2012 11:48:56 PM

I never really saw a lot of hoopla about Borderlands 2 and PhysX. I saw Matto bring it up, but never an article about it. Batman AA was really the only game I ever saw a lot of hype about PhysX.

I also don't view PhysX as a big +, but I do concede that it should be taken into account when purchasing a new card, and you play some games with it.

I personally try to keep perspective about all this and a more balanced view.
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a b U Graphics card
September 21, 2012 11:54:37 PM

Dude, you're running a $1000 graphics setup and are only getting 40fps. What are you even talking about? It has been shown that a $230 GTX 660 can run Borderlands 2 with PhysX. The question is, do you think a $210 HD 7850 can run it? Probably not.
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a c 216 U Graphics card
a c 80 Î Nvidia
September 21, 2012 11:56:47 PM

Ironslice said:
Dude, you're running a $1000 graphics setup and are only getting 40fps. What are you even talking about? It has been shown that a $230 GTX 660 can run Borderlands 2 with PhysX. The question is, do you think a $210 HD 7850 can run it? Probably not.


The GPU has very little to do with the ability of an AMD system running PhysX, as it will run on the CPU in an AMD system. My biggest concern would be if it would perform well in a Multiplayer environment where CPU demands are generally higher. (I have not played Borderlands to even know if it has a multiplayer and if it's CPU demanding like most).
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
September 22, 2012 12:00:28 AM

BigMack70 said:
It's 1 game, but it's a game that has marketed PhysX as highly as any I've seen before and that has been brought up in a lot of recent threads about why people should be buying Nvidia's cards. I fired it up expecting to have my framerate chug into the toilet with PhysX - just like Batman:AC.

I've seen so many people (not just Matto) using PhysX in advice/debates as if it's a trump card that pretty much always means buy Nvidia, and so many new people confused as if they need an Nvidia card to run PhysX at all, that I'm on a little bit of a hobby-horse rant here.

People need to realize that PhysX is nothing more than a part of the "figure out which games you play and which card performs best in them" puzzle. It's not really this awesome feature that AMD cards don't get... it's just something that ensures Nvidia gets a performance win in a couple of titles.

@Mouse - glad to see you're back to your distrusting ways of me. When you agreed with me back there, I thought your account may have been hacked or something. :lol: 

The history of Physx is a long and troubled one which I have followed for some time, have you?
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a c 144 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
September 22, 2012 12:21:38 AM

honestly i agree nvidia make alot of marketing with PhysX to the point where people assume all TWIMTBP title are using PhysX as their physics engine. but i don't agree about physx being 100% gimmick. maybe you can say so on gpu accelerated physx but i don't think you can say so if you look at the engine as a whole. for quite sometime physx has become an alternative to havok (the same can be said to bullet).

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a b U Graphics card
September 22, 2012 12:25:07 AM

Does Havok not implement Physx in the engine?

Edit: Never mind I thought they were associated in the past, shows how much i know :lol: 
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a c 216 U Graphics card
a c 80 Î Nvidia
September 22, 2012 12:28:00 AM

paddys09 said:
Does Havok not implement Physx in the engine?


That makes no sense. PhysX is an engine that performs physics and graphical effects. Havok is another such engine. It does what PhysX does, so no, it would not use it.
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September 22, 2012 1:04:02 AM

currently you need to

We were able to enable PhysX on all graphics cards by editing the WillowEngine.ini and setting the PhysX level to 2. As far as we could tell the Radeon HD 7970 and GeForce GTX 680 look the same with PhysX set to high but admittedly we have not played a great deal of the game and ave only use a few guns. However the cloth effects and rock debris effects from shooting stuff with the Gearbox Rifle look the same.

by reading the article you see that they modified the ini file to accommodate the ATI cards. We don't know what kind of damage that does to the actual rendering of the physx
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September 22, 2012 1:09:13 AM

Nvidia Physx is a physics library that you can license for your 3d game. It, like competing physics engines, runs the physics code on the cpu. There are certain objects you can add physics to (like fine particles and smoke) that are typically static. Adding physics to these small objects or having dynamic fluids is extremely resource heavy, so if there is an Nvidia gpu present the physics calculations for those objects are processed on the gpu. Gpus are good at processing physics because of how much floating point calculating power they have. Now if there isn't an Nvidia gpu present in the system, the gpu accelerated physics code is calculated on the cpu right along with the non gpu accelerated physics code.

I hope this post clears up all the questions about how Nvidia Physx works.
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September 22, 2012 1:23:24 AM

the benchmarks that the others posted were from a modified ini file so that radeons could process the physx. If you don't have a nvidia card you get CPU rendered physx, if you modify the ini file you get a modified gpu output of what physx represents, I'm not arguing that you CAN run physics on a Radeon, I'm just wanting to tell people that techspots physx test isn't a real representation. Its a modified comparison.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
September 22, 2012 9:03:38 AM

Random videos on the internet do not prove anything as far as I'm concerned, the only way to tell if there really is a difference would be by running the game with a card from each company yourself, how you then convince others that your results are honest and above board however, is another matter entirely.
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September 22, 2012 9:25:27 AM

BigMack70 said:
Yeah... I'm playing with the full PhysX experience... and I'm playing the game just fine.

Don't believe me? How bout this:
http://www.techspot.com/review/577-borderlands-2-perfor...

http://static.techspot.com/articles-info/577/bench/PhysX.png

The BL2 videos around the net don't show Nvidia vs AMD, they show PhysX maxed vs no PhysX. They wrongly *imply* Nvidia vs. not, and that's why I call PhysX a bunch of marketing BS.


the benchmark was done on the cpu Core i7-3960X, which is one of the very high end cpu. as far as a modest processor such as i5 3550 running at stock speeds, what do u think, i think a high end cpu or a low to mid end nvidia gpu handles physx fine. at the benchmark i think the processor is more than enough to run game at max physx, making the gpu phyx rendering effect minimal, hence getting same fps on gpu with same processing power irrespective of nvidea or amd
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September 22, 2012 9:29:32 AM

so i guess lucid virtu mvp or the integrated graphics has no role to play in phyx rendering. am i right
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September 22, 2012 9:31:17 AM

also in a non physx title does nvidea card give same image(debris and cloth effect) as an amd card.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
September 22, 2012 9:35:12 AM

anish449 said:
so i guess lucid virtu mvp or the integrated graphics has no role to play in phyx rendering. am i right

Yes.
anish449 said:
also in a non physx title does nvidea card give same image(debris and cloth effect) as an amd card.

It should do.
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