Dark Ages Mage working together

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So this one kinda surprised me. Now on the second saga of my Viking Age Mage
game the players suddenly said: "Hey, can I help him in this ritual?" "Sure,
I said, you can normally help each other in Mage, let me just check if the
rules are different in the Dark Ages." Um, so, where are the rules for
co-operation? Maybe in the rush to not hold up the game for too long I
missed it somewhere but try as I might I could not find the rules for
co-operating on casting rituals. Not in the DA:M book nor in my recently
purchased Grimoire. Am I missing something? Or does someone know (perhaps
from other sources) how its supposed to work. I made a temporary ruling that
everyone was happy enough with, but it would be nice to know if there's any
proper ruling. Was it accidentally missed out or can mages (even of the same
Fellowship) simply not work together? That seems kind of nuts, IMHO.

Cheers all,

Nimrod....
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Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Nimrod Jones wrote:
> So this one kinda surprised me. Now on the second saga of my Viking Age Mage
> game the players suddenly said: "Hey, can I help him in this ritual?" "Sure,
> I said, you can normally help each other in Mage, let me just check if the
> rules are different in the Dark Ages." Um, so, where are the rules for
> co-operation? Maybe in the rush to not hold up the game for too long I
> missed it somewhere but try as I might I could not find the rules for
> co-operating on casting rituals. Not in the DA:M book nor in my recently
> purchased Grimoire. Am I missing something? Or does someone know (perhaps
> from other sources) how its supposed to work. I made a temporary ruling that
> everyone was happy enough with, but it would be nice to know if there's any
> proper ruling. Was it accidentally missed out or can mages (even of the same
> Fellowship) simply not work together? That seems kind of nuts, IMHO.

I use the simple rules for Teamwork, found in DA:V on page 118 and in
the free DA: Basic Rules on page 12. Just add successes, if one
contributor botches, it's a botch. Works for everything from lifting
rocks to working magic.

HTH,
Daniel


--

my homepage : http://hd42.de

'Life is wasted on the living' - Zaphod Beeblebrox the Fourth

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

nagash@hd42.de postulated:

:: I use the simple rules for Teamwork, found in DA:V on page 118 and in
:: the free DA: Basic Rules on page 12. Just add successes, if one
:: contributor botches, it's a botch. Works for everything from lifting
:: rocks to working magic.

The reason I question whether its that simple is because magic in DA is
pretty powerful with just one person working it... with 2 people its gonna
be really, really stupidly powerful (especially since I'm running a very
cinematic game in which you *always* re-roll 10s). Now, I understand that
with people working together it *should* be a little more powerful than what
you can achieve with just one person but still...

I mean, lets take my instance in a little more detail:

The Valdaerman are torn between making the 5 day journey to a battlefield
where King Erick Bloodaxe has fought a battle in which the brother of Skaldi
Firebrand was slain or going directly home just in time for the wedding of
Thun's apprentice Hilario to a rich merchant's daughter. Once at the
battlefield, the journey back will be around 6 days which will make them 5
days late for the wedding feast (and ceremony). So, Olaf the Unwashed
(master of Fara) decides that he might be able to prepare a spell once they
are at the battle field to compress the return journey into a single day,
allowing them to return in time. On the 5th day, after inspecting the
battlefield, Olaf begins his ritual upon the horses who will carry them.
Thun has no knowledge of Fara so cannot assist, however, Grim has some small
knowledge of Fara. The spell Olaf is performing requires Fara 4 and Grim
only has Fara 2. His small understanding (by Mage: The Ascension rules)
means he should be able to assist (and since he's of the same Fellowship
there's no paradigm problems, as it were).

However, based on the rules as they stand, how can Grim make a normal roll
since he doesn't alone have Fara at the level of the spell - so would I
calculate the difficulties normally? Would his assistance simply mean more
successes or actually help in some other way?

Sorcerer Revised has a somewhat nicer means of doing teamwork, where there
is a primary caster and those assisting help lower the difficulty of the
roll. Could this be ported over somehow? It's similar to my temporary
solution which was to just let his assistance lower the difficulty by 1 -
but I didn't bother with a roll. In Sorcerer Rev its every success on the
roll of the assistants lowers the difficulty (to a minimum of 3) this seems
just a bit too powerful for DA:M since, frankly, its very rare that
difficulties really get so high (at the moment) and still they accumulate
enough successes (when not hurries) for some really monumental effects.

Nimrod...

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Nimrod Jones" <Nimrod_V01D@doleos.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<2u7vjlF27houeU1@uni-berlin.de>...
> nagash@hd42.de postulated:
>
> :: I use the simple rules for Teamwork, found in DA:V on page 118 and in
> :: the free DA: Basic Rules on page 12. Just add successes, if one
> :: contributor botches, it's a botch. Works for everything from lifting
> :: rocks to working magic.
>
> The reason I question whether its that simple is because magic in DA is
> pretty powerful with just one person working it... with 2 people its gonna
> be really, really stupidly powerful (especially since I'm running a very
> cinematic game in which you *always* re-roll 10s). Now, I understand that
> with people working together it *should* be a little more powerful than what
> you can achieve with just one person but still...
>
Yeah, but...it's the *Mythic Ages*! You're SUPPOSED to be shaking the
pillars of Heaven! Those horses should grow sprout four extra legs,
becoming the very image of Sleipner, the steed of Odin!! <shakes
Gungnir>

Seriously, I'd suggest either pooling successes or lowering
difficulty; the former if the Effect directly affects the casters, the
latter if it targets surroundings/conditions/etc. If both are
involved, the PCs can decide how to allocate their successes (rather
like Mega-Attributes in Abberant).

BTW, have you gotten DA: Fae? Any thought to having the Fae show up in
your chronicle?

Dex,
who wouldn't want someone with the epithet "the Unwashed" at his
wedding, anyway...^^

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

As I'm running a mixed-fellowship chronicle, that issue didn't come up
much for me... I don't think the help of someone with not enough skill
should have too great an effect, so I wouldn't let him lower difficulty.
Maybe let him make the normal roll, adding his successes to the dice
pool of the original caster.

Another problem I encountered was that none of my players bother to cast
ongoing spells, because if you're not in a hurry, but just extend your
spell to a simple ritual, you can easily gather as many successes as you
wish to make any effect super powerfull and lasting for at least half a
year. How do you deal with this?

Daniel

--

my homepage : http://hd42.de

'Life is wasted on the living' - Zaphod Beeblebrox the Fourth

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

smilinglord@hotmail.com postulated:

:: Seriously, I'd suggest either pooling successes or lowering
:: difficulty; the former if the Effect directly affects the casters,
:: the latter if it targets surroundings/conditions/etc. If both are
:: involved, the PCs can decide how to allocate their successes (rather
:: like Mega-Attributes in Abberant).

Not overly familiar with Abberant unfortunately. Well, my quick decision was
for his presence to just act like a permanent point of Quint in lowering the
difficulty for the rolls, but didn't really know if this was the best way of
doing it.

:: BTW, have you gotten DA: Fae? Any thought to having the Fae show up
:: in your chronicle?

No, I don't but I doubt I'd use the rules if I chose to have them show up.
In the first saga (which you can read all but the last session which I still
need to finish writing up if you Google for it) they already fought
Norse-style trolls, one of the PCs rescued and married a finwife from the
finmen (taken from the mythology of the Orkneys)... They fought werewolves
more akin to the kind appearing in the Volsung Saga for which I bent the
rules again. I had the explanation as this: There are three ways to become a
werewolf, 1) you are bitten by one - but this is rare; 2) you are cursed or
have the blood of Loki in you and spontaneously shed your human skin
revealing the wolfskin underneath, this you will later shed and you live as
the next kind, 3) you have a skin of a wolf which when you wear it you
become a wolf. To those untrained or cursed you spend one moon as a wolf and
only on the same moon under which you donned it, will it shed from you and
you can live as a man again. Those more experienced or just gifted with
violence or favoured by Loki may control their form and control when they
wear the skin.

This was nice because it a) confused the players a little from what they
know of werewolves while fighting the grandchildren of Loki, spawn of
Fenris-Wolf gave the in-game nod to the Get of Fenris or Fenrir if they're
still called that in the new DA: Werewolf.

I treat and will continue to treat any other supernaturals to the same. They
must conform not to what the DA book says but to what's in the sagas. After
all, this is a Viking Age Mage game I'm running.

:: who wouldn't want someone with the epithet "the Unwashed" at his
:: wedding, anyway...^^

It gets better... Olaf is technically the mentor to the Regent of Westfold
who was his apprentice.

Nimrod...
--
....who must finish writing the last session of the first saga so he can find
time to get on with writing the new saga.

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

nagash@hd42.de postulated:

:: Another problem I encountered was that none of my players bother to
:: cast ongoing spells, because if you're not in a hurry, but just
:: extend your spell to a simple ritual, you can easily gather as many
:: successes as you wish to make any effect super powerfull and lasting
:: for at least half a year. How do you deal with this?

Use my noggin. Despite the suggested durations and so forth, sometimes I
have to put my foot down and say "That's silly for what you're doing" or
something like that. One thing I have to start getting a little more strict
on (because it keeps sneaking past me) is one of my players has a habit of
doing Strength and Stamina boosting with Hjaldar. He always does this in
preparation so it lasts (technically) for days at a time. Come a new story I
really ought to say "No carry overs from spells that are not Ongoing Spells,
even if the new story is starting only on the next day" but he keeps
sneaking it past me.

However, the same player is the only one to have actually created on Ongoing
Spell in the shape of a sword he forged in 3 weeks of downtime. Ongoing
Spells, I think somewhat misleadingly, are really there for creating magic
items. Now, yes, technically you can put a spell on a sword in an unhurried
extended ritual garnering at least 6 suxx. However, IMO, this should not
allow them to bypass doing Ongoing Spells. If someone wants to make a spear
stronger without an Ongoing Spell, fine, but it will probably get destroyed
during (or if you're kind then after) the fight because its overloaded and
strained with the magical energy.

For example, what Olaf achieved with the horses worked fine. In a day of
travelling they covered 6 days worth of distance. Now, (if he had Hjaldar)
he could have (at some earlier time) forged Sleipnir's Shoes (as in the
book) to creat ethe same effect, but he didn't. He just got 10 successes on
an extended roll. Therefore, they got home, it did its job, the ride was
somewhat Event Horizony in a kind of Norse way and when they reached within
walking distance of their destination their horses collapsed and died from
the strain. Simple. You don't reinforce or protect the spell expect
repercussions.

That's really the key IMHO: repercussions. Sure, they didn't botch. It ain't
a backlash. It's a repercussion.

Thun's sword is not subject to that. He took 3 weeks and did all the
business with the Quint to make a magical sword. He now has a magic sword.

Another thing worth doing is look at their intent. If you think they're
trying to bypass the expensive Quint and WP cost of making an Ongoing Spell
then just say: "What you're proposing really should be an Ongoing Spell and
that's going to involve a lot more work. You can cast it now if you wish,
but it won't be as stable or really last as long as if you do it properly."

That's the best advise I can come up with for now. Might think of more stuff
in conversation.

Nimrod...
--
....who was evil enough to have a surprise bunch of Valdaermen challenge for
the right to a cray when it was a) almost empty and b) the PCs had nearly no
Quint while only one PC was at the cray and the others were passed out at
the wedding feast after a drinking contest. Unfortunately, it was lost due
to a bad die roll (shame really), but it will be interesting to see how they
seek to reclaim their cray from a family of beserker mages.