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Need an urgent answer for an upgrade to 580 gtx

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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September 24, 2012 3:49:20 PM

Hey guys,
I would like to ask you a question and need a quick reply if possible. I am getting a decent deal in which i can sell my ati 6870 and buy a 580 gtx for some extra cash. I have a q9550 at 3.2 ghz with 5gb ddr 2 ram with an old power supply coolermaster extreme power duo 600 watt. I read somewhere it has 70-75 % efficiency, cant find the source now(its an old power supply not many reviews left). I know my q9550 will be a bottleneck for that card but I want to buy it so that i can play some older and newer titles with physx and highest possible settings and a frame rate of 40-45 is perfectly acceptable for me in single player games.(i play multiplayer shooters with extremely low settings, so graphics card is not intended to boost their performance). The main problem is the psu which is really old and only has 2 6 pin connectors. Do i need to buy a converter of some sort to accomodate the 580 gtx which has one 6+2 power connector or it will fit into the connector i already have. Also, i read somewhere that the psu i have is quite bad and not that great but it has served me wonderfully in the last 5 years without any issue. In the review that has been done in the link below
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/11/09/nv...

It shows that the maximum system power with 580 gtx is only 363 watt which is less than my psu ie. 70 % efficiency of 600 watt=400 watt.

Please, please , please tell me quickly that if my psu will be able to handle my setup with 580 gtx and also enlighten me on the power connectors and how they will work in this particular setup. Waiting eagerly for ur response.

a c 102 U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 24, 2012 3:54:20 PM

I would say go for it you will be fine....you have the efficiency thing wrong...if the psu is 75% efficient and its a 600watt unit it should still put out 600watts in the end but it takes 800watts to get there....also you cant just take into account how much the gpu consumes you have the rest of your system to power too.....that being said still go for it providing that you dont pay too much extra for the 580....as far as the 8pin pcie issue just get a 6 pin to 8 pin converter....you will be fine.
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a c 539 U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 24, 2012 3:59:12 PM

You will be fine with that power supply. The GTX 580 will run anything you want at full settings.
September 24, 2012 4:04:19 PM

drums101 said:
I would say go for it you will be fine....you have the efficiency thing wrong...if the psu is 75% efficient and its a 600watt unit it should still put out 600watts in the end but it takes 800watts to get there....also you cant just take into account how much the gpu consumes you have the rest of your system to power too.....that being said still go for it providing that you dont pay too much extra for the 580....as far as the 8pin pcie issue just get a 6 pin to 8 pin converter....you will be fine.


Thanx for an extremely quick, knowledgeable and most of all encouraging reply. It was the sort of reply I was waiting for with my fingers crossed. My concepts of efficiency of PSU were simply tragic, thanks for correcting me.
By the way the review that I saw and shared the link of, isn't that for the whole system. I dont understand when u say and i quote "also you cant just take into account how much the gpu consumes you have the rest of your system to power too".
The power consumption chart in the link shows the complete system power usage of the entire system and that system is much more power hungry than mine. So, if 363 watt is all that takes on that awesome system, then I believe that it should take less power on mine. Am I right?
a c 102 U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 24, 2012 4:08:04 PM

yea you are right that was the amount for the whole system my apologies...I didnt read very closely and realize that is high for a 580.
September 24, 2012 4:10:03 PM

paddys09 said:
Gtx 580's aren't very good value at the moment, I would suggest looking at a 660ti or some of the 7xxx AMD cards.... They also use less power too...

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/517?vs=647


If I am getting 580 gtx used for one year at 80 % the price of 660 gtx ti, is it still a bad deal. Any link to prove that.
a b U Graphics card
September 24, 2012 4:14:36 PM

Ahh right though you were buying new, No if your getting it 2nd hand rock on... its a great GPU :) 
a c 236 U Graphics card
a c 126 ) Power supply
September 24, 2012 4:16:50 PM

I would be cautious. If a 600w psu has only two 6 pin connectors, it is because it does not have the ability to drive a 8 pin connector like the GTX580 needs. Yes, you can use a molex to 8 pin adapter, and it may work, but I think I would do something different. Your psu does not deliver the 42a that a GTX580 wants. It can deliver, at most 36a, and probably less than that.
I suppose you can try it, I see no harm in doing so, but be prepared to change out the psu.

If you need a psu upgrade, A Corsair CX600 will deliver 46a, and cost $60 after a $10 rebate:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Or, you can consider a modern 28nm card(GTX6xx or amd 7xxx) will be more power efficient, and will likely run well.
a c 539 U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 24, 2012 4:22:46 PM

Yeah, upon further review, you might be pushing it with the amps on that power supply, 36 amps combined.

a c 236 U Graphics card
a c 126 ) Power supply
September 24, 2012 4:22:53 PM

vintech82 said:
If I am getting 580 gtx used for one year at 80 % the price of 660 gtx ti, is it still a bad deal. Any link to prove that.


It is not a bad deal on the surface. The GTX660ti is a stronger card, but not by much.
But when you consider the possibility that you may need to replace the psu, then it is not such a good deal.
In addition, the GTX580 will run hotter and be noisier.
And, there is some value in a new vs. used card.

Here is one article with benchmarks that include both the gtx660ti and the GTX580:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-660-ti-...

--------------bottom line-----------------
Consider spending a bit more for the GTX660ti.
September 24, 2012 4:30:33 PM

geofelt said:
I would be cautious. If a 600w psu has only two 6 pin connectors, it is because it does not have the ability to drive a 8 pin connector like the GTX580 needs. Yes, you can use a molex to 8 pin adapter, and it may work, but I think I would do something different. Your psu does not deliver the 42a that a GTX580 wants. It can deliver, at most 36a, and probably less than that.
I suppose you can try it, I see no harm in doing so, but be prepared to change out the psu.

If you need a psu upgrade, A Corsair CX600 will deliver 46a, and cost $50 after a $10 rebate:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Or, you can consider a modern 28nm card(GTX6xx or amd 7xxx) will be more power efficient, and will likely run well.


I believe when my psu was made, graphics card that could use 8 pin connectors were unheard of, I bought it in 2007.

When you say there is no harm in trying it, are you sure it will not damage any part of system, if it is not appropriate for it. I am extremely paranoid about damaging my system as i don't have enough money to buy newer parts after this purchase. Processor, ram, mobo and psu are all out of warranty. I know one can't be 100% sure about anything with computers and upgrades and how they will turn out but what are the odds that it may damage my system. I will believe you as it clearly says that you are an expert.
a b U Graphics card
September 24, 2012 4:32:29 PM

I wouldn't risk the gtx 580 on that PSU.. the older coolermaster ones were not known to be that good anyway quality wise and when you factor in things like degradation etc its probably due a replacement
September 24, 2012 4:41:01 PM

geofelt said:
It is not a bad deal on the surface. The GTX660ti is a stronger card, but not by much.
But when you consider the possibility that you may need to replace the psu, then it is not such a good deal.
In addition, the GTX580 will run hotter and be noisier.
And, there is some value in a new vs. used card.

Here is one article with benchmarks that include both the gtx660ti and the GTX580:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-660-ti-...

--------------bottom line-----------------
Consider spending a bit more for the GTX660ti.


I wasn't aware that 660 ti was stronger. If I was I would have never considered 580 gtx as 660 ti uses less power. I read so much about 580 gtx and never thought that there was a chance in hell that it will lose to a 660 ti. Please consider the fact that I will be using the highest possible settings with high graphics mods and insane amount of AA. Won't the memory bus be a problem with higher AA.
a c 236 U Graphics card
a c 126 ) Power supply
September 24, 2012 5:06:22 PM

vintech82 said:
I wasn't aware that 660 ti was stronger. If I was I would have never considered 580 gtx as 660 ti uses less power. I read so much about 580 gtx and never thought that there was a chance in hell that it will lose to a 660 ti. Please consider the fact that I will be using the highest possible settings with high graphics mods and insane amount of AA. Won't the memory bus be a problem with higher AA.


Ignore such specifications such as bus speed, ram specs, vram, etc. The engineers know how those things interact, and pick a balanced set to meet their price and performance objectives. What counts is how it performa in YOUR games.
In the new card marketplace, you mostly get what you pay for. It is a bit more iffy in the used arena.

Since your PSU has performed well, so far, I would not expect it to fail. If it does not have sufficient power, I would expect to see your graphics card fail, or perform poorly, or exhibit artifacts.

If you get the GTX580, which is a good card, plan on replacing the psu also.
Above all, look for a quality psu with at least a 6 and 6+2 pin lead set, and 42a on the combined +12v rails.
It is not wrong to go a bit higher. A psu will consume only the wattage that is demanded of it, regardless of it's maximum rating.
If a psu operates in the middle third of it's range, it will be more efficient and quieter.
My short list of quality psu's would include Seasonic, PC P&C,XFX,Antec, and Coresair.
Here is a link t psu quality tiers:
http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/323050.aspx

And, I don't see that much value in high levels of AA which seem to be a particularly high burden on graphics cards, at least until other eye candy has been maxed out.
September 24, 2012 5:19:05 PM

geofelt said:
Ignore such specifications such as bus speed, ram specs, vram, etc. The engineers know how those things interact, and pick a balanced set to meet their price and performance objectives. What counts is how it performa in YOUR games.
In the new card marketplace, you mostly get what you pay for. It is a bit more iffy in the used arena.

Since your PSU has performed well, so far, I would not expect it to fail. If it does not have sufficient power, I would expect to see your graphics card fail, or perform poorly, or exhibit artifacts.

If you get the GTX580, which is a good card, plan on replacing the psu also.
Above all, look for a quality psu with at least a 6 and 6+2 pin lead set, and 42a on the combined +12v rails.
It is not wrong to go a bit higher. A psu will consume only the wattage that is demanded of it, regardless of it's maximum rating.
If a psu operates in the middle third of it's range, it will be more efficient and quieter.
My short list of quality psu's would include Seasonic, PC P&C,XFX,Antec, and Coresair.
Here is a link t psu quality tiers:
http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/323050.aspx

And, I don't see that much value in high levels of AA which seem to be a particularly high burden on graphics cards, at least until other eye candy has been maxed out.



So. will u say 660 ti with my psu will be a lesser risk than 580 gtx. Or the risk will be the same. It's alright for me to see my psu refusing to work with the new card and not power it up. But I want someway to ensure that my other parts dont get fried.
a c 236 U Graphics card
a c 126 ) Power supply
September 24, 2012 6:30:06 PM

vintech82 said:
So. will u say 660 ti with my psu will be a lesser risk than 580 gtx. Or the risk will be the same. It's alright for me to see my psu refusing to work with the new card and not power it up. But I want someway to ensure that my other parts dont get fried.


Really good question.

I assess the risk as similar.

No question that the GTX660ti is a better card, cooler, quieter, and less power hungry to boot.
Because you have had no issues with your psu, I would expect no problem with a GTX660ti, and would go that route.
I have no doubt that the GTX660ti would work with your current psu.

If you go the gtx580/new psu route, you will not have a problem either, and will end up with a better quality psu, but a graphics card that is several generations old.

The most risky choice is to try to run the GTX580 with your current psu. Under severe stress, it is unknowable how the psu will act, either good or bad.
September 24, 2012 7:33:48 PM

If money is an issue, I can attest to my GTX 560Ti running all the games I've been playing on higher end settings (if not the highest for some games) if that is cheaper. Running it very comfortablely on a 600w PSU.
a c 236 U Graphics card
a c 126 ) Power supply
September 24, 2012 7:50:46 PM

kleintrpt said:
If money is an issue, I can attest to my GTX 560Ti running all the games I've been playing on higher end settings (if not the highest for some games) if that is cheaper. Running it very comfortablely on a 600w PSU.


At issue here is the quality and capability of the OP's psu.
Even at 600w, it delivers a max of 36a, and probably not even that, since one can't simply use the sum of the two +12v rails.
Your pc P&C silencer 600, on the other hand is a fine quality unit that can deliver 46a, and has two 6+2 connectors.
September 24, 2012 7:55:21 PM

Vintech u can easily go with the GTX 660 (non-ti). It is said to be as well as the 580. Plus much more power efficient but u prolly cant get a deal for it with a trade using your 6870.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Also kleintrpt's PSU is a great 600w one, dont use his experience as a reference since yours Vintech isnt of the same caliber.
a b U Graphics card
September 24, 2012 7:56:52 PM

Also all the 560ti is a great card, but due to all the newer releases it really isnt the best value option out there at the moment. None of the mid-high end 5xx are....
September 25, 2012 8:18:19 AM

geofelt said:
At issue here is the quality and capability of the OP's psu.
Even at 600w, it delivers a max of 36a, and probably not even that, since one can't simply use the sum of the two +12v rails.
Your pc P&C silencer 600, on the other hand is a fine quality unit that can deliver 46a, and has two 6+2 connectors.


So, just give me the final advice before I get more confused and bang my head against the wall. Shall I go for :

1)Selling 6870 and buying 580 Gtx+ a newer power supply two options for me a) Corsair Power 650TX b)coolermaster Extreme II 725W RS725-PCARD3-UK (these are the psus available in my area and in my price range, so please tell me which gets the job done )

2)Selling 6870 and buying 660ti using my same old power supply.

Both the options cost me the exact same amount where I live. Somehow, secretly I want to own 580 gtx because I have deep lying feeling inside, telling me that the reviews are not taking into account the fact that I will be choking up the graphics settings in which the memory bandwidth will be utilized to the max. But if according to the experts here the second deal is clearly better than the first, I will choose the second option.
September 25, 2012 9:19:04 AM

Also I would like to confirm that a 660ti draws 36 ampere of current, the same as my 6870, which theoretically makes it the best fit for my old power supply
a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 25, 2012 10:11:00 AM

Power supply wise my only concern is the best rule of thumb is the load capability and the fact the power supply comes with all the needed connectors without using any adapters.

It's time to replace a 2007 power supply in 2012 any way you look at it!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139021

The 580GTX is still a very good performing graphics card.
a c 271 U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 25, 2012 4:11:54 PM

vintech82 said:
Also I would like to confirm that a 660ti draws 36 ampere of current, the same as my 6870, which theoretically makes it the best fit for my old power supply

According to the specs on the Nvidia website the 660Ti is a 150w card so it would only draw 12.5 amps.
September 26, 2012 6:14:43 AM

I somehow have managed enough cash and I am going all out for a 670 gtx with the same psu. After all this discussion, I believe that yes there is a very small chance that it may not work with my gpu but the chance of its frying the components is extremely low. Any opinions?
a b U Graphics card
September 26, 2012 6:20:11 AM

vintech82 said:
I somehow have managed enough cash and I am going all out for a 670 gtx with the same psu. After all this discussion, I believe that yes there is a very small chance that it may not work with my gpu but the chance of its frying the components is extremely low. Any opinions?


The 670 will draw more the the 660 Ti i believe
a c 109 U Graphics card
a c 111 ) Power supply
September 26, 2012 6:55:08 AM

Wouldn't trust the CM PSU.
September 26, 2012 7:06:08 AM

amuffin said:
Wouldn't trust the CM PSU.


The PSU works with my ati 6870 which has the TDP of 151 watts and it was able to handle a mild overclock on 6870 before. The TDP of 670 gtx is 171 watt which is not very high and I dont have any major overclock in my system and i will not overclock 670 gtx for another 10 months after which I am planning to buy ivy bridge or some newer setup. The only reason I have switched to 670 gtx is because its almost a top end card right now and will still be going strong in an year or so after my upgrade. Secretly, I am slightly scared about the unpredictability of the situation but some how a few repliers here have given me enough confidence to believe that it shall be fine.
!